The Dark arts, gamesmanship, and the winning mentality.

Good thread. Think you need proper cu*ts on your team to execute these "tactics". Chelsea have full of them and still adding even more. King Kenny had this in mind and signed some cheeky bas**rds in Adam, Carroll and Suarez. Rodgers replaced them with nice fellas like Allen, Borini or Lambert. We´re quiet unballanced in this department now.

I'm not saying we should "chase the ref" as a rule mate, mate just saying that we shouldn't let them get an advantage. If they chase the ref, we should chase him too, otherwise it looks to the official as if he's messed it up.

totally agree, we are far too nice, imagine souness, dalglish etc against those tw*ts

Dark art number five:

Managing the referee.

At the end of the second period of extra time last night there was one minute added on. This after they'd been wasting time ever since they'd scored. Wasting time by taking ages over every set piece, wasting time by going to pick the ball up for a throw in but "inadvertently" see it bounce off their toes and run twenty yards away (I love that one). How come there was only one minute? Because we weren't in the referees ear enough. Every time they were f***ing about Stevie should have been in Olivers ear "that's another thirty seconds right there ref, don't forget to add it on at the end". Would we have got all the time which was wasted? No. Would we have got more than 1 minute? Definitely. If we'd scored the goal and wasted time, how much time would have been added on at the end of extra time? Precisely.   

The lads on Anfield Wrap were talking about this the other week Mick and how much Hendo has does this.

This Starts from the top and I'm not sure Brendan has it in his locker...

Hendo is trying but he is cutting a lonesome figure

I'm not disputing Mourinho's single-mindedness nor the fact he is an extremely effective manager (probably the most effective there is IMHO). I'm not even denying that Brendan could improve in the regard of being "nastier". The real reason though that Mourinho's cv is packed with trophies and Brendan's isn't, is because by and large Mourinho has managed clubs who have a greater opportunity to win trophies. Simple as that really.

Sorry mate, but being at clubs with greater opportunities doesn't mean you take them. Moyes at United or Pellegrini at Real, for example. Mourinho is a successful manager precisely because his attitude is win at all costs. The above at their respective teams did not have that same attitude and so where unsuccessful. People in the papers and the media never talk about the dark arts of Mourinho's teams, they talk only of their success. We should be prepared to adopt an identical attitude because winning the Fair Play awards doesn't put trophies in the cabinet. The question is whether Brendan is willing to sacrifice his principles in order to do so?

Sorry mate, but being at clubs with greater opportunities doesn't mean you take them. Moyes at United or Pellegrini at Real, for example. Mourinho is a successful manager precisely because his attitude is win at all costs. The above at their respective teams did not have that same attitude and so where unsuccessful. People in the papers and the media never talk about the dark arts of Mourinho's teams, they talk only of their success. We should be prepared to adopt an identical attitude because winning the Fair Play awards doesn't put trophies in the cabinet. The question is whether Brendan is willing to sacrifice his principles in order to do so?

It's just that when we do , we get mocked, pilloried and subjugated as being atypical, hard done to whinny Scousers. Rafa tried and had to defend himself at every turn.

Well, dare I say it, he did at home

All good points here, the thing about Mourinho and his team is that it's so ingrained in his players its now second nature.

A great example of this was right after they had scored, if you watch the Chelsea substitutes whenever the ball goes off near them, they did their absolute best to slow the ball coming back, even by a second or two. At one point Drogba literally throws the ball away from Can as he's coming to get it for a throw. That's what years of playing for Mourinho does for you.

Said it time and time again, when it comes to timekeeping, it should not be the referees job.  Independent timekeeper's have long been called for, stopping the clock everytime the ball goes out of play, it makes time wasting pointless.

I always actively stated I don't like our players diving, let alone opposition players.  But, like other forms of players' gamesmanship, this is always put at the referees door.  Why?  Is it too much to ask players to stop cheating?  If we judge by members from their ranks, as often heard on 606 & MOTD, yes it is too much.  They simply condone it or they give trot out the most condescending and asinine phrase in modern football, 'You've never played the game'.

On a by the by, when did running or backing into an opposition player, when you have the ball, become a free kick for you and even a booking for you opponent standing his ground.

Maureen's been a kunt for years, first notice of his win at all costs was when his cheating diving Porto side won the CL, his methods continue and will always be part of his philosophy to winning,

Should our Brendan follow suit,? No not for me, he will have seen at first hand the special KUNTS way of gaining any advantage including bending refs ears just like that other kunt we all loved to hate, you might remember him, he drank lots of wine and worked at a 'ol toilet' somewhere in the northwest,
Anyhoo,

are we becoming the Arsenal of the north ?
for years we've had real strong headed players in our midst but in recent years this type of player has been missing,

The game itself has been reduced to something akin to outside netball where almost any sort of contact is a potential foul,

as for mind games and the like the likes of Maureen and slur kunt before him the underhand tactics used will alway bring contentious issues, unfortunately it's become part of the modern game, the likes of ourselves and to a certain extent Arsenal try and play as fair as possible, most of the time !



Do our players need to be more savvy, hell yes , they do but that only comes thru experience, Coutinho, Can, etc are only kids and will become wiser as time goes by,

I'm old school , I can see why Can and Skirtle acted like they did, yes it could have backfired had Costa been nutted, but he would think twice next time , we may have lost a player thru a red card that's just the way it is, I'd rather have it that way rather than two soft yellows for tugging shirts or celebrating a goal.

I would hate to see LFC stoop to the levels of those cheating chav bas**rds, if it meant we miss out on the odd Wembley appearance then fine, they may have their piece of silverware , but we will still have our pride,

Anyhoo, Nigel cough and his Blades will put them to the sword on March 1st, hopefully by some player taking a dive in the penalty box....


We all have dreams, don't we ?






YNWA

Put in a call to Hogwarts for a Defense Against The Dark Arts tutor for the lads

A winning mentality should be instilled by the manager, very simple.

A winning mentality should be instilled by the manager, very simple.

But given we've only won one trophy in the last 8 years or whatever it is Shabs, under four different managers (the King being the exception to the rule), perhaps it's not as simple as that.

Said it time and time again, when it comes to timekeeping, it should not be the referees job.  Independent timekeeper's have long been called for, stopping the clock everytime the ball goes out of play, it makes time wasting pointless.

http://www.soccerbythenumbers.com/2011/05/how-much-football-is-there-in-match.html

http://www.soccerbythenumbers.com/2011/05/how-much-football-is-there-in-match.html

It is something I'm very aware of and, for me, would be far better for the game than goal line technology or video reffing.

Said it time and time again, when it comes to timekeeping, it should not be the referees job.  Independent timekeeper's have long been called for, stopping the clock everytime the ball goes out of play, it makes time wasting pointless.

Wasting actual seconds is only a part of it though mate. Notice how Mourinho and his herd of peasants with bling bling resort to time wasting and deliberate fouling as a tactic from kick off or start of second half in some games? It's not to waste time in most cases, but to actually disrupt the flow of play and frustrate opponents. The scummy sh1ts do it to annoy the sh1t out of opposition more than waste seconds.

This is the real reason why I find Mourinho and Chelsea under him an absolutely abhorrent and despicable group of excuses of human beings. They succeed and thrive through sucking the life, soul and energy out of everyone else around them. Only other naturally occurring organisms that live that way cancers and viruses. As with all things nature, I'm sure there will be a cure for these kunts as well.

I do agree overall however that we need more steel in defence and midfield, and we need to wise up. Occasionally eating a yellow card to prevent a clear goal scoring opportunity is acceptable, but building a philisophy around "dark arts" like Chelsea is not something I want to be associated with. But, I prefer to focus a lot more on finishing from our midfielders, defence, winning mentality and attacking style of football.

Well it gets more farcical because the League Cup has different rules to the League. If the referee didn't see the incident (stamping) then the FA refer it back to him to look at footage and make a decision. In the League it's an independent [of the match] three man panel. Like the league, if he did see it and chose not to do anything about it, they're powerless to do anything.

The problem with all of this lies with the laws of the game. We've had extensive TV footage of football matches for twenty odd years now and the laws of the game are still lagging behind and refuse to embrace technology. The rule book needs re-writing for a modern age. Only then will cheating be less prevalent than it is now.

Well it gets more farcical because the League Cup has different rules to the League. If the referee didn't see the incident (stamping) then the FA refer it back to him to look at footage and make a decision. In the League it's an independent [of the match] three man panel. Like the league, if he did see it and chose not to do anything about it, they're powerless to do anything. The problem with all of this lies with the laws of the game. We've had extensive TV footage of football matches for twenty odd years now and the laws of the game are still lagging behind and refuse to embrace technology. The rule book needs re-writing for a modern age. Only then will cheating be less prevalent than it is now.

How ridicilous. The only silver lining is that the ref wasn't taking much sh*t from Chelsea, especially Costa's play-acting. If this is the scenario we find ourselves in, it's only a question of whether the ref saw it or not correct? If so, I'd hope he would brandish a retrospective red card...is that a realistic scenario?

They way Chelsea are and the ethos that comes with them is a hard nut to crack no matter what you do ,as someone else said its a trait of all there players its instilled early doors and worst of all its given a free hand by all the media and referee`s alike, the latter being the biggest problem how many times did the ref point to his watch acknowledging time wasting and still added F**k all on.
I noticed Drogba throwing the ball away,  any other time they warm up at the other end hes been told to go down there and cause mischief seeing if our kids will bite,
 if Can had got into a bit of verbals when he threw the ball away , it could all have kicked off and thats another point intimidating our younger players,if nothing else they should have learned a bit about themselves also about what makes these so called world class players tick.
Now I've got a lot of time for Hazzard very hard guy to mark very nippy yet hes down at the slightest touch milking it ,Oscar ,Ramieres ,the same week in week out its like they've set the standard for whats acceptable for a foul for Chelsea you put a red shirt on and you get F**k all for the same offence, Louie was  the prime example thumped left right and centre no foul given or indeed penalty slated by all and sundry  the slow mo then  shows he has been fouled and the pundits have made a complete James of it along with the referee and we are left with the hole in the doughnut ,doesn't do LFC any good come the end of the season points make prizes how many of those are lost to referee`s F***ing up Raheems onside goal at City last season a starter for 10 ,does my box in,we are to quiet  IMO we want to shout and bawl a hell of a lot more Terry and Maureen are primed ready to jump on the slightest thing we moan instead of getting in the refs  faces ,if its not Terry its Fabricas not him Hazzard ,not him Cahill they all have a pop we have Stevie and Jordan and Skirtel ,I wish Sakho was in there hes a big lad know what I mean very handy,your fighting tooth a nail with these bas**rds on every call you better believe it
I suppose it could come with age John Obe arguing a call from a ref or big Ivanovic arguing his case is  listened to its rattled the ref cause theres about 4 round him , Costa goes through Can he moans on his own no back up refs not taking it from a young boy even although hes right and Can gets the "I'm the referee line",
I'm still fuming now that these tw*ts went  through  ,hopefully lessons will have been  learnt last night,cant wait for our next encounter.


YNWA

How ridicilous. The only silver lining is that the ref wasn't taking much sh*t from Chelsea, especially Costa's play-acting. If this is the scenario we find ourselves in, it's only a question of whether the ref saw it or not correct? If so, I'd hope he would brandish a retrospective red card...is that a realistic scenario?

In fairness to the situation, the referee got every major decision wrong. Both teams could have ended up with players sent off. But more's the reason to have someone watching the game on a monitor who cannot be influenced by players surrounding them or managers accosting them in the tunnel, someone who can radio to the referee and bring his attention to incidents that have been missed. The Instant Replay was invented in 1955. Sixty years later it's still not being used by match officials.

They way Chelsea are and the ethos that comes with them is a hard nut to crack no matter what you do ,as someone else said its a trait of all there players its instilled early doors and worst of all its given a free hand by all the media and referee`s alike, the latter being the biggest problem how many times did the ref point to his watch acknowledging time wasting and still added f**k all on.
I noticed Drogba throwing the ball away,  any other time they warm up at the other end hes been told to go down there and cause mischief seeing if our kids will bite,
 if Can had got into a bit of verbals when he threw the ball away , it could all have kicked off and thats another point intimidating our younger players,if nothing else they should have learned a bit about themselves also about what makes these so called world class players tick.
Now I've got a lot of time for Hazzard very hard guy to mark very nippy yet hes down at the slightest touch milking it ,Oscar ,Ramieres ,the same week in week out its like they've set the standard for whats acceptable for a foul for Chelsea you put a red shirt on and you get f**k all for the same offence, Louie was  the prime example thumped left right and centre no foul given or indeed penalty slated by all and sundry  the slow mo then  shows he has been fouled and the pundits have made a complete James of it along with the referee and we are left with the hole in the doughnut ,doesn't do LFC any good come the end of the season points make prizes how many of those are lost to referee`s f**king up Raheems onside goal at City last season a starter for 10 ,does my box in,we are to quiet  IMO we want to shout and bawl a hell of a lot more Terry and Maureen are primed ready to jump on the slightest thing we moan instead of getting in the refs  faces ,if its not Terry its Fabricas not him Hazzard ,not him Cahill they all have a pop we have Stevie and Jordan and Skirtel ,I wish Sakho was in there hes a big lad know what I mean very handy,your fighting tooth a nail with these bas**rds on every call you better believe it
I suppose it could come with age John Obe arguing a call from a ref or big Ivanovic arguing his case is  listened to its rattled the ref cause theres about 4 round him , Costa goes through Can he moans on his own no back up refs not taking it from a young boy even although hes right and Can gets the "I'm the referee line",
I'm still fuming now that these tw*ts went  through  ,hopefully lessons will have been  learnt last night,cant wait for our next encounter.


YNWA

Mate, I think I get the gist of your post, but you're either angry to the point steam coming out of your ears, or you've poped 5 pills and you're absolutely buzzing. The amount of punctuation you've missed would keep the population of Essex going for years...

Mate, I think I get the gist of your post, but you're either angry to the point steam coming out of your ears, or you've poped 5 pills and you're absolutely buzzing. The amount of punctuation you've missed would keep the population of Essex going for years...

Cheers mate its the Stella

But given we've only won one trophy in the last 8 years or whatever it is Shabs, under four different managers (the King being the exception to the rule), perhaps it's not as simple as that.

I think it is mate, you install a winning manager with trophies to his name & that will in itself instill into the players, why was Shankly,Paisley,Fagan,Kenny,Houllier,Rafa,Fergie,Jose,Guardiola,Ancelloti etc so successful?.

The above made players twice what they were & in return those players would reward their manager with results.

Winning starts from the top of the club.

made players twice what they were & in return those players would reward their manager with results.

Brendan/Suarez!