The Back 5 - Still Not Convinced

I'm not sure about Can mate, but I am sure Henderson can't do the job beside Gerrard.... we have tried it and so have England.

Maybe Henderson isn't the problem 

Maybe Henderson isn't the problem 

You can run but you can't hide mate....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmLRTVYgEq4

You can run but you can't hide mate....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmLRTVYgEq4

Seriously though, id like to see how effective the duo of Can and Hendo could be in a midfield duo.

Hendo would be the one bombing forward with his engine, picking passes and making direct runs in behind defenders, where Can would sit deep and be the destroyer (Mascherano and Lucas once was) breaking up play and starting off our own.

Gerrard has a place in the starting 11 for me no doubt, but not a guaranteed started week in week out anymore in my eyes.

I think they targeted coutinho rather than Moreno.  After his performances against them last season they knew they needed him to have a quiet game, they couldn't allow him to have the space he needs to excel and they did a good job of it.

Correct Debs, they closed him down good style and snuffed out a direct feed they knew could have presented problems.
Our lack of teeth in attack allowed them the luxury of players to stifle Philippe successfully.

Maybe Henderson isn't the problem 

Brave move.

Brave move.

come on mate i changed my "cursed" name to vsterling, full of bravery me.

Which brings me on to this mate:

For, as long as we play without a defensive midfielder, I'm not sure any partnership will be much better [goals conceded] than an other. However I would have no problem giving it a go. A settled back four/five would at least give us further insight to where exactly the defensive 'problem' lies. 



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I think you are right to an extent dude BUT the errors on Monday had less to do with our midfield and more to do to do with the positioning of our back four in relation to each other. Neville and Carra did a pretty good job of covering all the goals and also the Clyne goal against Saints last season.

In a nutshell:

- The Clyne goal could have been prevented if the Skrtel and Lovren and shuffled themselves across a few yards to better cover the danger and cut off the space Clyne was able to attack

- The first goal at City was down to a poor clearance after Moreno got caught on his heels and then swung the wrong boot at the ball

- The Aguero goal could have been prevented of Lovren and Skrtel had simply dropped off a few yards and shuffled out to the left in response to the fact Moreno was pushed up marking a player on the left touch line.

So two of the four goals we have conceded could have probably been prevented by a few subtle adjustments by our back four. They 've got to get this part of the game right otherwise we could be in trouble this season. It seems unlikely we will score quite as many as last season so I'm use sing we need to tighten up to the tune of 15+ goals.

That's not to say we couldn't and shouldn't make some adjustments in midfield, we should. I actually would revamp the way we play away from home a touch because I feel we have it in us to be the best side in the league on the break with players like Sturridge, Sterling, Lallana and Coutinho along with Gerrard and Henderson's eye for a ball into space. It wouldn't be such a bad shout to give it up the ball and suck a few sides in, much like Houllier used to do.

It wouldn't be such a bad shout to give it up the ball and suck a few sides in, much like Houllier used to do.

I think you have to be reasonably confident that your defence can do it's job before you can encourage teams to come on to you. Not sure we are at that stage yet mate. I do agree that we should look to hit teams a little more on the break but I would like to see a few clean sheets or at least less panic when the opposition attacks. (the panic is mainly from me I am sad to say )

That's the problem on the second goal. Rodgers has bought these lads in to push out and be aggressive. His two new signings do that but Skrtel and Johnson stay. I pointed this out in another match as a problem as well and it's why I would play a Lovren Sakho partnership. Sakho steps up as well. We might actually start to see a unit emerge if we get everyone on the same page,

It is sad to say this but the deep mentality is drilled into the heads of the like of Martin and Johnson, we did use to play this way very well under rafa, absorb pressure and counter, but they are killing us, especially Martin, he did this so many times last season too.

This is why I said before, Agger, Johnson and Martin all need to go for the benefit of the club

This is why I said before, Agger, Johnson and Martin all need to go for the benefit of the club

Sorry for 'piggy -backing' this post but it, sort of, fits.

Right now (whatever the cause) you've got your wish: "Agger, Johnson and Martin" are not playing for the club.

Which brings me on to the question I came on to ask...

[Being mindful that I got chastised for suggesting our centre backs were one unit and told that, in effect, Agger was really only 4th choice]:

As of right now: who is our current "4th choice"?

The question is open to everyone by the way.

Think the full backs should be omitted from the discussion the 2 newbies are doing ok

Centre halfs have work to do but it was glaring tonight that they have fook all cover from there midfield.

Mignolet actually caught some crosses tonight made his usual good save released a great pass from which we could have scored in the first half but then goes walkies for there goal!!

I posted somewhere recently that I think the time has come for Brendan to bring in a defensive coach and Im more convinced now that we need one

Think the full backs should be omitted from the discussion the 2 newbies are doing ok

Centre halfs have work to do but it was glaring tonight that they have fook all cover from there midfield.

Mignolet actually caught some crosses tonight made his usual good save released a great pass from which we could have scored in the first half but then goes walkies for there goal!!

I posted somewhere recently that I think the time has come for Brendan to bring in a defensive coach and Im more convinced now that we need one

Fully agree as I posted in the post match thread our CB's are probably getting some undue stick when they bring given minimal protection. Stevie unfortunately is starting to show his age.

Fully agree as I posted in the post match thread our CB's are probably getting some undue stick when they bring given minimal protection. Stevie unfortunately is starting to show his age.

I wouldn't let the centre halfs off the hook too easy either there is issues there for sure.

Funny you mention Stevie showing his age because you would think that his experience would help him have better positioning to cover his 2 centre halfs?

I wouldn't let the centre halfs off the hook too easy either there is issues there for sure.

Funny you mention Stevie showing his age because you would think that his experience would help him have better positioning to cover his 2 centre halfs?

Oh no doubt both the CB's seem to have a error or two in them but I just think the way they are so quickly on the back foot it can't be easy because our midfield sometimes seems non existent.

Defensive side to our midfield is just shocking, nobody closes down, and were so easy to beat on the counter

I posted somewhere recently that I think the time has come for Brendan to bring in a defensive coach and Im more convinced now that we need one

I'm not sure how much difference a defensive coach can make to a side that plays with full backs so advanced and a midfield with Stevie as the deepest.

No way a criticism of Stevie as a like him in this position but the way we play means we will always be left very open.

Ludogrets goal was a carbon copy of Aguero's against. Lovren caught out and Mignolet floundering; not too mention how easily they bypassed midfield.

Ludogrets goal was a carbon copy of Aguero's against. Lovren caught out and Mignolet floundering; not too mention how easily they bypassed midfield.

A few more of these in each game and we'll be fighting our lives for fourth or worse...

A few more of these in each game and we'll be fighting our lives for fourth or worse...

We have a new defence, it will take time. If we make the same mistakes at least we know what to work on.

It is still the beginning of the season so I will say that maybe growing pains could be partially at fault. All of these goals we are letting up are mental lapses. Mignolet was stupid to come so far out of the goal on that one and Lovren got caught out. We have 3 new defensive starters. I am beginning to think it is not the players, but maybe coaching/tactical side. Or the GK side. Mig just is not commanding enough.

I am not sure which of the above or if all of the above are contributing to these soft goals.

Looking forward to the return of Martin Skrtel 

Biggest suspect for me is Mignolet at the moment.

When a keeper performs and looks assured that confidence transpires to the 4 lads in front of him.

I think the CB pairing could be complete cripplers like Pepe and we would not get the easy goals against; however, I really think it is the hole in midfield that sucks them into the vaccum. They get exposed and Mignolet makes the wrong decision a lot but the initial breakdown is coming further forward. It is unfair to point all the blame on a back five. If we had a DM in there it would be different. We don't we play Stevie there and that's fine. He has other qualities and we may never be a great defensive side. I mean all teams these days are conceding a lot more than a few years ago.