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      Have we progressed under Rafa Benitez given the money he has spent ?

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      RedLFCBlood
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      Have we progressed under Rafa Benitez given the money he has spent ?
      Nov 26, 2009 05:39:00 pm
      The question I have asked is Have we progressed under Rafa since he took over from Houllier given the money he has spent ?
       
      To get a consensus of opinion we will start with the Squad Rafa inherited from Houllier, we will look at transfers in and outs, his expenditure/incomings and even Net spending if you want to take that into consideration, we will even look at how his signings have altered his squad year by year and then form an opinion based on that.

      Please bear in mind when making your opinion about the Monies we will have received from Champions League and Domestic Football both in the league and cup competitions.

      2003/2004 Squad Rafa inherited from Houllier

      1  Jerzy Dudek
      22 Christopher Kirkland
      29 Patrice Luzi
      23 Jamie Carragher
      3 Stephen Finnan
      2 Stéphane Henchoz
      4 Sami Hyypiä
      18 John Arne Riise
      21 Djimi Traoré
      37 Zak Whitbread
      25 Igor Biscan
      28 Bruno Cheyrou
      15 Salif Alassane Diao
      17 Steven Gerrard
      16 Dietmar Hamann
      7 Harry Kewell
      20 Anthony Le Tallec
      13 Danny Murphy
      26 Ritchie Partridge
      34 Darren Potter
      11 Vladimir Smicer
      32 John Welsh
      5 Milan Baros
      9 El Hadji Diouf
      8 Emile Heskey
      10 Michael Owen
      24 Florent Sinama-Pongolle

      2004/05 Rafa gets the opportunity to start putting his own stamp on the team

      2004/05 Transfers In
       
      £2m - Josemi
      £1.5m - Antonio Nunez
      £10.7m - Xabi Alonso
      £6m - Luis Garcia
      Free – Pelligrino
      £6.3m - Fernando Morientes
      £1m - Scott Carson
       
      Total bought: £27.5m

      2004/05 Transfers out
       
      Free - Marcus Babbel
      £2.5m - Danny Murphy
      £8.5m - Michael Owen
      Free - Stephane Henchoz

      Total sold: £11m

      2004/05 net spend: £16.5m left our squad looking something like this:

      20 Scott Carson
      1 Jerzy Dudek
      22 Chris Kirkland
      29 Patrice Luzi
      23 Jamie Carragher
      3 Steve Finnan
      4 Sami Hyypiä
      17 Josemi Josemi
      36 Jon Otsemobor
      12 Mauricio Andres Pellegrino
      31 David Raven
      6 John Arne Riise
      21 Djimi Traoré
      28 Stephen Warnock
      37 Zak Whitbread
      25 Igor Biscan
      8 Steven Gerrard
      16 Dietmar Hamann
      7 Harry Kewell
      10 Luis Garcia
      18 Antonio Nunez
      26 Ritchie Partridge
      11 Vladimir Smicer
      32 John Welsh
      14 Xabi Alonso
      5 Milan Baros
      9 Djibrill Cissé
      13 Anthony Le Tallec
      33 Neil Mellor
      19 Fernando Morientes
      24 Florent Sinama
       
      2005/06 Transfers in
       
      £240,000 - Antonio Barragan
      Free - Boudewijn Zenden
      £6m - Pepe Reina
      £5.6m - Momo Sissoko
      £7m - Peter Crouch
      Unkown - Miki Roque
      £150,000 - Jack Hobbs
      £190,000 Besian Idrizaj
      £1.5m - Mark Gonzales
      Exchange - Paul Anderson
      Exchange - Jan Kromkamp
      £5.8m - Daniel Agger
      £250,000 - David Martin
      Free - Robbie Fowler
       
      Total bought: £26.73

      2005/06 Transfers out

      Free - Vladimir Smicer
      £3.5m - El Hadji Diouf
      Free – Pellegrino
      £2m - Alou Diarra.
      £2m - Antonio Nunez
      £6.5m - Milan Baros
      Exchange - John Welsh
      Exchange - Josemi
       
      Total sold: £14m
       
      2005/06 net spend: £12.73m left our squad looking something like this:

      20 Scott Carson
      1 Jerzy Dudek
      David Martin
      25 José Manuel Reina
      5 Daniel Agger
      36 Antonio Barragan
      23 Jamie Carragher
      3 Steve Finnan
      4 Sami Hyypiä
      2 Jan Kromkamp
      6 John Arne Riise
      21 Djimi Traoré
      28 Stephen Warnock
      37 Zak Whitbread
      8 Steven Gerrard
      16 Dietmar Hamann
      7 Harry Kewell
      10 Luis Garcia
      22 Mohamed Lamine Sissoko
      14 Xabi Alonso
      30 Boudewijn Zenden
      9 Djibrill Cissé
      15 Peter Crouch
      11 Robbie Fowler
      19 Fernando Morientes

      2006/07 Transfers In
       
      £6m - Craig Bellamy
      £2m - Gabriel Palletta
      Free - Fabio Aurelio
      £6.7m - Jermaine Pennant
      £9m - Dirk Kuyt
      £200,000 - Nabil El Zhar
      £750,000 - Astrit Ajdarevic
      Loan - Daniele Padelli
      Undisclosed - Jordy Brouwer
      £2.5m - Alvaro Arbeloa
      Loan - Javier Mascherano Paid £18.6m for him a year later at end of loan deal.
       
      Total bought: £27.15m

      2006/07 Transfers Out
       
      £200,000 - Zak Whitbread
      Undisclosed - Bruno Cheyrou
      £3m - Fernando Morientes
      Free - Didi Hamann
      £675,000 - Antonio Barragan
      £2m - Djimi Traore
      £500,000 - Neil Mellor
      £1.75m - Jan Kromkamp
      £525,000 - Darren Potter
      £1.5m - Steven Warnock
      Free - Salif Diao
       
      Total sold: £10.15m
       
      2006/07 net spend: £17m left our squad looking something like this:

      1 Jerzy Dudek
      40 David Martin
      30 Daniele Padelli
      25 José Manuel Reina
      5 Daniel Agger
      2 Álvaro Arbeloa
      23 Jamie Carragher
      39 Stephen Darby
      12 Fábio Aurélio
      3 Steve Finnan
      4 Sami Hyypiä
      34 Miki Roque
      29 Gabriel Paletta
      37 Lee Peltier
      6 John Arne Riise
      26 Paul Anderson
      8 Steven Gerrard
      7 Harry Kewell
      10 Luis Garcia
      20 Javier Mascherano
      16 Jermaine Pennant
      22 Mohamed Lamine Sissoko
      14 Xabi Alonso
      32 Boudewijn Zenden
      17 Craig Bellamy
      15 Peter Crouch
      42 Nabil El Zhar
      9 Robbie Fowler
      11 Mark González
      18 Dirk Kuyt
      38 Craig Lindfield
       
      2007/08 Transfers in
       
       
      £5m - Lucas Leiva:
      Undisclosed - Krisztian Nemeth
      £270,000 - Mikel San Jose Dominguez
      £1.8m - Sebastian Leto
      £20.2m - Fernando Torres
      Free - Andriy Voronin
      £5m - Yossi Benayoun
      £11.5m - Ryan Babel
      Undisclosed - Charles Itandje
      £1.3m - Emiliano Insua
      £6.5m - Martin Skrtel
      £18.6m - Javier Mascherano

      Total bought: £70.7m

      2007/08 Transfers Out

      £2.7m – Florent Simana-Pongolle
      £100,000 – Daniel O’Donnell
      Free – Jerzy Dudek
      Free - Zenden
      Free – Robbie Fowler
      £4m – Luis Garcia
      £6m – Djibril Cisse
      £7.5m – Craig Bellamy
      £3.5m – Mark Gonzales
      £1.2m – Gabriel Palletta
      £3.5m – Chris Kirkland
      £8.2m – Momo Sissoko

      Total sold: £36.7m

      2007/08 net spend: £34m left our squad looking something like this:

      30. Charles Itandje
      25. Pepe Reina
      40. David Martin
      17. Alvaro Arbeloa
      3. Steve Finnan
      4. Sami Hyypia
      5. Daniel Agger
      6. John Arne Riise
      12. Fabio Aurelio
      23. Jamie Carragher
      37. Martin Skrtel
      48. Emiliano Insua
      14. Xabi Alonso
      11. Yossi Benayoun
      7. Harry Kewell
      8. Steven Gerrard
      19. Ryan Babel
      20. Javier Mascherano
      21. Lucas Levia
      22. Momo Sissoko
      16. Jermaine Pennant
      33. Sebastian Leto
      34. Jay Spearing
      38. Craig Lindfield
      42. Nabil El Zhar
      47. Damien Plessis
      9. Fernando Torres
      10. Andriy Voronin
      15. Peter Crouch
      18. Dirk Kuyt

      2008/09 Transfers In

      Free – Philip Degen
      £7m - Andrea Dossena
      £3.5m – Diego Cavalieri
      £1.5m – David N’gog
      £19m – Robbie Keane
      £8m - Albert Riera

      Total bought: £39m

      2008/09 Transfers Out

      £4m – John Arne Riise
      Free – Harry Kewell
      Undisclosed – Anthony Le Tallec
      £11m – Peter Crouch
      £2.25m – Danny Guthrie
      £3.25m – Scott Carson
      Undisclosed – Steve Finnan
      £16m – Robbie Keane
      Undisclosed – Jack Hobbs

      Total sold: £36.5m

      2008/09 net spend: £2.5m left our squad looking something like this:

      1.
      2. Andrea Dossena
      3. Steve Finnan
      4. Sami Hyypia
      5. Daniel Agger
      6.
      7.
      8. Steven Gerrard
      9. Fernando Torres
      10. Andriy Voronin
      11. Yossi Benayoun
      12. Fabio Aurelio
      14. Xabi Alonso
      15. Peter Crouch
      16. Jermaine Pennant
      17. Alvaro Arbeloa
      18. Dirk Kuyt
      19. Ryan Babel
      20. Javier Mascherano
      21. Lucas Leiva
      22.
      23. Jamie Carragher
      24.
      25. Pepe Reina
      27. Phillip Degen
      33. Sebastien Leto
      34. Miki Roque
      37. Martin Skrtel
      38. Craig Lindfield
      39. Stephen Darby
      40. David Martin
      42. Nabil El Zhar
      48. Emiliano Insua

      2009/10 Transfers In

      £17.5m – Glen Johnson
      £17.1m - Alberto Aquilani
      £2m – Sotirios Kyrgiakos
      £160,000 – Daniel Ayala

      Total bought: £36.76m

      2009/10 Transfers Out

      £250,000 – Paul Anderson
      Free – Jermaine Pennant
      Free – Miki Roque
      £3m – Sebastian Leto
      £3.5m – Alvaro Arbeloa.
      £30m – Xabi Alonso

      Total sold: £36.75m

      2009/10 net spend: £10,000 left our squad looking something like this:

      1.Diego Cavalieri
      2. Glen Johnson
      3. -
      4. Alberto Aquilani
      5. Daniel Agger
      6. -
      7. -
      8. Steven Gerrard
      9. Fernando Torres
      10. Andriy Voronin
      11. Albert Riera
      12. Fabio Aurelio
      13. -
      14. -
      15. Yossi Benayoun
      16. Sotirios Kyrgiakos
      17. -
      18. Dirk Kuyt
      19. Ryan Babel
      20. Javier Mascherano
      21. Lucas Leiva
      22. Emiliano Insua
      23. Jamie Carragher
      24. David Ngog
      25. Pepe Reina
      26. Jay Spearing
      27. Philipp Degen
      28. Damien Plessis
      29. Krisztian Nemeth
      31. Nabil El Zhar
      32. Stephen Darby
      34. Martin Kelly
      37. Martin Skrtel
      38. Andrea Dossena

      Players out on loan:

      Mikel San Jose (Atletico Bilbao, full season)
      Robbie Threlfall – Northampton Town (Month Loan)
      András Simon – Córdoba (Season long loan)
      Nikolay Mihaylov (FC Twente, full season)
      Krisztián Németh – AEK Athens – (Season long loan)
      Charles Itandje – Kavala FC – (Season long loan)

      Total Players Bought: £228,976,000

      Total Players Sold: £145,100,000

      Total Net Spend: £83,876,000


      So, that’s a total spend of just over £83m in 5 years at the club. An average of £16.6m a year.

      2004/05: Finished 5th – 58 pts
      2005/06: Finished 3rd – 82 pts
      2006/07: Finished 3rd – 68 pts
      2007/08: Finished 4th – 76 pts
      2008/09: Finished 2nd – 86 pts

      Now the question I’m asking is simple have we progressed under Rafa ?

      Discuss…

      Please note the squads may not be %100 accurate as they are copied and pasted from various websites, but they will give you some kind of Idea in helping your form your opinion cheers.
      « Last Edit: Mar 31, 2010 10:55:41 pm by Reslivo »
      LFC9
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
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      • 2,277 posts | 22 
      Re: Have we progressed under Rafa Benitez giving the money he has spent ?
      Reply #1: Nov 26, 2009 05:52:51 pm
      When you put it like that and only an FA cup to show from this my answer is no .
           However fair play to you that is some research myfriend (Genius)
      RedLFCBlood
      • Guest
      Re: Have we progressed under Rafa Benitez giving the money he has spent ?
      Reply #2: Nov 26, 2009 06:15:35 pm
      When you put it like that and only an FA cup to show from this my answer is no .
           However fair play to you that is some research myfriend (Genius)

      FA Cup
      Champions league winners
      Champions league runners up
      4 out of 5 top 4 finishes guaranteeing us Champions league football, even though the one that got away we still qualified to defend the Trophy.

      JD
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
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      Re: Have we progressed under Rafa Benitez giving the money he has spent ?
      Reply #3: Nov 26, 2009 06:25:10 pm
      Given the money he has had available I think we've been punching above our weight.

      Last two seasons we've had practically nothing in new investment in the players.  To get us so close to winning the league title last year was a huge over-achievement given the budget.

      I'd be interested to know where our spending over the last two years ranks compared to other Premier League teams because I would have a fair bet that we are in the bottom 5 of 20 teams.

      I remember the years of never being in the Champions League, never having any hope at all in the Premier League so it is fairly obvious, that putting aside our past two months, he has moved Liverpool forward - against the odds.
      LiverpoolJay
      • Forum Ian St John
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      • 433 posts |
      • Never lose hope
      Re: Have we progressed under Rafa Benitez giving the money he has spent ?
      Reply #4: Nov 26, 2009 06:26:37 pm
      I think we have progressed under Rafa, as REDLFC stated we have a couple of trophies and a CL runners up medal, which is think speaks for itself

      However, given the average of £16M spent per year you would expect a squad with more depth and more quality depth, Rafa has made some quality signings: Reina, Alonso, Momo, Torres to name a few, but feel this is heavly outweighed by the "squad" players he has brought which dont seem to have the quality for the level we aim to play at, and he has also spent a of money on these squad players; Dossena £7M and Pennant £6.7M and i feel that has where he has let us down over the past
      RedLFCBlood
      • Guest
      Re: Have we progressed under Rafa Benitez giving the money he has spent ?
      Reply #5: Nov 26, 2009 06:29:05 pm
      Given the money he has had available I think we've been punching above our weight.

      Last two seasons we've had practically nothing in new investment in the players.  To get us so close to winning the league title last year was a huge over-achievement given the budget.

      I'd be interested to know where our spending over the last two years ranks compared to other Premier League teams because I would have a fair bet that we are in the bottom 5 of 20 teams.

      I remember the years of never being in the Champions League, never having any hope at all in the Premier League so it is fairly obvious, that putting aside our past two months, he has moved Liverpool forward - against the odds.

      Have to agree with you there JD, and when you take into consideration that injuries have played as big a part in our current plight than anything else, its not fair to judge Rafa on the past two months, how ever it is fair to judge him over his tenure and IMO we have progressed.
      Brian78
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      Re: Have we progressed under Rafa Benitez giving the money he has spent ?
      Reply #6: Nov 26, 2009 06:45:35 pm
      Considering that for at last 2 seasons Ive thought we were in with a belter of a chance to win the league, we won the European cup once been to the fianl once and contested every other cl to the point where we look like we would win it bar 2006 then yes is the simple answer
      bartman49
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
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      Re: Have we progressed under Rafa Benitez giving the money he has spent ?
      Reply #7: Nov 26, 2009 06:52:24 pm
      I have seen all these stats before and what they show is for three seasons everything went to plan, and then the owners put the brakes on, we have all seen the net spend, against our rivals net spend, ours is only half as much except maybe Arsenal, Wenger has taken a different rout to everyone else.

      So we basically had what we have now from the year 2007 onwards, Every window since then has been one big player surrounded by small fee players, not Rafa's choice I think, Even this season we lost a player we did not want to, and had to bring one in at the end of the transfer season in Aquilani' we had injuries and wanted to buy a centre half, Rafa was given 1-5 mill, out of the money left over from the Alonso sale. He had 14 mill he was not allowed to touch. I did here somwhere it was more than that.

      So yes he has been a huge success, it's just a pity other people at this club do not recognise what we have, since 07 these people have let this club drift and if we have done well it's because of Benitez and the backroom staff, Rafa has proved his big buys have all been successful and even the one he let go he made sure he retrieved the money laid out.

      I do not believe these owners when they say they want success, all that would do is make it harder for them to keep the status quo, what they want is pounds coming in without having to pay out, they want it this way.
      andylfcynwa
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      Re: Have we progressed under Rafa Benitez giving the money he has spent ?
      Reply #8: Nov 26, 2009 06:54:46 pm
      Just how can you expect a vastly improved squad with a  budget of 16 mil a season as JD pointed out i bet we are close to the bottom five not the top five , and i as well think we have over achieved if anything especially last term .
      Rafa has done well to even keep us in the game, to even get close we need a fully fit squad firing an all cylinders and unfortunately for Rafa and us this has not happened ,so we were always going to struggle with an unfit core unit ,people quickly forget but lets see where Rafa gets us to in may.I think a few will be surprised.
      solodee
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      Re: Have we progressed under Rafa Benitez giving the money he has spent ?
      Reply #9: Nov 26, 2009 07:11:11 pm
      Rafa is tried. He makes mistakes but he deserves credit for his effort.
      CRK
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      Re: Have we progressed under Rafa Benitez giving the money he has spent ?
      Reply #10: Nov 26, 2009 07:11:13 pm
      I have seen all these stats before and what they show is for three seasons everything went to plan, and then the owners put the brakes on, we have all seen the net spend, against our rivals net spend, ours is only half as much except maybe Arsenal, Wenger has taken a different rout to everyone else.
      I do not believe these owners when they say they want success, all that would do is make it harder for them to keep the status quo, what they want is pounds coming in without having to pay out, they want it this way.

      You're bang right about the first 2 or 3 years. The owners f*cked things up.

      I'd have to agree with the fact we have been punching above our weight in terms of Net Spend. The papers would never allow anyone to say that though.

      Only today in the Mirror. They're making out Benitez has spent a lot more than we all know;

      (Net Spend. Past 5 years)

      - Liverpool - £103m
      - Chelsea - £166m
      - Man Utd - £35m
      - Arsenal - -£1m

      Pretend statistics always make their point look better don't they?
      bri1970
      • Forum Alan Hansen
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      Re: Have we progressed under Rafa Benitez giving the money he has spent ?
      Reply #11: Nov 26, 2009 07:22:47 pm
      I think we have progressesd each season under Rafa but i do think what has gone on behind the scenes at the club have hindered him.It could have been so much better if we could have got the players he really wanted.There is so much more to come from Rafa if we can get the stability of the club sorted.
      dunlop liddell shankly
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      Re: Have we progressed under Rafa Benitez giving the money he has spent ?
      Reply #12: Nov 26, 2009 07:32:57 pm
      Yes.

      Simply because of where Houllier left us. Houllier left us as a very average side going nowhere. So for Benitez to win the European Cup and FA Cup took us to a higher level that under Houllier we wouldn't of reached. The following two years (06-07 and 07-08) we stood still and did not kick on at all. Last season we improved again, went that much further than we had done in recent years but this year we've again not kicked on. We may of even gone backwards.

      So from the side Houllier left to the side we have now, yes we have progressed. It'd be foolish to say otherwise.

      Have we progressed far enough? No we haven't.
      whyohwhyohwhy
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      Re: Have we progressed under Rafa Benitez giving the money he has spent ?
      Reply #13: Nov 26, 2009 08:08:47 pm
      Yes, I think we have progressed massively since Rafa took over.  Look at our record under him, 2 CL finals, winning one, winning the FA cup, four consecutive top four finishes in the league.  Last season we started to play breathtaking football and only just missed out on THE prize we all dream of.  Rafa's plan was coming together.  This season, well it has been a disaster so far, thanks to an unbelievable run of injuries and pure bad luck, like stupid F***ing beachballs, american football/rugby stylee blocks with hands not ending up with a penalty, offside equalisers being allowed, etc.  Added to that the inexpilcabe poor form of some of our stars from last year, our Xabi replacement being out for two months longer than first anticipated/advised by experts, we have struggled and we are badly lacking confidence atm.  I hope a couple of wins, starting with our 2nd in a row on Sunday will help with that side of things and we can push on and get the most out of what is left this season.  And there's still a fair bit to play for.

      Quite honestly, at the start of this season, I don't think my expectations have been so high since the late 80's, and I thank Rafa for that.  Look at the "backing" he gets from the owners.  Non-F***ing-existant.  And yet he is still here.  Thank you Rafa.
      Ard Mhacha Red
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      Re: Have we progressed under Rafa Benitez giving the money he has spent ?
      Reply #14: Nov 26, 2009 08:35:42 pm
      Yes.

      Simply because of where Houllier left us. Houllier left us as a very average side going nowhere. So for Benitez to win the European Cup and FA Cup took us to a higher level that under Houllier we wouldn't of reached. The following two years (06-07 and 07-08) we stood still and did not kick on at all. Last season we improved again, went that much further than we had done in recent years but this year we've again not kicked on. We may of even gone backwards.

      So from the side Houllier left to the side we have now, yes we have progressed. It'd be foolish to say otherwise.

      Have we progressed far enough? No we haven't.

      I'd pretty much go along with that.  I think we have progressed, but everytime we look as if we are going to take that final step it goes tits up.  There is no doubt for me that the squad today is much better than the one that won the CL in 2005, but ultimately every manager in the last 20 years will be judged on the performance in the premier league. 

      In this regard, we have improved....but not enough, and it wont be enough until we win the premiership, and in my opinion we wont win the premiership as long as those two yanks are at our club.....i hate the cu*ts, i really do.  :mad:
      Johncolf
      • Forum Billy Liddell
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      Re: Have we progressed under Rafa Benitez giving the money he has spent ?
      Reply #15: Nov 28, 2009 07:17:04 pm
      I think we have progressed , but my fear is  the quality of the squad  at the moment is quite weak and our bench always lacks striking options  , I think it is  the sell to buy strategy we have had to deal with in the last few years has caught up with us , watching villa v spurs as I am writing this is both teams have both got  plenty of good English players that were there to be had but we chose to go down the forighner route  take Ashley Young / Ryan Babel  both bought for the same fee both looked to have great potential and villa are reaping the rewards  while we invested a lot of money in  a player who never fails to dissapoint and can't wait to get away , tottenham bought Lennon/ Dawson / huddleston  for a combined fee  of about 15m  while we wasted about the same on  Leto / gonzalez/voronin ( free but on massive wages) .
      macca8
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      Re: Have we progressed under Rafa Benitez giving the money he has spent ?
      Reply #16: Nov 28, 2009 08:05:49 pm
      Has Liverpool progressed under Rafa? F**king hell YES!

      When Souness took over Liverpool, we were still a good side considering the talents we had. But Souness single-handedly cursed us. He successfully took us many steps backwards and totally destroyed our basic foundation. Came Houllier and he instantly made some changes. While in the repair mode, still Liverpool were not a superior side they used to be. Even with countless cups won under Houllier, we're still missing the PL and still playing in the 2nd tier of European football. Until his final year that he managed to get us into CL. Liverpool with the glorious and successful history couldn't make any huge buyings and could only managed to get some unknown squad players.

      2005 and starts the Rafalution. Liverpool were still a inferior side with slow recuperation. With his reputation; 2 La Liga titles and UEFA Cup under his belt, he started working with this mediocre group of talent he had (not counting Gerrard, Riise, Hyypia, Hamann, Finnan and Owen) but was handed a huge blow when Owen turned his back and jets off to Madrid. He then bought in Luis Garcia, Xabi Alonso and some other fringe players he then slowly making progress with Liverpool but still we made unknown buyings. But he did the unthinkable;Winning the CL. Nobody could ever figure how the hell he did that with a squad less than capable of reaching the quarter finals. When pitted against a club full of superstars like AC Milan, Rafa won us the 5th CL cup. The fans who were always being fed with 2nd tier European football were shocked and in awe. We did hope that Rafa will guide us back to the fame we used to feel but not this sudden. The euphoria of winning the CL sent thunderous ruptures around the globe and then emerged a new legion of supporters. The breed of glory hunters.

      Because of this sudden fast progress, some of us already setting bigger hopes for Rafa to achieve; the 19th title. While some of us do hopes the same but never did they expect it will be materialized in the blink of the eye. The faithfuls knew that to achieve the success, we have to progress in a steady manner and following the right path. But with restricted budget, Rafa could only bought no more than a 10 million player. Still progress being made under his strict policy.  

      Things got even juicier to the glory hunters when news of the new ownership being officialized and promises of new stadium and new hope of projecting Liverpool into the path we has been through once. With Torres, Babel and Mascherano being bought, it sent a widespread belief between the glory hunters that Rafa will win the 19th title very soon. The peak of their excitement came when we nearly won the title last season.

      But after the all the problems with the owners and now with our lack of consistency, they became restless. Impatience causing them to hit the panic button and blaming Rafa for all the mishaps. Now they are saying that Rafa is not the right man, Rafa's taking Liverpool backwards, Rafa's being too cold and Rafa stubborness killing Liverpool. But they are failing to see, considering the amount of money he got, he still produced quality.

      But for us the faithful, we could the that Rafa's making progress. For us being a 2nd tier football team to a feared team in Europe is considered a success. Beating Mancs 3 times a row in PL is considered progress, ending Chelsea 86 unbeaten home games was considered progress, being the only ENGLISH team capable of beating Barca in Nou Camp was progress, Hammered Madrid 4-0 at home was progress. Progress is not how many cups you won, but how the performance of your team going on year by year and calculate all the years Rafa has been here. In 5 years of Rafa tenure in Liverpool, only this season Liverpool are being under par so I still say it's a progress. If you're talking of Pompey, than that's taking a step back!

       In all, Rafa HAS and WILL make progress but with current ownership I couldn't see any bigger progress then what Rafa could achieved now.
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Have we progressed under Rafa Benitez giving the money he has spent ?
      Reply #17: Nov 28, 2009 08:44:48 pm

      Souness single-handedly cursed us. He successfully took us many steps backwards and totally destroyed our basic foundation. Came Houllier and he instantly made some changes

      Only one problem with that post Macca mate, you missed out Roy Evans in between Souness & Houllier , however I agree with the rest.
      macca8
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      Re: Have we progressed under Rafa Benitez giving the money he has spent ?
      Reply #18: Nov 28, 2009 09:11:57 pm
      Didn't forget about Roy Evans-Houllier then Houllier alone just trying to make it simple...
      bartman49
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      Re: Have we progressed under Rafa Benitez giving the money he has spent ?
      Reply #19: Nov 28, 2009 09:12:06 pm
      Hey DLS where do you get this thing, we were standing still, maybe 06/07 we did, but in 07/08 we kicked on, the 07/08 was the time we got Mascha. Torres, Abeloa, Benayoun, Skrtel, Lucas plus a few others so how you can say we stood still leaves me wondering what you think happened at that time under Benitez.
      arvindram
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      Re: Have we progressed under Rafa Benitez giving the money he has spent ?
      Reply #20: Nov 29, 2009 01:21:08 am
      I have been following football ( that is LFC playing the game ) from 1990's. I've seen eras of Souness, Evans, Evans/Houllier, Houllier, Rafa.

      Which era I prefer best: Rafa

      Reasons:

      -We can beat anyone (Without parking the bus at Nou Camp)  but actually dominating teams like AC Milan, Barca, Juventus and Real Madrid-
      -We are solid against Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal. We can still end up doing doubles on two of them.
      -We have truly world class players. Not good players but the best in their positions: Gerrard, Torres, Mascherano, Carragher and maybe Johnson as wing back. Though we had Owen the sellout and younger Gerrard before they werent the best around.
      -We played more attractive football under Evans but the defence was joke. Yes even worse than now!!! Notably calamity James in goal.
      -We spent relatively less money on transfers these days compared to our competitors but still are almost there bar this season.
      -We almost did it last season. If we had the same team with Johnson in and everyone fit we would have been better this season. Alonso is gone, we could not get the replacement we wanted for have cash we had and had to buy the next best option for long term replacement and have a long injury list.
      -Rafa is a rational person. His decisions are always based on logic rather than instinct. Ask him why he put in Dossena instead of Aquillani and he has a valid reason. Could anyone have done a better job? Apart from Guus Hiddink who can manage with average teams and play attractive football. But again he hasn't won as many things as Rafa did relative to the number of years in management.

      Unlike the other eras, we can all see that we are on the brink of turning the page from the years we had to stand by and watch. We are a force to be reckoned with again. We just need one or two more world class players IMHO.
       
      CRK
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      Re: Have we progressed under Rafa Benitez giving the money he has spent ?
      Reply #21: Nov 29, 2009 08:30:28 am
      I have been following football ( that is LFC playing the game ) from 1990's. I've seen eras of Souness, Evans, Evans/Houllier, Houllier, Rafa.

      Which era I prefer best: Rafa

      Reasons:

      -We can beat anyone (Without parking the bus at Nou Camp)  but actually dominating teams like AC Milan, Barca, Juventus and Real Madrid-
      -We are solid against Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal. We can still end up doing doubles on two of them.
      -We have truly world class players. Not good players but the best in their positions: Gerrard, Torres, Mascherano, Carragher and maybe Johnson as wing back. Though we had Owen the sellout and younger Gerrard before they werent the best around.
      -We played more attractive football under Evans but the defence was joke. Yes even worse than now!!! Notably calamity James in goal.
      -We spent relatively less money on transfers these days compared to our competitors but still are almost there bar this season.
      -We almost did it last season. If we had the same team with Johnson in and everyone fit we would have been better this season. Alonso is gone, we could not get the replacement we wanted for have cash we had and had to buy the next best option for long term replacement and have a long injury list.
      -Rafa is a rational person. His decisions are always based on logic rather than instinct. Ask him why he put in Dossena instead of Aquillani and he has a valid reason. Could anyone have done a better job? Apart from Guus Hiddink who can manage with average teams and play attractive football. But again he hasn't won as many things as Rafa did relative to the number of years in management.

      Unlike the other eras, we can all see that we are on the brink of turning the page from the years we had to stand by and watch. We are a force to be reckoned with again. We just need one or two more world class players IMHO.
       

      Excellent post.

      All of those points make sense yet everyone who slags Rafa seems to disregard this actual evidence, rather than mostly formed opinions.

      We can now, realistically, beat anyone whilst back in the day it was a park the bus and hope job. And the fact that the other teams seem to talk about us so much shows how we're in the back of their minds leading up to big games.

      So yes, I do think we have progressed while Rafa has been in charge. This year is simply a slip up, due to injuries and a lack of strenghtening in the squad.

      Also, you mention Guus Hiddink as a man who can manage an average team. I think Benitez might even stump him on that, with what he did in 2004/2005, with a team he mostly didn't rate. (Traore, Biscan, Smicer, all these players got Champions League medals.) Hiddink's had much longer to show off though. ;)
      « Last Edit: Nov 29, 2009 09:29:00 am by CRK, Reason: Posted on my phone earlier, wanted to bulk it up a bit. »
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Have we progressed under Rafa Benitez giving the money he has spent ?
      Reply #22: Nov 29, 2009 10:36:41 am
      Excellent post.

      All of those points make sense yet everyone who slags Rafa seems to disregard this actual evidence, rather than mostly formed opinions.

      We can now, realistically, beat anyone whilst back in the day it was a park the bus and hope job. And the fact that the other teams seem to talk about us so much shows how we're in the back of their minds leading up to big games.

      So yes, I do think we have progressed while Rafa has been in charge. This year is simply a slip up, due to injuries and a lack of strenghtening in the squad.

      Also, you mention Guus Hiddink as a man who can manage an average team. I think Benitez might even stump him on that, with what he did in 2004/2005, with a team he mostly didn't rate. (Traore, Biscan, Smicer, all these players got Champions League medals.) Hiddink's had much longer to show off though. ;)


      Agree with the vast majority of that, I've been "Lucky" enough to support Liverpool from the 80's even at 5 year old I can even remember King Kenny becoming Player Manager and taking over the reigns from Bob Paisley. So I've supported us through the good Paisley/Dlaglish and also through the bad I.E Souness.

      In my honest opinion going back to your post about Roy Evans team, I truly honestly believe we were much the same as we are now 1 or 2 good signings away from winning the league, Even if we had got one more Season from Stan Collymore I think we may have lifted it under Evans, as Collymore and Fowlers goal scoring feats were exemplery, Collymore getting 28 and Fowler getting 67 in all competitions over the two seasons. The strike partnership was formidable and had defenders the length and breadth of the country shitting their pants at the prospect of facing them, Our midfield was as good as any ones it was only the defense and keeper that let us down, so much as we were then we are now one or two real quality players to make the difference and the step up from also rans.


      My own opinion and not related to the quote.

      People will always revert to Rafa's spending over his tenure, but they do not take into consideration when taking over the reigns from Houllier, Rafa came with his own plans and wanted to give the team his own identity, which unfortunately for some meant a wholesale clear out. I'm sure Rafa would have liked to have done this in one sweep had he had the money to do so and what a lot of people do not realise is, the last of Houlliers signings did not leave up until the beginning of the 2008/2009 season.

      Rafa from the day he has took over has had his hand forced in selling to buy for the majority of his tenure, yes he's been given money to spend no one doubts that, but In my honest opinion If Rafa had not wheeled and dealed, bargained and traded players to put his own stamp on the team we would not be where we are now.

      Yes some of Rafa's signings have been poor, then again some have been really good, I think it depends where your forced into shopping plays a big part on your success in the transfer market. If your forced to shop at Aldi them 9p tin of beans is not going to taste as nice as them 32p  ones you got from Sainsbury's is it ?, Yes Rafa has made a couple of high profile errors Babel & Dossena, well not exactly high profile but you get the jist, Can Rafa be held solely responsible for their failings ?, I don't believe he can , both players came with good European pedigree's Dossena being an Italian international who may I add looks a completely different player in the Italian League and Babel who came from the Ajax academy hailed as the new Thierry Henry, so for me where does the blame lie ?

      Well Rafa has to take his proportion of the blame so we'll start with Rafa who give the all clear to sign them, then the scouts have to take their proportion of the blame too as they advise Rafa, then theirs the players who have to take their share of the blame too , whether it be their inability to adapt to the English game , their attitude what ever they have to shoulder some responsibility. What I'm getting at here any signing is a risk and even the greatest managers make mistakes in the market as any transfer carries an element of risk as their is factors as to whether that signing is a success or failure which are totally out of the managers hands.

      The press are now conveniently picking up Zonal marking as the area where we have been found out and the cause of all our failings and are using this in their media witch hunt of Rafa to try and oust him from his position. Yet the media are not giving a fair based anology of the situation and presenting the facts accordingly relating to our inability to field  a settled back 4 all season long due to injuries surely that plays some part in it and the constant reshuffling and sending out makeshift defenses with new signings Sotis, Johnson and you could even say Degen needing time to understand and integrate into the system we employ.

      Selections/Substitutions well we all know Rafa's selections and substitutions can leave us puzzled at the best of times and leaves us scratching our heads thinking the what **** ?, the media use this as an attack of Rafa, they question his selections and substitutions and lay the blame on Rafa for this costing us points when we lose games, how ever when Rafa makes similarly baffling selections/substitutions and we win the game in question, this very same media hail him a tactical genius, so its a little contradictory on their parts in my humble opinion as some times selections/substitutions have the desired effect sometimes they don't simple.

      Do I believe everything I read in the media ? No I don't, I believe my gut instinct and what I have seen with my own eyes and what I have seen with my own eyes is Rafa is a very good manager, he gets it right more often than not and he has not become a bad manager and the squad have not become poor over night.

      Injuries have played a massive part in the disruption of our season this year and had Hicks and Gillet invested accordingly into this club over the last two transfer windows we may have had the quality in depth to get through this a hell of a lot better than we have.

      So yes I think we have progressed under Rafa for one reason and one reason only barring our injury ravaged start to the season Rafa has instilled in me the belief that we can go into every game and fear no one and thats the greatest sign of progression I can see with my own eyes.

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