Fernandez Suso (Liverpool > AC Milan)

Suso is a decent young player. But he doesn't play with the intensity that Rodgers demands from his team. I don't think he is suited to the PL. He is much more suited to a slower paced league like Seria A. So I don't think there is any point holding on to him and further stifling his career.

Even If he can't play with that intensity, he can still fit into the team. He may not be the best tackler, but he can certainly press and track back (showed it in preseason too). Also, the only players that played with that intensity were Allen, Henderson & Suarez.

It is nonsense to say he is not suited to the PL. Each time he has put the red shirt on, he has been decent. Remember, he has been with us since 16/17 and has acclimatised to the culture and football (Youth, reserve and PL games). He is not someone we bought this summer, he has been nurtured by us over the years in preparation for first team action (which he showed he was capable of in 12/13 season).

I have been watching this kid since he joined us, and he was/is the most talented player in his age group. Infact, I would go as far to say that I don't think there has been anyone better(in footballing ability) for me in the PL for his age group. I still believe he is better than Sterling and Coutinho. He just needed to be given the opportunity, but what more can he do?

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying he is world class or will make a huge difference to our first team, but he definitely deserves just as much of a chance as what Coutinho and Sterling has been given.

Oh. Right. Got you now. I think.

If Brendan rated Suso but couldn't get the best out of him then he deserves criticism however... If he doesn't rate him then he should what: just get rid and offer him to Fulham say?

But how would we ever know, for sure, if Brendan rates a player or not? If he signed him; if he promoted him to the 1st XI; or something else?

Nah... I still reckon that the majority of how an individual performs is down to the skill and ability of that individual. Only in very unique circumstances would I ever blame a manager for the lack of an individual's performance... Similarly tho' - I'm not going to give credit to a manager when an individual performs well. The team, definitely, yes: the individual, no.

Suarez was always going to be great - Suso, maybe not. Brendan can take little credit (or criticism) for either, in my opinion, of course but the fact remains - if you credit him, then you also have to blame him. 

Catch you later buddy. Good luck.

I'm not suggesting it is all down to the manager, but there has to be some reason that Suarez performed better in BR's system than in Kenny's. Likewise, there has to be a reason that Studge never hit the heights he has at LFC while working under AVB, rafa, or Di Matteo. Both players had obvious ability, but for some reason they weren't performing to the best of their ability. That is what a managers job is - to get the best form out of his best players in order to get the best results for the team. Brendan did this wonderfully well last season by getting SAS to play so well together. He set the rest of the team up in such a way that these two would be able to flourish. However, our team selection and tactics were to the detriment of our defenders (because it left them overly exposed).

With regards to Suso, I think he is a wonderfully talented player, but if BR decides he isn't up to scratch then I don't expect him to focus any of his man management skills on improving a player he seemingly doesn't want....

Dead on - Brendan should only be expected to work his magic and be 'judged' on players who are good enough - gotcha. 

Maybe, and I'm just throwing this out there, just maybe Suso isn't as good as some think he is?

I'm not suggesting it is all down to the manager, but there has to be some reason that Suarez performed better in BR's system than in Kenny's. Likewise, there has to be a reason that Studge never hit the heights he has at LFC while working under AVB, rafa, or Di Matteo. Both players had obvious ability, but for some reason they weren't performing to the best of their ability. That is what a managers job is - to get the best form out of his best players in order to get the best results for the team. Brendan did this wonderfully well last season by getting SAS to play so well together. He set the rest of the team up in such a way that these two would be able to flourish. However, our team selection and tactics were to the detriment of our defenders (because it left them overly exposed).

With regards to Suso, I think he is a wonderfully talented player, but if BR decides he isn't up to scratch then I don't expect him to focus any of his man management skills on improving a player he seemingly doesn't want....

Basic management 101 - play the players in their favoured positions. Have you forgotten already Sturridge complaining that he was never given a proper chance in those teams because he wasn't played in his strongest position. He was mediocre at Citeh & Chavski but flourished whilst at Bolton. Why do you think that was? It's not rocket science eh? Same goes for Suarez by giving him the licence to roam and reek havoc. I don't think Suarez could ever flourish properly if he was played in a 'rigid' set-up and it'll be interesting to see how Barca will utilise him.

As for Suso, I don't think that he has been given a proper chance - by Brendan. By the same token it was obvious Brendan didn't rate Hendo when he first came and so going by your theory he wouldn't be here now. Double standards mate and you haven't got or given a valid argument.

@ BBB - I never said anything about being "good enough." If Brendan rates a player and wants him in his team then he should be willing and able to work with that player to help coax the best out of him. If he doesn't want a player then he shouldn't waste his time on them and focus on players who feature in his plans.

@ Scally - So manager's have nothing to do with the form of the players? Just play them in their natural positions and let them do the rest, eh. I guess it was just bad luck for Roy that all of our players played like sh*t when he was manager....

I guess Diego Costa is just sh*t when he pulls on a Spain jersey. It can't have anything to do with the tactics and personnel not suiting his playing style....   

@ BBB - I never said anything about being "good enough." If Brendan rates a player and wants him in his team then he should be willing and able to work with that player to help coax the best out of him. If he doesn't want a player then he shouldn't waste his time on them and focus on players who feature in his plans.

@ Scally - So manager's have nothing to do with the form of the players? Just play them in their natural positions and let them do the rest, eh. I guess it was just bad luck for Roy that all of our players played like sh*t when he was manager....

I guess Diego Costa is just sh*t when he pulls on a Spain jersey. It can't have anything to do with the tactics and personnel not suiting his playing style....   

Been an interesting debate between you and BBB. Sorry to jut in here but there does seem to be a bit of a fly in the ointment where your theory is concerned and that's Henderson. Pretty sure BBB was eluding to him earlier and I was going to post then but thought you'd catch the drift, where does he fit into the equation?

He was deemed not good enough judged on the evidence Brendan was happy enough to package him off to Fulham. He has since gone on to become vice captain yet Brendan gets credit for this, seems awfully strange that one and wondering how you reconcile it?

Now Hendo has certainly surprised many people, me being one of those at the front of that queue, but also Brendan, so what's to say Suso couldn't do the same? Or should Brendan just cherry pick his XI and then worry about the rest only as and when he needs them. Personally feel that Brendan should have plenty of time to coach a squad of 25, after all that is his job and giving credit where it's due should always be tempered with criticism where it's due too.

I'd love to see a lot more of Suso, I've rated him since he started at the Academy ( although I also rated N'Goo), and had pegged him as future star for us.  He seems perfect for Brendan's tactics,  maybe his attitude isn't right in training or something, Brendan knows better than me I guess

Maybe, and I'm just throwing this out there, just maybe Suso isn't as good as some think he is?

Maybe he is, maybe he isn't, who knows unless he's given a proper run. But from what I've seen of him, he really is something special for a kid of his age. I have yet to see a young midfielder over the last 3 years with his passing range, composure, vision and dribbling all in 1!

@ Luke - I take nothing away from Hendo. He has showed great desire to be here and he absolutely works his socks off every day to improve and it has paid dividends. However, it also has to be said that he has performed better in BR's tactical setup than he ever did in Kenny's. You could put that down to him just being a better player now than he was then, but I like to think that Brendan has helped him by giving him a properly defined role within the team and pushing him to be better than he was before.

I am not minimizing the fact that the form of a player  starts with that player. I'm simply stating that i believe the role of a manager has a greater impact on player's performances than what BBB seems to be suggesting. Things like team selection, formation, and tactics can be every bit as important as individual ability and application. If a manager sets a team up primarily to not concede, then you can't necessarily expect the attackers to score boat loads of goals. Our tactics were quite the opposite last season, and they helped produce the most explosive strike partnership the Prem has seen in many years, only at the expense of our defensive fortitude. The two (players ability and managers tactics) obviously go hand in hand, and I'm just as quick to criticize the gaffer for his role in our defensive woes as I am to praise his impact on our improved attacking potency (last year, as we have yet to really get going this term). I do stand by the fact that Suarez, Studge, hendo, and sterling have all performed better for Brendan than they did under previous managers, and I think Brendan deserves some credit for this. However, he also shoulders the blame for his tactics leaving skrtel, Agger, Lovren, and sakho incredibly exposed and vulnerable.

As far as this applies to Suso, I don't expect Brendan to even try to "man manage" the lad and coax the best out of him if he doesn't even really feature in his plans. Unfortunately, we probably won't ever know if Brendan really did/does rate Suso as his days appear to be numbered, so we won't ever be able to deduce whether his man management skills are actually as keen as some (like myself) like to think they are.

@ Luke - I take nothing away from Hendo. He has showed great desire to be here and he absolutely works his socks off every day to improve and it has paid dividends. However, it also has to be said that he has performed better in BR's tactical setup than he ever did in Kenny's. You could put that down to him just being a better player now than he was then, but I like to think that Brendan has helped him by giving him a properly defined role within the team and pushing him to be better than he was before.

I am not minimizing the fact that the form of a player  starts with that player. I'm simply stating that i believe the role of a manager has a greater impact on player's performances than what BBB seems to be suggesting. Things like team selection, formation, and tactics can be every bit as important as individual ability and application. If a manager sets a team up primarily to not concede, then you can't necessarily expect the attackers to score boat loads of goals. Our tactics were quite the opposite last season, and they helped produce the most explosive strike partnership the Prem has seen in many years, only at the expense of our defensive fortitude. The two (players ability and managers tactics) obviously go hand in hand, and I'm just as quick to criticize the gaffer for his role in our defensive woes as I am to praise his impact on our improved attacking potency (last year, as we have yet to really get going this term). I do stand by the fact that Suarez, Studge, hendo, and sterling have all performed better for Brendan than they did under previous managers, and I think Brendan deserves some credit for this. However, he also shoulders the blame for his tactics leaving skrtel, Agger, Lovren, and sakho incredibly exposed and vulnerable.

As far as this applies to Suso, I don't expect Brendan to even try to "man manage" the lad and coax the best out of him if he doesn't even really feature in his plans. Unfortunately, we probably won't ever know if Brendan really did/does rate Suso as his days appear to be numbered, so we won't ever be able to deduce whether his man management skills are actually as keen as some (like myself) like to think they are.

It's clear we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one Harry. I can't give Brendan's tactical masterstrokes the credit for Henderson when many others were shouting out loud that he had plenty of the characteristics required under Kenny's stewardship and despite that Brendan was clearly happy to package him off, that's disingenuous in my opinion.

Suarez, I personally maintained under Kenny that he was an excellent striker and had the skills to go on and be top scorer the following season, I even advised people to back him at generous odds. He narrowly missed out on that but it was clear to me and I'm sure no doubt Kenny/Brendan/countless others too that his talent was already there. Suggesting that Brendan should reap credit for his efforts, again, somehow turning Suarez from misfiring misfit into all conquering world beater just doesn't wash with me, I can see through that smokescreen for the crap it is, I don't buy it for a second. Take a look through his career record and spot the anomaly, it's pretty obvious.

Let's take this further than just Suarez/Hendo/Sterling - why isn't Balotelli functioning, why aren't the tactics bringing the best out of him. Lambert/Borini the same, ah they're just bad players, sorry Harry trying to give the credit for the good players but then deflecting the blame for the bad doesn't wash too well. I also can't agree with your sweeping acceptance of our struggles in defence, suggesting we were completely gungho last season and that being the cause of our defensive issues. A large percentage of our conceded goals were from set-pieces, if Brendan was such a master tactician then that problem would have been solved by now. Instead of coaching a solution he's buying more and more CB's yet the problem persists. As it stands our set-piece defending is still abysmal and Brendan is rightly under the microscope because of that failing.

Never said he was a master tactician. I said, and still claim that he is a good man manager. It's still too early to say whether he will be able to coach balo, Markovic, or Lallana into being the type of attacking threat that Suarez was for us last year. I guess time will tell, but even if he does manager to do this you and BBB can just say the talent was always there and they were always going to flourish regardless of BR

Seems like a footie manager is a pretty useless position if all they do is pick a starting 11 and the rest is on the players....

Maybe he is, maybe he isn't, who knows unless he's given a proper run.

But maybe he isn't getting that proper run because the boss doesn't think he is good enough.

It does seem a strange one, that so many of us don't want him to leave and feel he just needs to be given a chance to prove his value to the squad, yet Brendan appears reluctant to do that.

The comparisons to Hendo do somewhat prove that if players show that they are learning from his training and putting it into practice on the pitch, he can't not play them, unless somebody else is doing even better.  Remember also that Brendan had only been with us a few weeks when he tried to offload him (Hendo) yet he's had over two years of working with/following the progress of Suso, including a full season at Melwood and since coming back from Almeria.

Personally I don't think it's that Brendan doesn't rate him as such but that he realises he needs more playing time than he's able to offer him at this present time.  Unfortunately for Suso that means he either hangs around for another season, barely playing, or he moves on with his career away from Anfield whether on loan or permenantly.

Things like team selection, formation, and tactics can be every bit as important as individual ability and application.

Hi Harry. Similarly to what you're in implying about team selection, formation and tactics and individual ability and application both feed into one another and are very much intertwined.

You could use last seasons achievement in the league to argue both aspects - in that Suarez's individual brilliance was the catalyst that got us into second. Or, you could argue it was Rodgers' team, tactics and formation that ensured we finished above stronger squads like Chelsea. Or, you could go the holistic approach and say it was both of these things which I think would be more accurate as they are intertwined.

On the subject of Suso, the few times I have seen him play show that he is a quite a good technical little player who can at times (like most players) find it hard to impact on a substantial game.

I'm inclined to think along the lines of srslfc, in that he may not be getting a proper run because the boss doesn't think he's good enough. I'm inclined to agree that if a manager isn't taken-in by a player, then he isn't going to heavily invest man-management skills into him to get the best out of him, especially if he's already got an idea that a player won't feature in his plans anyway.

as most , I would like  Suso to stay , but if the manager does not rate as much, its fair for the player to seek new experiences
 that said he will be a free agent in the summer, so if another club wants him I would get something out of it in January and maybe make a 1st buy back option for him
   I think he will be a hit in Italy  as the Italian league is played , (much slower than the PL

 YNWA

Maybe, and I'm just throwing this out there, just maybe Suso isn't as good as some think he is?

or maybe we could have given him some game time and not spent 7 million on Alberto.
Suso has always showed some signs of quality when given time.
Did well against the Mancs and in the cup.

A bit of a reality check needed with the Brendan does not think Suso is not good enough...... Aspas, Alberto and the Hendo situation?

Maybe he is not always right?

A bit of reality needed with the Brendan does not think Suso is not good enough...... Aspas, Alberto and the Hendo situation?

But that's your opinion mate.

For all we know Brendan could rate all of the above players but not Suso for whatever reason.

But that's your opinion mate.

For all we know Brendan could rate all of the above players but not Suso for whatever reason.

So my original post stands that he does not always get it right. Correct me if I'm wrong he did sanction Alberto and Aspas buys he must have rated them? And he originally thought Hendo was not good enough.

Point being all managers can make mistakes in judgement.

So my original post stands that he does not always get it right. Correct me if I'm wrong he did sanction Alberto and Aspas buys he must have rated them? And he originally thought Hendo was not good enough.

Point being all managers can make mistakes in judgement.

I agree.

But what I'm saying is that Suso is likely not getting a chance because at this point in time the manager doesn't think he is good enough.

The future may well prove him to be right or equally he could be proven wrong.

So my original post stands that he does not always get it right. Correct me if I'm wrong he did sanction Alberto and Aspas buys he must have rated them? And he originally thought Hendo was not good enough.

Point being all managers can make mistakes in judgement.

I doubt very much Aspas and Alberto were high on his wish list, if they were on it at all mate,  and to be fair Hendo hadn't yet proved his worth.
Brendan is far from infallible, but I'll trust his judgement, since he sees more than I do.

I doubt very much Aspas and Alberto were high on his wish list, if they were on it at all mate,  and to be fair Hendo hadn't yet proved his worth.
Brendan is far from infallible, but I'll trust his judgement, since he sees more than I do.

So are you suggesting they were thrust upon him?

Brendan is quoted as saying that no players are signed without his final say!