Should we bring in a defensive coach?...

No time to train? At this level, it should be about tactics. Not about fixing techniques. And to be fair, some of the goals we conceded were down to poor technique.

There is a place where we horne players' technique - our academy in Kirkby.

So basically, we've just had a run of bad luck with not only the players Brendan inherited going off the boil but the players he's bought all hitting a bad patch too. 'Cause that's what your saying - basic errors.

You acknowledge: that 'something needs to be done', ;that we might need a 'defensive coach' and that there is 'clearly a training problem'. That'll do for me.  

In the interest of harmony I'll happily say that of course players need to take responsibility for individual performances.

No mate, there's no luck but that which you make yourself. We have a variety of problems with our defending. One of the problems is that which we've faced lately. It's not a technical issue like understanding zonal marking would be, it's a common sense issue. It's a personal responsibility issue. You don't need a defensive coach to teach you to get tight to your man or jump for a ball, that's something every kid knows. Carragher said that Lovren's style of defence seems to have become 'wait for someone else to deal with it' and he's right and Lovren is not the only one. No one wants to take that responsibility, they're all leaving it for someone else to deal with it and since no one ever does, it ends up in the back of the net. That's not something you need a specialist for, it's something that needs a bollocking over by the manager.

But we do have a wider problem in the way we approach defence as a club because these players have all performed better either under a previous Liverpool manager or at their previous club. It's no coincidence that, with the exception of his final season, we're conceding far more goals now than we where under Rafa (who I picked as being the last stable manager we had) so obviously once you take out the individual errors from the equation, there's still an obvious underlying issue with the club's approach to defence. But does that mean we need a specialist defensive coach or is it something that can be fixed over time by the current manager and I believe we can.

Agree completely, and am surprised to see so many posters routinely throw Clarkes name into the mix as if it would work. Obviously we would all love Carra to come in and work with the defenders but it's not really possible with his job at Sky, makes it untenable, particularly when he would be working with ex teammates such as Skrtel (who he has criticised many times already this season).

I just don't think Brendan quite knows what to do with them, he will talk all day about tempo, about vision, intelligence on the ball, quality of attacking play, our passing etc but when it comes to defending  you only really ever hear him wax lyrical about how well we have pressed the ball and denied space. It doesn't seem to be in his make-up to actually call our defenders out, to be specific about particular aspects ie. attacking the high ball, 2nd phase, preventing crosses etc.

So I agree a defensive specialist would be a good idea BUT it needs to be somebody who shares Rodgers belief in playing a high line, in pressing the ball and being aggressive. As you say Clarke is quite the opposite. He is very much a Mourinho disciple ie. play on the break, sit deeper, always protect the back four, keep your shape when attacking incase you lose the ball etc. It wouldn't work.

Don't really agree with this assessement of Steve Clarke. When he was here with Kenny we didnt sit deep and play on the counter, we pressed pretty high up the park and tried to dominate possession.
However there may be other reasons why Brendan doesn't want Clarke. Even if he just didn't get on with him, that would be fair enough. I wouldnt advocate somebody being foisted on him.

Disappointing to hear him rule out absolutely anyone though. ( Although nice to know you're reading the threads Brendan - how about ye?)

I don't really understand the "lack of coaching time" argument. This is his third season, and they are in 4 or 5 days a week.
Its not the most convincing explanation.

And if the problem is a lack of coaching time, whats the solution? Is he going to get the players to stay behind and train longer?
Cos its a problem that needs a solution.

so obviously once you take out the individual errors from the equation, there's still an obvious underlying issue with the club's approach to defence.

Yeah I know - that's why I believe it's F***ing daft to focus on the individual as being the root of the problem.

No mate, there's no luck but that which you make yourself. We have a variety of problems with our defending. One of the problems is that which we've faced lately. It's not a technical issue like understanding zonal marking would be, it's a common sense issue. It's a personal responsibility issue. You don't need a defensive coach to teach you to get tight to your man or jump for a ball, that's something every kid knows. Carragher said that Lovren's style of defence seems to have become 'wait for someone else to deal with it' and he's right and Lovren is not the only one. No one wants to take that responsibility, they're all leaving it for someone else to deal with it and since no one ever does, it ends up in the back of the net. That's not something you need a specialist for, it's something that needs a bollocking over by the manager.

But we do have a wider problem in the way we approach defence as a club because these players have all performed better either under a previous Liverpool manager or at their previous club. It's no coincidence that, with the exception of his final season, we're conceding far more goals now than we where under Rafa (who I picked as being the last stable manager we had) so obviously once you take out the individual errors from the equation, there's still an obvious underlying issue with the club's approach to defence. But does that mean we need a specialist defensive coach or is it something that can be fixed over time by the current manager and I believe we can.

Listen - you've obviously given this an awful lot of thought and looked equally at all the factors 5t - I know I have and yet we've reached different conclusions and opinions.

My opinion: put simply is - if I was to point to defensive frailties as being the reason we lost the league last season, decided to change personnel, (to rectify the problem), yet again and noted that those 'frailties' still hadn't disappeared: chances are, I'd be thinking - there must be something more to the problem than just personnel. Anyhows...

It's been interesting but we're obviously not going to agree; no matter how often the same 'argument' is repeated so, on that bombshell - I'm outta here.   

Steve Clarke is still out of work....

Steve Clarke nonsense ain't happening complete opposite to Brendan in their football philosophy from a organised pragmatic view to a fluid dynamic one.

Brendan has his philosophy and there is no way he is going to compromise on that which means he is going to have to come up with a template for a tight defence without compromising our attack based football.

I just feel, if Brendan hasn't figured out a template yet, then he's never going to do it. We've had the same problem with the defence since he arrived, we've thrown loads of money at it and it's worse, not better.
I don't want Brendan out, far from it, but I do want him to put the needs of the team above his ego. If he can't solve the problem, he should be man enough to admit it and bring in somebody who can.

We had one game per week last season how much coaching time does he want. His defence at Swansea let in more than a goal a game too. He has enough defenders now which he has signed so you cant blame other peoples signings.

New coaches yes. Brendans staff needs overhauling.
Or it could lead to his tenure here being over, as harsh as he is with players he may need to do that with his staff.
Just because Mike Marsh is from Liverpool it doesn't mean he's good, and Colin Pascoe comes across as gormless.

How about these experienced Defenders actually attack the ball,  mark their men,  get their line right!  F***ing schoolboy stuff,  they should need told how to do the basics,  they're all F***ing internationals FFS.
They should be wanting that ball like its Britney Spears fanny!

I understand why Brendan says NO because he would look weak but letting in goals game after game he looks weaker. Its a conundrum isn't it. We had Sami and Hencho both good organisers then Sami and Jamie and Jamie learned from Sami.Then we had Jamie and Danny and latterly Skyrtel what we don't have is a CB who can organise a defense and it shows so maybe its not a coach we need but a decent CB

How about these experienced Defenders actually attack the ball,  mark their men,  get their line right!  F***ing schoolboy stuff,  they should need told how to do the basics,  they're all F***ing internationals FFS.
They should be wanting that ball like its Britney Spears fanny!

Agree.

There are some things our defenders shouldn't need coached on.

How about these experienced Defenders actually attack the ball,  mark their men,  get their line right!  F***ing schoolboy stuff,  they should need told how to do the basics,  they're all F***ing internationals FFS.
They should be wanting that ball like its Britney Spears fanny!

your right mate there is far too much negativity in our CB's they just need to get on the front foot and be decisive.
Not sure Britney is a good analogy.

your right mate there is far too much negativity in our CB's they just need to get on the front foot and be decisive.
Not sure Britney is a good analogy.

Greta Garbo for you mate 

Greta Garbo for you mate 

Don't think Britney is much younger mate I was thinking our Linda

Yeah I know - that's why I believe it's f**king daft to focus on the individual as being the root of the problem.

 Listen - you've obviously given this an awful lot of thought and looked equally at all the factors 5t - I know I have and yet we've reached different conclusions and opinions.

My opinion: put simply is - if I was to point to defensive frailties as being the reason we lost the league last season, decided to change personnel, (to rectify the problem), yet again and noted that those 'frailties' still hadn't disappeared: chances are, I'd be thinking - there must be something more to the problem than just personnel. Anyhows...

It's been interesting but we're obviously not going to agree; no matter how often the same 'argument' is repeated so, on that bombshell - I'm outta here.   

O.K., sorry I wasn't trying to rubbish your opinion, I thought you where trying to take the piss with your reply.

i bet brendan could turn chelsea's defence into a leaky one

i bet brendan could turn chelsea's defence into a leaky one

I bet you're Eurored's twin brother.

Didn't let in a goal against Hull, don't know what the problem is.

Didn't let in a goal against Hull, don't know what the problem is.

his teams over the last three season have conceded more than a goal per game over 130 if my memory is correct so he is definitely not a defensive minded coach is he.

i noticed the sarcasm in king kenny's post, nice one mate 

i noticed the sarcasm in king kenny's post, nice one mate 

Funny I noticed that bollox in all of yours!

Funny I noticed that bollox in all of yours!

love you too mate 

love you too mate 

Don't take it personal lad, I just find you very negative