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      Shields Refused Pardon

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      redkenny
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      Re: Shields Refused Pardon
      Reply #46: Jul 02, 2009 10:56:39 pm
      I have to say Liverpool FC's conduct in all of this sits very uneasily with me. Involving players and fans in a criminal case is wrong in my opinion. The fact that this guy was found guilty in court and has not been pardoned today casts Liverpool FC's conduct in a very poor light. Football clubs should have nothing to do with individuals' legal affairs. I think LFC have been left with egg on their face over this one.
      Just to clarify- I mean no disrespect to the man or his family, but this has turned into mob rule. Were you there? Did you see what happened? Because if the answer to that is no, who are you to say he's innocent? He's been through due process- whatever your legal opinions are- and he's been found guilty. He was sentenced to 30 years, yet he'll be out this time next year! I think people have got carried away with themselves on this, and the club was ill-advised to get involved.

      To those who disagree with me, and I'm sure there are a few: I'm a Liverpool fan, just like you, giving my honest opinion. If you don't want to hear it, maybe you shouldn't be reading a forum!
      A lot of the problems I have with this whole thing are contained in your post.
      Firstly, as you say, I'm sure it is tough being in prison. I have no doubt that the lad is suffering. But, we are in no position to decide his guilt or innocence. You say that the case 'wouldn't have made it to a courtroom here there are so many holes in it'. Well, I'm not in the legal profession, and unless you are, you can't make that claim. All you, me or anyone know about the case is what is in the papers. Is that the full story? Have things been held back? Has everything been reported, or are there some things off limits? I don't know, you don't know, and LFC don't know.
      Secondly, you cite 'the look on Michael's face when he was convicted'. With all due respect, that can hardly be considered proof of innocence or guilt.
      Thirdly, you say that when he is released he will probably fight to clear his name. He is of course entitled to do that, as a private citizen, but my main point is that LFC should never have got involved in this process. The bottom line is we only know what we read in the papers. People are talking on here as if they were there, or know the guy personally, and as a result, mob rule has prevailed. We don't know what happened, or what this guy is like. Threfore we, and LFC, should keep our noses out.

      Let the discussion flow for people who are interested in finding out what happened? Is this what this thread is about? Chinese whispers? That's my point- nobody on here knows what happened. Anyone who says otherwise is misguided.

      Was expecting a new member to pop on here and talk nothing other than Michael Shields today. Going by your posts before I type this out, you're obviously only here with one agenda in mind. Or shall we take that to court and prove that as well?

      Exactly what you are saying about people not being there not being in the know can be turned around and said to you too. Just because someone is tried and tested in a court of law does not mean the outcome equals the truth.

      Tennis balls were being called out by umpires for years at Wimbledon - some even deciding the fate of history in that sport. All because what one person alone said. Under a closer examination these days, an aid to the umpire to change decisions that were wrongly called, justice is truly done.

      Not everything is set in stone. Politicians! People who are supposed to be honourable. Representatives of people. A good majority of these honourable people have been taking the piss out of the hard working tax payers of this country. But because they're honourable representatives, by your logic, it's alright for them to take the piss?

      Your honest opinion tells me you haven't got a mind of your own. Although I doubt you're genuine anyway.

      You can disagree all you want and try to pick points up on what I've said. But don't come on here telling people that maybe they shouldn't be reading a forum. You've only signed up here to pick holes in people wanting justice.

      And by the way. When you clicked on 'I agree to the forum rules' when you signed up. Did you miss the bit that said the admin and mods support Justice For Michael Shields?

      If I delete you. Will you take me to court.  :f_whistle:

      CRK
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      Re: Shields Refused Pardon
      Reply #47: Jul 02, 2009 10:56:47 pm
      And what's your source for all this? The News of the World, or some similar gutter paper?

      BBC, Liverpool Echo, Daily Mail, The Guardian, The Times...

      To name but a few.

      If you're going to be scantilly ommitant of facts that are contrary to your own argument, at least make the other half of it a little more convincing.

      The fact is, Michael Shields went down for something someone else confessed to. And the fact that he is still in jail pisses some of us off. So please excuse us if we feel mildly aggrieved that you want to come on here, accuse us of being wrong to support the lad because we aren't all solicitors and that we're all sheep because we're united in our anger with the decision.
      zodiac
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      Re: Shields Refused Pardon
      Reply #48: Jul 02, 2009 10:58:28 pm
      Behave.

      All the things listed by Venison86 would more than make for an unsound conviction in any court of law.

      The whole thing is a farce.  



      Irrespective of 'not knowing what went on' - the very fact that the original court case was such a farce means that at the very least a retrial is deserved.

      OK, I apologise for any offense for the NOTW comment. Look, I'm not on here to argue for Bulgaria. I'm just questioning the wisdom of LFC getting involved in something like this. In my opinion, this has become a bandwagon and LFC are setting a dangerous precedent by getting involved.
      stuey
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      Re: Shields Refused Pardon
      Reply #49: Jul 02, 2009 11:02:25 pm
      OK, I apologise for any offense for the NOTW comment. Look, I'm not on here to argue for Bulgaria. I'm just questioning the wisdom of LFC getting involved in something like this. In my opinion, this has become a bandwagon and LFC are setting a dangerous precedent by getting involved.
      If the precedent is putting right injustice it will catch on
      JD
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      Re: Shields Refused Pardon
      Reply #50: Jul 02, 2009 11:04:11 pm
      OK, I apologise for any offense for the NOTW comment. Look, I'm not on here to argue for Bulgaria. I'm just questioning the wisdom of LFC getting involved in something like this. In my opinion, this has become a bandwagon and LFC are setting a dangerous precedent by getting involved.

      Okay. I accept your apology for suggesting we sit here reading that rag.

      If you're specific point is that the football club shouldn't have got involved with the support of the Shields case then my point would be this.

      The football club, in theory, exists solely because of the support of the fans.  In Liverpool, which is the home of the club, feelings amongst the vast majority of the Liverpudlian fans run exceptionally strong in support of Michael Shields and therefore the club has a duty to respect the views of its fans and paying customers.

      Now I am sure there are 'some' Liverpool fans out there who still read The Sun and believe what they wrote in April 1989 - by your logic you are suggesting the clubs shouldn't allow fans to hold up a 'Justice' sign across the Kop?

      I pride myself on the fact that our club is like no other.
      zodiac
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      Re: Shields Refused Pardon
      Reply #51: Jul 02, 2009 11:05:51 pm
      But don't come on here telling people that maybe they shouldn't be reading a forum.

      And by the way. When you clicked on 'I agree to the forum rules' when you signed up. Did you miss the bit that said the admin and mods support Justice For Michael Shields?



      1. I never said people 'shouldn't read a forum'
      2. I have posted on other topics
      3. I have read the terms, and just because the Mods support the campaing, doesn't mean we all have to.

      Delete me if you want, but nothing I don't think I've said anything offensive here. I'm not trying to wind people up, I'm just articulating an alternative point of view. I'm not saying this lad is guilty of anything, all I'm saying is LFC should not get involved. Your comment that I can't think for myself is ironic considering I am the only one on here offering an alternative viewpoint, which a lot of you can't seem able to handle. I know the majority of fans think he should be freed, and therefore the club should do something, but as I say, football and politics shouldn't mix.
      stuey
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      Re: Shields Refused Pardon
      Reply #52: Jul 02, 2009 11:16:37 pm
      1. I never said people 'shouldn't read a forum'
      2. I have posted on other topics
      3. I have read the terms, and just because the Mods support the campaing, doesn't mean we all have to.

      Delete me if you want, but nothing I don't think I've said anything offensive here. I'm not trying to wind people up, I'm just articulating an alternative point of view. I'm not saying this lad is guilty of anything, all I'm saying is LFC should not get involved. Your comment that I can't think for myself is ironic considering I am the only one on here offering an alternative viewpoint, which a lot of you can't seem able to handle. I know the majority of fans think he should be freed, and therefore the club should do something, but as I say, football and politics shouldn't mix.
      There's nothing alternative about your opinions Michael Shields and his family have had to fight bigotry such as yours from day one.Qualified people have travelled to Bulgaria reviewed the case and concluded that the verdict was unsound.
      zodiac
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      Re: Shields Refused Pardon
      Reply #53: Jul 02, 2009 11:20:28 pm
      There's nothing alternative about your opinions Michael Shields and his family have had to fight bigotry such as yours from day one.Qualified people have travelled to Bulgaria reviewed the case and concluded that the verdict was unsound.

      Pardon me, how exactly am I a bigot?! I'll say it again: I'm not here to defend the Bulgarian legal system, what I am saying is that LFC should not get involved in individuals' legal cases. It sets a dangerous precedent; who knows where it will end.
      CRK
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      Re: Shields Refused Pardon
      Reply #54: Jul 02, 2009 11:33:52 pm
      Pardon me, how exactly am I a bigot?! I'll say it again: I'm not here to defend the Bulgarian legal system, what I am saying is that LFC should not get involved in individuals' legal cases. It sets a dangerous precedent; who knows where it will end.

      The few things Liverpool have stood up for justice for?

      - Hillsborough
      - Rhys Jones
      - Michael Shields.

      We're hardly being condemned as a football club.
      dunlop liddell shankly
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      Re: Shields Refused Pardon
      Reply #55: Jul 02, 2009 11:37:36 pm
      So did you not agree with God when he lifted his shirt up to show support to the Dockers? Was that Liverpool Football Club doing the wrong thing as well.
      Venison 86
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      Re: Shields Refused Pardon
      Reply #56: Jul 02, 2009 11:46:14 pm
      Pardon me, how exactly am I a bigot?! I'll say it again: I'm not here to defend the Bulgarian legal system, what I am saying is that LFC should not get involved in individuals' legal cases. It sets a dangerous precedent; who knows where it will end.

      Heaven forbid it might just lead to some justice, So by your logic we should not be supporting Anne Williams in her fight for the truth and justice.
      redkenny
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      Re: Shields Refused Pardon
      Reply #57: Jul 02, 2009 11:48:50 pm
      Pardon me, how exactly am I a bigot?! I'll say it again: I'm not here to defend the Bulgarian legal system, what I am saying is that LFC should not get involved in individuals' legal cases. It sets a dangerous precedent; who knows where it will end.

      Yeah. OK.

      Does it look like anyone's arsed about what precedent it sets? Tell us mindless people what danger is involved?

      RedWilly
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      Re: Shields Refused Pardon
      Reply #58: Jul 02, 2009 11:54:08 pm
      Complete disgrace, everyone knows that he is innocent, surely a signed confession is enough evidence, oh and a few witnesses confirming he was with them to.

      This government, or unfortunately any government in this country will never have the balls to stick up for their people and put them before relations with another country.

      Keep fighting Michael, got thousands fighting with you.
      stuey
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      Re: Shields Refused Pardon
      Reply #59: Jul 03, 2009 12:05:27 am
      Pardon me, how exactly am I a bigot?! I'll say it again: I'm not here to defend the Bulgarian legal system, what I am saying is that LFC should not get involved in individuals' legal cases. It sets a dangerous precedent; who knows where it will end.
      The Bulgarian legal system cannot be defended it fell at the first hurdle,I am curious as to how you qualify precedent because the actions of LFC can only be seen as a logical reaction to the injustice that befell one of its supporters and the vast majority would expect the club to take this action as a matter of course and any other organisation for that matter.
      dunlop liddell shankly
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      Re: Shields Refused Pardon
      Reply #60: Jul 03, 2009 12:25:26 am
      Father reacts to Shields decision (think it may just be for those in the uk)
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Shields Refused Pardon
      Reply #61: Jul 03, 2009 12:34:12 am
      I have to say Liverpool FC's conduct in all of this sits very uneasily with me. Involving players and fans in a criminal case is wrong in my opinion. The fact that this guy was found guilty in court and has not been pardoned today casts Liverpool FC's conduct in a very poor light. Football clubs should have nothing to do with individuals' legal affairs. I think LFC have been left with egg on their face over this one.

      Erm the last time I heard such verbal atrocities it was exiting my anus as a pffftttttttt
      Dadorious
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      Re: Shields Refused Pardon
      Reply #62: Jul 03, 2009 12:43:48 am
      Zodiac go and piss off mate, you are nothing but a sh*t stirrer.

      Absolutely disgraceful this decison. Really feel for Michael and his family.

      YNWA
      JD
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      Re: Shields Refused Pardon
      Reply #63: Jul 03, 2009 01:26:20 am
      Seeing that interview with his Dad is heart-breaking.

      It's a disgrace he has been jailed for 4 years - never mind the fact that the UK government are extending his torture.

      I feel thoroughly ashamed to be British.
      AussieRed
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      Re: Shields Refused Pardon
      Reply #64: Jul 03, 2009 02:14:57 am
      F***ing disgraceful decision by that Straw c**t.

      He had an opportunity to in some ways right a wrong but the pr**k has failed miserably.  :f_steam:
      ayrton77
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      Re: Shields Refused Pardon
      Reply #65: Jul 03, 2009 06:58:20 am
      Well this thread has almost been ruined. ::)

      An innocent man remains in prison for something he didn't do. F***ing disgraceful decision, why this can't be taken to a retrial I don't know, there are so many doubts over the original conviction it only makes sense.

      Makes the legal system look a joke (not the first time). I always thought we were innocent until proven guilty, and if the manner by which Michael was proven guilty wasn't founded on the truth then he should be released. Awful, awful stuff.

      I feel terrible for Michael and everyone close to him, I hope they can remain strong in these dark times and keep the battle for justice going.

      I hope Straw chokes on his dinner.
      Kaysea
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      Re: Shields Refused Pardon
      Reply #66: Jul 03, 2009 07:30:45 am
      My heart goes out to the Shields family.   I think his father was brave being able to hold himself together after the news they had just had.  Have to agree with ayrton77, I hope Straw chokes.  A$$hole!
      Fan 86
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      Re: Shields Refused Pardon
      Reply #67: Jul 03, 2009 08:42:49 am
      This is my first post. Have registered today because of this subject.I cannot believe this desicion. Poor micheal Shields,always thought he had a chance of getting out for christmas and now this. Jack Straw should be ashamed of himself. :f_steam:
      johnstop
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      Re: Shields Refused Pardon
      Reply #68: Jul 03, 2009 11:35:16 am
      This is a cynical political act to prove this Government has some Authority nothing more they are completely Shameless. The barbaric Murderers of James Bulger are free with new identities whilst and 80 year old disabled man and an innocent 22 year old are kept behind bars how dare we say we are a free country.This is another example of Authoritarian Government keeping the little man in his place.

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