Liverpool V Man U

The start of a new season in the prem in a few days.

How do you think we rate to ManU.

Here are my marks out of 10.

Managers;  Rafa 8, Ferguson 10, sorry to say, but he is a great manager.

GK, Reina 8, VDS 8, both good goalkeeps.

Defenders, Degen not sure 7, Agger 9, Skrytl 8, Carra9, Dossena 8 I hope.
Neville 6 to old, Brown 8, Ferdinand 9, Vidic 9, Evra 7.

Midfielders, Masch 9, Alonso 8, Gerrard 10, Babel 7, Yossi 8, Lucas 7.
Carrick 8, Hargreaves 7, Scholes 8 but getting a bit old now, Giggs 8 same a bit old, Nani 7, Anderson 7.

Forwards, Keane 8, Kuyt 7, Torres 10, Nemeth 8 I have given him this score but still has a lot to prove, Ngog 7 same a lot to prove, Voronin 6.
Ronaldo 10, Tevez 9, Rooney 7, Saha (he;ll prob leave) 6.

I think we're VERY close particularly if our young players come through as they appear to be doing and Degen and mainly Dossena can give us what we crave in their respective positions.

Liverpool midfield is a lot better, and that's where most of the games are won or lost.

Mentality is the big one, if we can get that right this year, we will win at home and draw at theres

What do you think.

I agree but I would put Anderson on an 8 he is a solid player. As for Voronin give him 6.5 after his goal the other night.

What about the twelth man?

Liverpool 10

Man U 7

It's not as simple as just rating our players against theirs, for one thats a very subjective way of measuring. Things that will influence the game is our ability to break down united, something we rarely did last season. Also Ferdinand did a fantastic job of keeping Torres quiet but if he can get an influence in the game, that could make all the difference. I think that, even with Torres, we are less clinical then United. The problem we have is that they can score from most positions on the field whereas they showed last season that if they can shut down Torres and Gerrard we have little left.

If we get a draw away from home thats not a bad result, I would be happy with that, obviously it would be better if we can win but progress is what I am looking at. At home a win would be a massive result but not losing is of the upmost importantance.

Oh and another thing, probably would help if Javier stayed on the pitch this time haha.

EDIT: I just want to add that if we can play Keane and Torres we might offer more of a problem

For me this match all comes down to the mentality factor, nothing else. I think we had a pretty good team last year, but look what happened: we cracked under the pressure and self-destructed, handed them the 3 points on a plate. Of course, I'm using their 3-0 victory as an example, because it showed everything that we do wrong going into these matches.

Not enough self-belief - I felt the players going into this match didn't believe they were going to win. It's sad to say, but they didn't look like they were relishing the challenge to take 3 points off our greatest rivals, they looked terribly stressed and under pressure. Of course they were going to feel the pressure, but I don't think they had the meantal strength to channel this into pulling out a world-class performance, this needs to change else we're always going to struggle in these games - the games that decide who will be crowned champion.

Mascherano cracked and got sent off, and I remember no-one doing anything to stop him complaining to the ref. We didn't play as a team, simple as that. It's not the individuals that will win a match like this IMHO, but the team working together as a whole, supporting one another. I think this is reflected by Ronaldo never having much success against us. What's missing is the confidence that we can do it, we definitely have the ability. Hopefully the 12th man will get behind our boys this year and we'll win - how sweet that will be - and in future matches we'll know we can beat them, we just need to break the losing cycle!

The start of a new season in the prem in a few days.

How do you think we rate to ManU.

Here are my marks out of 10.

Managers;  Rafa 8, Ferguson 10, sorry to say, but he is a great manager.

GK, Reina 8, VDS 8, both good goalkeeps.

Defenders, Degen not sure 7, Agger 9, Skrytl 8, Carra9, Dossena 8 I hope.
Neville 6 to old, Brown 8, Ferdinand 9, Vidic 9, Evra 7.

Midfielders, Masch 9, Alonso 8, Gerrard 10, Babel 7, Yossi 8, Lucas 7.
Carrick 8, Hargreaves 7, Scholes 8 but getting a bit old now, Giggs 8 same a bit old, Nani 7, Anderson 7.

Forwards, Keane 8, Kuyt 7, Torres 10, Nemeth 8 I have given him this score but still has a lot to prove, Ngog 7 same a lot to prove, Voronin 6.
Ronaldo 10, Tevez 9, Rooney 7, Saha (he;ll prob leave) 6.

I think we're VERY close particularly if our young players come through as they appear to be doing and Degen and mainly Dossena can give us what we crave in their respective positions.

Liverpool midfield is a lot better, and that's where most of the games are won or lost.

Mentality is the big one, if we can get that right this year, we will win at home and draw at theres

What do you think.

Your scores don't make sense?

Dossena, Degen and Nemeth cannot get a rating - as they could be anything from a 1-10 as we have no idea yet!

Rooney a 7 !!!! and Evra a 7 !!!!  A biased Pool Fan if ever I've seen one!

P.S. The Mancs won the double last season with that same team !

For me this match all comes down to the mentality factor, nothing else. I think we had a pretty good team last year, but look what happened: we cracked under the pressure and self-destructed, handed them the 3 points on a plate. Of course, I'm using their 3-0 victory as an example, because it showed everything that we do wrong going into these matches.

Not enough self-belief - I felt the players going into this match didn't believe they were going to win. It's sad to say, but they didn't look like they were relishing the challenge to take 3 points off our greatest rivals, they looked terribly stressed and under pressure. Of course they were going to feel the pressure, but I don't think they had the meantal strength to channel this into pulling out a world-class performance, this needs to change else we're always going to struggle in these games - the games that decide who will be crowned champion.

Mascherano cracked and got sent off, and I remember no-one doing anything to stop him complaining to the ref. We didn't play as a team, simple as that. It's not the individuals that will win a match like this IMHO, but the team working together as a whole, supporting one another. I think this is reflected by Ronaldo never having much success against us. What's missing is the confidence that we can do it, we definitely have the ability. Hopefully the 12th man will get behind our boys this year and we'll win - how sweet that will be - and in future matches we'll know we can beat them, we just need to break the losing cycle!

The truth is - they've been a better team than us!

That's the reason they've beaten us - the results over the whole season, tells you whom is the best!

The only way we can be better than the Mancs - is not by beating them in one-off matches...it's by landing the League or finishing above them at least!

Your scores don't make sense?

Dossena, Degen and Nemeth cannot get a rating - as they could be anything from a 1-10 as we have no idea yet!

Rooney a 7 !!!! and Evra a 7 !!!!  A biased Pool Fan if ever I've seen one!

P.S. The Mancs won the double last season with that same team !

Shock horror but i agree about Nemeth, Dossena and Degen.

Sticking to fashion though, Rooney is a target man for them and scored only 12 goals in roughly 30 games i believe. Thats worthy of a 7.

He is so over hyped by many but truth is, he has never scored over 20 goals or even close to it a season. Yes he does some great things but a striker is judged on his goals, especially one of Rooney's stature should score more considering so many pundits and football fans are so far up his arse.

I agree with the general consensus though, its in our minds where the battle will be won. We've seen them score a late winner while we dominated in 2 of the last 3 occasions while the other, we just lost the plot and it reflected on the scoreline. Keep our boys in check mentally and we will win, no matter who we field.

Shock horror but I agree about Nemeth, Dossena and Degen.

Sticking to fashion though, Rooney is a target man for them and scored only 12 goals in roughly 30 games I believe. Thats worthy of a 7.

He is so over hyped by many but truth is, he has never scored over 20 goals or even close to it a season. Yes he does some great things but a striker is judged on his goals, especially one of Rooney's stature should score more considering so many pundits and football fans are so far up his arse.

I agree with the general consensus though, its in our minds where the battle will be won. We've seen them score a late winner while we dominated in 2 of the last 3 occasions while the other, we just lost the plot and it reflected on the scoreline. Keep our boys in check mentally and we will win, no matter who we field.

Sorry but - you aint seeing it!

The Mancs have proven they are the best - whether we like it or not.  That's the truth...the results don't lie.

We need to prove ourselves to be the best and that's not by winning the odd game against the Mancs - it's by beating them and the others and winning the league.  Then you can start to seriously compare the two teams.

The old saying 'we can beat anyone on our day' is complete s*ite.  As Arsenal , Chavs and Mancs fans would say likewise!

Sorry but - you aint seeing it!

The Mancs have proven they are the best - whether we like it or not.  That's the truth...the results don't lie.

We need to prove ourselves to be the best and that's not by winning the odd game against the Mancs - it's by beating them and the others and winning the league.  Then you can start to seriously compare the two teams.

The old saying 'we can beat anyone on our day' is complete s*ite.  As Arsenal , Chavs and Mancs fans would say likewise!

Answer me these questions directly without going off somewhere into your own imanigative land:

1) You said Rooney is better than a 7, i said he isnt, explain why he isnt with a well thought out response to show me how i am wrong.

2) When did i say we were better? I said we dominated in our matches except for our last game. If we were the best we would have held aloft that trophy, not them.

3) I never compared us, i said should we have the right mentality we could win, how did you get that out of my response?

4) We can beat anyone on our day. (Not a question but a general satement in case you dont pick up on that)

Answer me these questions directly without going off somewhere into your own imanigative land:

1) You said Rooney is better than a 7, I said he isnt, explain why he isnt with a well thought out response to show me how I am wrong.

2) When did I say we were better? I said we dominated in our matches except for our last game. If we were the best we would have held aloft that trophy, not them.

3) I never compared us, I said should we have the right mentality we could win, how did you get that out of my response?

4) We can beat anyone on our day. (Not a question but a general satement in case you dont pick up on that)

Okay mate:

Rooney on his day is a 10 - I'm sure Alex Ferguson would like to have an arguement with you on that.  So you're wrong on him.

My arguement is - you cannot compare Liverpool and the Mancs on the individual matches.  You have to look at the overall picture - they keep winning and winning. 

Right mentality!  Yes, but it's more about the quality on the pitch, which we've been lacking.  Next season, we will see if we are nearer.  But on the facts (past) - we cannot be compared mate!

i agree with Crouchino in many respects.  mentality in sports is massive.  manure have a belief.  success also brings belief.  they also had huge strength in depth in being able to bring big money players off the bench.  this is an area where we were lacking last year.  this year we seem to have more depth to the team.  one other factor is consistency!  despite a sh*te start they were very consistent over the season, whereas we lost our way mid season and then regained it again.  the depth of the team is again important for consistency.

whatever happens, they will always be manure and we are LFC (the best) 

YNWA

Okay mate:

Rooney on his day is a 10 - I'm sure Alex Ferguson would like to have an arguement with you on that.  So you're wrong on him.

My arguement is - you cannot compare Liverpool and the Mancs on the individual matches.  You have to look at the overall picture - they keep winning and winning. 

Right mentality!  Yes, but it's more about the quality on the pitch, which we've been lacking.  Next season, we will see if we are nearer.  But on the facts (past) - we cannot be compared mate!

How'd i know you would give a senseless post.

1) I ask YOU, note YOU, on why Rooney is more than a 7. Not F***ing Fergie, not how good he can be but YOU Richo. Anyone is a 10 on their day in the top flight. So still awaiting a decent response to that.

2) I asked you to remind me of how i said we were better. I implied they are better by saying 'If we were the best we would have held aloft that trophy, not them.' Still awaiting a decent response to that

3) We can be compared, besides the 3-0 loss, we could/should have beaten them if it wasnt for Tevez' fluke strike and John O'Shea's last second winner in our 2 meetings before that. So then we can be compared as we have tested them but havent put that ball in the back of the net when it counted. We totally outplayed them in those two occasions but it wasnt to be. Still awaiting a decent response to that.

4) You look at our side against AC Milan in the CL final, they had a squad 10 times better and had 3 goals against us with 45 minutes left in the match, our mentality was right in the second half and wha hey! we won. Mentality is the biggest factor in sport, any sports psycholigst, player and/or coach would tell you that. Scum, Chelsea and Arsenal all lost games to sides less talented than they and the same as us last season, why? The mentality wasnt there.

I ask a simple question and dont get it answered, am i that hard to understand?

I think that we wouldn't hear that much of Shrek Rooney if he hadn't had gone to Man U.

OK he shows flashes of brilliance once in a while (is he a lighthouse?) and is a workhorse but he is so Overrated it is untrue. I don't even think he is worthy to lace Torres bootlaces.

And if Rooney and Tevez (And I hear that Man U are constructing a bell tower at Old Trafford for that Ugly tw*t) are that good why is Ferguson still after an out and out striker.

The last decent/prolific one they had was Van horseface.

I think that we wouldn't hear that much of Shrek Rooney if he hadn't had gone to Man U.

OK he shows flashes of brilliance once in a while (is he a lighthouse?) and is a workhorse but he is so Overrated it is untrue. I don't even think he is worthy to lace Torres bootlaces.

And if Rooney and Tevez (And I hear that Man U are constructing a bell tower at Old Trafford for that Ugly tw*t) are that good why is Ferguson still after an out and out striker.

The last decent/prolific one they had was Van horseface.

Too right lad. Anyone who graces the slime infested turf of Ye Old Toilet is an instant superstar.

Dean Ashton hit 2 goals less than Rooney last season (I think he hit double figures, well i'm sure of it) and played less due to injury but you dont see him being touted as worth 30 million. Santa Cruz hit a ton more than Rooney and is only touted as 12 million.

Rooney is over rated, period. While he can show flashes of brilliance, he doesnt perform as much as he is hyped up. He is a 10 one day, but those days are few and far between. For 30 million purely on value and not Fergie holding a team to ransom, i expect more, especially in the goals department and tracking back.

Ok im going to be very honest.

GK
Reina: 8                VdS: 8

Defenders
Dossena: 7.5         Agger: 9             Carra: 9                 Arbeloa: 7.5
Evra: 8.5               Vidic: 9               Ferdinand: 8.5            Neville: 6.5

Midfield
Gerrard: 10           Mascherano: 9             Alonso: 9                    Kuyt: 7.5
Nani: 7.5              Hardgreeves: 8.5             Scholes: 7.5                 Giggs: 6(he's done IMO)

Foward
Torres: 10            Keane: 9
Rooney: 9            Tevez: 8.5

I think that Uniteds defence is very solid so i do and hopefully the introduction of keane will be able to crack it open. In the midfield we are superior IMO and if Silva comes in then that will be the icing on the cake. Up front we are better on paper but Ronney and Tevez have such a good partnership and the Torres Keane partnership is still in early days, but looks like it will develop quickly. Overall we are very evenly matched and thats a non-biased opinion, anyone who comes on saying "we are far better than united, there rubbish" is sadly mistaken im afraid, but i do think that the introduction of Silva will tip the balence in out favour 

The truth is - they've been a better team than us!

That's the reason they've beaten us - the results over the whole season, tells you whom is the best!

The only way we can be better than the Mancs - is not by beating them in one-off matches...it's by landing the League or finishing above them at least!

In a way you're right, but you're over-simplifying the situation. When I hear you say "they're the better team", it sounds like you mean they have better individuals, which is simply not true. What is true is that they believe they can win as a team, and this is the difference. Lots of us have compared the players, and we're on a par with them, of that I'm sure.

And of course beating Man Utd does not give us the title, but the match has a far bigger importance than you imply. These are the big ones, we have two chances a year to slow their progress, to get ahead of them, and it's only in the head to head matches that we can do that. It's a cliche to hear about the "6 point matches" that change a season, but if we had beaten them twice last year and not the other way around, we would have had 6 more points and them 6 less.... How far behind were we again?

I truly believe that we have a chance in this one. United have turned in one good performance this year, and although we are yet to produce a good performance, a game like this will bring the best out of us.

A lot depends if StevieG is back, don't think we will have Torres, sub as best.

Reina--------------------
Carra --- Skrtel --- Agger --- Dossena
-----------Mash --- Alonso
Babel -------------------------- Riera
-----------Kuyt-------Keane

StevieG in place of Alonso, if he is fit.

What are you thoughts

Going to be a very interesting match this one.
3 points to us will give us the belief we need, not only to say 'finally we've beaten you', but also to give us a 6 point distance between us and them.

For far too long, we have played some great football against the mancs (some bloody awful displays aswell), and got absolutely nothing out of the game.
We need to create and most importantly put away those chances we create.
We know from experience, we have suffered in the past, from that single goal defeat.

It'll be difficult, for sure, when you think we are sweating on the fitness of our 2 main players, but United are without Rondildo - and we must exploit that.

All 11 players who take to the field on 13 sept. must play to the top of there game.
We must (as the supporters) get fully behind the lads, and help them by being the 12th man.

Roll on the 13th.

I.R.W.T.

I truly believe that we have a chance in this one. United have turned in one good performance this year, and although we are yet to produce a good performance, a game like this will bring the best out of us.

A lot depends if StevieG is back, don't think we will have Torres, sub as best.

Reina--------------------
Carra --- Skrtel --- Agger --- Dossena
-----------Mash --- Alonso
Babel -------------------------- Riera
-----------Kuyt-------Keane

StevieG in place of Alonso, if he is fit.

What are you thoughts

I'd go with that, good team.

If we picked up 3 points here it would surely give the team a huge lift and a belief to kick on.

This game really frightens me. It seems like all the luck in the world is against these Liverpool United fixtures, and this seems to be no different with Torres and Gerrard injured. My confidence would be a hell of a lot better if they were fit for the game. But still, we're at Anfield and we've still got good players and Keane is still yet to shine, what a game it would be for him to start.

Reina
Arbeloa Carra Skrtel Dossena
Kuyt Masch Xabi Benayoun
Keane Babel

Personally I wouldn't put Reria in this match, it's too physical a game for someone like Reira to make his debut. The same goes for the likes of N'Gog and El Zhar, I don't think they're ready to start in a game that so much rests on. It may only be the fourth game of the season but this game always has so much riding on it.

If Gerrard and Torres are fit then Kuyt and Benayoun miss out. Babel goes down the left, Gerrard down the right and obviously Torres up top along side Keane.

Not play Reira, are you mad.
Don't forget he has played in prem before, and he would have had 10 days to get used to the rest of the team.

I'm hoping to see good things out of Dossena and Reira on the left side, its been are sticking point for a lot of years now, I'm not saying they will sort it out in there 1st match together, but I do hope to see signs.