Author Topic: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC  (Read 466088 times)

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Paisleydalglish Offline
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Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
Reply #2700 : February 14, 2012, 07:45:20 PM »
No offence taken but would rather people debate the content of my posts rather than this general you are only saying it because your negative. My main points about Fsg were lack of investment in the playing side the lack of news on the stadium the priority to cut costs and this current debacle with the Suarez situation. Debate them points tell me why im wrong there.

No one can debate the points because as yet its too early to tell Corb, As i said before can we really judge them on 3 transfer windows? 2 being in January. Last summer there was a massive turn over in players, and we needed to give the squad some depth and solidity to move forward. Money was available last month we were told so we cant critise them for it not being spent.

Ive had my say over the last couple of days that i have been very disapointed the way that they have handled the Suarez case, in my opinion very poorly, and them i hold the most to blame for the way the club handled it, but turn back the clock and im convinced that they would handle it differently, everyone would, but you learn from mistakes and im happy to forget it, get my tin hat on and defend the club as we should.

In terms off the stadium i think they are doing the right thing in terms of researching it correctly before they make any commitments either way..

The stadium is a massive issue for this club going forward and one that the City owners didnt have to consider when they brought them, all efforts could be based on the team..

All in all i just think its too early to say we cant be successful with them or that they are the wrong owners, i think they need at least one more summer window before we can judge that and i personally expect something regarding the stadium by around the same time.. One way or the other.

Its okay posing the questions and rightly so sometimes you need someone to do that but i just think its too early to have your mind fully made up one way or the other. Im certainly not saying we have struck gold and everything is rosy either but i am grateful for them buying us and wiping the dept to start with and im happy with the job they have done so far. The only critism i have is their part in the Suarez saga.

I also think they need to have someone based over here.. At all times.

stuey Offline
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Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
Reply #2701 : February 14, 2012, 07:54:57 PM »
I still think they borrowed the money to buy Liverpool
The financial world is based on credit in one way or another and it's not beyond the realms of possibility that maybe an asset was used in a security sense to free up some monies to facilitate the deal.
Not as H&G did when they used LFC as a surity for their nefarius dealings, indeed the first doubt and enquiries into their conduct caused their whole commercial sandcastle to blow away.

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Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
Reply #2702 : February 14, 2012, 08:01:34 PM »
Out of interest mate what are you basing that on?
I looked at how much they had to start with how much debt they have paid off, I also took into account they never paid the share holder a dividend and they have never devalue the shares, I also believe John Henry is far to good a businessman to have £218 million sitting in a bank account

 Most of the information came from Forbes magazine and the times

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Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
Reply #2703 : February 14, 2012, 08:04:12 PM »
The financial world is based on credit in one way or another and it's not beyond the realms of possibility that maybe an asset was used in a security sense to free up some monies to facilitate the deal.
Not as H&G did when they used LFC as a surity for their nefarius dealings, indeed the first doubt and enquiries into their conduct caused their whole commercial sandcastle to blow away.
John Henry is a very good businessman and I am sure FSG are more than able to cope with there debts

Paisleydalglish Offline
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Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
Reply #2704 : February 14, 2012, 08:14:37 PM »
I looked at how much they had to start with how much debt they have paid off, I also took into account they never paid the share holder a dividend and they have never devalue the shares, I also believe John Henry is far to good a businessman to have £218 million sitting in a bank account

 Most of the information came from Forbes magazine and the times

I'm sure he hasn't.

But there is a difference between that and putting the debt into the club? The club isn't the collateral?

stuey Offline
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Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
Reply #2705 : February 14, 2012, 08:37:08 PM »
John Henry is a very good businessman and I am sure FSG are more than able to cope with there debts
Without doubt mate.

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Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
Reply #2706 : February 14, 2012, 10:05:59 PM »
No offence taken but would rather people debate the content of my posts rather than this general you are only saying it because your negative. My main points about Fsg were lack of investment in the playing side the lack of news on the stadium the priority to cut costs and this current debacle with the Suarez situation. Debate them points tell me why im wrong there.

I'm not going to say wether you are right or wrong but will give my opinion on your points.

1. Lack of investment in January.

Obviously there was no investment in the first team in the last transfer window but that does not necessarily mean that we weren't able to invest. There is a big difference here.

Ayre was quoted as saying money was there if needed and I'm sure Kenny said he was happy with what he had.

If there was money to spend and the manager didn't feel we needed to spend it is it still the owners fault?

Now I feel you are pissed off, and you have form here, that we weren't bidding all round on 'marquee' signings and also if we did spend big money on players you didn't like you would still be unhappy.

2. Stadium

I'm not sure that a lack of news is a bad thing and would like to know why you feel it is.

From day one FSG said they would explore all possibilities before making any decision on a stadium and don't think anything has changed here. I'd rather they exhausted all avenues, especially if it resulted in us staying at Anfield before spending millions an any new stadium.

If carefull planning and getting the decision right is now a bad thing then you and I have very differing views on how things should be done.

3. Cutting costs.

I'll presume you mean getting the wage bill down here as I don't really see any other area where they have cut costs as I haven't heard about any other cost cutting exercises in the club. If anything we are still investing in the academy and have also sealed a massive deal with Warrior and also a few other sponsorship deals ie Stanley.

On the cost cutting of the wage bill again I don't see how slashing the wage bill by getting rid of players who barely featured or who contributed little is a bad thing.

Why slate FSG for cutting the wage bill by getting rid of players who weren't going to bring us success?

4.Suarez

I have always backed Luis in this and like most of us feel he and the club have been treated badly to say the least.

The decision was made to accept the ban and move on where I personally thought that the club should have fought the decision but they obviously thought that it was an unwinnable case as the FA choose to believe Evra over Luis.

It looks that we as a club decided to back Luis privately but take the ban and move on.

After Saturday and the apparent forced apology I don't see it as clear cut as some on here as I think that it is entirely possible that Kenny didn't like seeing how he was portrayed in his interview after the game and after speaking to Ayre decided he would apologise along with Luis. It has also been reported that all the movement on the apology came from Liverpool without any pressure from FSG.

They may well have got involved to protect their investment but, again I might be alone here, I don't necessarily see that as a negative as their investment is this club and if their investment is secure and successful as a business it can only help us on the football side of things.

I said yesterday that we have massive pride in our club and how we go about our business and I just have a feeling that FSG have a similar perspective albeit on a more business focused point of view.

The main problem I have with the majority of your posts over the last few months in particular is the sheer negativity.

You want it all and you want it now.

You always want transfers but complain if they are not players you like or rate.

You complain about FSG yet they appointed the man the vast majority of us wanted and gave him the money to buy the players he wanted, the only problem here is they were players you didn't want. They have promised to explore the possibility of staying at Anfield which again the vast majority of us wanted and they appear to be running the club on stable foundations.

What exactly do you want from them?

« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 10:17:17 PM by srslfc »

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Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
Reply #2707 : February 14, 2012, 10:32:23 PM »
At a football club, there's a holy trinity - the players, the manager and the supporters - Shanks words still very relevant today however perhaps in the modern world it might be rephrased a bit.

At a football club, there's a holy trinity - the players, the Club (Owners/Employees/Managers) and the supporters.


I don't know if we are going to reach the highest ladders of success with FSG or with Kenny or with the Players we now have or will have someday.

My part of the Holy Trinity is to support to the best of my ability the Club and the Players through good times and like recently difficult times. In a way its a lot like a marriage and sometimes marriages are not easy and there are as many tribulations as there are triumphs.

That does not mean I don't have the right to question what is happening or even disagree with it, but there comes a point when making blanket statements about an ownership and managers is in direct conflict with with my part of being part of the trinity.

Questioning how much was spent in a transfer window is something that can be debated, opined on and yes even criticized. Just like a married couple might disagree on how to spend the weekly earnings or invest for they're future. Discussion should be encouraged so all parties know what is going on.

Saying something like "Look at Chelsea's owners and how I would like them". To me is total bullshite it's akin to being married then looking at your neighbors wife who may be a bit hotter so in your mind she would make a better wife than the one your married to.

Are there exceptions to the Holy Trinity

Yup if you catch your wife cheating on you then fck it all bets are off. That is what Purslow did, that is what H&G were doing so of course when it is fact that the club has been purposely wronged then of course they broke the Trinity not me.

I think even to an extent when RH came on to manage people tried their best to support up to the point where the man's words and actions made it clear that a mutual divorce occur. Same with Torres, while we loved him and was part of the trinity like few other players when he cheated on us all bets were off; quite honestly I have more respect for Christian Poulson than I do for Judas, while not up to the task he never ever bitched, moaned or disrespected the Kit that he wore.


FSG/Kenny/Ayre/Suarez all had they're parts in screwing the pooch on this racism issue, there is plenty of humble pie to dish out; all that being said neither the owners, nor Ayre or Kenny have done anything on the pitch or off to justify the blanket statements being made of them or suggest that they have broken their part of the Trinity.

So yeah I get pissed when I see others calling for Rafa and to move Kenny to an ambassador role.
I get pissed when I see our owners being compared to Chelsea or City's when they never once promised or pretended to be something that they are not.
And yeah I get pissed when we don't give a reasonable amount of time and patience with our own players before we are trashing them.


The arguments above are not practical, supportive or constructive, they bring nothing to the table and are nothing more than a Christmas list that a child would give sitting on St. Nicks lap at the mall. We can be critical but at the same time we can support and be constructive but instead we turn on each other and the trinity just for the sake of argument and that in my mind is counterproductive to everything we should be doing.

So you know I am a relative newbie to all of this and yeah its a bit different than sports here in America, but there are parallels in sports no matter the continent that is resides.

I see as much evidence with our "supporters"  breaking Liverpool's Holy Trinity as I do from either one of the other two members of the union.

Maybe I missed something in the books, articles and videos I have watched while trying to learn the history of this club, perhaps I need to go read them all over again because a lot of what I see does not add up to what its supposed to.

But alright, I won't say any more if that's what you want. - Federer 08/13/2014 11:05 pm GMT

stuey Offline
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Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
Reply #2708 : February 14, 2012, 10:55:22 PM »
Very good analogy mate with Trinities, one of the factors you mention ie the supporters have always been the side's fiercest critics and apart from the wums and bullshitters this is one case where some positivity can be gleaned from apparent negativity.
Long before the wonders of the internet there was always an undercurrent of informed opinion at Anfield which was a living entity and developed as a serial would, eventually the gossip would be confirmed.
Unfortunately the aforementioned wums etc get too much limelight on the internet and their bullshit get's a little more credence than it deserves.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 11:16:25 PM by stuey »

corballyred Offline
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Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
Reply #2709 : February 14, 2012, 11:21:25 PM »
Time will tell. Good will only lasts a certain length. In twelve months time if we are still in the same position in relation to spend stadium and cost cutting dont think there will be as many making excuses for them.

stuey Offline
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Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
Reply #2710 : February 14, 2012, 11:31:03 PM »
Time will tell. Good will only lasts a certain length. In twelve months time if we are still in the same position in relation to spend stadium and cost cutting dont think there will be as many making excuses for them.
Of course time will be the judge as time was the judge with the other f**king eejits who brought our club to it's knees, I know who I'd rather see in charge mate.

Joey B Offline
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Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
Reply #2711 : February 14, 2012, 11:31:24 PM »
Time will tell. Good will only lasts a certain length. In twelve months time if we are still in the same position in relation to spend stadium and cost cutting dont think there will be as many making excuses for them.
So So predictable from you mate.When you've finished your "half empty" cup of tea.....

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Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
Reply #2712 : February 14, 2012, 11:37:15 PM »
So So predictable from you mate.When you've finished your "half empty" cup of tea.....

Am i not allowed give an opinion without digs. I gave my reasons for my opinion is it to hard to debate them. I dont buy into we have great owners simple as that read above for my reasons ain't going to repeat them

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Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
Reply #2713 : February 14, 2012, 11:38:45 PM »
So So predictable from you mate.When you've finished your "half empty" cup of tea.....

It almost feels like some people are willing it to happen.
POETRY

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Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
Reply #2714 : February 14, 2012, 11:40:48 PM »
Am i not allowed give an opinion without digs. I gave my reasons for my opinion is it to hard to debate them. I dont buy into we have great owners simple as that read above for my reasons ain't going to repeat them

Plenty of people have debated them, you may disagree, like many do with you.  Why all of a sudden does great come into it.  When it comes to owners, I'll take solid and steady over our club becoming some sugar daddies plaything.
POETRY

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Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
Reply #2715 : February 14, 2012, 11:45:40 PM »
I really love the sugar daddy argument ya id hate our owners buying us Silva and say Mata out of their own money. I ve zero problem people disagreeing with me but what does make me laugh is people saying you only say it because your negative. Really look what ive said nothing but facts there.

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Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
Reply #2716 : February 15, 2012, 12:00:23 AM »
I really love the sugar daddy argument ya id hate our owners buying us Silva and say Mata out of their own money. I ve zero problem people disagreeing with me but what does make me laugh is people saying you only say it because your negative. Really look what ive said nothing but facts there.

Facts you've made extrapolations and guesses from and you look at one side of the argument, the bleakest, on a regular basis.  It's not just one or two that say you focus on the negative side Corb, Other people have interpreted the 'facts', as you put it, in a different way.  So don't make me laugh by trying to play the 'only because' pity me card.

It's nothing personal Corbs, but your posts depress me. You've put your spin on facts, no more no less, others have put a positive spin on them, which probably gets your goat.  So far FSG have done nothing to harbour such huge resentment, especially as you yourself have stated we're still in  a wait and see position.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 12:13:32 AM by Roddenberry »
POETRY

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Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
Reply #2717 : February 15, 2012, 12:08:40 AM »
I have to say from the very beginning I havent seen any concrete financial evidence to suggest NESV have the resources needed to match the investment in Europes biggest sides.

I feel they are really relying on FFP to even up the playing field but I dont personally think that will ever happen with the amount of money involved and corruption in the game.

I have nothing against the owners per say but they bought the club for a snip and imo only massive investment is gonna bring us the PL in the next 5-10 years.

I havent seen a team win the premier league ever that werent huge net spenders so we will be the first to do it without spending big if we do. Arsenal havent had PL titles with tight pursestrings so am struggling to see how we can do it.

Better than H+G for sure but just stable like the moore days imo

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Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
Reply #2718 : February 15, 2012, 12:26:42 AM »
I missed corbally :P

I didn't expect a massive jump this year. Would have been great, but I'm a realistic supporter and I'm not too bothered by a rebuilding process whatsoever. I believe our owners have a plan, and the wheels are in motion. They can't fix everything the previous owners and the Hodge did in three windows.

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Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
Reply #2719 : February 15, 2012, 12:31:35 AM »
It's too early yet to judge FSG. We'll see what they come up with re; the stadium and what investment they put in this summer. If they build a new stadium I'd like to see them show ambition by making it at least a 70,000 seater. It would show they are aiming big for Liverpool.

As regard transfers, the truth is Carroll for £35m has been a disaster but if he had banged in goals this season like a striker of that massive price should do, then we'd be in the top 4 already. It is the signings of Carroll and Downing for a sickening £55m which has really set us back this season because they have been pretty much useless and we have struggled to score the goals that £55m should have got us.

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Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
Reply #2720 : February 15, 2012, 12:35:44 AM »
I really love the sugar daddy argument ya id hate our owners buying us Silva and say Mata out of their own money. I ve zero problem people disagreeing with me but what does make me laugh is people saying you only say it because your negative. Really look what ive said nothing but facts there.


Here goes back to my point Cor they are the owners and judging from the fact that they still own the club they bought 12 years ago and them saying they are her for the long haul suggests to me that that they will be here for quite sometime.

So the closest thing to reality is that 8-10 years from now FSG is still going to own Liverpool F.C., no guarantee of course but we can see it being a real possibility.

If that is true do you mind telling me what hoping for Sheik or a Roman adds to any relevant discussion to this forum?

The reality of:  The multi-billionare owner
                      Rafa becoming manager
                      Spains finest players filling our starting XI
                      Hundreds of millions a year available for transfers

Is in fact: Not an opinion, this is your wet dream Christmas list, that's all it is and wanting Kenny as the Ambassador and trying to bash the owners by saying "Trust me we will never win anything with FSG as owners" are not opinions either they are unsubstantiated statements to justify what you want.

Might as well stick those so called opinions in the Arkles as the Anfieldcat thread has more fact and reality than a wish list that uses digs at the owners/manager to justify it being an opinion.
But alright, I won't say any more if that's what you want. - Federer 08/13/2014 11:05 pm GMT

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Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
Reply #2721 : February 15, 2012, 01:20:24 AM »

It's nothing personal Corbs, but your posts depress me. You've put your spin on facts, no more no less, others have put a positive spin on them, which probably gets your goat.  So far FSG have done nothing to harbour such huge resentment, especially as you yourself have stated we're still in  a wait and see position.


Suffice to say Corb's none of my disagreement with you is personal but yeah your as depressing as fck all.

Whatever you do just make yourself a promise never to volunteer at any type of prevention hotline. You would run them out of customers in a matter of days if not hours.
But alright, I won't say any more if that's what you want. - Federer 08/13/2014 11:05 pm GMT

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Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
Reply #2722 : February 15, 2012, 02:02:06 AM »
I'll start being concerned about player investment if we do little business in the summer.

Big summer of recruitment coming up for us regardless of whether we finish in the top four or not.

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Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
Reply #2723 : February 15, 2012, 02:32:29 AM »
I'll start being concerned about player investment if we do little business in the summer.

Big summer of recruitment coming up for us regardless of whether we finish in the top four or not.

True, it's important FSG put enough money in this summer but it's a massive summer for Kenny and Commoli too because their expensive buys besides Suarez haven't added anything to the team.

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Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
Reply #2724 : February 15, 2012, 03:14:18 AM »
Very good analogy mate with Trinities, one of the factors you mention ie the supporters have always been the side's fiercest critics and apart from the wums and bullshitters this is one case where some positivity can be gleaned from apparent negativity.
Long before the wonders of the internet there was always an undercurrent of informed opinion at Anfield which was a living entity and developed as a serial would, eventually the gossip would be confirmed.
Unfortunately the aforementioned wums etc get too much limelight on the internet and their bullshit get's a little more credence than it deserves.
I don't like the fact we supports know so little when it come to what is happening within LFC

 A few years ago Liverpool supporters were share holders, I would say there was an informed opinion based on real knowledge of what was happening inside the club, we had a voice.

 Now quite honestly I feel a little bit disconnected from the club in a certain way, I think the owners need to show some openness towards the fans let us know what is happening and not by some stage managed interview with a few hand picked questions.

 
   

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Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
Reply #2725 : February 15, 2012, 03:31:39 AM »
I for one am enjoying the 'do our business behind closed doors' deal compared to the 'everyone knows before we do' that we had under the previous regime.
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Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
Reply #2726 : February 15, 2012, 08:27:31 AM »
Corballyred asks us debate his points.

I give my detailed response.

Result?

He ignores it. :f_doh:

Note to self: Don't get into a detailed debate with corballyred as he either isn't able to or just won't respond in similar fashion.

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Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
Reply #2727 : February 15, 2012, 09:13:29 AM »
Time will tell. Good will only lasts a certain length. In twelve months time if we are still in the same position in relation to spend stadium and cost cutting dont think there will be as many making excuses for them.

Thats the point i think most people are making, judge them after a reasonable amount of time, give them another 12 months rather than say its just simply never going to happen.

Right now id rather they have a clear business plan and that takes us forward than promises they cant keep and buying players that threaten the future of the club again.

Give them time Corb.

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Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
Reply #2728 : February 15, 2012, 09:18:29 AM »
Facts we have a net spend of 30 million over 3 transfer windows less than hicks and Gillette first 3 windows.  We cut 30 million off the wage bill last summer. Absolutely no sign of a new stadium sorry if these facts seem negative. Posters can hide behind his negative argument all the want doesn't mean what im saying is wrong just a weak argument to get personal on other posters part. Dont think i made any sweeping comments on you rod or az.  Sick of people debates with me turning personal because people can't debate the points.  Srs the reason i probably havent responded is because ive had to spend most of my time defending myself for having an opinion.

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Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
Reply #2729 : February 15, 2012, 09:22:44 AM »
Facts we have a net spend of 30 million over 3 transfer windows less than hicks and Gillette first 3 windows.  We cut 30 million off the wage bill last summer. Absolutely no sign of a new stadium sorry if these facts seem negative. Posters can hide behind his negative argument all the want doesn't mean what im saying is wrong just a weak argument to get personal on other posters part. Dont think i made any sweeping comments on you rod or az.  Sick of people debates with me turning personal because people can't debate the points.  Srs the reason i probably havent responded is because ive had to spend most of my time defending myself for having an opinion.

Got no problem with your opinion Corb, just think its way too early to make those judgements. H and G may have "spent" more but it wasnt without putting the club in danger. And i presume you have been in on conference calls or board meetings where you know that nothing is being done regarding the stadium? I presume you would prefer another "we will have the spade in the ground in 60 days " rubbish that cant be backed up?

Id rather move forward right and have sensible plans for the stadium rather than make myself popular statements that they cant back up.