NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

What does everyone make of this kitty that's been reported, 60 million isn't it?
A good amount or does it make you wonder where all the extra money is going?
Like all these sponsorship deals we keep hearing about, CL money, EPL money, tv money, ticket sales...does that all equal a 60 million spare money package or is money getting skimmed off into the owners other ventures?

The truth is, no one knows what our budget is until we actually get done buying. Also, I'm assuming our spending also depends on our ability to comply with FFP? I'm not remotely smart enough to know where we are with regards to compliance so that may or may not affect things?

We also have a stadium improvement project to pay for as well.

The truth is, no one knows what our budget is until we actually get done buying. Also, I'm assuming our spending also depends on our ability to comply with FFP? I'm not remotely smart enough to know where we are with regards to compliance so that may or may not affect things?

We also have a stadium improvement project to pay for as well.

True, I thought the same, we don't really know if they will add more if a good deal comes along.
Suppose there always needs to be a general amount of money. I don't get the FFP thing, all I've seen so far on that is clubs can offset any debt by saying they have certain projects or over exaggerating sponsorship deals, i.e money spent to money coming in to balance the books.
I'd air on the side of caution, look what can happen if you try fiddle the books.
Man City may run into major trouble down the line, I think.

What does everyone make of this kitty that's been reported, 60 million isn't it?
A good amount or does it make you wonder where all the extra money is going?
Like all these sponsorship deals we keep hearing about, CL money, EPL money, tv money, ticket sales...does that all equal a 60 million spare money package or is money getting skimmed off into the owners other ventures?

What is really mysterious is the statement attributed to FSG vis a vis they will not use their own money in funding LFC plc!!
Where is the dividing line in respect of monies the club makes as mentioned above purely as a result of it's status as a viable investment entity?
We've heard all that stuff about being saved from bankruptcy etc etc, and the extraordinary circumstances that placed us in that predicament but ffs if the owners were true to their word and valued the asset that is LFC why don't they conduct their affairs like they believe they are actually dealing with an asset??
Their refusal to 'use their own money' smacks of only one attitude; they must not believe the product is what it says on the box - an asset.
To put it another way, they do not think LFC worthy of investment.

What is really mysterious is the statement attributed to FSG vis a vis they will not use their own money in funding LFC plc!!
Where is the dividing line in respect of monies the club makes as mentioned above purely as a result of it's status as a viable investment entity?
We've heard all that stuff about being saved from bankruptcy etc etc, and the extraordinary circumstances that placed us in that predicament but ffs if the owners were true to their word and valued the asset that is LFC why don't they conduct their affairs like they believe they are actually dealing with an asset??
Their refusal to 'use their own money' smacks of only one attitude; they must not believe the product is what it says on the box - an asset.
To put it another way, they do not think LFC worthy of investment.

I disagree.  They said when they took over that they were looking at a long term plan to regain our status as a top club.  They mucked up originally by thinking they could just spend a load and break back into the top 4, but our players like Downing, Carrol, & Adam failed us and we had to rethink the strategy.  Since then, the recruitment strategy has been very consistent:

- Buy talented young players and build a squad with good chemistry and understanding over time
- Don't pay over the top in transfer fees or wages in order to limit the risk factor associated with player transfers
- Tie the best players and key contributors down to long term contracts (Agger, Skrtel, Gerrard, and Suarez have all been given lucrative long term deals in the last 2 years)

FSG have had a positive impact on almost every tangible aspect of the club.  We are playing better football, we have a better playing staff (on lower wages), we have increased commercial revenues, and they just unveiled the stadium expansion plans.  They also have us on the brink of winning our first league title in over 20 years, and we are guaranteed a spot back in the CL next season which we have not been a part of in 5 long years!!

What is really mysterious is the statement attributed to FSG vis a vis they will not use their own money in funding LFC plc!!
Where is the dividing line in respect of monies the club makes as mentioned above purely as a result of it's status as a viable investment entity?
We've heard all that stuff about being saved from bankruptcy etc etc, and the extraordinary circumstances that placed us in that predicament but ffs if the owners were true to their word and valued the asset that is LFC why don't they conduct their affairs like they believe they are actually dealing with an asset??
Their refusal to 'use their own money' smacks of only one attitude; they must not believe the product is what it says on the box - an asset.
To put it another way, they do not think LFC worthy of investment.

At first you think oh yeah, then it'll be self sustaining. Then you just think WTF?! Really.
So like.. the owner/s aren't prepared to even invest at the right moments when they know the manager is leading the club and their pockets to the right place.

I've never got that one part about their ownership as you pointed out about their own money. It is a weird attitude and statement of intent with regards to running a Football team.

Why did they set it in concrete? Instead of just saying, our plan is to mostly have funds generated by the club directly going back into the club to help it grow, if we need to inject some revenue along the way, we of course will do everything in our power to back the team and fans.

By acting like owners and investing their actual business. I'm not a gazillionaire but isn't that something businesses do, like owners invest at times of success to capitalise on the position they have achieved and not let it wane away.

At first you think oh yeah, then it'll be self sustaining. Then you just think WTF?! Really.
So like.. the owner/s aren't prepared to even invest at the right moments when they know the manager is leading the club and their pockets to the right place.

I've never got that one part about their ownership as you pointed out about their own money. It is a weird attitude and statement of intent with regards to running a Football team.

Why did they set it in concrete? Instead of just saying, our plan is to mostly have funds generated by the club directly going back into the club to help it grow, if we need to inject some revenue along the way, we of course will do everything in our power to back the team and fans.

By acting like owners and investing their actual business. I'm not a gazillionaire but isn't that something businesses do, like owners invest at times of success to capitalise on the position they have achieved and not let it wane away.

Sorry to just pick out the bold part mate, but no, most (if not all) big businesses use someone elses money whenever they can, especially if they are not going to be personally liable if things go tits up.
The bottom line is "always use someone elses money".

I know it's a slow and (for some) frustrating process as they build and grow the business to bring it to where it should have been for over 20 years if we had been on the ball commercially, but it will pay off in the end.

You don't have to apologise mate. Maybe it's slightly confusing to me that I've heard about what? 5 or 6 deals with brands like subway alongside our yearly thing with warrior, all the money that comes from league position tv rights, PL money CL money sponsorship or partner deals with all these random companies, ticket sales kit sales, does that = 60 mil? For the main core thing, which is the team, without the team all the other stuff is just to line the Owners pockets.
Ok wages agent fees new stadium. I thought it was their money for the stadium expansion or some agreement when they took over.
I'm not an accountant, or political.
But the word transparency is a word I understand, we need a break down at some point of all these side deals, what the money was used for, where it went.
Ian Ayre was so busy with a new sponsor  deal in the short winter transfer window, he forgot he was supposed to be buying a player.

They've made a few shocking errors and mistakes since being here.. But I think if you asked anyone on the 10th of October 2010 that in 3 and a half years time we would be sitting clear at the top of the table with 3 games to go, guaranteed Champions League football, a young and improving squad and manager not on ridiculous wages, the club finances becoming more impressive season on season and finally the new redevelopment plans being announced.. They'd have bitten your F***ing hand off.

Not saying they're perfect, but there's few clubs in Europe who wouldn't mind owners like ours at the minute.

This is the moment in the season Bruce Forsyth brings on his glamorous assistant and starts teasing us with potential prizes. With the introduction of even more tv money (thank you BT Sport etc) the figures have become even more astronomical.



To put this into context, the team that finished rock bottom will get more prize money (62 million) than the 61 million received by last seasons champions Manchester United.

The 'big four' can't be happy with that financial distribution can they?  Socialism in action in the world of corporate sport! Whowuddathunkit.

The 'big four' can't be happy with that financial distribution can they?  Socialism in action in the world of corporate sport! Whowuddathunkit.

League wise, that's correct. This is after all a global live entertainment business. The pay off for teams comes by being in the top four, which is the CL money.

there has been some rumour that we will have about 50 mil pounds to buy players.  I am wondering if this is realistic?

say we look at upcoming potential players... they range from like 10-15-20 mil each.  the sturridge, mig, cou hendo falls into this place.  this means if we are able to get them all for say 10 mil, we will only add 5 new players at most to the squad.  I think there is a general consensus that we have more than 5 spots to fix / add depth to

going any lower will really be the untested, pie in the sky risk type of players that hopefully will blossom.  like alberto, aspas, ilori

of course we will prob sell a few players... but if they are starting XI, we will have another spot to fill.

I guess we can always look at loans again... although for some reason, I rather we only play our own players as game experience etc.. is good for development on our own assets

I think the problem is that our (Liverpool FC fans) and their (Liverpool FC Owners) definitions of success may be somewhat different.
FSG come from a background of American sports where there is only one prize and things like the salary cap and draft systems build a certain amount of equality into the system.
So teams in America are judged by their on field performances yes but they are also judged by how succesful a financial model they operate. This means that teams like the Dallas Cowboys can still be one of the most financially succesful teams despite not being succesful on the field for 20+ years.
FSG may well be in a similar mindset to those running the Gooners. That top 4, a decent domestic cup run and regular appearances in the knock out stages of the CL are enough to create a financially succesful team. Whilstever 60k turn up to the Emirates regardless of trophies won they will be proven right. They won't spend that extra 40-50-60 million that might (emphasis on might) put them over the top in terms of trophies because there doesnt appear on the face of it to be enough reward in it purely in financial terms.
Now fans of the team will always want to be winners and see silverware. It might be 20+ years since we won the league but we have won 8 major trophies in that same period. Fans will demand that the money be spent to make sure this year isn't a one off and that we can either a)defend the league and challenge in Europe of b) challenge again for the league and in Europe.
We are about to find out where FSG stand.

I disagree.  They said when they took over that they were looking at a long term plan to regain our status as a top club.  They mucked up originally by thinking they could just spend a load and break back into the top 4, but our players like Downing, Carrol, & Adam failed us and we had to rethink the strategy.

The players you mention and the disastrous consequences involved prompted our owners to introduce their long term plan, which basically entails not spending big money on signings as with the players mentioned .
The owners appointment at that time as 50% management team with KD was Damien Comolli, this fact is conveniently omitted when finance and FSG appear in the same paragraph, as luck would have it his appointment and subsequent dismissal led to stringent financial constriction and the leaving of Mr Dalglish in questionable circumstances. Who did that benefit I wonder?
It was good fortune of incredible proportion that our saviour BR was appointed, yet FSG seem reluctant to revise their extended project to accommodate the aforementioned good fortune.
Irrespective of whose money is used, FSG's, the shareholders or capital acquired in lieu of the club's success, the rewards are there for the taking.

  Since then, the recruitment strategy has been very consistent:

- Buy talented young players and build a squad with good chemistry and understanding over time
- Don't pay over the top in transfer fees or wages in order to limit the risk factor associated with player transfers
- Tie the best players and key contributors down to long term contracts (Agger, Skrtel, Gerrard, and Suarez have all been given lucrative long term deals in the last 2 years)

FSG have had a positive impact on almost every tangible aspect of the club.  We are playing better football, we have a better playing staff (on lower wages), we have increased commercial revenues, and they just unveiled the stadium expansion plans.  They also have us on the brink of winning our first league title in over 20 years, and we are guaranteed a spot back in the CL next season which we have not been a part of in 5 long years!!

We have one of the smallest squads in the Prem, I can't imagine that is any ones intent - in a footballing context at least.
The manager has done an unbelievable job on the budget he is forced to address, the demands of the CL are beyond miracle workers.

I think the problem is that our (Liverpool FC fans) and their (Liverpool FC Owners) definitions of success may be somewhat different.
FSG come from a background of American sports where there is only one prize and things like the salary cap and draft systems build a certain amount of equality into the system.
So teams in America are judged by their on field performances yes but they are also judged by how succesful a financial model they operate. This means that teams like the Dallas Cowboys can still be one of the most financially succesful teams despite not being succesful on the field for 20+ years.
FSG may well be in a similar mindset to those running the Gooners. That top 4, a decent domestic cup run and regular appearances in the knock out stages of the CL are enough to create a financially succesful team. Whilstever 60k turn up to the Emirates regardless of trophies won they will be proven right. They won't spend that extra 40-50-60 million that might (emphasis on might) put them over the top in terms of trophies because there doesnt appear on the face of it to be enough reward in it purely in financial terms.
Now fans of the team will always want to be winners and see silverware. It might be 20+ years since we won the league but we have won 8 major trophies in that same period. Fans will demand that the money be spent to make sure this year isn't a one off and that we can either a)defend the league and challenge in Europe of b) challenge again for the league and in Europe.
We are about to find out where FSG stand.

I think parts of your analysis are correct and other are wrong.

You have to be in the CL in order to compete for a trophy.
You have to be in that top tier in order to win the league.

The intention will be to be close in the mix, and in the position to win it all.

They will never spend money the likes of ManCity but then again what did all of Man City's money do for them this year?

You look at the baseball team...for the most part (except a few hiccup years) they are in the mix to win it all each year for the past 12 years; they have won it all 3 times or an average of once every 4 years.

1970's thru the 1980's Liverpool were winning the league every other year as an average, in the past 20 years the Man's were winning it damn near every year.

I don't know the way money has flowed into the leagues the leagues the past decade if we will ever see dominance like LFC of the 70/80's or United of the 90's/00's ever again....too much parity has been created by the amount of money being tossed out.

All that being said if FSG is around for say 16 years and we won the league twice and Europe twice along with some domestic cups and were relevant year in and year out I doubt many would be up in arms over the results.

I think the problem is that our (Liverpool FC fans) and their (Liverpool FC Owners) definitions of success may be somewhat different.

This is the conflict. Fans want the owners to spend (or bankroll the club) to bring in trophies, while owners want their clubs to be financially sustainable. There are not many Chelsea and Man City owners out there. We may not be spending much on transfers but at least we are headed for financial stability. This is important for the club as a going concern and fans often neglect this aspect.

It might irritate some of us but being in the top four every year is sustainable even without winning anything. I've always said Arsene Wenger keeps his job because he makes top four every year. Fans may be upset, but that's sustainability and the owners need nothing more than that.

Which is why as much as I like, I never expect huge transfer budgets every season. When the owners consistently bankroll the club, we are dead. Think J&H.

Think they have got a little lucky if you ask me, even Rodgers has suggested the 'Project' is a year ahead, don't think any one has envisaged how quick a turn around it has been.


Don't get me wrong, there's nothing more I'd love to see than John Henry in a Liverpool Shirt with a f**k off fat Cigar in his mouth celebrating a title win after the Newcastle match.

They have been "lucky" in that they have experienced good fortune - which I'm sure they're grateful for.

But their plan, and this success WAS planned, has gone even better than anticipated. The top three managers this season have been Brendan, Martinez and Pulis. You will remember that the first two were in the running to be our manager. it would be interesting to speculate where Everton would be right now if they had Suarez, for example.

One way or another they planned their way to success - just as they did with the Red Sox, just as they did when they were making their fortunes. And they did it against a backdrop of people telling them they had no clue what they were doing as they "didn't understand football".

Pretty impressive no matter which way you cut it.

I hope JW and Werner wake up this morning and realise just how much Brendan has done with this current sqaud and see the opportunity to fully back him and take us on next season.

We were running on empty the last few games at times and I just hope they see an opportunity rather than think that Brendan has done so well with what he has that it can be this way next season as well.

The time has come to back your first, only and best choice for the manager's job of Liverpool Football Club.

Over to you FSG.

Time to invest fuckle brothers

I actually yelled at FSG when Moses and Lucas missed those sitters at the end to put it away.....it's because of them that we didn't have better options for scoring a winner at the end. No one to bring on to make a difference. Just ridiculous.

We have 14 first team players we need at least 6 more to challenge again next season.My concern with FSG is that if Real come up with £80mil plus for Luis they will take it rather than investing more into the club.
Brendan doing so well this season may have actually damaged his case for more investment from FSG.
Luis was clearly drained last night and its not right that players have to perform like robots for 38 games everyone needs a break at sometime to keep them fresh.
If we don't win the league I will go back to the last two transfer windows and ask FSG why didn't you spend money when it was needed.

We have 14 first team players we need at least 6 more to challenge again next season.My concern with FSG is that if Real come up with £80mil plus for Luis they will take it rather than investing more into the club.
Brendan doing so well this season may have actually damaged his case for more investment from FSG.
Luis was clearly drained last night and its not right that players have to perform like robots for 38 games everyone needs a break at sometime to keep them fresh.
If we don't win the league I will go back to the last two transfer windows and ask FSG why didn't you spend money when it was needed.

You can shout at the top of your voice and no one at FSG will hear you. They are in it for the money - simples. Mark my words, they will sell Suarez if the offer of £80+ came in for him.

Quite simply they don't care. They have an idiot Ayre at the negotiations table. It's not a surprise we didn't sign any one. I am sure had we signed Yuv... (the russian lad) and Salah perhaps the results may have been different but who knows.

Also, you mention 6 players needed. At what price range. £10/15/20 million? £10 million means £60 million fro 6 players.. What kind of players are we going to get for £10-12?

We had the best chance (unexpectedly) for a PL title and we have blown it.

Right FSG, it's your move now.

Brendan's done his best, now it's up to you lot to do your best.

So citeh are looking at getting a punishment of their squad reduced to 21 for the CL and we need to spend a small fortune just to have a squad as big as their reduced squad?

That's quite literally about the size of it.