Author Topic: Financial Fair Play Regulations  (Read 9840 times)

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bad boy bubby Offline
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Re: Financial Fair Play Regulations
Reply #180 : September 27, 2014, 08:47:23 AM »
I find it hard to believe we would have breached FFP.

I would find it odd too...

... Considering we got an extra bump of Premier League money, failed to buy anyone in January and did little business last summer I would be amazed.


Have to agree lads. Maybe I'm trusting FSG too much here but...

If this were true it would be a massive wake up call to the "FSG might not know about football but they do know about business & finance" Brigade.  ;D

« Last Edit: September 27, 2014, 09:57:21 AM by bad boy bubby »
"a summer window which brought in three young but significantly talented starters in Joe Allen, Nuri Sahin and Fabio Borini as well as two exciting young potential stars of the future Samed Yesil and Oussama Assaidi could hardly be deemed a failure"

racerx34 Offline
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Re: Financial Fair Play Regulations
Reply #181 : September 29, 2014, 11:13:32 AM »
Have Liverpool FC breached UEFA Financial Fair Play Rules?
NewsSep 25, 2014
With reports emerging that Liverpool could have breached the UEFA Financial Fair Play rules, Gunnar Lemmermann holds a conversation with his alter ego TheSpecialGunn over what is behind those reports.


LIVERPOOL, ENGLAND - Sunday, November 7, 2010: Liverpool's owner John W. Henry during the Premiership match against Chelsea at Anfield. (Photo by David Rawcliffe/Propaganda)

First of all I have to say that I am certainly no expert and the rules of FFP aren’t easily understood. But bear with me here. I try not to go too much into detail and leave out certain parts because they won’t affect Liverpool FC.

What is FFP and why is it reported that it might affect LFC?

Most people refer to Financial Fair Play (FFP) when they mean UEFA’s requirement for clubs to “break even”. But the rule book for UEFA’s FFP is 90 pages long and includes much more. It ensures that clubs keep up with their taxes, pay their players wages on time and their transfer fees.

However for most Premier League clubs the “break even” requirements are the main concern.

I strongly advise you to watch this video to get a better insight on what FFP is about.


UEFA Financial Fair Play rules (6mins)

What does this mean for Liverpool’s 2014/15 Champions League campaign?

In short: Nothing. As seen in the video above the monitoring period for this years Champions League campaign are the seasons 2011/12, 2012/13 and 2013/14. Because Liverpool didn’t play in the Champions League last season it wasn’t required from them to submit their accounts and there can be no punishment this season. Affected by sanctions (if any) will be the 2015/16 UEFA football season.

Sound. So have we breached the rules in a way that it could affect next seasons Champions League campaign if we qualify?

We have to reach out a bit more for this. In March 2014 Liverpool released their club accounts. It was showing a combined loss of over £90m for the 2011/12 and 2012/13 season. (More details: The Telegraph)

 
This figure is way above the by UEFA permitted loss over two seasons (£37m). If Liverpool would’ve played in the Champions League last the club would’ve certainly failed the FFP “break even” test and would have received a sanction.

Hold on a minute. We made a loss of £90m over two seasons when we were allowed a loss of £37m. But the monitoring period interesting for us includes the 2013/14 as well. This doesn’t look good for us does it?

Here’s where it gets complicated. There are four factors that all come to our “rescue”:

The £50m loss announced for the 2012/13 season include a number of one-off costs that are unlikely to be repeated in the near future.
By including the 2013/14 season, LFC can include the new increased TV deal (£97.5m – previously: £54.8m – increase: £42.7m)
Certain types of expenditure are allowed to be excluded.
High wage bill during 2011/12 season which can partly be excluded as well.
For example: The 2012/13 accounts include £10.7m for player impairment – basically paying up some player contracts.

This generated a one-off hit but will reduce wage cost and the gradual write off on transfer fees in future accounts.

The accounts for 2013/14 season will include an additional £25m of income relating to the new BT Premier League TV deal (More details: The Guardian). This extra revenue will continue at this level for three seasons and will certainly help to stay within FFP limits. Liverpool might even report a small profit for the 2013/14 season.

Got it. You said certain types of expenditure can be excluded. Such as what?

UEFA are very keen to develop the game and don’t want the FFP rules to hold back clubs from investing and developing. Clubs can therefore exclude costs for infrastructure development and youth development costs. This helps Liverpool by almost £30m over the three year monitoring period.

And there is more: The FFP rules contain an exclusion that allows deduction of player wages during the 2011/12 season if the player was signed before June 2010. This exclusion only comes to fruition if certain very complicated criteria are met. One of them is a reducing trend in losses over the 2012/13 and 2013/14 season.  Liverpool will be able to use this rule to exclude at least £50m.

Any chance you could put all this into an overview of things?

1. Projected loss for 2011/12, 12/13 and 13/14 seasons: £83m

2. Exclusions:

Youth and Community costs: £18.9m
Depreciation: £9.6m
Wage exclusion (as explained above): £50m
Total exclusions: £78.5m

3. Readjusted loss total: £4.5m

(Source: FinancialFairPlay.co.uk)

Liverpool are therefore set to pass Financial Fair Play without receiving any sanctions. Plus the additional £25m-50m Champions League revenue will help the club to comply with the FFP rules in the coming years.

LINK


xSkyline Offline
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Re: Financial Fair Play Regulations
Reply #182 : February 26, 2015, 03:24:51 PM »
We will learn tomorrow whether or not we have breached and FFP rules. Looks as though we haven't:

@martynziegler  13 mins
Liverpool expected to be cleared of any FFP rule breaches tomorrow and Hull to get a small fine (100,000-200,000 euro). Link to follow

harrydunn08 Offline
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Re: Financial Fair Play Regulations
Reply #183 : February 26, 2015, 03:40:14 PM »
Just read an article about FFP and the possibility that it will be deemed illegal as it infringes on companies rights to invest money to help grow their brand name. Here is the link for anyone interested:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/financial-fair-play-under-threat-brussels-court-case-could-potentially-lead-to-rules-being-scrapped-10070581.html

Personally, I hope FFP is allowed to remain in place, and that UEFA will actually hold clubs in breach accountable. I hope FFP can help put an end to sugar daddies like Abramovic and Sheikh Mansour buying trophies for their little play things.... The amount of money being thrown around by these billionaire owners is ruining the integrity of the game....

insideanfield Offline
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Re: Financial Fair Play Regulations
Reply #184 : February 26, 2015, 04:56:01 PM »
It looks like we will receive a small fine (under £200k) as our loss was mainly due to the implementation of planning costs for the works due to be carried out at Anfield and scrapping a loss of almost £50m which was left from the previous owners after they failed to deliver their new stadium.

After this small fine is paid, I believe we will start from scratch. So taking into account annual sponsor money and sums received for finishing in the top 4 of the league (if we do that is) we should be looking at a sum of around £40m for new signings/wages (plus whatever we bring in from player sales).

bad boy bubby Offline
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Re: Financial Fair Play Regulations
Reply #185 : February 27, 2015, 08:50:41 AM »
Personally, I hope FFP is allowed to remain in place, and that UEFA will actually hold clubs in breach accountable. I hope FFP can help put an end to sugar daddies like Abramovic and Sheikh Mansour buying trophies for their little play things.... The amount of money being thrown around by these billionaire owners is ruining the integrity of the game....
:-\

Aye mate...

Much better that the original 'old money', the big clubs (with their new owners  ;)); the Man Utds, Arsenals and Liverpools [pretending, of course, that Chelsea weren't already a wealthy club] buy their trophies the fair way.   :lmao:

You know... the way they always did (because they were richer and bigger than everyone else) before these nouveau rich, upstarts brought their new 'new money'; their own money into the game. How dare they?

"Integrity"?  You're having a laugh.

There's f**k all FAIR about FFP. It's a convenient cloak for carpetbaggers to hide behind - nothing else.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2015, 09:06:52 AM by bad boy bubby »
"a summer window which brought in three young but significantly talented starters in Joe Allen, Nuri Sahin and Fabio Borini as well as two exciting young potential stars of the future Samed Yesil and Oussama Assaidi could hardly be deemed a failure"

vulcan_red Offline
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Re: Financial Fair Play Regulations
Reply #186 : February 27, 2015, 09:15:19 AM »
FFP oh FFS. Chelsea and Man City receive unnatural advantage and now we have to play fair. Even now chelsea get sponsored by Yokohama Rubber for 200 million in shirt deal. Yokohama who have absolutely no dealings with Millhouse LLC, Abramovich's PE firm... C'mon

vulcan_red Offline
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Re: Financial Fair Play Regulations
Reply #187 : February 27, 2015, 09:54:02 AM »
:-\

Aye mate...

Much better that the original 'old money', the big clubs (with their new owners  ;)); the Man Utds, Arsenals and Liverpools [pretending, of course, that Chelsea weren't already a wealthy club] buy their trophies the fair way.   :lmao:

You know... the way they always did (because they were richer and bigger than everyone else) before these nouveau rich, upstarts brought their new 'new money'; their own money into the game. How dare they?

"Integrity"?  You're having a laugh.

There's f**k all FAIR about FFP. It's a convenient cloak for carpetbaggers to hide behind - nothing else.

And I agree with this too. It's not just chelsea and city FFP is a joke

racerx34 Offline
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Re: Financial Fair Play Regulations
Reply #188 : February 27, 2015, 10:54:14 AM »
They're a joke.

Look at Chelsea stockpiling young players and then using the money from them to mask financial doping.
Making a profit because they hoovered up players and then boosting their transfers in the first team.

Idiotic rules.

bad boy bubby Offline
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Re: Financial Fair Play Regulations
Reply #189 : February 28, 2015, 09:08:29 AM »
They're a joke.

Look at Chelsea stockpiling young players and then using the money from them to mask financial doping.

I get where you're coming from racer but remember, when we "look at Chelsea" (or anyone else, for that matter), we tend to miss looking elsewhere and maybe that's the reason we are encouraged to "look at Chelsea. "Look over there - a distraction!"

Take Kronke's Arsenal or the Glazer's Man Utd (bit of a theme  ;)), for e.g. - when everybody is busy looking at their "noisy neighbours" [Chelsea & City], they forget who the biggest beneficiaries from FFP really are.

The biggest beneficiaries aren't the West Ham, Swansea, Stoke or Leicester's of this world; clubs who will never be able to compete, with the big boys, if they are only allowed to spend what they make. What is fair about a system which actively promotes a two, or three-tier structure?

What, exactly, is different between Chelsea being able to spend more than Arsenal, City being able to spend more than Utd (pre FFP) and Arsenal, Man Utd or Liverpool being able to spend more than Swansea or West Ham (post FFP)?  :confused-smiley-013:

Be under no illusions that there were ulterior, self-serving, motives behind the clamour for the 'spend only what you earn' element of Financial Fair Play and being "Fair" wasn't one of them. Sign up to FFP and you [the owner] will, never again, be under any pressure to spend your own money; eat into your own profits... even if you have the money to compete with anyone.  ;)

If you are 'lucky' enough to have bought into [own] a big club, with huge revenue potential, before FFP; you can't go wrong. FFP is a Godsend for an ownership who don't want to invest money (other than the purchase price) but do want to sit back and watch the profit-margin grow...

Anyone who believes, for one minute, that Mr. John and Fenway Sports Group would have bought Liverpool without the passage of FFP is delusional or daft. These people don't give a flying f**k about what's fair.

Want to be fair; really fair? Then make it that a club can only spend the same amount as the lowest common denominator.

Well... either that or... drop the lie and facade that we signed up because we want to be "fair". >:D
« Last Edit: February 28, 2015, 09:30:36 AM by bad boy bubby »
"a summer window which brought in three young but significantly talented starters in Joe Allen, Nuri Sahin and Fabio Borini as well as two exciting young potential stars of the future Samed Yesil and Oussama Assaidi could hardly be deemed a failure"

AmericanPlant Offline
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Re: Financial Fair Play Regulations
Reply #190 : February 28, 2015, 11:17:06 AM »
I get where you're coming from racer but remember, when we "look at Chelsea" (or anyone else, for that matter), we tend to miss looking elsewhere and maybe that's the reason we are encouraged to "look at Chelsea. "Look over there - a distraction!"

Take Kronke's Arsenal or the Glazer's Man Utd (bit of a theme  ;)), for e.g. - when everybody is busy looking at their "noisy neighbours" [Chelsea & City], they forget who the biggest beneficiaries from FFP really are.

The biggest beneficiaries aren't the West Ham, Swansea, Stoke or Leicester's of this world; clubs who will never be able to compete, with the big boys, if they are only allowed to spend what they make. What is fair about a system which actively promotes a two, or three-tier structure?

What, exactly, is different between Chelsea being able to spend more than Arsenal, City being able to spend more than Utd (pre FFP) and Arsenal, Man Utd or Liverpool being able to spend more than Swansea or West Ham (post FFP)?  :confused-smiley-013:

Be under no illusions that there were ulterior, self-serving, motives behind the clamour for the 'spend only what you earn' element of Financial Fair Play and being "Fair" wasn't one of them. Sign up to FFP and you [the owner] will, never again, be under any pressure to spend your own money; eat into your own profits... even if you have the money to compete with anyone.  ;)

If you are 'lucky' enough to have bought into [own] a big club, with huge revenue potential, before FFP; you can't go wrong. FFP is a Godsend for an ownership who don't want to invest money (other than the purchase price) but do want to sit back and watch the profit-margin grow...

Anyone who believes, for one minute, that Mr. John and Fenway Sports Group would have bought Liverpool without the passage of FFP is delusional or daft. These people don't give a flying f**k about what's fair.

Want to be fair; really fair? Then make it that a club can only spend the same amount as the lowest common denominator.

Well... either that or... drop the lie and facade that we signed up because we want to be "fair". >:D

Its only Financial FAIR PLay for the parasites. In other words its a license to profiteer.

What about fair play for the fans? Pratini doesnt give a sh*t.

Scamway should have repaired the club in the 1st yr post takeover. Instead, they've freewheeled on tax losses from the previous regime. For instance, 50m tax loss on some shitty pictures drawn by Hicks's croneys.

Just like the previous scum, but with the debt hidden further up the chain.

The next problem is that our piss poor attitude to competing will translate into lower marketability worldwide.
What kid outside Lpool wants to become a fan of a club that keeps selling its stars, never wins a big tropy, and hardly has any top players on its books. This will eat away at LFC like a disease as the top Ldon and Manc teams invest for the future.

OUr piss poor net spend alone means we're not even MAINTAINING the squad. The wage slashes AND income growth mean we are less and less likely to compete for top silverware in the futures.

Its pure short term greed.
Financial "Fair" Play is just Financial Greed PLay.
Our cheapest season tickets= FIVE TIMES the price of R Madrid's cheapest

Yet WE are the selling club.Selling Suarez,Torres etc+buying Balojelly
A PISSTAKE!

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/jan/17/football-ticket-prices-premier-league-europe