The huge Anfield problem

Might sound a bit mad but Rafa must take his fair share!

Twice I've seen it happen now, the lads I'm with, other fans around visibly deflate when they see the team announced.

Everyone was up for the game in the pub, then you see Lucas's name, and you just know it's gonna be scrappy.

It baffles me that Rafa can't see what 45,000 others can     

It baffles me that Rafa can't see what 45,000 others can    

Me too Smiggs, I just think he is one stubborn man...he knew who we wanted and he knew who we wanted off but he thought he might work his magic again and it backfired.

Everyone was up for the game in the pub, then you see Lucas's name, and you just know it's gonna be scrappy.

10 other players on the pitch.  That's not an excuse for a poor atmosphere.  And in any case, for the 90 minutes, the unwritten rule is you get behind every single player.

Watched Match Of The Day last night. Usually when you see games at the Riverside, you think to yourself 'how come there's hardly any fans in the stands, that's poor that, the atmosphere and support must be sh*te'.

But then you think of some of our games like yesterday where's there's hardly a peep. At least Boro have an excuse for no noise!!!

It makes me sick.

The only excuse for a quiet stadium is empty seats.

Umm I think its bollocks that those at the ground get their supporting balloons deflated when they see the team sheet. It does not matter who the manager puts on that sheet we should be singing, cheering and shouting behind them. FFS even on the telly it looked quite and by the 94th minute you could notice a few empty seats around the ground. Its like my mate who watched the game at my house decided to go to bed in the 92nd minute a so called Livrpool supporter, I have been in his ear all day about it. He exemplifies those that leave the ground early and boo the team at the end of the match, well in so called Liverpool supporters.

Today were a disgrace took 82 minutes before they were heard on tv. Expecting things to just happen and when it didnt got on the players backs how does that help? We have discussed this time and again so this is not a thread to talk about what can we do to improve this is a thread to show my anger towards the so called fans who are either paying a fortune to get over to a game and then sit there like a statue and to locals who love to blame non scousers on the sh*te atmosphere but do nothing about it themselves. Well f**k the lot of ye your a disgrace to this clubs history and name   

I was back in my favourite part of the Kop, Block 304 yesterday.  The atmosphere was great there, almost non-stop.  From what I'm reading it doesn't appear that it was like that everywhere else.  Shame the game wasn't as good.

I am also a 'non-scouser' PTS member which may upset some 'locals' but I make the effort to learn chants/songs and join in.  I also try to teach my mates the songs for when they come with me.  I even print out the songs posted on this website if it helps them.  The way I see it, if people come to sample the atmosphere, they have to be prepared to add to it.

I was back in my favourite part of the Kop, Block 304 yesterday.  The atmosphere was great there, almost non-stop.  From what I'm reading it doesn't appear that it was like that everywhere else.  Shame the game wasn't as good.

I am also a 'non-scouser' PTS member which may upset some 'locals' but I make the effort to learn chants/songs and join in.  I also try to teach my mates the songs for when they come with me.  I even print out the songs posted on this website if it helps them.  The way I see it, if people come to sample the atmosphere, they have to be prepared to add to it.

Well said mate... more and more of the locals are the silent ones now... THIS IS ANFIELD it says on the sign... it's unconditional to big or small games... THIS IS ANFIELD for all games... or the 12th man starts to work for the opposition as the silence makes our players anxious and nervous until we get that 1st goal... seen it time after time after time... and it's really getting on my tits now.

The tour of the ground continues. 

Was in block 124 in the Anny Road last night - half way up - decent spec.

The half-block next to me was about 20 seats wide and went right up to the Marseille fans.  First half they were stood throughout - obviously much to everyone behind them's annoyance who really didn't want to stand.  But did the sing? Did they F**k.  Some lads at the back were getting the chanting going and Kenny with us did a good attempt.  We sang pretty much all throughout the first half and a couple round us joined in so fair play to everyone in the Anny who opened their mouths. But hardly any of these lads standing joined in - very surprising considering they were right next to the singing Marseille fans, you would have thought that would have spurred them on.

Second half that block started by standing but the stewards got a few rows to sit down.

Next thing is some stupid looking get shouts 'Sit down for fucks sake', and the remaining rows sat down.  He was pleased as punch with himself and there was a little mini round of applause for him from the Klingons he was with.  Needless to say that was the only time he opened his mouth during the entire game.

I really wonder how some people get hold of tickets.  Such a disappointment.

The tour of the ground continues. 

Was in block 124 in the Anny Road last night - half way up - decent spec.

The half-block next to me was about 20 seats wide and went right up to the Marseille fans.  First half they were stood throughout - obviously much to everyone behind them's annoyance who really didn't want to stand.  But did the sing? Did they f**k.  Some lads at the back were getting the chanting going and Kenny with us did a good attempt.  We sang pretty much all throughout the first half and a couple round us joined in so fair play to everyone in the Anny who opened their mouths. But hardly any of these lads standing joined in - very surprising considering they were right next to the singing Marseille fans, you would have thought that would have spurred them on.

Second half that block started by standing but the stewards got a few rows to sit down.

Next thing is some stupid looking get shouts 'Sit down for fucks sake', and the remaining rows sat down.  He was pleased as punch with himself and there was a little mini round of applause for him from the Klingons he was with.  Needless to say that was the only time he opened his mouth during the entire game.

I really wonder how some people get hold of tickets.  Such a disappointment.

I wish we were back in the days when it was the in thing to get behind the f*cking team. Who told them all that you're a gobs***e if you sing? I know lads who regularly spout about the lack of singing at matches, and then have sat there quiet as a mouse during the match themselves. They tend to dwell in the Anny Road end if I'm going to be honest.

I can't comment on the Centenary as I haven't sat there since we were in the UEFA Cup, but I'm going to take a guess and say it's not as quiet as the Main Stand or the Anny Road, but not on par with the Kop. In saying that, I've witnessed a fair share of shitbags in the Spion Kop too so no-one is really free from blame.

It's getting beyond a joke. Wouldn't a few singing instructors doa  decent job, dotted about the stadium. Fans who'd get cut price tickets to drive on the fans around them. It's not as small time as Chelsea leaving flags out for their fans, and I'm sure other clubs actually pay people to orchestrate their fans' singing. I'd put my name down, put it that way.

The big problem is the back of the Kop.

If you're in that mosh it's a great atmosphere, but it's affecting the entire ground.

For a kick off you can't really hear them around the rest of the ground and if anything it has concentrated those who want to sing in to one tiny section of the ground.

It's as if it's become the 'singing section' and you don't do that anywhere else.

If they were going to put that block anywhere it should have been at the front of the Kop but I can understand why they don't because of the standing.

To be fair I was doing plenty of singing even sitting down in the Anny Road and you don't need to stand to have to sing.  I have absolutely no qualms in calling people gobshites who don't get involved.  Most of them are.

But a rethink is needed over concentrating people in to one section in the Kop.  Fine for them, but hurting the overall atmosphere.

To be fair I was doing plenty of singing even sitting down in the Anny Road and you don't need to stand to have to sing.  I have absolutely no qualms in calling people gobshites who don't get involved.  Most of them are.

Gobshites is being polite. What I cant get me head around is why pay for a match ticket and in some cases a flight or a long car journey to go and just sit there? It doesnt make sense. I shout at me telly when theyre on so bloody sure Im going to shout in the ground when Im lucky to get to a game. Passionless these people

It baffles me why people pay for a ticket and fail to engage with the game at all.

We could have roared ourselves in to a commanding position last night and put the shits up Marseille.

Some people you would think the are being forced to go to these games.

I was in the Upper Centenary last night, block CE8.  it was a morgue!  a few of us did our best, but we were really up against it.  there were 5 lads behind us who were from somewhere like Finland or Norway, and fair play to them they also did their best.  English is their second language and they knew the words and had a go.  however, most of the people around us did not make a sound.  i made a note of looking around during YNWA and the bloke on my right didn't move his lips!!!!

What is happening when sections of our so called supporters do not even attempt to sing YNWA.

hardly anyone joined in the other songs that were started from the Kop. 

so far this year, i've been in all stands apart from the Main.  the Kop against PSV was a great night, Annie Road against Portsmouth wasn't great, but it did seem as though there was some noise coming from their last night!

it says something, when you actually feel an outsider for trying to vocally support your team. i don't know how it can change, but in the last few years it has got dramatically worse.

i actually felt a bit low after the game last night.  i know we won, but the atmosphere and emotion is a big part of it for me and i know that i can get more worked up and vocal sitting at home watching on the telly (i can also swear at andy Grays commentary), and i won't feel i'm spoiling the game for anyone else.  That will never happen though and i'll keep going in the belief that the passion and emotion will return to Anfield on a regular bases again.

I'll be there on Monday night in the Annie Road again, with a mate from Italy, and he could teach a few of our supporters a thing or two about passion and emotion. 

i was also in anny road block 124 last night row 10, around me there was one girl singing constant but she didn't have the vocals to be heard, apart from fields of anfield road and when we scored, no one joined in with me and this girl infront of me.  she did have an annoying habit of clapping her hands and shouting "easy" whenever marseille had a shot off target

it says something, when you actually feel an outsider for trying to vocally support your team. i don't know how it can change, but in the last few years it has got dramatically worse.

i actually felt a bit low after the game last night.  i know we won, but the atmosphere and emotion is a big part of it for me and i know that i can get more worked up and vocal sitting at home watching on the telly (i can also swear at andy Grays commentary), and i won't feel i'm spoiling the game for anyone else. 

That sums it my opinion perfectly.  It's got to the stage where you feel like you're ruining it for these useless bas**rds by singing.

These morons have succeeded in turning Anfield in to 'just another ground' - but the worse thing is 'god knows how' they've all got the credits for the Champions League games.

I was speaking to one Irish lad after the game who couldn't remember any of our defenders names, well apart from Dossena who apparently was 'one of our best players' and was 'doing all the covering at the back'.

Something drastic needs to change with Liverpool's ticketing policy.

The stewards should pull people out of the crowd and give them a slap on the wrists if they're not making some noise, then send them back to their seats.... 

I know what you mean about feeling low walking out of the ground redprint. It was the lack of support which was the first thing I moaned about when we got out of the ground.

And I can see what you mean about feeling alienated for trying to vocally support the reds. Personally, I think F**k them. If they don't like it then they can watch the match at home in comfortable silence.

The more people like ourselves keep the noise going and in turn, make the quiet brigade annoyed, the better. Because hopefully they'll decrease in numbers and the people who want to get behind the reds and make some noise might get a better chance of joining in. Stranger things have happened.

Roy Keane summed Man U up perfectly with his prawn sandwich comment and I have to agree that football  on the whole has gone this way, business men entertaining guests no longer want the sit in the box treatment its the sit in with the crowd atmosphere they want.

I know of a local business who has over 20 season tickets to entertain potential customers, people that dont actually support Liverpool but want the feeling of 'Sitting in the Kop with the Kopites singing' as they put it. It drives me mad, you also get the so called supporters that dont really have a clue whats going on, like the guy JD mentions who couldn't name the defenders and remembered our worst player for playing well.

I don't see any way of getting out of the situation, Liverpool supporters and the Kop has in past time been filled with working class families from the local area who have a heart and passion for our great club. Sadly now Mr Commercial Business Opportunity has come along and due to this prices have risen and deals have been done.

We need to get back to the hardcore of supporters who stood on the Kop and belted out song after song and actually made a difference to the players on the pitch by lifting there spirits and pushing them on to score the winning goal. I remember times when the opposition scored and the singing got even louder and only served to make the Kop even louder, nowadays the away team score and you hear muffled swearing followed by a few chants and then silence.

Can you hear the Kopites sing...............sadly not like they used to

I know of a local business who has over 20 season tickets to entertain potential customers, people that dont actually support Liverpool but want the feeling of 'Sitting in the Kop with the Kopites singing' as they put it. It drives me mad, you also get the so called supporters that dont really have a clue whats going on, like the guy JD mentions who couldn't name the defenders and remembered our worst player for playing well.

I don't see any way of getting out of the situation, Liverpool supporters and the Kop has in past time been filled with working class families from the local area who have a heart and passion for our great club. Sadly now Mr Commercial Business Opportunity has come along and due to this prices have risen and deals have been done.

Absolutely mate.

And I know it's 'new stadium' related but this article in the Echo yesterday gives you even more cause for concern. The heart and passion is definitely taking a back seat. It makes you wonder who else will get their dirty hands on seats, outside the boxes!!

Link

LIVERPOOL'S commercial director has claimed the club will make more money from corporate boxes than new fans if and when their new stadium opens.

Ian Ayre told delegates at the Soccerex football business convention in Johannesburg that it is estimated more than 50% of income on match days will come from the sale of seats in corporate boxes rather than the increased numbers in mainstream seating.

Work on the proposed new stadium in Stanley Park is still to get underway, having been postponed in September for at least another year.

Club owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett insisted the delay was made inevitable by the credit crunch but Ayre remains confident the stadium will eventually be built and believes it will prove to be a lucrative cash spinner.

Despite emphasising the corporate opportunities the planned new 60,000 stadium will bring, Ayre insists it will still be possible to maintain Liverpool's unique fan identity.

"The new stadium is clearly a business opportunity," he said. "But it will be important to maintain the integrity of the Liverpool brand and fan experience at Anfield.

"Central to the new stadium is the preservation of the famous Kop, packed each week by home fans. It will increase from 12,000 seats to 20,000, around the same number as when it was standing room only.”

Ayre stood by the club's decision to delay the construction of the stadium.

"Our decision to delay construction was certainly the right one," he added. "We have since seen the costs come down."

So bang on the mark Mildrop

How many season ticket holders in the Lower Centenary (Kemlyn), have found themselves getting moved around the ground to make way for corporate cu*ts, I just wish they'd F**k off back to the boxes

Although I wouldn't just say locals anymore, plenty of oot's and foreigners come and make plenty of noise, theres still a good number of scousers that can't be arsed singing.

Another problem is simply were too F***ing spoilt. A lot fans went last night expecting to win and not prepared to do their part, which is getting more and more endemic with the game in general, especially in this Sky entertainment era.

Can it see being like this for a lot of Euro games from now on, apart from when our backs against the wall and a result is needed or unless we get Man U in quarters or the semi's.

Anyone know what Ian Ayre did at Huddersfield Town, apart from take them into administration!!

SPEAK TO ALAN KENNEDY ON LFC TV TONIGHT
Paul Eaton 27 November 2008

Alan Kennedy will be joined by Liverpool Echo journalist Tony Barrett in our LFC TV studios tonight to take your calls live on air in 'This is Anfield'.
After a couple of below par displays from the Reds we'll be discussing whether the nervousness among the supporters is affecting the team on the pitch.

Should the fans be getting behind the team rather than barracking certain players? Or maybe you believe fans have a right to make their opinions known during games.

We also want to hear your reaction to our victory over Marseille which secured our place in the last sixteen of this season's Champions League.

Whatever you want to discuss with Alan or Tony, this is your show and your platform to have your say, so make sure you get involved by calling 0845 234 4567 when the lines open at 8.45pm. The programme gets underway on LFC TV at 9pm.

So season ticket holders are to blame for mausoleum like atmospheres at Anfield? Tell me who Out of the fans who think season ticket holders are the main factor in our footballing séances how many of you have season tickets? And then who among you would jump at the chance to own one for your self? Scrapping the system is an idiotic idea but building a bigger stadium where we could bring in more pay on the day fans is not.

It was £650 for my Kop season ticket this year (I bailed my lad out who uses it) it was roughly £600 more than when I bought my first one in..err well it was a while ago anyway, the guaranteed season ticket money our club gets in June every year goes into the pot straight away and with those lovable custodians waiting in the wings gleefully rubbing their hands in anticipation you know season tickets will not die they will increase and increase to a point where any Sven, Hans or Lottie can get one. And while they sit in the stands with a song sheet desperately trying to figure out who Liverpool are (they are not quite that bad :) Rupert and Fiona will look down on them from their double glazed fish tanks with shag pile carpet and bolly on tap as Jeeves cleans up the dinner table.

Slightly over the top I would agree (a little bit) but the point I am trying to make is our beautiful club is hanging by its fingertips to stay what it has always been, the real peoples club! DLS has made some cracking points about the how LFC is now being corporately run as some sort of sporting cash machine I honestly think our current debtors sorry owners couldn't give a flying fig for you and me because if we don't pay someone else is standing behind with their hand held out yelling “I will pay I will pay!”
I am not a communist or a Marxist (I was a cub scout however ) or any of those other political insults people hurl when you dare to suggest money is at the root of a problem, I am still a football fan who loves the game and more importantly his club and I will not carry on chucking money at replica Liver bird ties, socks or crotch less underpants! And I will not wet my pants because some clown is doing me the wondrous favour of lowering the match tickets by a bloody £ !!! Oh goody my love we will have turkey this Christmas!!!

Now I have done my party political on why I think the Money men are at the root of all that stinks in our game I would like to agree to a point that a large amount of season ticket holders do waltz into games fresh from the Albert at Kick off time and make no effort to sing YNWA instead preferring to see off a tray of chips from the Chinese over the road, yes they will talk about allsorts of crap instead of getting behind the reds and joining in with a verse of fields of Anfield road, yes they bugger off ten minutes before time because Vera's got the kettle on and they just cant be arsed!! But do you know what I defy anyone to tell me it's purely one group of fans or another.

I have had a season ticket for more years than I can remember but do you know what this is the last year, I haven't lost my love of the reds I only have to hear YNWA and its all I can do to stop a tear (Its cos I bloody hate Gerry Marsden! ) but I just cant be doing with the financial aspect of the game anymore and one way or another its at the root of every clubs problems including massive influences on who does and doesn't attend games and thus becomes a deciding factor on why that sulky sod is sat next to you.

So season ticket holders are to blame for mausoleum like atmospheres at Anfield? Tell me who Out of the fans who think season ticket holders are the main factor in our footballing séances how many of you have season tickets? And then who among you would jump at the chance to own one for your self? Scrapping the system is an idiotic idea but building a bigger stadium where we could bring in more pay on the day fans is not.

I didn't lay the blame entirely at the door at season ticket holders, scousers, plastic scousers, woolybacks, the Irish, PTS holders, or any one group.

Some forums have in the past tried to paint the picture that it was the out of towners, but that just isn't the case at all.

I'd love to have a season ticket, but the current system means that people hand them down through their familiy's - pass them on to the brothers when they can't go.  I've been on the waiting list for about 8 years.

Personally I have always been interested to see how much effort 'some' season ticket holders would go to to try and get a ticket for nearly every game on the phonelines and the windows etc.

Anyway, this wasn't solely about season ticket holders - it was about the shocking atmosphere at Anfield these days which is presently the worst I have ever experienced since I started watching the reds 25 years ago.. 

And if I'm being honest - I don't think the atmosphere will ever get back to anything near what it was. 

The club may want to reconsider building a new stadium.  Because I think by then quite a few people will have had enough of sitting next to people who make them feel uncomfortable actively supporting Liverpool FC.