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      NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

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      bad boy bubby
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #15088: Oct 17, 2014 01:35:02 pm
      No - but that's the playing side that has failed on the pitch to win more.
      Indeed Billy - that's exactly the question I asked. Football... nothing more, nothing less.

      They've allowed Rodgers to spend (and Kenny beforehand) whatever we've made.
      Yes; under strict guidelines and restrictions on how much is paid both in fees and wages. Is that restricting us from progressing further and faster... on the pitch?

      They have indeed "done alright" off the pitch. Whilst I appreciate that: I'm not sure the Red [football fan] in me cares as much about that as what's happening on the pitch. Still... I get your drift.  8)
      FL Red
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #15089: Oct 17, 2014 01:44:35 pm
      Genuine question: what other measures, do you reckon, we should and could use FL?

      Remembering, of course, that the Glazers have the scum sitting pretty as the wealthiest club in Britain and (thanks to their commitment to FFP) more able to sign top players than any other team.


      I don't know if I'd call it sitting pretty....
      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2787944/manchester-united-s-350m-debt-trouble-uefa-step-ffp-fight.html

      Not only the fact that they've saddled the club with debt, but they also may run afoul of FFP as well.

      As for measuring the success of an ownership group I think you have to look at continued years of challenging for top honors, books in order, reputationally sound, commercially strong. Supporters don't need to like the ownership, but I think there needs to be a level of trust that they aren't trying to fleece the club in any way (see H&G and also see Donald Sterling, former owner of the LA Clippers NBA franchise). While some believe that these Americans aren't much different than the old Americans, I geniuinely believe based on their ownership of the Red Sox that they want the club to have the right kind of success. Gun to my head, I think they desire success more for their egos than for their wallets, but that's just my personal take. And in my mind, I'd rather have an owner that wants to succeed for his own glory than for his bottom line.

      Ideally, the best owner would want to succeed because he has an emotional attachment to the club and the supporters and wants the glory for THEM. I don't know if those sorts exist though?

      Measures of success for supporters of course may be (ARE) much different and certainly starts with the end product on the field to include trophies and titles.
      reddebs
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #15090: Oct 17, 2014 01:47:44 pm
      Unfortunately for us fans I think their main priority when they first arrived was to get the business side of things running properly, by increasing income and reducing outgoings.  Whether we like it or not, we were in a mess both on and off the pitch and that was never going to be resolved quickly.

      I know 4 years appears a long time but even with unlimited funds to buy any player they wanted it took City 3 seasons to win their first trophy, the first in over 30 years I might add and they weren't in a financial crisis when those owners arrived.

      We are on the right track, as others have pointed out, there has been progress in many areas but of course we're only interested in what we win so no, one trophy isn't enough.
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #15091: Oct 17, 2014 02:20:54 pm
      As for measuring the success of an ownership group I think you have to look at continued years of challenging for top honors, books in order, reputationally sound, commercially strong.
      No problem FL.

      Off the field FSG have us with our books in order, are of sound repute and [although not as big as the scum] are commercially strong. They are then, without doubt, an off-field success. Can they transfer that acumen to on-field success? Or will they have to re-think their football 'policies' to do that... in your opinion?

      The thing is - if the current 'plan' is based on a long term 'strategy', it could be some while before we achieve [on field] success - and we run the risk of letting run, for too long, before it's corrected, should the 'strategy' not be 'right'... if you get my drift.

      FL Red
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #15092: Oct 17, 2014 02:30:37 pm
      No problem FL.

      Off the field FSG have us with our books in order, are of sound repute and [although not as big as the scum] are commercially strong. They are then, without doubt, an off-field success. Can they transfer that acumen to on-field success? Or will they have to re-think their football 'policies' to do that... in your opinion?

      The thing is - if the current 'plan' is based on a long term 'strategy', it could be some while before we achieve [on field] success - and we run the risk of letting run, for too long, before it's corrected, should the 'strategy' not be 'right'... if you get my drift.



      I think with the way they are doing things it may very well be some time (1-5 years?) before we see sustained, year in year out trophies and/or titles on a regular basis. They obviously aren't going to spend like the Scum or Chelski so I do think we are going to have to be patient (hard to do for an LFC supporter right?) to see if this works.

      I think it's a sound strategy and one that can pay off if you buy right, and you have the right manager.

      I think we have the right manager, but are we buying right? Time will tell unfortunately and that's the risk you run when you aren't spending the majority of your money on "established" players. I like our summer buys, but the argument could be made that aside from Lallana and maybe Lovren...the others could all need a season or so to determine just how good they are going to be.

      Is it the correct strategy to use? Not sure personally. Human nature is that we want things right away and don't have the patience to wait. Truth is, there probably aren't too many examples of throwing tons of money at a problem being a good long term strategy (at least in sports).

      Not sure if I've added any value or if I've just talked around and circles and said nothing ;D

      Good discussion to have though.
      dunlop liddell shankly
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #15093: Oct 17, 2014 02:44:19 pm
      Yes; under strict guidelines and restrictions on how much is paid both in fees and wages. Is that restricting us from progressing further and faster... on the pitch?

      Not in my opinion.

      I think they're right to be strict on fees and wages. Too often we've been stung by paying high prices on sh*t players and tying them down to long term deals on high wages.

      They have indeed "done alright" off the pitch. Whilst I appreciate that: I'm not sure the Red [football fan] in me cares as much about that as what's happening on the pitch. Still... I get your drift.  8)

      You and me too mate but I don't hold the owners responsible for what happens on the pitch the same way I don't hold the players responsible for what happens off it. So as owners, they've done alright.

      bad boy bubby
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #15094: Oct 17, 2014 02:53:28 pm
      I think with the way they are doing things it may very well be some time (1-5 years?) before we see sustained, year in year out trophies and/or titles on a regular basis. They obviously aren't going to spend like the Scum or Chelski so I do think we are going to have to be patient (hard to do for an LFC supporter right?) to see if this works.

      A few things FL -

      * "some time (1-5 years?)" - bringing their tenure, possibly, to nine years, without success and a long time to go just "to see if it works".

      * "patient (hard to do for an LFC supporter right?)" - hmm... not that hard mate; it's what we do best. We are a captive and loyal audience with no other option: it's not like we can sack anyone after a few months, or a season, should we feel they've fu**ed up.


      Human nature is that we want things right away and don't have the patience to wait.
      Indeed but can asking questions, after four years, really be described as wanting "things right away"?

      Not sure if I've added any value or if I've just talked around and circles and said nothing
      Ha ha... it's all about open, argument free discussion and 'food for thought' FL - I think we have succeed there but if we haven't - we might in another five years.  ;D
      FL Red
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #15095: Oct 17, 2014 07:16:49 pm
      A few things FL -

      * "some time (1-5 years?)" - bringing their tenure, possibly, to nine years, without success and a long time to go just "to see if it works".

      Yes, I agree; however, if I were to provide an argument in their defense (not necessarily the position I want to get cornered into) I would say that the "shambles" we were in when they took over was always going to take some time to sort out (1-3 years?). Maybe that's not a valid assessment. I also wonder if we had merely achieved 4th this past season instead of coming close for the title, would people be more willing to wait another couple of years for ultimate success?  Which leads to....

      Quote
      * "patient (hard to do for an LFC supporter right?)" - hmm... not that hard mate; it's what we do best. We are a captive and loyal audience with no other option: it's not like we can sack anyone after a few months, or a season, should we feel they've fu**ed up.

      We are a captive audience but a restless one (and rightfullly so) and while as Clint Eastwood once said in Unforgiven..."deserve's got nothing to do with it" it would seem that we've been patient long enough and we should expect to seem some real momentum. Many would argue we're in the  middle of that, many would argue we are still waiting.

      Quote
      Indeed but can asking questions, after four years, really be described as wanting "things right away"?
      Ha ha... it's all about open, argument free discussion and 'food for thought' FL - I think we have succeed there but if we haven't - we might in another five years.  ;D

      Not necessarily described as wanting things right away no, but to me, to win the title last year would have been a massive achievement and would almost have felt like a magic act. I predicted before the season a third place finish...they finished second and should have finished first so to me it was a success in the sense that we over achieved with respect to my personal evaluation and while everything below first place is still not first place, it filled me with some sense of accomplishment and I truly believed that we would push on this season and have bigger success, either in the league or in CL (or both).

      This start to the season certainly is a downer off of last year's finish, but I wonder how much injuries and just a general league and world cup  hangover has taken effect? Hasn't seem to affect Chelsea but it's still early and there's a lot of twists and turns yet I believe.

      bad boy bubby
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #15096: Oct 19, 2014 09:57:43 am
      ... it filled me with some sense of accomplishment and I truly believed that we would push on this season and have bigger success, either in the league or in CL (or both).

      This start to the season certainly is a downer off of last year's finish, but I wonder how much injuries and just a general league and world cup  hangover has taken effect?

      You were right to have a sense of accomplishment FL - it was a fine achievement by Brendan and the lads. We deserved it and it shouldn't have been treated like some fluke but it has been, in my opinion.

      My alarm bells started ringing, before we signed or sold anyone, when I read that "we are a year ahead of ourselves" and that "we need to consolidate". That, to me, indicated that an awful lot of people thought what we'd achieved was a fluke and rather than 'pushing on', we were going to take a step back, re-evaluate and make the type of signings we could [should?] have made a season earlier.

      To be honest I haven't looked at this season's 'start' at all, when making my observations, FL. I have mentioned my (personal) concerns before - certainly prior to the start to this season: even last. As you know I've been a bit suspect of our transfer 'policy' ['cheap, young with potential'] for a long time. I just can't see it working, in any sustainable fashion. And certainly not when you want to 'improve' on a team which finished very worthy runners-up.

      Unlike other seasons, we were in a position where we could build from a position of strength; we weren't playing catch-up - we had caught up.

      The sale of Suarez meant we actually had the chance to "Spend like City & Chelsea" [by that I assume people mean buy top quality players btw] or, if you prefer; we had the means to sign "First team Improvers".

      Above all else - we should have used that money to bring in quality to fill the void left by Luis - a big ask for one player but maybe not two. Did we even try; did anyone, honestly, believe that the answer to that conundrum lay with Rickie & Mario?

      Instead we used the money to 'build a squad'; for what - to push on and win the League? The additional six Champions League games maybe? Nah... we built and filled the squad with cheap and young, with potential in the hope we could "consolidate" [and keep consolidating] so that, when the time comes to sell, we will have made a tidy profit.

      Then, the theory being [at least, the theory that a lot of people have bought into], if that all works out... maybe, just maybe, we can use that money to sign quality players to er... replace the quality players we have already sold. You know - just like Arsenal and Dortmund?   :-\

      Theory is one thing; reality another.

      The theory is [just like Arsenal & Dortmund] - a good coach can work wonders with young players and deliver titles. It's a nice notion and it appeals to the romantic in us all... after all with "limited funds", the under-dogs are knocking it to the 'big boys'; aren't they? but...

      The reality is - the 'big boys', those who buy quality players [from Arsenal & Dortmund or elsewhere], will continually win titles and trophies. To them the odd 'blip' is nothing but a minor irritation. Meanwhile, back at the ranch; our 'stock value' keeps growing.

      Finally [thank F**k says you] - when people talk about 'City & Chelsea spending', they forget that it was needed to build teams from no-where, teams who weren't runners up, teams without a history (past or more recent). We weren't nowhere, we finished second, we have a history (past and recent) and we had money but... rather than deviate from some 'cunning', business 'master-plan' and rather than sully ourselves with "superstars" ['cause we make 'em, dont'cha know?]; we took 'aim' at "consolidation"... both financial and football (sadly). Whoopity-F***ing-doo.   ;D

      Catch y'all in January.   xxxxx:action-smiley-065:
      « Last Edit: Oct 19, 2014 12:11:13 pm by bad boy bubby »
      MIRO
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #15097: Oct 19, 2014 10:25:29 am
      You were right to have a sense of accomplishment FL - it was a fine achievement by Brendan and the lads. We deserved it and it shouldn't have been treated like some fluke but it has been, in my opinion.

      My alarm bells started ringing, before we signed or sold anyone, when I read that "we are a year ahead of ourselves" and that "we need to consolidate". That, to me, indicated that an awful lot of people thought what we'd achieved was a fluke and rather than 'pushing on', we were going to take a step back, re-evaluate and make the type of signings we could [should?] have made a season earlier.

      To be honest I haven't looked at this season's 'start' at all, when making my observations, FL. I have mentioned my (personal) concerns before - certainly prior to the start to this season: even last. As you know I've been a bit suspect of our transfer 'policy' ['cheap, young with potential'] for a long time. I just can't see it working, in any sustainable fashion. And certainly not when you want to 'improve' on a team which finished very worthy runners-up.

      Unlike other seasons, we were in a position where we could build from a position of strength; we weren't playing catch-up - we had caught up.

      The sale of Suarez meant we actually had the chance to "Spend like City & Chelsea" [by that I assume people mean buy top quality players btw] or, if you prefer; we had the means to sign "First team Improvers".

      Above all else - we should have used that money to bring in quality to fill the void left by Luis - a big ask for one player but maybe not two. Did we even try; did anyone, honestly, believe that the answer to that conundrum lay with Rickie & Mario?

      Instead we used the money to 'build a squad'; for what - to push on and win the League? The additional six Champions League games maybe? Nah... we built and filled the squad with cheap, young and with potential in the hope we could "consolidate" [and keep consolidating] so that, when the time comes to sell, we will have made a tidy profit.

      Then, the theory being [at least, the theory that a lot of people have bought into], if that all works out... maybe, just maybe, we can use that money to sign quality players to er... replace the quality players we have already sold. You know - just like Arsenal and Dortmund?   :-\

      Theory is one thing; reality another.

      The theory is [just like Arsenal & Dortmund] - a good coach can work wonders with young players and deliver titles. It's a nice notion and it appeals to the romantic in us all... after all with "limited funds", the under-dogs are knocking it to the 'big boys'; aren't they? but...

      The reality is - the 'big boys', those who buy quality players [from Arsenal & Dortmund or elsewhere], will continually win titles and trophies. To them the odd 'blip' is nothing but a minor irritation. Meanwhile, back at the ranch; our 'stock value' keeps growing.

      Finally [thank f**k says you] - when people talk about 'City & Chelsea spending', they forget that it was needed to build teams from no-where, teams who weren't runners up, teams without a history (past or more recent). We weren't nowhere, we finished second, we have a history (past and recent) and we had money but... rather than deviate from some 'cunning', business 'master-plan' and rather than sully ourselves with "superstars" ['cause we make 'em, dont'cha know?]; we took 'aim' at "consolidation"... both financial and football (sadly). Whoopity-f**king-doo.   ;D

      Catch y'all in January.   xxxxx:action-smiley-065:


      Brilliant Post.   
      Just Brilliant .

      + 1.
      billythered
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #15098: Oct 19, 2014 12:07:40 pm
      You were right to have a sense of accomplishment FL - it was a fine achievement by Brendan and the lads. We deserved it and it shouldn't have been treated like some fluke but it has been, in my opinion.

      My alarm bells started ringing, before we signed or sold anyone, when I read that "we are a year ahead of ourselves" and that "we need to consolidate". That, to me, indicated that an awful lot of people thought what we'd achieved was a fluke and rather than 'pushing on', we were going to take a step back, re-evaluate and make the type of signings we could [should?] have made a season earlier.

      To be honest I haven't looked at this season's 'start' at all, when making my observations, FL. I have mentioned my (personal) concerns before - certainly prior to the start to this season: even last. As you know I've been a bit suspect of our transfer 'policy' ['cheap, young with potential'] for a long time. I just can't see it working, in any sustainable fashion. And certainly not when you want to 'improve' on a team which finished very worthy runners-up.

      Unlike other seasons, we were in a position where we could build from a position of strength; we weren't playing catch-up - we had caught up.

      The sale of Suarez meant we actually had the chance to "Spend like City & Chelsea" [by that I assume people mean buy top quality players btw] or, if you prefer; we had the means to sign "First team Improvers".

      Above all else - we should have used that money to bring in quality to fill the void left by Luis - a big ask for one player but maybe not two. Did we even try; did anyone, honestly, believe that the answer to that conundrum lay with Rickie & Mario?

      Instead we used the money to 'build a squad'; for what - to push on and win the League? The additional six Champions League games maybe? Nah... we built and filled the squad with cheap, young and with potential in the hope we could "consolidate" [and keep consolidating] so that, when the time comes to sell, we will have made a tidy profit.

      Then, the theory being [at least, the theory that a lot of people have bought into], if that all works out... maybe, just maybe, we can use that money to sign quality players to er... replace the quality players we have already sold. You know - just like Arsenal and Dortmund?   :-\

      Theory is one thing; reality another.

      The theory is [just like Arsenal & Dortmund] - a good coach can work wonders with young players and deliver titles. It's a nice notion and it appeals to the romantic in us all... after all with "limited funds", the under-dogs are knocking it to the 'big boys'; aren't they? but...

      The reality is - the 'big boys', those who buy quality players [from Arsenal & Dortmund or elsewhere], will continually win titles and trophies. To them the odd 'blip' is nothing but a minor irritation. Meanwhile, back at the ranch; our 'stock value' keeps growing.

      Finally [thank f**k says you] - when people talk about 'City & Chelsea spending', they forget that it was needed to build teams from no-where, teams who weren't runners up, teams without a history (past or more recent). We weren't nowhere, we finished second, we have a history (past and recent) and we had money but... rather than deviate from some 'cunning', business 'master-plan' and rather than sully ourselves with "superstars" ['cause we make 'em, dont'cha know?]; we took 'aim' at "consolidation"... both financial and football (sadly). Whoopity-f**king-doo.   ;D

      Catch y'all in January.   xxxxx:action-smiley-065:



      Only two words can describe your post mate;


      f***in Class.!

      Superb posting

      YNWA
      MIRO
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #15099: Oct 22, 2014 10:02:25 pm
      His dossier was impressive though .....
      waltonl4
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #15100: Oct 22, 2014 10:45:21 pm
      He is spot on now we are told this is a new team that needs time.WTF it finished a very creditable second and with some flare and style. What has happened ok Luis has gone but the spirit of the team has been diluted by flooding the squad with too many players who bring very little to last seasons squad.
      The usual posters shout loudly to protect Brendan but its the club that should be their first concern it will be here after Brendan has gone.
      FSG should look at their investment and wonder how with an input of £100 mil they have now got a far less attractive and effective club.
      something has gone terribly wrong at Anfield
      Paisleydalglish
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #15101: Oct 22, 2014 10:48:43 pm

      The usual posters shout loudly to protect Brendan but its the club that should be their first concern

      Walton what's the point of utter bollocks like that?

      Every f**ker on here cares about the club and the club alone.. Why try to suggest you care more than others?

      tw*t
      waltonl4
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #15102: Oct 22, 2014 10:59:33 pm
      Walton what's the point of utter bollocks like that?

      Every f**ker on here cares about the club and the club alone.. Why try to suggest you care more than others?

      T**t

      that's not my point some seem to put Brendan on a pedestal before he has done anything of note.Any criticism of him is met with the usual bollox.
      AZPatriot
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #15103: Oct 22, 2014 11:01:09 pm
      that's not my point some seem to put Brendan on a pedestal before he has done anything of note.Any criticism of him is met with the usual bollox.

      A lot of it is people overacting to the posters that are slipping in the digs and jabs at the gaffer about teeth, cars, paintings..etc..etc.

      There is plenty of knees jerking in both directions to be fair.
      waltonl4
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #15104: Oct 22, 2014 11:04:05 pm
      A lot of it is people overacting to the posters that are slipping in the digs and jabs at the gaffer about teeth, cars, paintings.

      There is plenty of knees jerking in both directions

      I have never mentioned his teeth or his home life I always refer to football issues only.
      the less he says to the press the better because they will be the first to start throwing it back in his face when things go wrong.
      I have never bought into the hype around him he is a very charming man and easy to listen to but football is ultimately about success and trophies.
      AZPatriot
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #15105: Oct 22, 2014 11:05:41 pm
      I have never mentioned his teeth or his home life I always refer to football issues only.
      the less he says to the press the better because they will be the first to start throwing it back in his face when things go wrong.
      I have never bought into the hype around him he is a very charming man and easy to listen to but football is ultimately about success and trophies.

      I never mentioned your name Walton, I was just referring to many posts in the gaffers thread and why some supporters may go above and beyond in defending him.
      waltonl4
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #15106: Oct 22, 2014 11:06:44 pm
      I never mentioned your name Walton, I was just referring to many posts in the gaffers thread and why some supporters may go above and beyond in defending him.

      I know I wasn't taking it personally. I think he would be a much better manager if he lowered his profile.
      IrishRed_IO
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #15107: Oct 22, 2014 11:10:51 pm
      Not sure why this thread has even been bumped?
      srslfc
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #15108: Oct 22, 2014 11:23:19 pm
      Not sure why this thread has even been bumped?

      Was wondering the same so came in to have a look and thought it was the Brendan thread. ;D
      Benito
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #15109: Oct 22, 2014 11:26:36 pm
      I don't think Brendans the problem. I cant see FSG wanting to spank 30mill + on 1 player again, post Caroll.



      waltonl4
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      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #15110: Oct 22, 2014 11:27:54 pm
      I don't think Brendans the problem. I cant see FSG wanting to spank 30mill + on 1 player again, post Caroll.





      the whole transfer stuff needs to be unravelled to see what has gone wrong with spending all that money on avg players

      Quick Reply