Getting Back to Basics?

[ayrton77]

Our last seven league matches, we've scored 17 out of a possible 21 points. 5 wins, 2 draws, no losses.

Only one goal conceded.

With no more than two goals in any one match, we haven't been scoring prolifically, but with the number of injuries running through the squad, particularly Torres, I think the key factor to our good form and our gradual climb back into the top four has been the defence.

Prior to that, despite factors like luck and injuries, we were shipping soft goals regularly, and I think this had a detrimental effect on the team's morale. We were looking like a team who, even when they went a goal ahead, knew there was a big chance we'd let one in at the back. We had low confidence, it could be seen on the player's faces and in their body language.

The team was unrecognisable to the one we know and love, that even when we're playing poorly, normally you know we'll make up for that with grit and determination.

We've been lucky enough to have more or less a settled defence for a good few weeks now, and despite the handicap of Glen Johnson and Fabio Aurelio being out, Carra has been relatively efficient, Kyrgiakos has been a rock, Agger and Skrtel have been solid, and Insua particularly has turned around a poor start to the season with some of his best form both at the back and coming forward.

Credit to the manager and team where it's due. A tough and disappointing season on the back of 2008-09's heroic "almost" promise, they've shown the spirit and courage to build from the back and grind out essential results. There's still a long haul and hard games ahead, but players and fans alike are probably looking at those games as ones we can win, rather than ones we might lose.

The belief is back.

[clint_call01]

I agree with every word. There is any more to added.

It is a fact, that success begin from the goalie & the back four.
Our goalie is our player of the season & the best keeper in the league.
In the last seven games our defence improved a lot with Soto. as the the rock and the others combining with him.
Our midfield is improving and with Maxi & Albert giving us a very good width attacking. Gerrard is improving with every game after his come-back from injure.
Kuyt is working hard around the goal to fill el Nino space with the help of our midfield.

Benitez now has more confidence (like all the team) in his squad.

[HampshireRed]

Soto is turning into a legend. In the mould of Gary Mac he might have had most of his best years behind him but by god is putting in a shift and a half. Basic no nonsense defending.
Lucas as well is starting to show consistency and he is one of our players of the season IMO. I realise some people will always be on his back but they can have their opinion and their moment in the sun.
N'Gog I must admit had serious doubts after a bad preseason but he again is going back to basics. Hold the ball and bring others into play. He is obviously learing from Nando.
Just a well done to all on keeping it simple.

[Cally]

On the other hand, some of the performances during this run have been the worst in living memory, most notably Wolves, where there was a distinct lack of basic skill. We're grinding results out now, which in the race for the CL is all important. Personally I'd give Rafa another season regardless of where we finish to put things right, but there really needs to be an asessment as to which direction we're going as there's still too many sub standard players and huge doubts over his approach to games, which in 6 seasons have seen us constantly playing catch up throughout the season.

[TKIING]

I personally think its really important to play reira as much as possible down the left as he creates a lot of width, occasionally cutting inside.

[tezmac]

Yes a great run of results confidance coming back now if we could score just a few more goals...

[philH]

Good post Ayrton 77. The determination and grit that was lacking against Portsmouth and 2nd half of Arsenal for example has returned, and now that we are not conceding this has had the desired effect of inspiring Kuyt and Gerrard and to a lesser extent Aquilani. A month ago I would of feared a hiding at the Emirates and Eastlands, but now I am cautiously optimistic. We still have a long way to go and lot of hard games ahead, but with Torres Johnson  and Benayoun still to return there may be something positive to be gained from the season after all.

[LFC-Red]

Good thread, Ayrton your pretty much spot on with the 'going back to basics' theory. Thats what we've done and thats what any team in a rut like we were needs to do in order to find form again. Soto, has brought back some much needed aerial ability and has been in great form himself, the steel has returned back to the defence and we're looking good.

The people who have excused our poor season because of injuries and financial constraints, must be over the moon and the side must be exceeding their own expectations. Because we've been 'unlucky with injuries' and that was a big issue with some as to why our form a month or so back was so bad. Yet, we've still got injury problems, Agger has just returned, Aurelio made a sub appearance against Everton, Yossi, Torres, Johnson are all still out and we've gone on a run. I sit here with a wry smile on my face knowing full well that those who were adament about injuries being soo detrimental to our form and our lack of funds being the reason we were sitting in seventh place were wide of the mark and simply making desperate excuses. Yet I coudn't swallow nor believe some of the excuses on here, that settled and excused our poor form for the most part of the season down to injuries or money. Touch wood, we've turned the corner with injuries, without money and I'm content in our form and, in the knowledge that we were capable of stringing a winning run together while others around here were not.

[redkenny]

No doubt about it for me the steady addition of Kyrgiakos to the heart of the defence, has put some balls back into our defending. He will not shy away from putting his body where it hurts, he has been determined to win and he has led by example. Core elements of what was needed to get us back, I feel. Just regrettable that he's out for a few games now. But hopefully now we have indeed turned that corner and will be able to carry on with the back to basics attitude.

It's important now that the team, regardless of who is out injured, keep the strong determination and belief for the rest of the season. It's well within them. We've just got to keep things simple and do not let any complacency creep in. Starting with Arsenal this Wednesday.

[robbyr]

Our goaly is the best in the world now, no doubt, probably worth 25-30 million
Kyrgiakos has shown to be a shrewd buy, we need more of these rafa
time for our other defenders to follow his example now
but the post is correct, we have shut up shop, about time too
any more clean sheets and we will be back up to third, with still a chance of the league title.

[racerx34]

Loving the huddle at the start of the matches now. Everyone is willing to fight for each other which was evident at the weekend. Didnt think Id be saying this at the start of the season but Kyrgiakos is a big loss for three games as he has been a real leader at the back and dominates the air.
The spirit is definitely back in the team even Babel has some fight about him now and the togetherness will get us throught the rough patch. Cant wait til Torres, Johnson, Aurelio and Aquilani are fully fit

[brezipool]

Lucas is not giving away as many daft free kicks as well. His tackling is much better.

Just having defenders fit is making the difference.

I worry about Johnson coming back though. He is great going forward, but not so great at defending, it could upset the balance again.

could we see Rafa going to 3-5-2 ? When all fit and depending the opposition.

------------------------ Riena --------------------------
--------- Carra - Skirtel or Soto - Agger -------
- Johnson or kuyt ------------------------ Aurellio or Riera -
------------- yossi\Aquilani\maxi - Lucas - Masch ----------
---------- Gerarrd \aquamn-----------------------
---------------------- Torres\ngog\babel -------------------------

[racerx34]

Lucas is not giving away as many daft free kicks as well. His tackling is much better.

Just having defenders fit is making the difference.

I worry about Johnson coming back though. He is great going forward, but not so great at defending, it could upset the balance again.

could we see Rafa going to 3-5-2 ? When all fit and depending the opposition.

------------------------ Riena --------------------------
--------- Carra - Skirtel or Soto - Agger -------
- Johnson or kuyt ------------------------ Aurellio or Riera -
------------- yossi\Aquilani\maxi - Lucas - Masch ----------
---------- Gerarrd \aquamn-----------------------
---------------------- Torres\ngog\babel -------------------------

Think Rafa has tried that formation before. Might work with Johnson and Insua but I dont think it utilises our best players properly like a 4-1-4-1 or 4-2-3-1

[red79]

Our last seven league matches, we've scored 17 out of a possible 21 points. 5 wins, 2 draws, no losses.

Only two goals conceded.

I'm pretty sure it is only one in that run of 7, against Stoke, but good post, we are starting to look very solid at the back, I know there is still a lot of hard work left but if we can keep this up, then I see no reason why we couldn't finish in the top four and go on a good run in the Europa League, and hopefully win it

[ayrton77]

I'm pretty sure it is only one in that run of 7, against Stoke

Looking back I think you're right, I mistakenly counted one we conceded in the 2-1 win over Wigan, prior to the Portsmouth debacle.

1 conceded in our last 7 league games then, sounds even better!

[brezipool]

Makes a hell of a difference!

Let's hope we keep a clean sheet wednesday!

[fazza21]

good post mate

Don't want to get too carried away though, we have a tough month ahead and although im confident in liverpool, it is possible we could lose the next 2 or 3 games and quickly slide down the table again.

We've gone on a good run but the football we've played hasn't been the prettiest or the best. Maybe thats a good thing? Because at this point in the season, its only results that matter and if were getting them without being at our best, well thats good to see.

My point being though, were not on top form despite this run were on at the moment so I think teams will still fancy their chances against us.

We have looked more solid with the big greek at the back, I agree with that. However, to state he is on his way to becoming a legend or to state he has been our best defender this so far this season is going way over-board. The handfull of games he played at the start of the season he looked clumsy, dodgy, slow and quite honestly aload of sh*te. Hes had 4 or 5 really good games recently and has impressed everyone but that doesn't mean now that hes a 'legend'. I'll remind you all of his stupid tackle only 2 days ago, something that could have easily cost us the game, going down 10men to an everton team currently on form. If it had resulted in us losing that game, I'm sure many of you would be on here now fuming and flooding his player thread with criticism.

If we beat Arsenal on wednesday then I think 4th place is in our own hands and it would be ours to lose. If we beat arsenal then we should also be looking at catching them, the gap would only be a few points.

[albertared]

I am cautiously optimistic but definitely would say "Let's not get carried away with ourselves just yet!"

Let's be realistic, it is only 2 weeks ago we looked like a steaming pile of doggy doo with a team that looked like it didn't give a rat's ****.

OK, so credit to all concerned that they now look up for it but I still think the recovery is fragile. Let's just take one game at a time, enjoy the good ones but not ASSUME we can go 15 games unbeaten. On the other hand, let us not go back to doom and gloom at every little setback either, right?

What am I saying? HA! This is LFC. Of course we are going to leap to extreme views after each game. All part of the magic! LOL

[ayrton77]

I am cautiously optimistic but definitely would say "Let's not get carried away with ourselves just yet!"

Let's be realistic, it is only 2 weeks ago we looked like a steaming pile of doggy doo with a team that looked like it didn't give a rat's ****.

OK, so credit to all concerned that they now look up for it but I still think the recovery is fragile. Let's just take one game at a time, enjoy the good ones but not ASSUME we can go 15 games unbeaten. On the other hand, let us not go back to doom and gloom at every little setback either, right?

What am I saying? HA! This is LFC. Of course we are going to leap to extreme views after each game. All part of the magic! LOL

If that's a response to my first post, I can only ASSUME you didn't read it correctly.

I don't remember saying we were going to win all our remaining games, nor did I suggest we had turned our season on it's head and were now playing outstanding football.

What I did say was that because of our injury problems and terrible form, we've built from the back, relying on a settled and dependable defensive block.

I also said the run in would be very hard, but based on these results we've fought so hard for, players and fans alike will probably be looking at those matches with an optimism we didn't have just a few weeks ago.

Not knee-jerk, not leaping to conclusions, nor do I feel it to be an extreme viewpoint. Just a supporter taking pride in the spirit the team have shown in recent times.

[bigvYNWA]

Good thread, Ayrton your pretty much spot on with the 'going back to basics' theory. Thats what we've done and thats what any team in a rut like we were needs to do in order to find form again. Soto, has brought back some much needed aerial ability and has been in great form himself, the steel has returned back to the defence and we're looking good.

The people who have excused our poor season because of injuries and financial constraints, must be over the moon and the side must be exceeding their own expectations. Because we've been 'unlucky with injuries' and that was a big issue with some as to why our form a month or so back was so bad. Yet, we've still got injury problems, Agger has just returned, Aurelio made a sub appearance against Everton, Yossi, Torres, Johnson are all still out and we've gone on a run. I sit here with a wry smile on my face knowing full well that those who were adament about injuries being soo detrimental to our form and our lack of funds being the reason we were sitting in seventh place were wide of the mark and simply making desperate excuses. Yet I coudn't swallow nor believe some of the excuses on here, that settled and excused our poor form for the most part of the season down to injuries or money. Touch wood, we've turned the corner with injuries, without money and I'm content in our form and, in the knowledge that we were capable of stringing a winning run together while others around here were not.

You 'sit there with a wry smile'. C'mon. The injuries and lack of funds were a reason, part of the reason behind our poor form. Now ill agree in part and say some laid too much blame on that, but you can't deny that injuries shake up a team and often can cause disruption, and well, the lack of funds speak for itself. The reason we are finally getting some good form in is the players who should have been picking up the slack have finally pulled their fingers out, and realize they must shoulder the burden now. Hopefully for good as well! Money and injuries isn't all of it, but you can be damn sure it plays a big part. To say its wide of the mark and how you found it so hard to swallow really says to me how much you think that whatever you say is gospel.

Gonna give Rafa some credit as well for once? Since it was all his fault we were doing so bad after all, he must have done something right... right?

[fazza21]

Good thread, Ayrton your pretty much spot on with the 'going back to basics' theory. Thats what we've done and thats what any team in a rut like we were needs to do in order to find form again. Soto, has brought back some much needed aerial ability and has been in great form himself, the steel has returned back to the defence and we're looking good.

The people who have excused our poor season because of injuries and financial constraints, must be over the moon and the side must be exceeding their own expectations. Because we've been 'unlucky with injuries' and that was a big issue with some as to why our form a month or so back was so bad. Yet, we've still got injury problems, Agger has just returned, Aurelio made a sub appearance against Everton, Yossi, Torres, Johnson are all still out and we've gone on a run. I sit here with a wry smile on my face knowing full well that those who were adament about injuries being soo detrimental to our form and our lack of funds being the reason we were sitting in seventh place were wide of the mark and simply making desperate excuses. Yet I coudn't swallow nor believe some of the excuses on here, that settled and excused our poor form for the most part of the season down to injuries or money. Touch wood, we've turned the corner with injuries, without money and I'm content in our form and, in the knowledge that we were capable of stringing a winning run together while others around here were not.

I love the way you have this 'im always right and everyone else is wrong' type of attitude.

Firstly, agreeing with bigYNWA, injuries have a major impact on a team. If you take the two best players out of any football side it is going to damage you. Not only that, but gerrard and torres play in attack, one position, so it leaves us with very little firepower. What I mean is, its bad enough having just one of them out, but to have them both out seen as they play in similar positions is a bloody nightmare!

This season we've seen how bare and thin our squad is, we've seen how poor it is. We've been hammered with injuries all season and the lads who have come in to take their places haven't been upto scratch, we can see that by looking at the league table and the awful performances we've put in at times. You blame Rafa for this as you've stated all over the forum in the last month or so. However, me, and many others on here, blame the owners for it.

The fact is, we are on a sell-buy policy and have been for 2-3 seasons now. You can't deny that. So baring in mind Rafa has had to move some players on to bring others in, I think hes done pretty well. If Rafa was able to spend an extra 25-30mill a season on top of what he already had, we'd have the best squad in the league. If the likes of Bellamy, Crouch, Garcia, even Sissoko were still here with our current squad, we'd be pretty unstoppable. I no some of them players wanted to move on but I'm just making an example. If those players were still at the club and Rafa was able to build on that instead of shuffling them around to bring the likes of torres in, we would have won the league last season.

I've asked you many times if you believe our first 11 is the strongest in the league, or atleast capable of challenging for the league, and I've never seen a reply from you. Rafa has built that first 11, nobody else. You've also stated that you believe Rafa is a good manager but he just isn't the man for us. Explain? We have a good manager according to you yet you don't want him here?

Anyway, what im saying is, people on here including myself aren't excusing some of the poor performances we've put in this season. But what some of us are making excuses for are the results. With our strongest 11 out on the field, would we have lost/drew the games we have this season? I personally don't think so no. Infact, I no we wouldn't.

[LFC-Red]

You blame Rafa for this as you've stated all over the forum in the last month or so. However, me, and many others on here, blame the owners for it.

I had to stop reading there. You blame the owners for our onfield performances everytime a result doesn't go our way. You blame our owners for us getting knocked out of the FA cup by Reading.

So do you now credit them with our little run? I mean when all is going bad its the owners fault, when all is well and good then what, credit Rafa? see how bias, and transparent your arguments are?

I can't believe I'm discussing this with you (banging my head against a brick wall would give me more logic back)!


BigYNWA, of course I give Rafa credit for the turn around in our recent form. As Ayrton stated it seems as though the side has 'gone back to basics' and Rafa will of had a massive hand in that. Whether he's formed the siege mentality or the players have its done them the world of good and credit allround. Him and the lads deserve it, I hope they get a result now in London tomorrow night.

[fazza21]

HAHA, here we go again. Your my favourite person on this forum because you can't discuss football at all. If somebody disagrees with a point of yours then you shut up shop and the sulking I see from you is absolutely un-real. Im sure your a thirteen year old girl.

Anyway, Do you not read other peoples posts?

Im not excusing some of the poor performances this season, the reading game falls into this category, and we should have done much better and the team that was on the pitch that day was much stronger than the reading side on paper and we should have walked through that game with ease. Have I ever blamed the owners for losing that game? No.

My point throughout the season has only ever been that our squad is too thin. Thats something I don't blame Rafa for because how can you? How can you blame Rafa for that? If people come on here and say YES BUT WE HAD CROUCH, WE HAD BELLAMY, WE HAD GARCIA, MORIENTES, and all this sh*te I've seen before, then I will respond by saying WE WOULDN'T HAVE JOHNSON, WE WOULDN'T HAVE MASCHERANO, WE WOULDN'T HAVE TORRES etc etc

Going off topic slightly here, but Rafa has built a very strong 11 at Liverpool, something you STILL haven't replied either agreeing or disagreeing. Hes slowly getting the side back on form, picking wins up here and there bit by bit and he will eventually shut the likes of you up.

[crouchinho]

(banging my head against a brick wall would give me more logic back)!

No one is stopping you.

[LFC-Red]

No one is stopping you.

I see that you have banned people for "poor" posting  

Sorry, I found that quite ironic.  

Going off topic slightly here, but Rafa has built a very strong 11 at Liverpool, something you STILL haven't replied either agreeing or disagreeing. Hes slowly getting the side back on form, picking wins up here and there bit by bit and he will eventually shut the likes of you up.

I hope he does 'shut the likes of me up' faz.

I don't even know what our best first team eleven is and I'm not sure Rafa doesn't so how you expect me to answer that I do not know.

[ayrton77]

Lucky I started this "Pointless and Aimless Bickering thread", that way everyone is staying well on topic.

[fazza21]

Well whatever you believe our first/strongest 11 is.

Is it not capable of challenging for the league?

I doubt your first 11 will be much different compared to mine or many other reds fans, so if we had that 11 on the pitch week in week out, would we not challenge for the league then no?

[crouchinho]

I see that you have banned people for "poor" posting 

Sorry, I found that quite ironic. 

Called a joke, sir. We all make jokes on this forum. Don't ban anyone for it (unless it's content breaches rules).

[LFC-Red]

Well whatever you believe our first/strongest 11 is.

Is it not capable of challenging for the league?

I doubt your first 11 will be much different compared to mine or many other reds fans, so if we had that 11 on the pitch week in week out, would we not challenge for the league then no?

Look this thread has gone off topic as somebody mentioned. I felt that injuries didn't hamper us to the point of languishing in seventh, being dumped out the FA cup and some really poor form to boot. I pointed this out because posters like your good self carried on and on about any excuse they could grasp at. I just offered my opinion that you were wrong.

Infact I recall not only injuries and money being prime factors towards our poor form, but refereing decisons also became a way of deflecting any critisism towards our manager. Again we had some very poor decisons given against us against Everton, how Pienaer stayed on the pitch for 91mins only God knows. The ref was dreadful and lost control of that game from the very begining. But still, with poor reffing, no money and injuries we still managed to beat Everton with 10 men!

Now all the excuses are there and valid to a point, yet we won. And we've put a run together without playing magnificent football, still we're scrapping games and getting results FINALLY. But we still have injuries, no money and poor refereeing decisions.

What I'm trying to say is, that there were an abundance of posters on here who over used to the point of utter bias to excuse our form and their (your) views were totally polarized and skewed to the point of folly.

[fazza21]

Again, you still haven't answered me. Its because for weeks now you've criticised Rafa so you won't or can't admit that his first 11 is as good as anybodys in the league. However, fair enough Lfc-red, couple of points in that post.

Theres a balance to it though and I think you quickly forget that. Whenever we lose a game or perform badly people want to no why. Sometimes its simply we werent good enough on the day and the other team outplayed us, sometimes its the managers fault, sometimes its certain individuals/players aren't performing, the list is endless.

I personally think that if the owners had reached into their pockets and gave benitez abit more support then we wouldn't be in the mess we currently find ourselves in. That doesn't mean im blaming the owners for some of the performances this season though, I'm just stating that if we had a better bench or a better second string team, we would have coped alot better in certain games and won more games.

I've remained pretty balanced throughout the season though so to suggest I blame the owners for everything on the field simply isn't true mate. I know what you mean though, there have been posts on here which blame the owners etc for everything, but im not one to post them. I am a Rafa fan, I love him to bits, but I will still criticise him when I believe hes made a wrong decision. I bang on about how I cant believe he signed aquilani more or less every day on this forum.

However, I can say the same for you but vice versa. You seem to blame Rafa for pretty much everything and you call for his head pretty much every day too. Is that fair? I dont think so. So its why I respond to some of your comments because theres always two sides to the argument.

But we'll leave it there, it is going off topic. 1-0 tomorrow please reds men. Agger screamer.