Sturridge vs Firmino

I thought this deserved a separate topic because it's such a predicament (albeit a good one) we find ourselves in at the moment, especially after the game yesterday.

Sturridge proved again last night that he is our best striker and best finisher when he is played as a central striker but obviously that spot is currently occupied by Firmino who Klopp sees as first choice and works far better in the interchangeable front 4 we have firing in goals at present.

If everybody stays free from injury then do we risk losing Sturridge if he wants to leave and play first team football somewhere (which is very possible and you couldn't blame him) or does Klopp try to fit Sturridge in to the team and how does he do that?

For us to see the best from Sturridge, who is one of the best strikers in the league, he needs to be played as a striker and down the middle.

So what do we do with him? Where does he fit? And will he stay if he isn't guaranteed a starting place? Who do we take out of the team to fit him in down the middle?

I'm interested to know peoples thoughts...

I thought this deserved a separate topic because it's such a predicament (albeit a good one) we find ourselves in at the moment, especially after the game yesterday.

Sturridge proved again last night that he is our best striker and best finisher when he is played as a central striker but obviously that spot is currently occupied by Firmino who Klopp sees as first choice and works far better in the interchangeable front 4 we have firing in goals at present.

If everybody stays free from injury then do we risk losing Sturridge if he wants to leave and play first team football somewhere (which is very possible and you couldn't blame him) or does Klopp try to fit Sturridge in to the team and how does he do that?

For us to see the best from Sturridge, who is one of the best strikers in the league, he needs to be played as a striker and down the middle.

So what do we do with him? Where does he fit? And will he stay if he isn't guaranteed a starting place? Who do we take out of the team to fit him in down the middle?

I'm interested to know peoples thoughts...

It is a good predicament to have and one we've not had since................?  I can't remember actually.

I think it's harder for the fans to get their heads around, that our "best" player can't get in the team or at least get starts in their favoured position but somehow I don't think it'll faze Jürgen. 

He gives us options, a different way to play against certain teams, in certain games and all Studge can do is take his chances when he gets them so if and when the preferred tactics of using Firmino stops producing results, he comes in.

He may well decide that's not enough for him and feel he needs to move on to get that playing time, maybe it'll depend on what we win this season.  I know he has plenty of medals from his other Clubs but he never played a massive part in winning them and where would he go that he'd be guaranteed starts? 

He's already been at City and Chelsea, maybe Arsenal could use him, he'd certainly fit their style and he spends enough time on the treatment table to join their ranks of forever injured players.  Southampton possibly, West Ham the same but would we sell to those teams?

It's always a dilemma when/if a better player wants out because we generally never replace them properly and suffer afterwards but I'm not sure that would be the case in this instance.

This is a debate that has gone on across the boards for some time now so it is worthy of its own topic.

I'm Daniels biggest fan. When he is at the top of his game then I wouldn't swap him for anybody else. He is the most natural finisher I've seen since Robbie and for that reason alone, he starts in almost every game for me. You can't argue with his goal scoring record, it's as good as anyone.

I do worry about his attitude though. Although I think it's a bit of a myth that he's a lazy player, never presses and doesn't fit into 'Klopps system', I do accept that he could work a bit harder for the team and at times he comes across selfish. Its also very strange how under Brendan when things got really tough and we were in desperate need of goals (having to play a young Sterling upfront), Danny declared himself unfit every single week but as soon as Jürgen comes in and says get a grip of yourself he is available for every game now. When did he last get injured? I can't even remember. Yet it wasn't long ago he was 'injured' every single week. That to me sums his attitude up.

Firmino on the other hand reminds me of Kuyt almost. I like Firmino, I think he's a good player, but he's nothing special and I wouldn't describe him as 'world class' like I would Danny. Firmino will run all day long, work hard for the team and chip in with a few goals or assists too. He accommodates our midfield a lot better than Danny does an brings the best out of Coutinho and Lallana in particular. The three of them gel really well with each other and are a nightmare for other teams, adding Mane to the mix too. The only worry I have with Firmino is whether he will get the 20+ goals needed which I think all teams competing for the league need from their striker(s).

My preference would be to play Firmino on the left where I think he is best suited. It means Coutinho plays more central so we can get him on the ball and then we have a 20 goal a season striker in Sturridge playing up top. The only games where we bench Sturridge for me would be at our rivals away from home. Playing a team like City where they will play keep ball and we need to press and defend from the front then it is obviously better to go with Firmino. So apart from half a dozen or so games in the season, I'd have Danny in the team myself.

To be fair to Jürgen and the other lads in the team though, we're picking up points, scoring goals and we're playing well. We're joint top so it would be foolish to change anything at the moment. I just hope we include Danny enough so he doesn't leave us because it'll be a nightmare losing somebody of that quality in my opinion, especially to a rival.  If Arsenal signed him they'd walk the league.

Its a no brainer, Firmino all day for me purely down to his movement, attitude and contribution to the team. Yes Sturridge is the best "classical" striker we have but he simply doesn't work hard enough or make the correct runs to fit Jürgen's system. Everyone singing his praises about last night are missing the point that he played against a fairly inexperienced defence and also that he fu**ed up more chances than he scored from, that is not world class in my book.
At this point in time he would not make my starting 11 but he is a damned good option to have on the bench.

            Karius/Migs
Clyne  Matip  Lovren  Milner
              Hendo
        Lallana    Gigi
Mane      Firmino     Couts

That's our best 11, I wouldn't change it unless a time comes when it stops working.

Can't decide on which keeper

Sturridge is a great striker, the best in the league as far as I'm concerned, but we play better with Firmino through the middle I wouldn't change things.

Danny might end up pushing for a move but that's the risk I'd take.

For me its Firmino, Firmino and Sturridge or Sturridge and Origi.

Danny as the only striker for me is a no but if he has got another striker with him he tends to flourish. Still not sure whether his pace is what it was, though.

What's wrong with having a great squad of players, why is it only Arse, City etc are allowed to have a good squad?

I don't think Sturridge is going anywhere, Klopp speaks very highly of his ability.

No doubt Sturridge plays better with a partner but are people suggesting he is not good enough to adapt. He has not been helped by injuries hitting his pre season training then picking up another niggle.

The whole he doesn't press enough is a bit over blown by people.
Lewandowski was hardly a pressing machine at Dortmund and bloody hell Jürgen signed Immobile.
Danny needs to get up to speed and learn about how to cut off the passing channels and probably improve his link up play quicker than he has been used to.
Talk of the likes of Ings in comparison is pretty laughable, he has been 4th choice for a reason.

All the above he can do in my opinion and bottom line what  Klopp like all managers wants is a striker who has an instinct for finding the back of the net.

Firmino for Klopp's style but Danny is world class on his day! Firmino's movement is so important for our style of play.

It is a good predicament to have and one we've not had since................?  I can't remember actually.

I think it's harder for the fans to get their heads around, that our "best" player can't get in the team or at least get starts in their favoured position but somehow I don't think it'll faze Jürgen. 

He gives us options, a different way to play against certain teams, in certain games and all Studge can do is take his chances when he gets them so if and when the preferred tactics of using Firmino stops producing results, he comes in.

He may well decide that's not enough for him and feel he needs to move on to get that playing time, maybe it'll depend on what we win this season.  I know he has plenty of medals from his other Clubs but he never played a massive part in winning them and where would he go that he'd be guaranteed starts? 

He's already been at City and Chelsea, maybe Arsenal could use him, he'd certainly fit their style and he spends enough time on the treatment table to join their ranks of forever injured players.  Southampton possibly, West Ham the same but would we sell to those teams?

It's always a dilemma when/if a better player wants out because we generally never replace them properly and suffer afterwards but I'm not sure that would be the case in this instance.

Spot on is our Debs, of course,  and I'll add this, it is particularly more difficult this season having only domestic comps to play in, next season will be different,  we will need a much larger core of quality players to add to our developing squad,  including a other striker, so not much point in selling when you already have a ideal component,

Imo Sturridge on his game is second only to Aguero in the EPL, world class, he fits ideally in a Klopp system like what Debs hit on dependant on the oppo,

Not that I'm getting ahead of myself here but assuming we WILL be in Europe in some format next season rotation will be pivotal and completely necessary.

There's not many top quality strikers around who could fit in a Klopp side,  perhaps Aubameyang, but I'm struggling to find someone else, so for me Daniel, if he decides to stay will be pivotal.

YNWA

Definitely Firmino. I don't understand why people think he's just another hard-working player with good movements. He's a class act and a much better team player than Sturridge.
I rate Sturridge highly, but our first team are playing such great football that I wouldn't change anything right now.
Also, I didn't think Sturridge performance yesterday proved anything. We played against a poor Spurs side and he also missed two sitters. That's hardly comparable to his performance last year in the 6-1 win against Southampton.

Posted this in Studge's thread but it works here just as well.

He play's his best with another striker up front, in past games with Origi and him he has done well, 13/14 with Suarez up front he did fantastic. Our style is that fluid front 3 interchanging and making run/cuts and taking angles which again has never been Studge's game.

Somebody on TAW put it spot on....Torres was not a lazy stiker..but if you put him in comparison with Rushie, Fernando would look lazy. I don't think Sturridge is lazy at all but when you look at him next to Firmino he looks it.

He is what we would call a classic striker but I think Firmino is a new type of #9 which we will see more and more of in the next 10 years...the position is being redefined.

All that being said Sturridge can do crazy things with the ball and is by far our most polished finisher, it's an awesome problem to have and you don't here a peep from him complaining...he may go next year or not..either way he has been a great striker for us and we should enjoy the luxury of having him here.

What I love most about this discussion is how none of us would have dreamed of it 6 months ago, Firmino's progression is very exciting, and his ceiling just gets higher every week.

Firmino puts himself in as the first name on the team sheet, then Danny gets a sniff in a League Cup game and bangs in two, "your move Bobby". I'm happy to let that play out for as long as we can!

Either way it's a win-win situation.

I just don't get why, whenever we have more than one quality player fighting for a position on the team it's a problem. It's as if we aren't allowed a strong squad. EVER. Only certain clubs can have strong squads. What's that about?

Either way it's a win-win situation.

I just don't get why, whenever we have more than one quality player fighting for a position on the team it's a problem. It's as if we aren't allowed a strong squad. EVER. Only certain clubs can have strong squads. What's that about?

The other thing I don't get about Sturridge is the perception he is lazy. Granted he does not run around like a headless chicken and he needs work on closing down but lazy? I don't see lazy is he Danny Ings? no but to me lazy is Balotelli and Sturridge is the opposite of old Mario.

Another knock on his is attitude...this one I really don't get is he supposed to smile from the bench like a jack in the box or something? I don't see any attitude problems, don't see him going off on instagram or twitter like balotelli or Sahko...he does his business and seems to get along just fine with the rest of the squad. Just because he does not sit there with a permanent "joker" smile when the camera pans to him does not mean he has a problem..body language experts have this one all wrong.

He is a different kind of striker suited more to a 4-4-2 or a formation that has him with a partner up top versus a fluid 3 man front line...just because he has a different game does not mean he's not a team player with a bad attitude, it's just a different skill set.

I am sure Arsenal, Spurs or Chelsea would be more than happy to take him off our hands...though I do not have a clue as to why we supporters would want to see him gone.

Sturridge the better striker but simply does not have what it takes to play on his own in our system and what klopp demands. 4-4-2 Sturridge starts any other formation has to be firmino end of

Doesn't need to be and at many points throughout the season, it won't be an either/or scenario - the two have worked and will work together quite often. As long as we are winning I personally give a F**k if one, both, or none play.

That said: you should have fun filling your boots arguing the [ifs buts and what abouts] toss troops. 

A dilemma (Greek: δίλημμα "double proposition") is a problem offering two possibilities, neither of which is unambiguously acceptable or preferable.

This feels like the exact opposite of a dilemma to me......two solutions both of which are entirely acceptable/desireable........

As long as we keep piling up the wins.......

Must be me age 

We have waited quite a while for this conundrum , dont give a sh*t who plays as long as we keep racking up the wins  , personally like the pair of them .

Based on form right now, would still go with Bobby. Danny has scored some goals in the Cup but in the PL were the anti is upped, right now, would still go Bobby. Studge as guys have said, is best finisher in the squad, could easily have had a hat-trick last night - but in a tight tough PL game, Klopp wants people working hard without the ball, tackling, pressing hard, and he just doesn't do it.

Am kinda scratching my head saying it, but it's hard to see how Danny fits into the side long term. In the first XI you look at the work ethic of the players, the effort they are putting in, will Danny ever do that?  Would Klopp think, get a good chunk of cash in for Danny, and buy a recognised striker who he 'will' start in matches? Can't imagine Danny would want to stay if things continue the way they currently are tbh. If a player starts angling for a move, and they are not first choice, they generally get away if we can get good money in.

Form plays a part too and Firmino has improved hugely imo, he is stronger, more confident, showing good skill and passing, working hard - maybe not the individual finisher Studge is - but is 'ticking more boxes'. If he has a dip, or gets injured, maybe Danny gets more of a look in, and if he does Studge needs to take his chance. Origi did well last night and is pushing too - though it 'was' Danny who scored the goals, and would have him come in.

Currently though, great problem to have

Definitely Firmino. I don't understand why people think he's just another hard-working player with good movements.
He's a class act and a much better team player than Sturridge.


Also, I didn't think Sturridge performance yesterday proved anything.
We played against a poor Spurs side and he also missed two sitters.
That's hardly comparable to his performance last year in the 6-1 win against Southampton.

First of all it should be Strikers vs. Firmino because Sturridge is getting a hell of a lot more games than Origi and Ings. But on the wider point, why does there even have to be a versus? It's Horses for courses which is the approach Klopp is taking. Some games will suit Sturridge more, others Firmino. No need for pecking orders. You'd think we would be celebrating the fact we have so much attacking talent, not making unnecessary issues out of it.

Klopp wants people working hard without the ball, tackling, pressing hard, and he just doesn't do it.

The question I have is: why?  Why won't Sturridge press hard and work without the ball?

Is he physically incapable of it?  he looks fit enough to me. 

So the only other explanation is that Klopp has told him "I need you to press and work hard without the ball," and Sturridge said "sorry boss but I don't do that."

And if Sturridge is really telling the manager that he won't do what he is told on the pitch then he needs to be sold ASAP.