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      Howard Webb

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      reddebs
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      Re: Howard Webb
      Reply #115: Feb 18, 2014 07:07:31 pm
      If we get him again in any of our 'big' games this season, my only consolation is that he's generally regarded as a "homer" ref and our remaining 'big' games are at home, so in theory we should get the controversial decisions  ;D

      I'm sure however with all the media coverage he's had this week the FA will have had a word to make sure we aren't favoured with his decisions  :mad:
      bigears
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      Re: Howard Webb
      Reply #116: Feb 18, 2014 07:11:03 pm
      If we get him again in any of our 'big' games this season, my only consolation is that he's generally regarded as a "homer" ref and our remaining 'big' games are at home, so in theory we should get the controversial decisions  ;D

      I'm sure however with all the media coverage he's had this week the FA will have had a word to make sure we aren't favoured with his decisions  :mad:
      He's shameless Debs , I don't think he gives a flying F**k what we think about him and whether that's at home or not he's drawn the line in the sand .

      RedPuppy
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      Re: Howard Webb
      Reply #117: Feb 18, 2014 07:18:25 pm
      Felt this "subject" had it's own topic.

      To keep all the love in one place, and to show nothing has changed, I've merged the topics.

      Release the Kraken.
      reddebs
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      Re: Howard Webb
      Reply #118: Feb 18, 2014 07:25:25 pm
      He's shameless Debs , I don't think he gives a flying f**k what we think about him and whether that's at home or not he's drawn the line in the sand .

      He sure has mate.  I shocked my other half after the Arsenal game when I said if I ever see him in the street I'd drive the car straight at him.  I'm generally very anti violence but he's an exception.
      waltonl4
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      Re: Howard Webb
      Reply #119: Feb 18, 2014 07:29:02 pm
      Its up to the Anfield faithful to make sure that as soon as he shows his bald ugly mug 45000 people start booing him and put him and the linesman under pressure they have never seen before.
      TheRedMosquito
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      Re: Howard Webb
      Reply #120: Feb 18, 2014 07:31:51 pm
      Howard Webb escapes demotion
      Howard Webb has escaped being relegated to the Football League after his refereeing of Arsenal's FA Cup win against Liverpool drew intense criticism from the Anfield club and from pundits.

       The official will take charge of Cardiff's Premier League match against Hull on Saturday and he has reacted to storm surrounding his performance by trying to end discussion of his off-field activities.

      Webb has had his name removed from a celebrity website advertising his services for after-dinner speaking following suggestions he had lost his focus on refereeing.

      He initially came under fire from Liverpool manager Brendan Rodgers and captain Steven Gerrard for denying Luis Suarez what appeared to be a clear penalty in Arsenal's 2-1 win at Emirates Stadium on Sunday.

      However, he was also heavily criticised by former top-flight referee Mark Halsey, who made the claim that Webb had been distracted by his off-field interests and needed to take "a good look at himself."

      Webb's apparent reaction has been to have his name, profile and references to his speaking activities erased from an agency website.

      Webb was listed as a client of the website comedians.co.uk, which represents numerous high-profile figures from sport, politics and entertainment.

      His fee was listed as between 2,000 pounds to 4,000 pounds, according to the Daily Telegraph, and the paper claims someone acting on behalf of Webb asked the agency to remove his details because of the criticism it had brought him.

      Webb does, however, reportedly remain a client and available for motivational talks.
      The spotlight will remain on the official, however, as he returns to action on Saturday.

      He is considered to be the country's top referee and will represent England at the World Cup in Brazil.

      The Premier League are reluctant to demote officials unless they have produced a bad run of games and try to avoid reacting too quickly to what can be one-off errors.

      Rodgers may dispute that Webb's decision on Sunday was an isolated error. The referee may have given Liverpool one penalty in the game, when Lukas Podolski fouled Suarez, but the manager pointed to a previous incident at Chelsea when his Uruguayan striker was also denied a spot kick.

      http://espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1719566/webb-escapes-demotion-suarez-pen-gaffe?cc=5901

      Who the hell would hire Howard freakin' Webb to be a motivational speaker? ;D
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Howard Webb
      Reply #121: Feb 18, 2014 07:38:20 pm
      Some key incidents where he and his officials have cost us this season.

      1) The shocking offside call when Sterling was on by about 6 yards
      2) Samuel Eto'o not being sent off for a dangerous tackle that could have potentially ended Jordan Henderson's career....lucky Hendo got back up
      3) Samuel Eto'o taking out Suarez in the same game when they were both off the ball, no penalty was given
      4) Lukas Podolski failing to get booked when he done a foul that was no better than Flanno's
      5) Oxlade-Chamberlain wiping out Suarez in the box, no penalty given

      We lost all 3 of these games, 2 of which would have had us higher in the league and the other getting back to 2-2 in a cup game.

      It's astonishing that he continues to ref our games!
      Paisleydalglish
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      Re: Howard Webb
      Reply #122: Feb 18, 2014 07:42:47 pm
      Some key incidents where he and his officials have cost us this season.

      1) The shocking offside call when Sterling was on by about 6 yards
      2) Samuel Eto'o not being sent off for a dangerous tackle that could have potentially ended Jordan Henderson's career....lucky Hendo got back up
      3) Samuel Eto'o taking out Suarez in the same game when they were both off the ball, no penalty was given
      4) Lukas Podolski failing to get booked when he done a foul that was no better than Flanno's
      5) Oxlade-Chamberlain wiping out Suarez in the box, no penalty given

      We lost all 3 of these games, 2 of which would have had us higher in the league and the other getting back to 2-2 in a cup game.

      It's astonishing that he continues to ref our games!

      Not just when he does our games mate

      Remember the 09 season we came second and he gave utd a penalty that never was at Spurs when they were 2-0 down and they came back to win I think

      Blokes a tw*t.

      Best ref my arse

      Arrogant incompetent tw*t
      stuey
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      Re: Howard Webb
      Reply #123: Feb 18, 2014 08:32:10 pm
      Howard Webb cost us again and should never referee another LFC game
                           Legend Aldridge lambasts Webb

      http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/sport-opinion/aldo-howard-webb-cost-again-6720164
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Howard Webb
      Reply #124: Feb 18, 2014 08:39:04 pm
      He's a shameless gutless stain on English football.
      lefty1896
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      Re: Howard Webb
      Reply #125: Feb 18, 2014 08:44:42 pm
      May be a silly question but how do we actually get something done about this. Surely Brendan Rodgers match report of the ref would at least call for an assessment.
      stuey
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      Re: Howard Webb
      Reply #126: Feb 18, 2014 08:48:21 pm
      Any odds on Sir Howard Webb anytime soon??
      bigears
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      Re: Howard Webb
      Reply #127: Feb 18, 2014 09:02:13 pm
      I hear his da was a copper as well , so to me it looks like LFC are his prime target for discrediting his and his da's profession .
      Paisleydalglish
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      Re: Howard Webb
      Reply #128: Feb 18, 2014 09:04:58 pm
      I hear his da was a copper as well , so to me it looks like LFC are his prime target for discrediting his and his da's profession .

      He joined South Yorkshire police in 1989 too
      (So I heard on the Anny Wrap yesterday)
      « Last Edit: Feb 18, 2014 09:15:40 pm by Paisleydalglish »
      bigears
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      Re: Howard Webb
      Reply #129: Feb 18, 2014 09:10:06 pm
      He joined South Yorkshire police in 1989 too
      All will be revealed some day Jon . I bet some psychologist could do a profile on him and be able to tell what kind of bloke he is .
      I reckon he's got all kinds of kinky gear in his house , the torture chamber stuff . Did you see the way he looked at Sterling , scary sh*t that is .

      frizzby5
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      Re: Howard Webb
      Reply #130: Feb 18, 2014 09:11:49 pm
      He joined South Yorkshire police in 1989 too

      Is there a way of finding out if he was involved in anyway at Hillborough?
      RedPuppy
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      Re: Howard Webb
      Reply #131: Feb 18, 2014 09:13:00 pm
      I saw that earlier.

      I may be wrong here, but I get the impression the knives may be out for this particular ex-South Yorkshire Policeman.

      Two articles from todays press.

      The stats that prove Howard Webb bottles big decisions

      Since refereeing the 2010 World Cup final, Howard Webb's decision-making in big matches has changed and Jonathan Liew reveals how...

      Everybody loves having a pop at referees. Even referees. Howard Webb's display in the FA Cup tie between Arsenal and Liverpool attracted a good deal of criticism, not least from former referee Graham Poll. "With his experience and pedigree, Webb should do better," he wrote in his Daily Mail column.

      But the problem with Webb, his detractors claim, isn't that he makes bad decisions. It's that he doesn't make decisions at all. On Sunday, he could have given Luis Suarez a penalty and sent off Steven Gerrard, but didn't. On Jan 1, he could have given Manchester United a penalty against Tottenham when Hugo Lloris brought down Ashley Young with four minutes left, but didn't.

      When it comes to the big moments of the big games, so goes the theory, Webb swallows his whistle. Psychologists call this "omission bias" - the idea that not doing something when you should is better than doing something when you shouldn't.

      This has been studied extensively in the United States, where it has been shown that NFL, NBA and Major League Baseball referees and umpires consistently fail to make decisions when they have the potential to change the course of a game. (If you want to read more, then a book called Scorecasting by Tobias Moskowitz and L Jon Wertheim has an excellent chapter on it.)

      We wanted to test this theory on Webb. So we went through every single match he has refereed over the last four seasons. There have been 177 in total. In those games, he gave a total of 24 penalties and 22 red cards. We're not quite sure what that means.

      The problem, you see, is that although we know how many decisions Webb made, we don't know how many decisions he could have made, but didn't. So for the purposes of comparison, we decided to see how Webb stacks up against his Premier League peers over the same period.

      We decided to look at a number of hypothetical situations where a referee might be tempted to shirk a decision.

      1) Penalties against the home side
      Initially we decided to break down Webb's penalties by whether he gave them to the home or away team. Clearly, given the influence of the crowd, it's braver to award a penalty to the visitors than it is to the home side. But then home teams generally perform better, so you would expect them to win more penalties.
      Here's how Webb compares to all Premier League referees over the last four seasons. We've excluded one penalty that Webb gave to Brazil against Scotland at the Emirates, which technically counts as a neutral game.

      Penalties given to:    Webb           All PL refs
      Home side            65.2% (15/23)   60.2% (203/337)
      Away side            34.8% (8/23)     39.8% (134/337)

      2) Late penalty
      Next, let's consider when Webb gives his penalties. Across the Premier League as a whole, more than twice as many penalties are given in the last 15 minutes as in the first 15 minutes. Most people would agree that it is bolder to give a penalty late in a match, given its potential to alter the result.
      Penalties given in:   Webb    All PL refs
      0-15 min           12.5% (3)    11.2%
      16-30 min          12.5% (3)    14.8%
      31-45 min         16.7% (4)    17.7%
      46-60 min         12.5% (3)    13.6%
      61-75 min         29.2% (7)    18.8%
      76-90 min         16.7% (4)    23.9%

      So Webb is a lot less likely to give a penalty in the last 15 minutes than the average Premier League referee. Still, this is a small sample size, and the big spike in Webb penalties between 61 and 75 minutes means that the data is inconclusive at best. So let's consider another factor: the score in the game. Giving a penalty in the last minute when the score is 0-0 is a quite different proposition to when the score is 4-0.

      3) Late game-changing penalty
      We took all penalties given in the last half-hour of matches and split them into two categories: Crucial and Non-Crucial. We defined a crucial penalty as a penalty that had the potential to change the result of a match. So if a side gets a penatly when they're 1-0 down, that's crucial. If they're 1-0 up when they get the penalty, it's not crucial.

      First we looked at all penalties given after the 60th minute in the Premier League over the last four seasons. This is how they split.

      Crucial               Not crucial
      53.9% (83/154) 46.1% (71/154)

      Over the same period, Webb has given 11 penalties in the last half-hour. This is how they split.

      Crucial             Not crucial
      9.1% (1/11)    90.9% (10/11)

      Yep. Webb has only given one potentially result-changing penalty in the last four seasons, across all competitions. Here it was.

      Still, let's acknowledge the limitations of our control group. Webb's fellow referees may well carry the same prejudices, just to a lesser degree. Some may be over-cautious, some may be too interventionist. In order to make the comparison truly fair, we need to compare Webb with a referee with similar characteristics.

      There's a reason we only looked at the last four seasons. In July 2010, Webb took charge of the World Cup final, the pinnacle of his career, an achievement which brought him worldwide renown and a sharply increased level of scrutiny. Before the World Cup, you might have heard of him, but you probably didn't know that much about him. After it, he instantly became the most recognisable referee in England, perhaps the world. How does the post-2010 Webb compare with the pre-2010 version?
      Not well.
      From 2001 to 2010, Webb refereed at virtually every level of professional football, from Champions League to League Two, from the Community Shield to the Under-17 World Cup. In that time, he awarded 75 penalties. Let's see how they compare with his post-2010 statistics.

      Penalties given to:     Until WC final   After WC final
      Home team             56.9% (41/72)    65.2%
      Away team             43.1% (31/72)    34.8%
      (Excludes three penalties awarded on neutral turf)
      Penalties given in:     Until WC final    After WC final
      Last 15 minutes        23.0%             16.7%
      In last half an hour    Until WC final    After WC final
      Crucial                   57.6% (19/33)     9.1%
      Not crucial              2.4% (14/33)       90.9%

      So it seems that Webb's career can be split into two parts. Until 2010, he was less likely to give a penalty to the home team, more likely to give a penalty late in the game, and overwhelmingly more likely to give a penalty that could affect the result.
      Whether Webb was a good referee who got worse, or vice versa, is too subjective a judgement. What is clear is that he has started to referee games differently since he became famous.
      Let's look at red cards.

      4) Red card to the home side
      Webb has given 68 red cards in his career. In the Premier League, around 60 per cent of red cards go to the away team. What the data shows is that Webb is more likely to send off a visiting player than the average Premier League referee. This discrepancy has increased since the World Cup final.

      Red card to:    Until WC final    After WC final    Average PL
      Home team     38.1% (16/42)   36.4% (8/22)    40.3% (85/211)
      Away team     61.9% (26/42)   63.6% (14/22)   59.7% (126/211)

      (Excludes four red cards awarded on neutral turf. Yes, Nigel De Jong was one of them)

      5) Red card and penalty in the same incident
      Of all the decisions a referee can make, this is the one that perhaps has the biggest potential impact on a game. Generally applies to professional fouls, goalkeeper fouls and handball on the line. On average, 11.4 per cent of Premier League dismissals also result in a penalty. If Webb really is as risk-averse as some claim, you would expect his ratio to be lower. So, is it?

      Well, sort of.
      Red card:          Until WC final     After WC final      Average PL
      With penalty      15.2% (7/46)    4.5% (1/22)         11.4% (24/211)
      Without penalty  84.8% (39/46)   95.5% (21/22)     88.6% (187/211)

      Only once in the last four seasons has Webb given a red card and a penalty at the same time. That was when Per Mertesacker fouled Shane Long in the 70th minute of West Brom v Arsenal in April 2013. Even then, Arsenal were winning 2-0 at the time, so it could be argued that it was not a crucial decision. Indeed, even after James Morrison converted the penalty, Arsenal went on to win 2-1.

      But until 2010, it's a completely different story. Until his moment of Cape Town jubilee, Webb was actually more likely to give a penalty and a red card than the average referee.
      Almost done now.

      6) Early red card
      You know what they say about early red cards. Ref's ruined the game, hasn't he? Ruined it as a spectacle. Ended the game as a contest. We want dangerous play to be punished, but not at the expense of an fair fight. Which is why it's an exceptionally brave referee who sends a player off in the first 15 minutes.
      First of all, let's look at our control group. In the last four Premier League seasons, there have been 211 red cards. That includes both straight reds and two yellows. This is how they break down.


      0-15 min    4.3% (9)
      16-30 min  8.5% (18)
      31-45 min  12.8% (27)
      46-60 min  17.5% (37)
      61-75 min  19.9% (42)
      76-90 min  37.0% (78)

      Unsurprisingly, the chances of seeing a red card increase as the game goes on. But you do see some players sent off early on.
      So, a quiz. Howard Webb has refereed 500 matches, at all levels of the game, over 13 years. How many times do you think he's sent a player off in the first 15 minutes?

      If you said none, come down to the front and collect your prize. You're right.
      Howard Webb red cards (whole career)

      0-15 min    0.0% (0)
      16-30 min  7.4% (5)
      31-45 min  17.6% (12)
      46-60 min  16.2% (11)
      61-75 min  23.5% (16)
      76-90 min  30.9% (21)
      (Excludes three red cards in extra time)

      What this proves (and what it doesn't)
      One thing we didn't find was any evidence of club bias. Webb has given penalties to Manchester United at Old Trafford and given penalties against United at Old Trafford. He's decided to send off Steven Gerrard and decided not to send off Steven Gerrard.
      Nor does it prove that he's a bad referee. What it does show is that since 2010, he has become a lot more wary of influencing a game. He's less likely to give a penalty late on, and less likely still if there's a chance it might affect the result. He's less likely to send a home player off, less likely to award a penalty with a red card and has never, ever sent a player off in the first 15 minutes. Lee Cattermole, hope you're taking notes.

      What this means is that the next time there's a big 50-50 decision to be made in a big game - a last-minute penalty, for example, or a crucial sending off - then there's a strong chance Webb will simply wave play on.
      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/10644977/The-stats-that-prove-Howard-Webb-bottles-big-decisions.html
      bigears
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      Re: Howard Webb
      Reply #132: Feb 18, 2014 09:17:51 pm
      Is there a way of finding out if he was involved in anyway at Hillborough?
      I bet some of his mates were Steve .

      RedPuppy
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      Re: Howard Webb
      Reply #133: Feb 18, 2014 09:18:14 pm
      And the second, as the 1st was a bugger to format!

      The best referee in the country? The stats on Liverpool FC and Howard Webb

      Kristian Walsh examines just how detrimental Howard Webb has been to Liverpool FC, and why that may be.

      A picture can tell a thousand words, but so can the front of Monday's Liverpool Echo.
      β€œThe best ref in the country?” it asks of Howard Webb, in a far more reasoned and family-friendly manner as those who witnessed it live, faces still reddened and flush.


      When the Yorkshireman declined to give a second penalty to the Reds in the space of five minutes, a seething rage built within Reds everywhere.

      Maybe it was less clear cut than it seemed, they thought; perhaps Luis Suarez stumbled, or the coming together was unavoidable, or some other rational explanation can be given for how the Uruguayan ended up sprawled on the turf.

      No such luck. Television replays made it even more evident – Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain barged into Suarez and sent him spinning.

      Webb had got the previous decision - awarding a penalty for Lukas Podolski's foul on Suarez – correct, but this one was very much wrong.
      It was not the only decision Liverpool felt aggrieved with throughout the 90 minutes either, while Arsenal could also point to a few decisions that did not go their way.

      It is something former referee Mark Halsey believes is part of a trend with Webb, who will be England's refereeing representative at this year's World Cup.

      β€œHoward has made an error of judgement,” conceded Halsey. β€œHe has not had the best of seasons.

      β€œHe has not been the Howard Webb we all know.

      "Perhaps he may need a little rest because he is perhaps doing too much.”

      One thing must be made abundantly clear: Webb is not biased against Liverpool, and his integrity cannot be questioned.

      Granted, the decision at the Emirates is probably the worst since Liverpool were refused a penalty for Samuel Eto'o's kick on Suarez in December.

      The referee that afternoon was, inevitably, Webb.

      But every football fan believes every referee is biased against their team – it is human nature, after all, to remember the wrongs instead of rights.

      Webb was the referee to give Liverpool their first penalty of last season, against Stoke on Boxing Day, while he also awarded the Reds three penalties last season – two in one game against Swansea.

      But there seems to be a particular relationship between fans and a particular referee. Everton and Mark Clattenburg, Manchester United and Mike Riley, and most definitely Liverpool and Webb.

      Even former Reds winger Ryan Babel was fined Β£10,000 for posting a doctored picture of Webb in a Manchester United shirt on Twitter in January 2011.
      Indeed, results show that the combination of Liverpool and Webb has not been favourable to the Anfield club.

      In the past five years, the Reds have lost 14 of the 22 games he has officiated, winning just six.

      In comparison to his fellow Fifa listed referees who feature in the Premier League, the difference is telling.
       
      Since 2009/10, Liverpool have won 10 and lost just four in games under Lee Probert, while they have won nine and drawn six of Martin Atkinson's 21 games in charge.

      The Reds have lost just one game apiece refereed by Andre Marriner and Michael Oliver in 16 and 13 games respecitvely.
      That is not to insinuate Webb was a cause for those 14 defeats, of course, as football shifts far too quickly to even attempt lay the blame at Webb's feet.

      His performance meant little, for example, in the Reds' 2-0 defeat against Everton in October 2010, or when QPR came from two goals down to win 3-2 in March 2012.

      Likewise, when Liverpool beat Everton 2-1 in the FA Cup semi-final, the man with the whistle was hardly noticed.

      Just six wins in 22 games also reflects on how Liverpool have been a side who average around 12 defeats a season in recent times.

      And with his status as one of the country's top referees, Webb is a likely choice for Liverpool's matches against bigger sides – sides they are more likely to lose against.

      Of the 22 games he's officiated since the start of 2009/10, 15 have been against United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs or Everton.

      Curiously, in the previous five-year span – between 2004/05 and 2008/09 – Liverpool lost just two of the 19 games refereed by Webb.
      But 14 defeats in 22, starting with a 2-1 defeat at home to Arsenal in December 2009, is staggering.

      Webb is a referee who likes to use context and common sense, but sometimes that conflicts the rules of the game.

      His determination to not ruin the 2010 World Cup final with a red card ultimately saw the game descend into an overphysical war, reminiscent of a saloon brawl in the wild west, with 14 yellow cards (and one red for John Heitinga) shown.

      Perhaps context played some part in his decision to not award Suarez a second penalty on Sunday.

      And until referees are as accountable as players and managers for their performances, the speculation will continue.

      But what cannot be speculated on is how Liverpool struggle in games Webb officiates in.

      Whether he is the best ref in the country is still to be answered, but he most certainly is not the best for Liverpool - for whatever reason that may be.
      http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-howard-webb-not-6718882
      stuey
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      Re: Howard Webb
      Reply #134: Feb 18, 2014 09:24:34 pm
      I hear his da was a copper as well , so to me it looks like LFC are his prime target for discrediting his and his da's profession .

      Both sergeants if I'm not mistaken, not forgetting of course there are still some twisted bas**rds in Sheffield that hold LFC supporters responsible for Hillsborough, to say nothing of Webb snr and jnr having colleagues directly involved in the tragedy.
      All factors of course that would have no influence on Webb discharging his duties as a professional referee; in much the same way as the S.Yorkshire police authority have acted fairly and without impunity since the tragedy. 


      edit: The above is not without touches of profound sarcasm.
      RedPuppy
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      Re: Howard Webb
      Reply #135: Feb 18, 2014 09:34:18 pm
      Is there a way of finding out if he was involved in anyway at Hillborough?

      He was born on 14 July 1971, so I doubt it as on the day he would have been 17 years, 9 months old.
      bigears
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      Re: Howard Webb
      Reply #136: Feb 18, 2014 09:36:21 pm
      Both sergeants if I'm not mistaken, not forgetting of course there are still some twisted bas**rds in Sheffield that hold LFC supporters responsible for Hillsborough, to say nothing of Webb snr and jnr having colleagues directly involved in the tragedy.
      All factors of course that would have no influence on Webb discharging his duties as a professional referee; in much the same way as the S.Yorkshire police authority have acted fairly and without impunity since the tragedy. 


      edit: The above is not without touches of profound sarcasm.
      It's good to have him under the spotlight Stuey and now it's not just us Reds saying it .

      bigears
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      Re: Howard Webb
      Reply #137: Feb 18, 2014 09:38:15 pm
      He was born on 14 July 1971, so I doubt it as on the day he would have been 17 years, 9 months old.
      He looks like he's in his 50's RP.

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