Eminem

Was going to say that. He was known as one of the fiercest underground rappers and Proof, Dre, Snoop etc. all saw that which is why they all loved him and praise him.

I'm sure he'd still know how to diss one's mama and so on and so forth, but he just does it through his rap now.

And as for:

Like I said, Eminem might be classed as one of the best lyricists of all time by the mainstream but the guy gets no shine or props in the hip hop scene.

Kanye, Lil Wayne, Redman etc. all have collaborations with him and they are some of the best hip-hop artists right now.

So he's crap because he's mainstream and doesn't battle anymore? Okay, i get it. To be a good rapper in your opinion, no matter what your potential you should just hold your career in the underground.

Whatever. It's clear you don't like him, but you are just sounding like a broken record now.

Also, seen no props given for his 10 Grammy nominations. Tremendous achievement for a brilliant album.

Dude he is Eminem.

His day's of underground  battling are well and truly gone.

He was the best it's what took him to the top, deny it all you want.

The dude never won a major rap battle, hell he never even got to the final rounds of one.  They didn't take him to the top, his record deal took him to the top.  I don't have anything against that, just pointing out the facts.

Was going to say that. He was known as one of the fiercest underground rappers and Proof, Dre, Snoop etc. all saw that which is why they all loved him and praise him.

I'm sure he'd still know how to diss one's mama and so on and so forth, but he just does it through his rap now.

And as for:

Kanye, Lil Wayne, Redman etc. all have collaborations with him and they are some of the best hip-hop artists right now.

Again, by whom is he known as "one of the fiercest underground rappers"?  I've never seen him in the final rounds of a major rap battle.  Dre and Snoop are studio rappers, they take their time writing their lyrics then kick them over a well produced beat.  That is where their talent lies. 

You're grossly mistaken in thinking that's what rap battles are all about, check some out and you'd be surprised.

Kayne and Lil' Wayne get less props than Eminem.  I don't think anybody in the hip hop industry takes either of them seriously.  Selling records doesn't equate to being the best because if it did, everyone would be bowing down to MC Hammer (of 'U can't touch this' fame) and calling him the best.

So he's crap because he's mainstream and doesn't battle anymore? Okay, i get it. To be a good rapper in your opinion, no matter what your potential you should just hold your career in the underground.

Whatever. It's clear you don't like him, but you are just sounding like a broken record now.

Also, seen no props given for his 10 Grammy nominations. Tremendous achievement for a brilliant album.

No, he's not crap,  just massively overrated.  To be a good rapper, you gotta do what rappers do - flow, rhyme, delivery, literary techniques, battle, freestyle, provoke thought and emotions, etc. - generally speaking you've got to be an MC, microphone controller.  There are plenty of amazing rappers in the big time who go platinum (Talib Kweli, Mos Def, K'Naan, KRS-One, Notorious B.I.G, Run DMC, Lupe Fiasco, etc).  I could go on but you get the point.

I actually loved Eminem's older sh*t (late 90s was pretty bare for hip hop so it was a real breath of fresh air) and am very hot and cold in regards to his newer sh*t, so it's not that I don't like him, I just think he gets way too much props from people and far too many are too quick to class him as the greatest/best of all time.  Had no idea about his 10 Grammy achievements (not something I follow, I'm sure you could understand why I wouldn't know about it), it is a good effort but I'd laugh if he actually rocked up on the night seeing as he's openly dissed the grammy awards before.

Lupe Fiasco isn't even a rapper. He quit that when he was very young because he hated the message he was sending out. He became a lyricist and hip hopper. Oh, and not to mention Lupe praised Eminem and they have a song out.

Fantastic talent and missunderstood.

Fantastic talent and missunderstood.

He is a lyrical genius.

Lupe Fiasco isn't even a rapper. He quit that when he was very young because he hated the message he was sending out. He became a lyricist and hip hopper. Oh, and not to mention Lupe praised Eminem and they have a song out.

Lupe IS a rapper (see: "How to Rap: The Art & Science of the Hip-Hop MC", The gospel of Hip-Hop: The first instrument, Book of rhymes: The poetic of hip-hop etc).  A lyricist is a style of rapper, a 'hip hopper' isn't a term I've ever heard used before in my many years of following rap/hip-hop.  Like I said, Eminem is good, so it wouldn't be uncommon or out of place for an artist like Lupe to praise him or work with him on a track.  All I'm saying is that Eminem gets way too much shine for being an average rapper.

Do give him some credit for breaking in to a predominantly black genre and breaking in to mainstream.

No Vanilla Ice does not count.

Do give him some credit for breaking in to a predominantly black genre and breaking in to mainstream.

No Vanilla Ice does not count.

Actually I give him credit for his multi-syllabic rhyming when he does it, problem is he doesn't always do it - he's very inconsistent.  The major consumer of hip hop music has changed (along with the direction of hip-hop and the emphasis on what hip hop is; it's getting tiresome hearing about how you're the best on every track, it's getting boring hearing about guns, bitches, drug use and bling constantly).  Many years ago it was very much a "black genre", these days it's suburban teenage Caucasians who are your primary market, doesn't surprise me in the slightest that a white guy made it big - his name happened to be Eminem.

If you're going to discount Vanilla Ice on the basis he gets no props in the game, then you've got to discount Eminem because the industry hasn't taken him seriously since about 2000.  Fair's fair.  If you're discounting Vanilla Ice because he only had one "hit", then fair enough.  Although, it's not his fault his marketing department wasn't as good as Eminem's.  Like I said, he is talented and there's no doubt about it, it's just such a shame he only uses it for a few select tracks and gets more credit than guys who are far more clever lyrically, more consistent and actually have a diverse range of subject matters to rap about.

picking a fight with a pop star really speaks volumes about him

Let's see who else he's picked fights with...

Ja Rule, Benzino, Everlast, Jermaine Dupri, Limp Bizkit, Moby, Royce da 5'9, Twizted.

That's just off the top of my head, there's probably loads more.

In any case, after all of the above, I'm sure he has good reason to be picking a fight with "a pop star".

Most of those he got dragged into or became involved by default (eg. Dre/50/D12).

Ja Rule he got dragged into.  Ja Rule had beef with 50 Cent and Eminem sided with 50.
Benzino had a problem with Eminem and not the other way around, Eminem handled the situation impeccably.
Jermaine Dupri took a swing at Dre, Eminem sided with Dre.
I don't remember how the Limp Bizkit beef started, but they used to be friends (not sure who took a swing at who).
Moby was spot on in his analysis of Eminem.  Really didn't expect Eminem to respond to something outside his niche.
He got dragged into the Royce Da 5'9" beef.  Bizarre from D12 took a swipe at Royce, Eminem sided with D12.
Twizted are part of the ICP/Eminem beef, again not sure who called out who first.

Cage and Canibus are two others that spring to mind.  I know Eminem started the Cage beef (mid 90s, two up and coming white rappers) when he switched up his style and adopted an alter-ego (who we all know as Slim Shady) which was how Cage had made a name for himself battling underground and then Eminem then went on to commercial success and pretty much rubbed it in Cage's face.  Cage took offense and it was on.

Simply can't remember how the Canibus beef started though, I'm sure there's a million resources online but I couldn't be fu**ed finding it.  Part of the rap game is fronting, so I could understand why some beefs get started (many are escalated and exaggerated because they sell DVDs about it) - but it's a very rap thing, no need to pollute other genres with it.  Why would you take the ugliest hip hop has to offer and introduce that to other music instead of the other positive sh*t rap has to offer.

Listen to Eminem and rejoice:

Nicki Minaj ft Eminem-Romans Revenge (NEW 2010)

It really does piss me off that Em has never won out of his own category .

Only 2 f***in Grammy's for this super album. That right there is a f***in insult. Eminem was the best selling artist of 2010 and how the f**k did they give Record Of The Year to Lady antebellum!!!

On another note, how can Empire State of Mind win over Love The Way You Lie.

Everyone says the GRAMMYs hate hip-hop or something along those lines...but they chose Jay-Z over Eminem.

Biased F**kin Cu*ts.

Record figures speak volumes and the lack of recognition he has got from the awards industry is a joke because he is continually topping charts with every song he brings out and every album he releases.

Eminem is no.1.

For true Eminem enthusiasts:

Eminem - Biterphobia

Em's got gradually worse since Encore, Recovery was a slight improvement but as he himself said on that record "Let's be honest, that last "Relapse" CD was ehhh".. The Infinite EP, Marshall Mathers and Slim Shady EP's remain his best work.

Disagree, I much prefer his more recent work to his late 90s early 00s stuff. Although he was funnier back then.

Bores the sh*t out of me nowadays, to be perfectly honest. Think he's had his day.

Disagree, I much prefer his more recent work to his late 90s early 00s stuff. Although he was funnier back then.

Fair play to you anny rd, he now makes more heavy epic tunes like Lose Yourself with catchy choruses and more 'singing'. If that's what you like that's cool, I myself prefer his older stuff where he was far more lyrical and flowed far better. Perhaps you could argue that these days he's far more stark and honest in his lyrics but I really dislike most of his beats in the newer albums as well as his tendency to sing and use that alternate voice (in Relapse).

To give you an example of what I prefer, here's my top 10 em songs, (this is pretty hard...):

10. Love the way you lie
9. Till I Collapse
8. Mosh.
7. Tonite
6. Never Enough
5. Drug Ballad
4. Business
3. Guilty Conscience
2. Renegade (ft Jay z)
1. Infinite

Hard to put them in order really, and I've defo missed quite a few.

Yeah, he is certainly making himself more main stream IMO.

I don't have a preference of an era. I just love his songs that he goes hard in. My favourite songs of his are probably:

Stan
Beautiful
Cleaning out my Closet
Cinderella Man
Amityville
Renegade
Mosh
Lose Yourself
No Love
Forever
25 to Life

But i definitely have missed a few. The songs where he has meaning, spits out stuff that make you think 'Wow, this is real.'

Twizted are part of the ICP/Eminem beef, again not sure who called out who first.

Not sure if I've remembered this correctly but I think 'back in the day' Eminem and ICP were pretty much mates but then Eminem organised a party, kind of a private gig and had flyers made up saying that ICP would be playing without actually asking them. When ICP found out they said they would have played if he'd have bothered to ask but instead told him to do one. Eminem was annoyed by this and started slagging them off to the media in interviews, leading to both sides slagging each other off in song lyrics (ICP's 'Please Don't Hate Me' is pretty funny). I think they've made up now.

crouch - I hate that song Forever, or at least I hate the first two verses, Drake's and Kanye Wests. Lil Waynes is ok but Eminem just fookin rips it all up in that last verse. It's the complete opposite of the other three's slow drawling 'rap', and its almost as if Em is doing it deliberately to show which is better; "he's wondering if he should spit this slow, f**k no, go for broke". As you say, he goes haaaaaard

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Just read most of that debate on the last page and while I agree and disagree with everyone there on the whole I think you're wrong vitez. Eminem is a strong lyricist and his earlier work is full of evidence for it. You chose a song there that suited you're means (when listing it's rhymes or lack of) so I'll choose one that suits my argument, Infinite. You seem to know your stuff so Im sure you've heard it and so I invite you to say Em doesnt rhyme or flow having just listened to that masterpiece.

Oh and props for posting RA's Uncommon Valor. One of the best verses in hip hop of all time.

crouch - I hate that song Forever, or at least I hate the first two verses, Drake's and Kanye Wests. Lil Waynes is ok but Eminem just fookin rips it all up in that last verse. It's the complete opposite of the other three's slow drawling 'rap', and its almost as if Em is doing it deliberately to show which is better; "he's wondering if he should spit this slow, F**k no, go for broke". As you say, he goes haaaaaard

Personally, i think Drake isn't worthy of being called a rapper. He's crap. Kanye, i love his music, but he should stick to what he does best with his hip/hop and leave the rest to the actual rappers. Lil Wayne, i don't like his music all too much but when he combines with Eminem they never fail at making brilliant rhymes and they mesh well together. Em though just rips that track. I love those songs when he does that where he just goes hard and fucks everyone else up.