Preserving LFC Spirit

[reddebs]

As a lifelong Liverpool fan for nearly 40 years I, along with many others on this forum, have had the privilege and despair of experiencing the many highs and lows of our Club during this time. 

As a relatively new member of the forum I am saddened that there are still people who don't appear to understand or care about the disgust we should all feel about certain media outlets concerning Hillsborough.  And it's not just on the forum as I have experienced the same apathy at work.

Like many of us I have been obsessed with the Xabi Alonso fiasco all summer but people are still posting articles from suspect newspapers/websites or quoting journalists that they shouldn't even be reading let alone posting and then they get into a slanging match with other members when their posts source is shot down in flames. 

At work in South Yorkshire, Liverpool fans outnumber all other teams by about 10/1 which is fantastic.  They have various shirts, player pictures etc on their PCs yet on the 20th Anniversary, while I was in Club colours with black armband hardly any of them even knew it was the anniversary, in fact the only person I got a hug of condolance from was a Spurs fan.  To add insult to injury many of them also buy/read that most hated of news rags (I'm not even going to type it's name) on a daily basis.

I'm probably rambling here and I'm not even sure if this thread should be in The Kop section (mods feel free to move this if preferred) but surely all fans should be aware of the hurt they inflict on others by not understanding the importance of this issue.  There is enough information in the Forum rules and in the Hillsborough section that people should respect this and if they have broken the rules and it's brought to their attention by other members it should be accepted, preferably with an apology.

Maybe it's an age thing on my part and conflict/arguments are accepted in modern day life but come on people show some respect for the fallen, as they, nor their families should ever be forgotten.

Rant over!






 

[Ross]

To be honest, I think the forum does extremely well on picking up on bad use of sources etc.

You've got to understand that some people may not be aware of the terrible events, for example if they are very young or are situated in a foreign country and therefore I personally think it would be more beneficial to educate those who don't rather than be angry at them.

I can understand your frustration with this but at the same time it's important to understand that some people are generally just not aware.

You are right though about the information, there is plenty to read and if you are a member on here then there's not really much of an excuse to be honest.

[reddebs]

I agree the forum does do a good job in controlling the sources of articles posted, it's the arguments that follow when a member picks up on it that upsets me.  They should swallow their pride and accept they were wrong.

As for educating the uninformed I do try at work but unfortunately that particular rag is the most popular round here and I guess that's due to it being a very strong ex mining community.  They are genuinely surprised when I explain the awful lies that they printed and their subsequent refusal to retract them but they still won't change.

As for not being old enough to remember or not being from England I accept they probably don't understand but if they know the good bits of our history ie. trophy's/honours won they should know the bad bits, that's what relationships are about.  You take the good and the bad and respect/support both, equally.

[dunlop liddell shankly]

I agree the forum does do a good job in controlling the sources of articles posted, it's the arguments that follow when a member picks up on it that upsets me.  They should swallow their pride and accept they were wrong.

I think generally anybody who believes it is right to use information from certain "newspapers" are shot down quite quickly. I remember somebody saying they still read it just to see the rag's twist on current events at Liverpool. That particular poster was quickly told they were in the wrong, although they did try and defend themselves. People will always defend themselves in whatever they do in any walk of life, so any argument that follows is more human nature than anything. Although I do agree after having why, most, Liverpool fans don't trust the rag explained to them they should admit they're wrong. But again, human nature, makes it difficult to admit any wrong doing.

As for educating the uninformed I do try at work but unfortunately that particular rag is the most popular round here and I guess that's due to it being a very strong ex mining community.  They are genuinely surprised when I explain the awful lies that they printed and their subsequent refusal to retract them but they still won't change.

That's nothing new though. Even in Liverpool the rag is still bought by Liverpool fans. Some people still believe it's the best paper for sport, gossip and knockers so therefore continue to buy it. Again this is another issue on human nature. Some believe there's no wrong in buying it so will continue to do so and dig their heels in even more when they're told it's wrong. But as long as we have fans like you trying to educate others then there's always hope, if you can convince one person to stop buying it then all your words have been worthwhile and they will then pass it on to the next generation who'll inform others and it's an ongoing process. One day in the future the rag will not be sold at all because everybody has realised it's a pack of lies. So again, continue to try and inform others, even if it doesn't sink in with them continue telling them.

As for not being old enough to remember or not being from England I accept they probably don't understand but if they know the good bits of our history ie. trophy's/honours won they should know the bad bits, that's what relationships are about.  You take the good and the bad and respect/support both, equally.

I think that's a fair assessment of it.

I appreciate not everybody will know the ins and outs or understand how strong the feeling towards the rag is but you can't go on a single site dedicated to Liverpool without some mention of the events of 89. So it is there for Liverpool fans from far a field. There really isn't an excuse to not know something about it and on this forum we have a board dedicated to the whole Hillsborough issue as well as asking people not to post from certain papers is in the rules. I don't think there's any reason why people shouldn't have some understanding of the disaster and it's knock on effects.

[stuey]

I agree the forum does do a good job in controlling the sources of articles posted, it's the arguments that follow when a member picks up on it that upsets me.  They should swallow their pride and accept they were wrong.

As for educating the uninformed I do try at work but unfortunately that particular rag is the most popular round here and I guess that's due to it being a very strong ex mining community.  They are genuinely surprised when I explain the awful lies that they printed and their subsequent refusal to retract them but they still won't change.

As for not being old enough to remember or not being from England I accept they probably don't understand but if they know the good bits of our history ie. trophy's/honours won they should know the bad bits, that's what relationships are about.  You take the good and the bad and respect/support both, equally.

Good post Reddebs - I would have thought the very fact that you are in an ex mining community was enough to put a blanket ban on the sewer publication we speak of. Being an ex miner myself as was my father I well remember the miners strike and the lies and evil headlines that they put out every day it was a carbon copy of the Hillsborough coverage where they systematically discredited everything that did not bow and grovel to the power mad Thatcherite establishment and they're evil knew no bounds.

[reddebs]

That's nothing new though. Even in Liverpool the rag is still bought by Liverpool fans. Some people still believe it's the best paper for sport, gossip and knockers so therefore continue to buy it. Again this is another issue on human nature. Some believe there's no wrong in buying it so will continue to do so and dig their heels in even more when they're told it's wrong. But as long as we have fans like you trying to educate others then there's always hope, if you can convince one person to stop buying it then all your words have been worthwhile and they will then pass it on to the next generation who'll inform others and it's an ongoing process. One day in the future the rag will not be sold at all because everybody has realised it's a pack of lies. So again, continue to try and inform others, even if it doesn't sink in with them continue telling them.

I have stopped my partner buying it, though he isn't a Liverpool fan he does respect my wishes and the reasons behind it. 

My kids who are Sheffield Wednesday fans wouldn't buy or read it either now.  They were only babies in '89 and when we moved to Sheffield in the early '90's and they started following Wednesday they were surprised when I couldn't bring myself to go to the ground until I explained what happened.   

[JoeyLFC]

You've got to understand that some people may not be aware of the terrible events, for example if they are very young or are situated in a foreign country and therefore I personally think it would be more beneficial to educate those who don't rather than be angry at them.

I don't think that's right. I am 17, wasn't born at the time, and have lived in Australian my whole life. I haven't been to the UK yet alone Liverpool and know all about this.

[redsonfire]

To be honest, I think the forum does extremely well on picking up on bad use of sources etc.

You've got to understand that some people may not be aware of the terrible events, for example if they are very young or are situated in a foreign country and therefore I personally think it would be more beneficial to educate those who don't rather than be angry at them.

I can understand your frustration with this but at the same time it's important to understand that some people are generally just not aware.

You are right though about the information, there is plenty to read and if you are a member on here then there's not really much of an excuse to be honest.

Honestly I am 14, live in Singapore and I know more or less everything about it, the events of Hillsborough and so on. It is a very sad day in Liverpool's history and we must remember the 96. Anyone who doesnt know it, honestly I do not consider them as Liverpool fans even if they proclaim to be one. As Liverpool fans they must have heard about it, it has been in the news every year for 20 years and if they don't then there must be something wrong with them.

Although some people may not know about it theres no excuses for it. Information is readily available everyday and its probably a requirement to know Hillsborough alright. As for young I accept the reason, they might not understand the signifiance behind it. But for fans who are in a foreign country, I will still expect them to know full well about the matter.

[stuey]

Although some people may not know about it theres no excuses for it. Information is readily available everyday and its probably a requirement to know Hillsborough alright. As for young I accept the reason, they might not understand the signifiance behind it. But for fans who are in a foreign country, I will still expect them to know full well about the matter.

This is part of the history of LFC and anybody who claims to support the club in any capacity should be aware of this tragedy and its implications.

[JoeyLFC]

This is part of the history of LFC and anybody who claims to support the club in any capacity should be aware of this tragedy and its implications.

Trust me when I tell you, alot of people wouldn't know about it. some people support the club when asked, know the players, but nothing past that. I am sure if I asked all the people I know who follow Liverpool, that not one would know about Hillsborough but me. That said, alot of them bag the f**k through the club, benitez, our players and everything, even though they 'support' us.... yeh, I don't know how they can be called fans really, but they say they are.

[dunlop liddell shankly]

I have stopped my partner buying it, though he isn't a Liverpool fan he does respect my wishes and the reasons behind it. 

My kids who are Sheffield Wednesday fans wouldn't buy or read it either now.  They were only babies in '89 and when we moved to Sheffield in the early '90's and they started following Wednesday they were surprised when I couldn't bring myself to go to the ground until I explained what happened.   

Well then your words have been worthwhile. You've at least stopped a handful of people from buying it and they are now able to pass the message on. So it's been a worthwhile cause and will continue to be so as long as we have people passing the message on from generation to generation.