NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

It won't be a DOF who attracts a big name manager it will be the allure of a big name club and for some one like Klopp the chance to build a club again like he did with Dortmund.

If the same strategies are in place for Klopp he will fail miserably, this is not Dortmund nor is it the one horse race that is the Bundsliga; he is 8th right now in a league where there is Bayren and then everyone else. Yes he has won, and no I am not diminishing him (in fact I like him).

I contend that if Dortmund was in the PL his rebuild would have gotten Dortmund right where we are now...sniffing top 4 with an occasional lucky moment.

Rebuilding thru youth, while never paying over the top transfer fees and ridiculous salaries will get a team 5-8th in the PL.

So unless ownership does an about face we will rebuild for a few years, hope to catch lighting in a bottle and then rinse and repeat.

Never underestimate the pull of our club Stuey.

Also many managers think they will be the one to make the difference.

It's a bit of an ego thing.

The status of our club has been F***ing vandalised mate, ripped to F***ing shreds. It is no longer regarded as a top job.
Let's not forget of course what we as supporters would regard as management failings would be actively pursued by JWH & Co.

Rebuilding thru youth, while never paying over the top transfer fees and ridiculous salaries will get a team 5-8th in the PL.

You don't think we have overpaid for some players? You're happy with the outlay on Markovic, Moreno, Lovren, Lallana, Balotelli?

We spend money. We spend a lot of money. We spend that money on utter sh*te.

We spend money. We spend a lot of money. We spend that money on utter sh*te.

You think FSG would allow Liverpool to buy older players on big wages like Tevez, Pirlo and Evra as Juventus have done with great success in recent years?

You don't think we have overpaid for some players? You're happy with the outlay on Markovic, Moreno, Lovren, Lallana, Balotelli?

We spend money. We spend a lot of money. We spend that money on utter sh*te.

This all day long

You think FSG would allow Liverpool to buy older players on big wages like Tevez, Pirlo and Evra as Juventus have done with great success in recent years?

No of course not, however can you tell me that there was nobody better than lallana, markovic and lovren for the prices we paid for them?

Lallana cost more than Suarez, Torres, Alonso, Mascherano and a bunch of other great players we've had over recent years.

Lovren and Markovic cost just a few mil less than Suarez and Torres.

Put it this way if someone in the summer come up to me and I didn't already know...

They said we've just bought a 20 mil attacker, 25 mil midfielder and a 20 mil defender...

Never in a million years would I have guesses any of those three names.

We really do have sh*t judgement in talent.

Look at where most of the players Rafa bought are now playing.

How many of last summers signings do you think will be poached by Barcelona or Real?

You think FSG would allow Liverpool to buy older players on big wages like Tevez, Pirlo and Evra as Juventus have done with great success in recent years?

To be fair. Evra hasn't contributed much there and he was brought in for free. Pirlo was also a free and Tevez was brought in for next to nothing. Yes I think FSG would consider those signings if we didn't have to pay an additional transfer fee and if their statistics people say that the players are productive enough.

It seems like the FSG policy so far (regardless of age) has been

No transfer fee + good stats + high wages = okay

High transfer fee + good stats + okay wages = okay

High transfer fee + good stats + high wages = what the hell are you smoking?!?

After all we have brought in Toure who isn't earning peanuts and Lambert is no spring chicken either.

No of course not, however can you tell me that there was nobody better than lallana, markovic and lovren for the prices we paid for them?

Lallana cost more than Suarez, Torres, Alonso, Mascherano and a bunch of other great players we've had over recent years.

Lovren and Markovic cost just a few mil less than Suarez and Torres.

Put it this way if someone in the summer come up to me and I didn't already know...

They said we've just bought a 20 mil attacker, 25 mil midfielder and a 20 mil defender...

Never in a million years would I have guesses any of those three names.

We really do have sh*t judgement in talent.

Look at where most of the players Rafa bought are now playing.

How many of last summers signings do you think will be poached by Barcelona or Real?

Maybe that's their plan mate, buy players that nobody else wants.

To be fair. Evra hasn't contributed much there and he was brought in for free. Pirlo was also a free and Tevez was brought in for next to nothing. Yes I think FSG would consider those signings if we didn't have to pay an additional transfer fee and if their statistics people say that the players are productive enough.

I don't think FSG's policies would have allowed any Liverpool manager to sign players like Tevez or Pirlo a few years ago. Toure and Lambert are on peanuts on a weekly basis compared to Pirlo and Tevez. Evra is in their team and they'll win the league and reach probably Champions League semis at least. He isn't brilliant for them, but his experience has been useful to their team in big games. Moreno's inexperience has hurt us in crucial matches.

Juventus are no richer than us yet have a far better team and squad. So how flexible we are in spending our money, along with our judgement of players, are clearly our major problems in the market.

can you tell me that there was nobody better than lallana, markovic and lovren for the prices we paid for them?

Of course there was. I said at the time buying three average Southampton players for £50m was more Carroll/Downing folly. But of course at the time fans always say 'give them time'. Overpaying for mediocre British players is something we never learn from.

Some big decisions need to be made, if Rodgers gets another year then looks like DOF might have to be forced on him.
Looking at the players which were clearly his choice Lallana, Lovren, Balotelli, Allen Borini it's clear he does not have a eye for a player.

Where as at least the much maligned transfer committee signings Sakho, Coutinho,  Sturridge and to a lesser degree likes of Markovic and Moreno have been the sort of players you expect at our club.

We know Rodgers is a decent coach so time for him to stick at what he is good at.

Some big decisions need to be made, if Rodgers gets another year then looks like DOF might have to be forced on him.
Looking at the players which were clearly his choice Lallana, Lovren, Balotelli, Allen Borini it's clear he does not have a eye for a player.

Where as at least the much maligned transfer committee signings Sakho, Coutinho,  Sturridge and to a lesser degree likes of Markovic and Moreno have been the sort of players you expect at our club.

So, if I've got this right - all the poor signings are "clearly his choice" but all the good to middling players are obviously the work of the transfer committee; right? Interesting.

I wonder how that works; a bit like in a school-yard kick about maybe? Brendan gets first pick, then The Committee and so on until there's only the crap kid left "for goalie"?

Listen HSBc; I'm not saying you're wrong - there might very well be a semblance of of truth in what you say [that's the opaque nature of the system] but... (and it's probably me that's being as thick as sh*t here), something is puzzling me...

If your assertions and theory, on transfers, were any way accurate; why do you reckon that FSG would need to force a DoF on Brendan, when they have a perfectly good, functioning, Transfer Committee already in place?

My point being Brendan need to be taken out of the transfer committe.

Its fairly open knowledge he was not keen on Sturridge, Coutinho was a recommendation by Rafa and Lovren was bought to replace Sakho as Rodgers never rated him.

Im sure you could tell from the press leaks and Rodgers gushing over the likes of Lovren, Lallana and Balotelli he was desperate for them.

My point being Brendan need to be taken out of the transfer committe.

Its fairly open knowledge he was not keen on Sturridge, Coutinho was a recommendation by Rafa and Lovren was bought to replace Sakho as Rodgers never rated him.

Im sure you could tell from the press leaks and Rodgers gushing over the likes of Lovren, Lallana and Balotelli he was desperate for them.

But Ayre needs to be removed too from that committee.

My point being Brendan need to be taken out of the transfer committe.

Its fairly open knowledge he was not keen on Sturridge, Coutinho was a recommendation by Rafa and Lovren was bought to replace Sakho as Rodgers never rated him.

Im sure you could tell from the press leaks and Rodgers gushing over the likes of Lovren, Lallana and Balotelli he was desperate for them.

I'm almost certain he didn't want Mario here, but what's wrong with signing Lallana?

Some big decisions need to be made, if Rodgers gets another year then looks like DOF might have to be forced on him.
Looking at the players which were clearly his choice Lallana, Lovren, Balotelli, Allen Borini it's clear he does not have a eye for a player.

The manager is in situ by appointment of the owners.
The creation of a DOF to monitor the manager brings to mind the FSG appointed Comolli to work with KD, both of course were eventually sacked, it is unthinkable that the same turn of events should be acted out with BR.
The manager is still employed by the owners because he has proved he is willing to work under the limitations they have in place.
The appointment of a DOF in that scenario interprets as the owners questioning their own policies.

Where as at least the much maligned transfer committee signings Sakho, Coutinho,  Sturridge and to a lesser degree likes of Markovic and Moreno have been the sort of players you expect at our club.

We know Rodgers is a decent coach so time for him to stick at what he is good at.

The impact of the limitations the manager works under, the signings you mention are all under the 30m mark - coincidentally the figure said to be the  JWH fee ceiling.

Id bet they dont feel as sick as us lot today just got an empty aching feeling inside that was as poor a semi final as I can remember us playing  and being as they run it they should take as much blame as BR .

My point being Brendan need to be taken out of the transfer committe.

Now I can see the logic in that point but that's not what you said originally mate so you can see where I was confused. In short: if you, genuinely, believe that Brendan has his pick (without any committee input; without any policy interference) - then you're right to believe he should be removed.

Personally I see a flawed system; an imperfect company 'model'; a policy which hasn't worked - not at Liverpool F.C. and not anywhere else. I see a (well documented) model, which is based on buying players with potential quality and/or little financial risk, as being at the heart of our problems. I believe that for as long as the model and policy is in place; the issues will remain.
 
FSG brought Damien Comolli to the club and sacked him - were they admitting they got it wrong?
FSG gave Kenny the managers job and sacked him - were they admitting they got it wrong?
FSG promoted Ian Ayre.
FSG approached Dave Fallows and Barry Hunter prior to Brendan Rodgers' arrival.
FSG signed Brendan (after an 'extensive search') as manager.
FSG introduced The Committee = Michael Edwards [brought in by Damien Comolli], his side-kick, Ian Graham [brought in by Edwards], Dave Fallows, Barry Hunter, Ian Ayre and Brendan Rodgers.

So...
 
#1 - If FSG "force" a DoF on Brendan - will that be an admittance that they got it wrong; that they shouldn't have abolished the role, in the first place?
#2 - If FSG take a different route by re-jigging The Committee - will that be an admittance that they got that wrong too?
#3 - What if FSG go ape-sh*t, blame Brendan and sack him - will that be an admittance that they shouldn't have signed Brendan; that their extensive recruitment drive was flawed; that they also got this wrong? 

Think about it HSBc (if some fans get their way) - In only four years we could see a regime which will have sacked Comolli, Kenny and Brendan whilst Edwards, Graham and Ayre remain. Their [those three] input won't diminish...  irrespective of who our manager is and that, for me, is scary.

In my opinion - if they have any footballing ambition - FSG need to have a moratorium on their low (financial) risk transfer policy and put less faith in Edwards & Graham. See what happens and 'adjust' from there.

Whoever we chose to 'blame' - the fact remains: our transfer policy/policies isn't not working and hasn't worked in 4.5 years.... something different needs to be done and only FSG have the power to do that.

Been nice chatting; catch you later mate. 

Id bet they dont feel as sick as us lot today just got an empty aching feeling inside that was as poor a semi final as I can remember us playing  and being as they run it they should take as much blame as BR .

You can blame the owners for the every day running of the club but you can't blame them for our players being a bunch of lazy bas**rds and our manager not having a clue how to in-game manage.

I've really no idea what needs to happen in the summer or what direction the Club, in a footballing sense, is going in anymore.

Brendan was pretty clear when he arrived in how he wanted us to play, how he saw the game being played and the type of players he needed to get us there.  He adapted during his first season when he realised we didn't have that type of player, the play improved and the results improved.  He adapted again during his second season with even better play and results.

He clearly knew he had to adapt again last summer when we lost Luis and tried to go back to his original vision but again he didn't have the players so he adapted again with great success until the injuries and suspensions happened.  Since then it's been makeshift, haphazard, disfunctional, a mishmash.

Is this down to the players, bad signings or Brendan?  It's probably a bit of everything.

Give him the right players and he's proved he can cobble together a fully functioning team, capable of challenging for the Title for a full season but he had plenty of time to work with those players as we had no midweek games to contend with. 

His weakness this season has been trying to work on the training pitch with double the number of players and half the time to do it.  He doesn't seem to work well with a big squad, he doesn't rotate much anyway and when he does it's never the right games or the right players he rotates. 

I guess this is down to inexperience, something he's not going to learn from unless he gets the chance to do it but something quite a few have stated in the last 3 seasons is, should a Liverpool manager be learning on the job?  Should any Manager of a Club who have big ambitions for success on the pitch be giving the job to a novice? 

This brings me onto our Owners.

If they do have big ambitions for the Club but still believe they can do it by developing our own top quality players, that's fine but the players we do bring in need to be the right players, with the right qualities for the Manager to work with or any Manager will struggle.  As it is we're just stock piling players that are neither wanted or needed, spending money we don't need to and we've ended up with a squad bloated to bursting point and needing yet another big clearout.  What we'll probably end up doing is finding loans for most of them because we can't sell them, then bringing in another load to replace the numbers without improving the quality.

Our TC have enough work to do finding the right players to bring in without hampering them by spending time and money trying to get the misfits out.

Somebody, somewhere took their eyes off the end game last summer and the football is suffering because of it. 

Maybe that's their plan mate, buy players that nobody else wants.

Fenway only ever talk in euphemisms.

So in there words, they "take active steps to avoid a bidding war for playing roster assets".

You don't think we have overpaid for some players? You're happy with the outlay on Markovic, Moreno, Lovren, Lallana, Balotelli?

We spend money. We spend a lot of money. We spend that money on utter sh*te.

Crouch,

We sure did over pay but I think JH statement was in regard to those transfer fees that will bring in world class players.

The quote itself was directly from him, its the difference between dropping 60 million on one player or 20 x 3 players and spreading out the risk.

The PR Dept soon got their arse in gear after the weekend didn't they?

All these "good news" stories suddenly appearing today. 

Brendan will be backed in the summer. 

£30m plus sales available. 

No intentions of sacking. 

Overhaul of the dreaded TC planned. 

Hendo set to agree new contract after saying it was put on hold till the summer