Are we uncool because Rafa doesn't buy glamourous players like Chelsea does?

[Darth Joe]

I have a problem with the attitude of a certain type of LFC fans that have appeared of late. I'm very sorry if anyone's offended but as a fan I believe I have a right to speak out.

We have just finished another season, this time at fourth place. We are again trophyless, we lost to Chelsea in the CL semi finals, lost to a bloody championship side in the FA cup. We had the most embarrassing board room fiasco in football history, thus unsettling the team a bit in mid season. We had a good assistant manager leaving us halfway. However, on a brighter note, we witnessed the brilliance of Fernando Torres and Ryan Babel in their debut season, another golden glove award for Pepe Reina, and we blasted a massive 119(?) goals into the opposing net.

Although 4th, it should be remarked that we secured 76 to last season's 68 points.

And now that we're entering the summer hols, talks of future signings are rife. David Villa, Gareth Barry, Mancini and Quaresma are few the names mentioned about.

OK, don't get me wrong. I am all for a major signing to make it into the squad. Fernando Torres showed what a signing like him could bring to the squad. But it seems that some people are getting it wrong and are actually naming their own "DREAM TEAM" squad. Names including some of the most unknown yet supposedly continental talents. You know, maybe someone on the Man City forum had his wish come true when Sven went on a shopping spree and bought the most baffling set of players ever. Elano, Geovanni, Rolando Bianchi etc. They had a false alarm of a start but predictably crumbled halfway and ending the season with a sorry 8-1 drubbing by Boro.

Spending another 20 million pounds on a single player the way forward for LFC? Chelsea paid 30 million pounds for a CL losing finalist to warm their bench and I must say what a warm bench they have. Roman Abramovich has set in a new trend in football and that is the most in thing of the moment is to have your squad filled with the most glamourous set of players. And this mentality has seeped into other teams and unfortunately, some LFC fans are dreaming of having a glamourous squad of their own, at the extent of ditching LFC's present players who are not as famous I suppose. Some bugger on the forum said "I hate Benayoun, except for the time when he scored a hattrick". Maybe because Benayoun isn't your typical Pepsi team footballer but he has done remarkably well as a backup player and certainly he deserves more credit than being hated unless he scores a hattrick every single match. What kind of mentality is this? We support the team through thick and thin.

I don't want a team with a new set of totally different players come new season, it's only going to upset the squad's balance and the present squad needs more time  to solidify. And please, enough of Ricardo Quaresma, the guy is sh*te. If you still remember we trashed Porto 4-1 and in that match he was planting corn at the left side of the field while his team mates were working their ass off trying to cope with our players. A player with good technique but has a low fighting spirit does not deserve to be in LFC.

Maybe too many kids are playing Football Manager.

[Shoelessboy]

I agree in part, since the new investment some fans seem to have gone all 'Fantasy Football' on us but what personally I do feel a few big signings would be good for the club but only if they can have the same impact as some of the signings did this year. I'm not expecting a Torres every season, even a Babel like performance in their first season would be good because it would show presence. What I would like to see is more established players come in, it's all well and good buying youth but they don't help the current situation. We need players that can make a immediate impact next season.

On the Benayoun front, I would like to see a bit more from him but we have to take into account that he rarely played this season, one of those performances being a hat trick.

[robbyr]

some great points there mate...we need david villa, if we get rid of crouch we need somebody tall like abadayour....

hi ...... cant seem to do a new post so here goes....... THIS IS IMPORTANT

im sick and tired of LFC baiting on the footy forum on the mirror pages... www.mirror.co.uk and go to forums tab

please support the small number of LFC fans who constantly get baited on their pages, they are very anti LFC     and I think they need a few people to put the numbers right and balance all of the arguments

by the way this is a great forum

[County_Rd_Kopite]

I have a problem with the attitude of a certain type of LFC fans that have appeared of late. I'm very sorry if anyone's offended but as a fan I believe I have a right to speak out.

We have just finished another season, this time at fourth place. We are again trophyless, we lost to Chelsea in the CL semi finals, lost to a bloody championship side in the FA cup. We had the most embarrassing board room fiasco in football history, thus unsettling the team a bit in mid season. We had a good assistant manager leaving us halfway. However, on a brighter note, we witnessed the brilliance of Fernando Torres and Ryan Babel in their debut season, another golden glove award for Pepe Reina, and we blasted a massive 119(?) goals into the opposing net.

Although 4th, it should be remarked that we secured 76 to last season's 68 points.

And now that we're entering the summer hols, talks of future signings are rife. David Villa, Gareth Barry, Mancini and Quaresma are few the names mentioned about.

OK, don't get me wrong. I am all for a major signing to make it into the squad. Fernando Torres showed what a signing like him could bring to the squad. But it seems that some people are getting it wrong and are actually naming their own "DREAM TEAM" squad. Names including some of the most unknown yet supposedly continental talents. You know, maybe someone on the Man City forum had his wish come true when Sven went on a shopping spree and bought the most baffling set of players ever. Elano, Geovanni, Rolando Bianchi etc. They had a false alarm of a start but predictably crumbled halfway and ending the season with a sorry 8-1 drubbing by Boro.

Spending another 20 million pounds on a single player the way forward for LFC? Chelsea paid 30 million pounds for a CL losing finalist to warm their bench and I must say what a warm bench they have. Roman Abramovich has set in a new trend in football and that is the most in thing of the moment is to have your squad filled with the most glamourous set of players. And this mentality has seeped into other teams and unfortunately, some LFC fans are dreaming of having a glamourous squad of their own, at the extent of ditching LFC's present players who are not as famous I suppose. Some bugger on the forum said "I hate Benayoun, except for the time when he scored a hattrick". Maybe because Benayoun isn't your typical Pepsi team footballer but he has done remarkably well as a backup player and certainly he deserves more credit than being hated unless he scores a hattrick every single match. What kind of mentality is this? We support the team through thick and thin.

I don't want a team with a new set of totally different players come new season, it's only going to upset the squad's balance and the present squad needs more time  to solidify. And please, enough of Ricardo Quaresma, the guy is sh*te. If you still remember we trashed Porto 4-1 and in that match he was planting corn at the left side of the field while his team mates were working their ass off trying to cope with our players. A player with good technique but has a low fighting spirit does not deserve to be in LFC.

Maybe too many kids are playing Football Manager.

Excellent post Joe, and I agree in full!

As you said, this squad needs to gel more and solidify before it can go onto bigger things! Even if we pull another £20m signing out of our sleeves, I can't see them settling as quickly as Torres did, so if we were to gain success off the back of that next season then it will be down to the work Rafa has done this season!

We also need to strip some of the deadwood from the squad now, like we should have donea little more last summer, and build a properly frightening squad of players that will have United and Chelsea crying to their bank managers!

We're doing exactly what all Liverpool fans want! Building a squad capable of winning the league year after year rather than a Mourinho style quick fix! Funny isn't it, Chelsea are up there at the end of the season under Grant but I actually heard people applauding Mourinho's input into the squad! If I was Avram Grant, I'd be pissed off as the achievements this season are being undermined as Mourinho's legacy still living on! Personally, I agree with Rafa that Abramovich is the strongest factor in Chelsea's 'success!' Anyway, I'm flying off topic sharpish....

The squad's balance now is very good! We've a strong set of central defenders, especially when Agger is back! The midfield is looking sharp, and hopefully when Lucas gets on the weights and bulks up a little for this league, we'll be looking a formidable force! Up front, we've got Torres..... Who else do you need?

A few full backs, a replacement for Xabi should he leave and someone to match Torres' excellence on that frontline and we'll have many a cracking weekend next season!

[Shoelessboy]

im sick and tired of LFC baiting on the footy forum on the mirror pages... www.mirror.co.uk and go to forums tab

please support the small number of LFC fans who constantly get baited on their pages, they are very anti LFC     and I think they need a few people to put the numbers right and balance all of the arguments

by the way this is a great forum

Thats what you get for going on the Mirror's site (only joking mate, im on it now to join and slam the scum)

[crouchinho]

Agree with Ricardo bloody Quarsema! Those who love him, watch Liverpool v Porto please! FFS , he is a moody 2nd rate Ronaldo.

Top post mate. Agreed with it all, not to mention those FM names.

[EddieC]

Top post as always Joe, just get yourself posting a bit more regularly fella!

I'd agree to an extent that we don't need a team full of superstars, as you rightly stated it hasn't guaranteed a winning formula at Chelsea, but I do think we need a couple of really dangerous attacking players. It is the nature of the game that it is a lot easier to spot someone with good attacking skills than it is to spot a good defender, and that is why you rarely see really threatening attacking players being uncovered for little money. So I do think we are going to need a couple of star players yet, but unlike some I don't just want them here because they're a 'name', I want them here because they're the right players to take us forward.

[Semple]

Brilliant post mate

u have said what I have been saying all along

[donrafael]

The only uncool thing about Liverpool relative to Chavski is our finances, while being considered a "top 4" club.

We must sort out our boardroom/control battle. Fast.

[Dadorious]

Good post Joe matey well said, many people have gone wild with listing their own dream teams of so called "superstars" from Championship Maager. We do need another marquee player in attack who can chip in with 20 goals and a genuine left back As for the rest we have a strong squad that has balanced out well.

[pragmatic]

An intelligent and thoughtful post.
I have to say this though, even if we signed all the greatest talent on earth it may well still not win us the title. Look at Barcelona and the talent on show there yet for 2 seasons they have been like us trophyless. To win any title one of the most important things is to restrict players egos and make sure they understand their place in a machine, they must remember they are a cog not the limelight. Secondly the mentality must be able to cope with the extreme pressure which will be placed upon their shoulders, thirdly strength in depth is needed you must have at least 2 world class players for every position or have available adaptable players who can fill any positon in a world class way.

Its important to also understand the fact that although we may well build a very strong squad with talent throughout, the fact of the matter is belief, confidence and understanding which are also of pivotal importance to a player and team mentality, we must strive for the times when we dont play well, to still have the ability to grind out results and win games, which we have drawn or lost especially like this season.
(If the games we drew this season had been ground out to results we would have been 10 points better off)

Quaresma is a name that I hear sounded out again and again and again, and I dont think spending that kind of money on him would actually improve the squad, firstly because I dont rate him and secondly because spending that kind of money on one player, who in my opion will take sometime to settle would be counter productive. I think Rafa has it in a nutshell we need british players now those who are used to the pressures of the EPL and Gareth Barry is going to be one hell of a signing if it comes off. English or Scouse backbone is whats needed to shore things up not dragging players live Villa here for outrageous sums, and although Nando has done well it doesnt mean that another iberian player will do well here, look what happend to spanish eric(morientes).

Another thing to take note is the anti LFC media here, Sky, The S*n, NOTW, The Times, they are all out for taking us apart and placing pressure on us as much as they can because they are all owned by one man who has made it his lifes work to try and destroy our clubs credibility and integrity. Sky TV make the rules now not the FA and if they decide to load a shedload of match congestion upon us they will because they dont want to see LFC win the EPL ever because SKY and murdoch see that as their little baby and they cant have a S*n hating club win it. Some might call me paranoid but some of the reason why we havent won the EPL has to lye around this theory.

Another thing to note is Abromoviche is a bottomless pit of money, we arent, we have to make do with what we have and what we can afford, which in the long term will make winning the Title even more sweet because we will win it on less resources than Manure and Chavshite. And having said that I think that makes us cooler than both those clubs because we are a peoples club it is a family crest not a badge, we are the rebels who will not conform to what the Murdoch media machine want, this makes us James Dean, Geronimo, and Crazy horse all rolled into one. We have history like no other we have passion like no other, we have the best supporters in the world who sing and chant even when the chips are down, we never give up we never lay down and we dont know when we are beaten. How many other clubs can say that?? We are the cool that makes the word have meaning. And that is a fact noone can deny..

[MsGerrard]

Some very good posts in this thread.

We all know it's going to be very difficult to compete with the likes of Chelsea's never ending pit of money and the pulling power of Manchester united.

The thing is, you can have all the best players in the world playing for you, but if they don't play together as a team then you've got nothing except for a bunch of posing prima donna's

I have confidence in Rafa to pick the right players for Liverpool Football Club whether there 'cool'  and 'glamorous' or not !

We all know what happens when you buy class.........Torre s has raised the bar for all foreigners coming into the EPL this next season, they will all be expected to produce the kind of form that he has over the course of a very difficult time in this Liverpool team, under the circumstances I actually think we've done bloody marvellous.

Mind you, we all know that Torres is a one off, and there's no other around like him.

Roll on next season I say.............I for one, can't wait, and that's before the dust has barely settled on this one.

I should have been born a man

[Ra Ra Rafa]

I'm glad we are no dream team wannabe's.

Chelsea's problem is that they'll be buying average players for the price of double figures... Bosingwa won't improve them that much, he doesn't have a patch on Alves.

Going back to the post, I'm seriously happy that Rafa is building us a team rather than just instantly buying us one. It's nice to see the progress made year after year but with Chelsea whats so special about seeing a club nearly in administration and then all of a sudden turn into a club who can buy near enough anyone?

My mate is Chelsea fan and when they won the Premiership he said it didn't feel that special due to Chelsea just buying it instantly like that. They didn't really earn it in the terms of building a squad but more to buying one.

I always think, David Villa this, Sergio Aguero that but at the end of the day you have to find the right balance in the team - like Arsenal have done.

Arsenal don't have a dream team but they certainly play like one when they are on fire.. this is due to Wenger buying the right players rather than listening to the fans shouting at him to buy Quaresma or Villa.

Wenger is a better manager than Ferguson, just look at the amount Ferguson has spent compared to Wenger.. it's such a massive difference.

[lil cisse]

I think we do need money.

I dont want us to be a chelsea flinging money at any and everyone but I think money is the difference between top 4 and the lower teams.

It takes alot to win the prem but financial backing cant be overlooked. Buying all the superstars will not work but buying some to strengthen areas that have been considered weak for a long time most likely would e.g. LM, RM.

Im probably the only one on here but I rate quaresma extremely highly. He has a talent that you rarely see in football and although he has his flaws who doesnt. I think the only thing that holds him back is his attitude but that is because he doesnt have a manager that is changing that. The whole diving thing is in my opinion largely down to the league he is in, it common in the portguese, spanish AND italian leagues as refereeing is different in those leagues. One of the reasons the prem is sso tough is due to the physical aspect and refs wont just stop the game all the time like they do in other leagues. It is alot different to the way it seems because I can guarantee I could count the amount of people on here who watch portugese fotball regularly on my hands.

It isnt acceptable but it really is common in their league alot of players do it and its more likely players do than dont in that league as well as the others I mentioned. Even defenders dive over there and that is saying alot. He is a very underrated player but I think thats just down to the individual, the one thing that bothers me is that people dont mind ronaldo used to be exactly the same the only reason he changed is because fergie is his manager, and ronaldo has the exact same flaws quaresma has yet recieves nowhere near the criticism ricardo does for those things.

Watch ronaldo in a good few games this season and he has been utter garbage but a goal will paper over the cracks or the mancs winning the game will do it and people will ignore his crap performance. I know quaresma had a bad game against us but ronaldo has been doing the same for years, im yet to see him have a convincing game against us and although I think he's a phenominal player I think quaresma has more in his locker. his goal against belgium is what he is all about and will always be one of the best ever scored in my books its amazing.

In terms of big spending it is essential and I dont think barry is premiership winning quality, I would welcome him with open arms if he joined but I am not convinced yet. Money clearly matters, just needs to be spent intellegently and not spent on anyone and everyone. I think rafa would do well with some proper funds, he knows who to buy when it comes to big money spending.

[ayrton77]

From The Times website:

Luis Fabiano high on Manchester United transfer hit-list

Sir Alex Ferguson has been promised whatever funds he needs in the transfer market this summer to maintain Manchester United as the dominant force in the Barclays Premier League. United won a second successive league title on Sunday and hope to add the Champions League crown by beating Chelsea in Moscow next week, but David Gill, the chief executive, has assured Ferguson that he will be given the money to buy reinforcements, such as Luís Fabiano, the prolific Seville and Brazil forward.

Ferguson’s main priority is to sign a centre forward to share the goalscoring burden with Wayne Rooney, Carlos Tévez and Cristiano Ronaldo. The United manager has lost patience with Louis Saha, who started only six Premier League games this season, and is considering players such as Dimitar Berbatov, the Tottenham Hotspur forward, and Klaas-Jan Huntelaar, of Ajax, but the name emanating from Old Trafford yesterday was that of Fabiano, who has scored 33 goals in Spain’s La Liga for Seville this season.

United are not yet thought to have spoken to Seville about Fabiano, 27, but they have been informed of his availability by a third party and have scouted him extensively in recent weeks, with Ferguson having sought reports from his brother, Martin, who is the club’s chief European scout, Jim Lawlor, the chief scout, and Mike Phelan, the first-team coach. Their interest will hinge on a dispute with Seville, with Fabiano and his representatives convinced that he can be bought for £8.6 million. The Spanish club are standing by a prohibitive £46.8 million valuation that they claim is in his contract.

If Fabiano is available at a cut-price fee, United will make their move, but, if not, they will consider other targets. Ferguson admires Berbatov, who is eager to leave Tottenham, but he is said to be unsure about the Bulgarian’s workrate and his ability to perform against top-class opponents.

With doubts over the future of Gary Neville, who did not make a league appearance this season, and with Gerard Piqué angling for a move to Barcelona, defensive reinforcements are another priority. United remain keen on Philipp Lahm, the Bayern Munich full back, who is also interesting Barcelona, and are monitoring the situation of Micah Richards, the England defender, at Manchester City.

Wilson Palacios and Luis Antonio Valencia, the Wigan Athletic pair, and Miguel Veloso, the Sporting Lisbon midfield player, have also been linked with moves to Old Trafford, with Gill making clear last night that United are “in a position where, if we can improve it, we will.”

The other priorities are to secure a long-term contract for Patrice Evra and a permanent deal to sign Tévez.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I know I'm going slightly off-topic by posting this article, but it does have some relevance. I, for one, couldn't give a monkey's if we signed a team full of non-pretty players if they were to bring us trophies. The problem is that we simply cannot match the spending power of Manchester Utd and Chelsea in the current situation the club is in. We know that these two teams both have a blank chequebook in the transfer market, and whilst it is obviously still difficult to choose players who will effectively meld together correctly to form a team on the field, and the pressure that follows once this becomes public knowledge, this situation is clearly preferable to the one we are in.

Instead of having an A-list of players that we would love to come and play for Liverpool, it seems that Benitez is forced to pick and choose from lesser-known or youthful, unproven talent rather than those he would actually want if he has the means to buy them. Unlike these other "top" teams, our club seems to operate on a system whereby any buy is covered buy an equal (or almost) sale, making it difficult to create a squad that has the depth of talent to challenge for several trophies during one particular season.

Obviously at any club players come and go, but the situation at Liverpool seems as dangerous as walking a tightrope, or perhaps plugging holes in a dam. If we want to cover a position by buying a new player we are obliged to sell another, plugging one leak but starting another, in the hope that the one created will be less damaging. Maybe not the best metaphor, but you see my point?

Whilst people would point out that we have effectively snapped up two excellent players in Torres and Mascherano, with the price-tag that goes with them, we have, however, missed out on such players as Modric and Boswinga, already this season by being out-bidded by other English clubs, and not necessarily the top two either! We can also note that Ajax's Klass has been linked to United, so he could be the next name to be crossed off our targets on the summer transfer board... I have confidence that Rafa can bring us players to improve our squad and make it better than this season's, but I find it difficult, almost impossible, to imagine that with the constraints he has regarding transfers that we can challenge effectively for the title.

It is becoming clear that Gareth Barry is our number one target for the summer, and despite all his qualities it is difficult to imagine he can make us the EPL champions... it even seems that should Villa push his price up a few more million then he would slip through our fingers. A situation that would never happen at United or Chelsea. As has been mentioned earlier in the thread, money is (almost) everything in English football nowadays, and until we have the power of the other teams to spend like they do, the best we can hope for is an effective team who plays decent football and challenges for the Champion's League qualifier spots. For me the saddest thing of all is that if we compare Rafa's team to the others we are at the same level for cup matches, but lacking the killer touch over 38 matches, and it really makes you think what he could do if he had the cash to back him up.

A quick note back on-topic: Uncool we may be, but not in my eyes, as I would rather watch a team of XI players who link together as a team rather than XI big babies who cry and squabble when things don't go their way, and compete more off the field for their advertising contracts and hair-gel publicity than on the field for their fans.

[sjkreds]

I have a problem with the attitude of a certain type of LFC fans that have appeared of late. I'm very sorry if anyone's offended but as a fan I believe I have a right to speak out.

We have just finished another season, this time at fourth place. We are again trophyless, we lost to Chelsea in the CL semi finals, lost to a bloody championship side in the FA cup. We had the most embarrassing board room fiasco in football history, thus unsettling the team a bit in mid season. We had a good assistant manager leaving us halfway. However, on a brighter note, we witnessed the brilliance of Fernando Torres and Ryan Babel in their debut season, another golden glove award for Pepe Reina, and we blasted a massive 119(?) goals into the opposing net.

Although 4th, it should be remarked that we secured 76 to last season's 68 points.

And now that we're entering the summer hols, talks of future signings are rife. David Villa, Gareth Barry, Mancini and Quaresma are few the names mentioned about.

OK, don't get me wrong. I am all for a major signing to make it into the squad. Fernando Torres showed what a signing like him could bring to the squad. But it seems that some people are getting it wrong and are actually naming their own "DREAM TEAM" squad. Names including some of the most unknown yet supposedly continental talents. You know, maybe someone on the Man City forum had his wish come true when Sven went on a shopping spree and bought the most baffling set of players ever. Elano, Geovanni, Rolando Bianchi etc. They had a false alarm of a start but predictably crumbled halfway and ending the season with a sorry 8-1 drubbing by Boro.

Spending another 20 million pounds on a single player the way forward for LFC? Chelsea paid 30 million pounds for a CL losing finalist to warm their bench and I must say what a warm bench they have. Roman Abramovich has set in a new trend in football and that is the most in thing of the moment is to have your squad filled with the most glamourous set of players. And this mentality has seeped into other teams and unfortunately, some LFC fans are dreaming of having a glamourous squad of their own, at the extent of ditching LFC's present players who are not as famous I suppose. Some bugger on the forum said "I hate Benayoun, except for the time when he scored a hattrick". Maybe because Benayoun isn't your typical Pepsi team footballer but he has done remarkably well as a backup player and certainly he deserves more credit than being hated unless he scores a hattrick every single match. What kind of mentality is this? We support the team through thick and thin.

I don't want a team with a new set of totally different players come new season, it's only going to upset the squad's balance and the present squad needs more time  to solidify. And please, enough of Ricardo Quaresma, the guy is sh*te. If you still remember we trashed Porto 4-1 and in that match he was planting corn at the left side of the field while his team mates were working their ass off trying to cope with our players. A player with good technique but has a low fighting spirit does not deserve to be in LFC.

Maybe too many kids are playing Football Manager.

I know everyone is saying it but
NAIL ON THE F***ing HEAD Darth joe!
F**k glamour players who whine like eto'o, zlatan etc.
Yes we want word class quality but we  need world class heart and commitment just as much. Torres is now the benchmark, he is world class, he loves the club the club loves him and he works very hard.\
He is the stereotype of player we need.

[donrafael]

I know everyone is saying it but
NAIL ON THE F***ing HEAD Darth joe!
F**k glamour players who whine like eto'o, zlatan etc.
Yes we want word class quality but we  need world class heart and commitment just as much. Torres is now the benchmark, he is world class, he loves the club the club loves him and he works very hard.\
He is the stereotype of player we need.

Eto'o is trouble off the park... let us PLEASE give him a wide berth.

Silva on the wing is what we need.

Babel delivering on potential is what we need... too!

[lil cisse]

Eto'o is trouble off the park... let us PLEASE give him a wide berth.

Silva on the wing is what we need.

Babel upfront is what we need... too!

[carrollfella]

we've only ever spent big on one player!!! FERNANDO TORRES! and look what he's done.... if we spent what our rivals spend every year we'd have the league sorted years ago... unfortunately our owners are and have always been tight c**ts!!!
if we bought one 20+ million pound player every summer we'd be doing well... unfortunately we tend to spend 40 million on 10 squad players.... why not buy 2 world class players now?? we have the squad, so lets have the first 11 now!!

[sjkreds]

Agree with Ricardo bloody Quarsema! Those who love him, watch Liverpool v Porto please! FFS , he is a moody 2nd rate Ronaldo.

Top post mate. Agreed with it all, not to mention those FM names.

Spot on about ricardo,
Its was ironic he was superb againist us in portugal, but shithouse and sulky at anfield ( a trait I think that another player fans talk about has aswell , berbatov, though he is not quite as bad, just a touch bipolar sometimes, sometimes he lifts the team, others he blasts team mates when play is not up to his standards or he just gives up and sulks) . We cant have the later, I've been a big fan of his ( quaresma), but my love of the committed player over the prima donna has driven me off players like him, we need players who play like fans, commited and with pure pleasure like frank ribery ( rafa if your browsing the thread, hint hint  )