Rafa MUST win us the league next season

[Rafa La Bamba]

As much as I love Rafa Benitez and want him to carry on with us, he must win something and challenge next season!
We have not even challenged for the Premiership yet, but certain managers would get sacked for challenging but not even bringing anything home so questions will need to be asked.

No need guys to start seeing this as a negative post, it's not. It's Rafa's 5th year coming up and realistically he should be now trying to win the Premiership and should have already challenged for it.

If next season we finish empty handed something needs to change. It's a strong Liverpool he took over from so it shouldn't take 10 years to make them Champions...

[The Invisible Man]

Bullshit.

A strong Liverpool he took over? Finishing with 60 points and awful in Europe from 2002 onwards? Two of the best players were Owen and Kewell, the former leaving as soon as Rafa arrived and the latter never fit. Look back at that squad from 2003/04 and it was light years behind where we are now.

Rafa needs to challenge for the league next season, true. But win it when Chelsea have spent three times as much money and Ferguson has had more money and more time? No. He can only keep improving us, and that has to be enough.

[EddieC]

Bullshit.

A strong Liverpool he took over? Finishing with 60 points and awful in Europe from 2002 onwards? Two of the best players were Owen and Kewell, the former leaving as soon as Rafa arrived and the latter never fit. Look back at that squad from 2003/04 and it was light years behind where we are now.

Rafa needs to challenge for the league next season, true. But win it when Chelsea have spent three times as much money and Ferguson has had more money and more time? No. He can only keep improving us, and that has to be enough.

You beat me to it

There is no way we were in a strong position when Rafa took over, he had a hell of a lot of work to do & has so far done it well. We do need to be challenging for the title next season, but it's not a case of win it or get sacked. Every team needs that little bit of luck as well as skill to win the league, you can never know in advance if things are gonna go your way throughout the season with regards to injuries, refereeing decisions etc. As long as we're still in contention right to the end of the season then I will be happy even if we don't win it, if we do this & the right luck comes our way then we could end up with number 19 next year.

[clint_call01]

Next season rafa must Challange  for title (2nd), I would be happy . We win the league next year I would be much happier!!!
IRWT. 

[crouchinho]

Doesnt HAVE TO win it, just challenge for it and I'll be stoked.

[The Invisible Man]

And to add to what I said earlier, if he were to win the Champions League again, I'd be happy with another top 4 finish. Yes, we'd rather win the league, but we're not so stupid surely as to turn our noses up at a 6th European Cup?

[crouchinho]

And to add to what I said earlier, if he were to win the Champions League again, I'd be happy with another top 4 finish. Yes, we'd rather win the league, but we're not so stupid surely as to turn our noses up at a 6th European Cup?

Too right. The CL is more prestigous than the PL in all respect.

[Rafa La Bamba]

Doesnt HAVE TO win it, just challenge for it and I'll be stoked.

No, we need to be the team we once were.. why accept 2nd best? No winner accepts 2nd best. Thing is we've no improvement in the league in the last 3 seasons, so has he taken us as far as he can? Next season will do the talking.

3rd or 4th would be unacceptable, 2nd would be just about acceptable but again managers get sacked when they don't win silverware. Rafa must win a major trophy next season but we'll see how much he is given to spend in the summer!

[lil cisse]

No, we need to be the team we once were.. why accept 2nd best? No winner accepts 2nd best. Thing is we've no improvement in the league in the last 3 seasons, so has he taken us as far as he can? Next season will do the talking.

3rd or 4th would be unacceptable, 2nd would be just about acceptable but again managers get sacked when they don't win silverware. Rafa must win a major trophy next season but we'll see how much he is given to spend in the summer!

If this is the case why does the title of the thread suggest one thing and the content of the first post suggest something else.

MUST win the prem and then 'As much as I love Rafa Benitez and want him to carry on with us, he must win something and challenge next season!'

By what the title of the thread is that part should say must win the prem, if we dont want second best who cares about challenging it should say he must win the league next season no just challenge. And as for never having challenged I still to this day dont get how people say the mancs challenged the season they finish 8 points behind chelsea and we finished 1 point behind the mancs but apparently we didnt challenge, whats the difference in that one point gap.

I just want us to challenge, I dont think he should go if he doesnt win the prem next season just want to see us challenge for it to be honest.

[Poolgiants]

There's no reason Benitez can't challenge for the league next year. You win a league by beating the Portsmouths, Sunderlands and Wigans  etc.. home and away week in week out. Even if you only draw with the ManUres and Chelseas you can still win the league by being consistent in wiping away the trash of the league. Ferguson has been a master of consistency against the trash teams most seasons and that's why even in 2006 when ManUre had a poor season they amassed 83 points. Even playing crap they beat the lower teams easily and that's what we have to learn to do. That is what Benitez has so far failed to do at Anfield and thus we have not even challenged.

But if Benitez persists next season with "attackers" like Kuyt and Veronin then we won't win a league. Those guys would barely keep a relegation team from the drop with their lack of firepower. People are going on about Babel, Benayoun and Kuyt getting 10 or 11 goals. But how many times did they get us a winner when we needed one against the Man Citys awaty, the Portmouths away, the Blackburns away, the Wigans at home?

We have scored a lot of goals this season on paper but the reality is when we needed matchwinners to keep us in contention for the league we only had two we can trust - Torres and Gerrard. We need more QUALITY attacking firepower and if Benitez doesn't use his money wisely then next season will be his last.

[The Invisible Man]

You win a league by beating the Portsmouths... etc.. home and away week in week out.

Eh? How many teams win at Portsmouth? United lost there last year and drew this year.

Man Utd also lost at Man City, so not sure what you're getting at. All successful sides lose a handful of games they should win on paper.

But if Benitez persists next season with "attackers" like Kuyt and Veronin then we won't win a league. Those guys would barely keep a relegation team from the drop with their lack of firepower. People are going on about Babel, Benayoun and Kuyt getting 10 or 11 goals. But how many times did they get us a winner when we needed one against the Man Citys awaty, the Portmouths away, the Blackburns away, the Wigans at home?

Voronin barely featured, so why mention him? - he's a reserve.

Kuyt was poor as a striker this season until the new year. But since he moved out wide he's been an important player. Yes, he didn't score many in the league, but got crucial goals against Chelsea and Arsenal, and also Inter Milan. So take off the blinkers - he does a good job. He gets more goals from out wide than a lot of players and he gives the team balance by getting back to defend as well as pushing forward. He gets into good positions when drifting infield.

Babel, meanwhile, is a brilliant young player who will only get better.

[Chico Banderas]

Its all too easy to demand the prem when ignoring what teams where up against... The other top teams have spent serious money season after season or have had managers there for over 10 years. As we improve they improve also. For us its about bridging the gap to compete and challenge which Raffa has steadily been doing.. For them its all about making a few world class editions to already strong teams..
We've had to rebuild with Mid-table money!!
I know its an old argument but seriously, manure and chelski man for man sh*t on us for world class players and have done for a while..
If Raffa for a couple of seasons had access to the Villa's, Eto's, Messi's and co and still couldn't deliver I'd be the first to recognise his failure's..

[Poolgiants]

Eh? How many teams win at Portsmouth? United lost there last year and drew this year.

Man Utd also lost at Man City, so not sure what you're getting at. All successful sides lose a handful of games they should win on paper.

Portsmouth are an example. The point is pretty obvious; you have to beat the trashy teams home and away to win the league. Drawing with the big 3 teams will not stop you challenging if you beat the rest consistently.  Chelsea will have amassed 87 points this season despite drawing twice with Liverpool and losing away to ManUre and Arse. So do the Maths mate. Beat the lesser teams in the league and you'll challenge for the league even if your results against the top sides isnt perfect.

Voronin barely featured, so why mention him? - he's a reserve.

Veronin barely featured because he got injured and because he's sh*t. We need better cover up front than a player better suited to Bolton. Houllier had Owen, Anelka, Heskey and Litmanen in 2002 and we need that sort of depth now too. If Houllier could get those kind of strikers within budet Benitez should be able to do better to.

Kuyt was poor as a striker this season until the new year. But since he moved out wide he's been an important player. Yes, he didn't score many in the league, but got crucial goals against Chelsea and Arsenal, and also Inter Milan. So take off the blinkers - he does a good job. He gets more goals from out wide than a lot of players and he gives the team balance by getting back to defend as well as pushing forward. He gets into good positions when drifting infield.

Kuyt has got one goal in open play in the league all season. Now anyone who wants us to win the league will not advocate Dirk Kuyt being in our starting 11 next season. He did well in Europe and maybe will be useful there next season. But in the league we need a better player in that position and nothing could be more obvious.

[The Invisible Man]

Veronin barely featured because he got injured and because he's sh*t. We need better cover up front than a player better suited to Bolton. Houllier had Owen, Anelka, Heskey and Litmanen in 2002 and we need that sort of depth now too. If Houllier could get those kind of strikers within budet Benitez should be able to do better to.

Er, Owen was already at the club when Houllier arrived. He chose to let his contract run down under Houllier and had already decided to leave before Benitez arrived. So Houllier lost us Owen, rather than finding him.

Anelka was on loan. Houllier opted not to sign him on a permanent deal, more fool him.

Heskey cost £11m, or about £20m by today's money. He did okay, but he was hardly a resounding success.

Litmanen was free because he was physically past it; he barely played for us because he was always injured, which is why he left Barcelona. Great player on paper, but offered us very little as rarely played.

So what's your point? Torres is better than the lot of them, btw, and Crouch is better than Heskey. Kuyt, meanwhile, has scored more goals in two years at the club than Litmanen did. And as much as I loved Jari and don't rate Voronin that highly, Voronin has done no worse than Litmanen, who perhaps wasn't given much of a chance, but only had a few excellent matches.

Yes, we need more depth up front, but it's disingenuous to say Houllier did well to get those players on a budget when the only success was inherited!

Kuyt has got one goal in open play in the league all season.

Of course. But against PREMIERSHIP sides - and two of the best at that - he scored crucial CL goals from the right wing. He got 12 league goals the season before, so he's a good option to use from the wing. He can score against Premiership defences - he's like Ljungberg in that he score goals when starting out wide.

Maybe we can get better than Kuyt, but this "we won't win the league with players like X, Y or Z" is rubbish. You need players like Kuyt. United have had their Phil Nevilles, Darren Fletchers, Wes Browns and Parks. I have no worries if Kuyt plays on the right for us next season.

Portsmouth are an example. The point is pretty obvious; you have to beat the trashy teams home and away to win the league.

Yeah, I know it was an example. But a sh*t one. The fact you called Portsmouth "trashy" shows your ignorance.

[The Fallen Soldier]

Im not even going to bother to respond much other than to say HOW FUCKING LONG DID IT TAKE THAT RED NOSE ALCHOLIC TWAT AT SCUM UNITED TO WIN HIS FIRST TITLE THEN.. have a f**king word with ya self will ya starting posts with this kind of topic is about as thoughtless as it gets honestly

[Poolgiants]

Er, Owen was already at the club when Houllier arrived. He chose to let his contract run down under Houllier and had already decided to leave before Benitez arrived. So Houllier lost us Owen, rather than finding him.

Anelka was on loan. Houllier opted not to sign him on a permanent deal, more fool him.

Heskey cost £11m, or about £20m by today's money. He did okay, but he was hardly a resounding success.

Litmanen was free because he was physically past it; he barely played for us because he was always injured, which is why he left Barcelona. Great player on paper, but offered us very little as rarely played.

So what's your point? Torres is better than the lot of them, btw, and Crouch is better than Heskey. Kuyt, meanwhile, has scored more goals in two years at the club than Litmanen did. And as much as I loved Jari and don't rate Voronin that highly, Voronin has done no worse than Litmanen, who perhaps wasn't given much of a chance, but only had a few excellent matches.

Yes, we need more depth up front, but it's disingenuous to say Houllier did well to get those players on a budget when the only success was inherited!

Yeah he inherited Owen, but Torres cost 20 million which Houllier never had to spend.  Anelka was/is better than Crouch. Let Benitez bring in a quality striker on loan then if we can't buy them. That's what ManUre have done with Tevez. Heskey and Kuyt are two cheeks of the same arse. Limited in the extreme.

Litmanen was a FAR better option off the bench than Veronin. Houller didn't give Litmanen damn all starts or he'd have outscored Kuyt. Litmanen was quality; Kuyt isn't. So apart from Torres Houllier's strikers were better than what we have now. But of course you're entitled to your opinion. Kuyt played for Feyenoord and Veronin for Leverkusen whilst Litmanen came from Barcelona and Anelka had played for Real Madrid and Arsenal so the truth is pretty clear of who was the higher quality players.

Of course. But against PREMIERSHIP sides - and two of the best at that - he scored crucial CL goals from the right wing. He got 12 league goals the season before, so he's a good option to use from the wing. He can score against Premiership defences - he's like Ljungberg in that he score goals when starting out wide.

Maybe we can get better than Kuyt, but this "we won't win the league with players like X, Y or Z" is rubbish. You need players like Kuyt. United have had their Phil Nevilles, Darren Fletchers, Wes Browns and Parks. I have no worries if Kuyt plays on the right for us next season.

I agree, Kuyt can be used as a SQUAD player like Fletcher or Park and that's fine. But he isn't good enough to make the first 11 of any of the top three sides so why then should Liverpool be expected to carry a player like Kuyt week in week out and think we should win a league? Anyone who can't see Kuyt isn't good enough for a championship winning first 11 will keep coming 3rd or 4th. He scored 12 league goals last year as a striker and this season you said he was poor as a striker so had to be moved out to the right. So make up your mind where you expect him to get these league goals. One from open play all season in the league, as striker or wide right, tells its own story. He's scored in Europe so give him games in Europe, not the Prem. "Maybe" we can do better than Kuyt is funny.

Yeah, I know it was an example. But a sh*t one. The fact you called Portsmouth "trashy" shows your ignorance.

Any of the teams below the top 4 are 2nd rate. Didn't you read Torres saying as much about the Premiership being inferior to La Liga except for the top four? And he's perfectly correct as anyone who watches Spanish football will know. So it's your ignorance mate not to realise we should be able to beat all these teams home and away without making them out to be something they're clearly not.

[FIVESTAR]

next season will be much the same as this, some poor results in the league due to not having a good enough squad we wont be able to make up the difference, manure and chelski will prob have a bigger budget than us this summer to go with there all ready better squad. So he will rotate for the bigger games and while doing that loose ground.On a positive I see arsenal falling behind so third is up for grabs

[paulrobbo]

I don't think it's a case of Rafa 'winning' the league. More launch a title challenge, I.e. still able to win the title within 2-3 games. I think many fans would take 2nd as a major improvement.

[donrafael]

To start this thread with NO consideration - at all -  of what the hell happens above Rafa in the club and what state the boadroom is in come August is very STRANGE... so strange in fact that I can't be bothered with it.

I.R.W.T.

[The Invisible Man]

Heskey and Kuyt are two cheeks of the same arse.

And having read your posts, you're the hole in between...

Btw, who is Veronin?

He scored 12 league goals last year as a striker and this season you said he was poor as a striker so had to be moved out to the right. So make up your mind where you expect him to get these league goals. 

My point was that Kuyt can score goals from the right, as he has proved against Arsenal and Chelsea - top ENGLISH defences. And Inter Milan, a top Italian one.

He lost his way up front this season, and his confidence suffered, but last season with 12 from open play he showed he can finish when he gets himself into the right positions. Whether it was Europe or the Premiership makes little difference - he's a good goalscorer. Not the very best, but a good one. And using that from the right is a good idea. He has also set up a lot of goals, which you'd see if you removed your blinkers.

Yeah he inherited Owen, but Torres cost 20 million which Houllier never had to spend.  Anelka was/is better than Crouch. Let Benitez bring in a quality striker on loan then if we can't buy them.

Tevez was an extreme example - and it cost them £10m to loan him, plus high wages. He also wanted to go there.

How many players of Tevez's quality are waiting to be loaned? Barely any, if any at all. Maybe in your dreamland there are all over the place?

And as you said, Benitez HAD to spend £20m on Torres, so a large part of his budget went on one player we needed; Houllier had Owen.

[Poolgiants]

 
How obvious can it be when looking at a team who needs to improve to challenge for the title that a player like Dirk Kuyt isn't good enough for the first 11? How anyone who knows anything about football can argue this point is amazing to me after the season Kuyt has had. Igor Biscan had good games in Europe too in 2005; that didn't change the fact he wasn't good enough for our greater ambitions.

Tell me, Einstein, if we sell Kuyt tomorrow what teams will want him? ManUre? Arsenal? Chelsea? Real Madrid?

[EddieC]

How obvious can it be when looking at a team who needs to improve to challenge for the title that a player like Dirk Kuyt isn't good enough for the first 11? How anyone who knows anything about football can argue this point is amazing to me after the season Kuyt has had. Igor Biscan had good games in Europe too in 2005; that didn't change the fact he wasn't good enough for our greater ambitions.

Tell me, Einstein, if we sell Kuyt tomorrow what teams will want him? ManUre? Arsenal? Chelsea? Real Madrid?

As ever, Poolgiants has got it 100% spot on. Sell all our hard workers, we need a team of 11 flair players.

[Poolgiants]

Ray Houghton was a hard worker, Eddie.  Tevez is a hard worker.

You need hard work and QUALITY to be in a side that wants to win a title.

Kuyt only has hard work and very little quality. Therefore we need to be looking for a player with hard work and QUALITY.

1 league goal in open play all season is all you need to smoke in your pipe. How many did Tevez get with hard work added? That's thw quality we need to be looking for.

[EddieC]

On the flipside though, how many goals have we scored as a result of Dirk winning the ball back in dangerous areas? Or how often have we regained possession because the opposition defender has ended up hoofing the ball due to Kuyt not giving him any time in possession? It's not all about goals, and Dirk has a lot to offer the team.

[Poolgiants]

Eddie, you either want Liverpool to win the title or not. If you do then you analyse the weakest point in our team and strenghten from there. You surely accept there's many better attacking players than Kuyt who could play out wide or up front if Torres was injured. Hard work is a bonus in an attacker; goals are a pre-requisite.
.
We have a very good defensive record and one of the best defensive midfielders in the world. So for all Kuyt's hard work we don't keep clean sheets because of him. We kept a clean sheet at Portmouth but dropped points because we didn't score. Same away to Blackburn. Same away to Man City.

Our attack, bar Torres and Gerrard, let us down this season in the league and Kuyt's record is the worst. So we need a better player in Kuyt's position to turn those draws into wins.

Kuyt will be a useful squad player. But any more than that over a long period and we'll suffer.