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      Liverpool FC Strike Force

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      Rush
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      Liverpool FC Strike Force
      Dec 06, 2011 09:45:33 am
      It seems to be a bone of contention almost every sinlge match so I thought we could do with its own dedicated thread.

      Week in week out questions arise such as

      Can Suarez and Carroll play together up front?
      Should Bellers play up front with Suarez instead?
      Is Carroll good enough?
      Do we play better without Carroll in the side?
      Is Suarez the goal poacher we need?
      Does Suarez fall to the ground too easily or are referees out to get him?
      Who do we go for in the January transfer window?
      What about loaning Carroll out for the remainder of the season so he gets more premiership games under his belt?

      And so on.
      Podge
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      Re: Liverpool FC Strike Force
      Reply #1: Dec 06, 2011 10:36:44 am
      I was talking to an older fan at a fan club meeting for the game last night...he reckons Andy Carroll is exactly like Tony Hately in the 60s...a good player in his own right, but he just doesn't fit in to the Liverpool style of play. Could be an accurate comparison!
      Rush
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      Re: Liverpool FC Strike Force
      Reply #2: Dec 06, 2011 11:03:27 am
      I was talking to an older fan at a fan club meeting for the game last night...he reckons Andy Carroll is exactly like Tony Hately in the 60s...a good player in his own right, but he just doesn't fit in to the Liverpool style of play. Could be an accurate comparison!
      I know what you mean. Some players just don't fit into a certain mode of play, or they need specific types of players aroud them.

      To be fair I think Andy's suffering from three things:

      A lack of games
      A lack of confidence
      Trying too hard in whatever spotlight he gets

      That's why I think he'd benefit from a prolonged stint up front. 6 or 7 games, no questions asked, start to finish.
      corballyred
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      Re: Liverpool FC Strike Force
      Reply #3: Dec 06, 2011 11:05:25 am
      He wouldn't he still will be incapable of playing pass and move football
      waltonl4
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      Re: Liverpool FC Strike Force
      Reply #4: Dec 06, 2011 11:07:12 am
      Whatever way you want to paint it we are as a team not scoring many goals. Our front two have not produced anything like the tally they should have. We have become hard to beat but not hard to stop.I don't know the answer but i think we lack the inspiration of a fit Stevie and if he isnt going to be available we need a player of his stature in the side to drive the team forward
      Rush
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      Re: Liverpool FC Strike Force
      Reply #5: Dec 06, 2011 11:30:45 am
      He wouldn't he still will be incapable of playing pass and move football
      But if that were true, why on earth did KK buy him? If anyone knows the pass and move way, it's the King. And surely he'd seen Carroll play before.
      JD
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      Re: Liverpool FC Strike Force
      Reply #6: Dec 06, 2011 11:49:36 am
      Sadly the problem is not just the forwards.

      Admittedly Carroll (goal every 325 mins) and Suarez (goal every 194 mins) could both be far more prolific for us.

      However, they are being let down big time by the rest of the team not chipping in.

      Stewart Downing, Jordan Henderson, Dirk Kuyt, Lucas Leiva and Charlie Adam have scored two goals from open play between them in the Premier League. 

      That is a totally unacceptable statistic.

      Opposing teams do not have the same level of fear for our supporting cast - restricting our strikers even further.

      You simply cannot be successful as a football team, if you are dependent solely on your forwards to score the vast majority of the teams goals.
      vitez
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      Re: Liverpool FC Strike Force
      Reply #7: Dec 06, 2011 12:04:16 pm
      Can Suarez and Carroll play together up front?

      Yes, but I believe our best setup involves playing with only one main central striker and as such, I'd give the nod to Suarez but that's not to say that in a tridente both couldn't be used together effectively.

      Should Bellers play up front with Suarez instead?

      Not on a regular basis IMO.


      For what exactly?  If you mean to be in our first XI, I'd say not yet but that could easily change if he applies himself.

      Do we play better without Carroll in the side?

      Generally speaking, yes.

      Is Suarez the goal poacher we need?

      I'm not convinced we need a goal poacher but we do need additional attacking options to take some of the weight off Suarez and I think as a result we'll see more goals thus eliminating the need for a goal poacher, as such.

      Does Suarez fall to the ground too easily or are referees out to get him?

      IMHO, the answer to both is yes.

      Who do we go for in the January transfer window?

      If we're talking about strikeforce, someone similar in playstyle to Lisandro Lopez.

      What about loaning Carroll out for the remainder of the season so he gets more premiership games under his belt?

      Massive catch 22, I'd lean towards no.
      Adryan
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      Re: Liverpool FC Strike Force
      Reply #8: Dec 06, 2011 12:38:20 pm
      Sadly the problem is not just the forwards.

      Admittedly Carroll (goal every 325 mins) and Suarez (goal every 194 mins) could both be far more prolific for us.

      However, they are being let down big time by the rest of the team not chipping in.

      Stewart Downing, Jordan Henderson, Dirk Kuyt, Lucas Leiva and Charlie Adam have scored two goals from open play between them in the Premier League. 

      That is a totally unacceptable statistic.

      Opposing teams do not have the same level of fear for our supporting cast - restricting our strikers even further.

      You simply cannot be successful as a football team, if you are dependent solely on your forwards to score the vast majority of the teams goals.


      That's spot on as well. Take a look at the 'Top Scorer Chart' and you will see the problem.



      In the top 33 scorers of the league;

      • Arsenal have got 2 players contributing 18 goals. Maybe it's not alot from midfielders but RvP compensates for that.
      • Manchester City have got 5 players contributing 30 goals.
      • Manchester United have got 2 players contributing 15 goals. Not alot in comparison to the above two but they scrap one nil wins which is all that matters.
      • Chelsea have got 3 players contributing 17 goals. Maybe a few penalties but that's what matters as well whereas we've missed a couple in the league this season.
      • Tottenham have got 4 players contributing 24 goals.
      • Newcastle's Demba Ba has twice the amount of our top scorer

      Our top scorer, Luis Suarez only with 4 goals, sharing with like 10 other guys. Only player who makes the list because our next top scorers are probably Charlie Adam and Andy Carroll with 2 goals each.

      Also utterly pathetic that our biggest win margin is 2 goals.
      waltonl4
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      Re: Liverpool FC Strike Force
      Reply #9: Dec 06, 2011 01:27:32 pm
      you can take personalities out of judging strikers its an easy task goals per game ratio its always been the way to judge a striker and we are failing miserably when John Terry would be our joint top scorer. Are we too cautious we are certainly hard to beat but are we just to tightly wrapped and the shackles need to come of.I would love to know how Kenny sees things is it tactics or is it players??????.Or have we been unlucky in that we seems to be hitting the woodwork every game and if just half of them had gone in we would be in a different place right now.
      If ever we needed Stevie back its right now failing which regardless of postion we need a new talisman in the side.
      Rush
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      Re: Liverpool FC Strike Force
      Reply #10: Dec 06, 2011 02:04:35 pm
      We are surely not still pinning our hopes on a 31 year old Stevie G are we?

      If we are, there's no excuse
      lreland
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      Re: Liverpool FC Strike Force
      Reply #11: Dec 06, 2011 02:20:03 pm
      what about darren bent he can scores goals doing swap deal with aston villa with andy going other way
      vitez
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      Re: Liverpool FC Strike Force
      Reply #12: Dec 06, 2011 02:24:16 pm
      what about darren bent he can scores goals doing swap deal with aston villa with andy going other way

      IMO, it wouldn't be enough of an upgrade considering Carroll still has a lot of unfulfilled potential which could see him become the much better player of the two a few years down the track.  If we're looking for someone right now, I'd prefer to look elsewhere.
      shabbadoo
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      Re: Liverpool FC Strike Force
      Reply #13: Dec 06, 2011 02:30:34 pm
      I would take adebayor tomorrow leading an attacking line up against suarez,he holds the ball well,brings his players into the attack,great areila threat and just an all round quality striker.
      s@int
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      Re: Liverpool FC Strike Force
      Reply #14: Dec 06, 2011 02:37:02 pm
      I think we just need another string to our bow. Get a clinical striker in (most top sides have 4 strikers) and mix and match. Andy could sadly find himself relegated to plan "B" as Crouch did, or maybe he will flourish once the goals are flowing and the weight of expectation has been lifted a little.

      Certainly we are paying a heavy price at the moment for our lack of goals, but I do think we should be expecting more goals from the rest of the team as well.   
      bigmick
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      Re: Liverpool FC Strike Force
      Reply #15: Dec 06, 2011 02:59:21 pm
       Watching it at close quarters last night, one or two things come to mind from an attacking sense.

       Suarez's starting position is often wide, particularly left, very often he has a lot to do when he recieves the ball in order to score. I think it is unlikely that he'll ever be the type of player who score two or three tap-ins for every brilliant goal.

       The partnership of Carroll and Suarez is a total non starter unless one or both change the way they play. At the moment, they're like a pair of two year olds playing together with a bunch of toys. They are in the same room, but they don't interact. Each is trying to do something completely independent of the other, neither complimenting or supplementing his partner.

       Carroll needs balls hit to him from wide areas (I really would like to see him play if we had Gerrard wide right), and he needs someone running off of him if the ball is fed in long on the diagonal. At the moment he gets neither. He doesn't get crosses of quality and consistency delivered in, and he doesn't get anyone playing close enough to benefit form anything he wins when it's hit long. It's almost as if in trying to turn him into a better footballer, we've done it the expense of the stuff we actually bought him for in the first place. He's also lost much of the devil in him, he used to be a physical handful but at the moment he's a big soft baby.

       None of our midfield players are "arrivers" in the box. None of them get box to box or even "up and down", and with the exception of Adam in a good season, it's hard to imagine any of them getting 10 goals in a campaign. As a result, as someone touched on earlier the defenders have little else to worry about other than the strikers.

       We are a little too ponderous when we have it. Too often the play is stilted, too much flatness and not enough fizz. We move the ball but not quickly enough, we don't ping it we stroke it, and there are times when we allow any holes we've begun to create to "heal up" again because we are too slow and lack penetration.

       My suspicion is that much like Carroll funnily enough, Suarez would look a far better player if Gerrard were in the team. Unfortunately, Gerrard would have to play in a completely different position in order to help Suarez, and a similar role to the one he performed so admirably for Torres back in the Spaniards pomp would be the way to go. I've no doubt that together they would make fine footballing music.

       Although Lucas is having a fine season, we must accept as a team that if we are going to play with an out and out holding central midfielder, the other midfielders MUST score goals. To that end, the Downings, Hendersons and Adams' of this world MUST get in the box more often. If that risks us being hit on the counter, then so be it.



       The solution? Well based on yesterdays outing my guess is that for the time being we're going to have to play Suarez on his own up top while available (I think he'll get banned by the FA kangaroo court). We must sit Adam and an other in front of the back four, then play three of Downing/Henderson/Bellamy/Maxi in front with the instruction that they must get ahead of the play, and they must score goals. In fairnes two of their number hit the post last night so there's perhaps been a movement this way in any case. If there isn't there needs to be, and quickly. 
      staffletop
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      Re: Liverpool FC Strike Force
      Reply #16: Dec 06, 2011 02:59:59 pm
      Its a simple fix really, widen the goals by 2 inches each side, then we wont hitting the bloody woodwork.
      Al1892
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      Re: Liverpool FC Strike Force
      Reply #17: Dec 06, 2011 03:42:35 pm
      The sad thing is wev made loads of chances but thefinishing has been so poor i dont feel the tactics have anything to do with it. We are playing well and we played decent last night and created some good chances but our finishing is piss poor. I do think suarez is trying to take on too much he tries to do everything himself.
       
      Liverpool would be 6 pts behind Man City, rather than 15, if all PL woodwork strikes had been goals. A little stat i found. Luck isnt on our side.

      « Last Edit: Dec 06, 2011 03:55:56 pm by Al1892 »
      Rush
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      Re: Liverpool FC Strike Force
      Reply #18: Dec 06, 2011 03:58:44 pm
      Watching it at close quarters last night, one or two things come to mind from an attacking sense.
      You make it sound terribly complicated. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm not saying it isn't complicated either, but when we spent £35 million on Carroll, I didn't think we'd buy so much of a headache.

      Like Sir Bob once said 'If you're in the penalty area and don't know what to do with the ball, put it in the net and we'll discuss the options later.'
      corballyred
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      Re: Liverpool FC Strike Force
      Reply #19: Dec 06, 2011 03:58:47 pm
      It is not about delivery Carroll is not attacking the ball.  Supposedly we bought downing ahead of Mata to provide service for Carroll. The reason Suarez had a starting place left yesterday mick was to facilitate Carroll through the centre. We need to find a partner to Suarez in January or the summer
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Liverpool FC Strike Force
      Reply #20: Dec 06, 2011 04:06:28 pm
      I'd try and get Tevez on loan until the summer, its a win situation for all concerned in my opinion.
      srslfc
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      Re: Liverpool FC Strike Force
      Reply #21: Dec 06, 2011 04:07:00 pm
      what about darren bent he can scores goals doing swap deal with aston villa with andy going other way

      If we want goals there isn't much better in this league that Darren Bent at getting them and even though I'm a fan of his there isn't much else to his game.

      In saying that though do we need a rounded player who contributes to build up, bring others into the gwke or one player just to put the ball in the net?
      corballyred
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      Re: Liverpool FC Strike Force
      Reply #22: Dec 06, 2011 04:11:05 pm
      Your talking about 30 million for darren bent.  Seriously would anyone like to waste that much money on him

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