Trending Topics

      Next match: LFC v Brighton [Premier League] Sun 31st Mar @ 2:00 pm
      Anfield

      Today is the 28th of March and on this date LFC's match record is P26 W11 D3 L12

      NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

      Read 2643598 times
      0 Members and 7 Guests are viewing this topic.
      ayrton77
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 13,775 posts | 627 
      • © Established Quality Since 1977
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #17020: Apr 26, 2015 04:20:50 pm
      Then we have the biggest question of all: we just avoided FFP censure, yet people think we can afford to spend any amount we want. How do we spend more (forgetting that they have given BR over 200 million quid), where will the money come from, and how do we avoid FFP censure?

      Don't know about anyone else, but I understand that we have spent the maximum amount of money based on our revenue/expenditure.

      What I don't appreciate is the way that money seems to be restricted in the way it is spent.

      We have reportedly lost out on several players due to wage demands, and whilst we don't have the exact figures, it has been shown that we can very probably have signed less players of a higher quality, paid the going rate in terms of wages, and still not exceeded FFP rulings.

      Personally I can't understand that. We could buy ten average players and never get anywhere, or sign 2-3 excellent players on the right wages, use our academy players in some cup competitions, and at least have a dogs chance when facing top clubs.

      Same expenditure, but better chance (IMO) at actually winning something. Slower build, but more solid foundations as we aren't reconstructing every damn season, but adding to existing quality.

      But as I'm not a billionaire business man, I probably have no idea what I'm talking about.
      FATKOPITE10
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 14,342 posts | 3368 
      • Liverpool fc give me tourettes
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #17021: Apr 26, 2015 04:24:21 pm
      I'm actually glad he's beginning to speak out mate. He doesn't say much about the owners or the club's internal politics, so when he does, you can pretty much sense he's beginning to pissed off.

      Yesterday was so depressing. We dominated possession, but seeing a donkey like GJ labour lethargically, two average strikers come on and fail to make an impression and Stevie's decline all too apparent, it was a game begging to be decided by one moment of quality that we missed desperately. We just need a little more quality to push on, so FSG better start listening up.

      it's all well saying that but getting the best out of what he's got would put him on a sounder footing, if your in a position of strength it's easier to speak out
      stuey
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 35,963 posts | 3944 
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #17022: Apr 26, 2015 04:25:05 pm
      I'm actually glad he's beginning to speak out mate. He doesn't say much about the owners or the club's internal politics, so when he does, you can pretty much sense he's beginning to pissed off.

      Yesterday was so depressing. We dominated possession, but seeing a donkey like GJ labour lethargically, two average strikers come on and fail to make an impression and Stevie's decline all too apparent, it was a game begging to be decided by one moment of quality that we missed desperately. We just need a little more quality to push on, so FSG better start listening up.

      He has spoken out before when players he expressed an interest in were signed by other clubs, it is said on that occasion he was spoken to and told to wind his neck in.
      The restrictions are as unpopular as ever apparently.
      ozi_wozzy
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 2,552 posts | 304 
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #17023: Apr 26, 2015 04:27:37 pm
      He has spoken out before when players he expressed an interest in were signed by other clubs, it is said on that occasion he was spoken to and told to wind his neck in.
      The restrictions are as unpopular as ever apparently.

      That's depressing :(
      RedPuppy
      • Still European.
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 19,250 posts | 2854 
      • Parum Rutilus Canis: Illegitimi non carborundum
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #17024: Apr 26, 2015 04:39:02 pm
      I know this might be a tad controversial, but is anyone nearing the point of wanting to be taken over by some rich F***ing trillionaire that wants to buy us every top player available.

      I just want to WIN the F***ing League and shut every opposition c**t of a Supporter up, out there.

      Getting desperate now. It's been far too long!
      If I understand it correctly FFP would prevent that scenario anyway, the rampant buying of high priced talent that is.

      Unless the new owner owns another multi-billion pound company to pump money in to the club via a sponsorship.

      But as it stands, we have spent all we're allowed with FFP. Any more spending and we would have been fined when we got investigated.

      Isn't FFP just for Europe? We could still blitz domestic trophies.
      FATKOPITE10
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 14,342 posts | 3368 
      • Liverpool fc give me tourettes
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #17025: Apr 26, 2015 04:45:06 pm
      Isn't FFP just for Europe? We could still blitz domestic trophies.

      well i don't know if you aware that if you 'blitz' domestic trophies you end up in Europe
      RedPuppy
      • Still European.
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 19,250 posts | 2854 
      • Parum Rutilus Canis: Illegitimi non carborundum
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #17026: Apr 26, 2015 04:49:23 pm
      well i don't know if you aware that if you 'blitz' domestic trophies you end up in Europe

      Very true, I did know that!

      But AussieRed wants to win the LEAGUE.
      Arab Scouse
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 4,080 posts | 805 
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #17027: Apr 26, 2015 04:56:36 pm
      The quicker everybody on here realises that FSG have no interest or even financial motivation to 'win' anything then the better.  They win everyday they own the club.

      Disagree entirely, and it seems that there is lack of understanding on how a business usually operates from many on here (Not mentioning their policy, it's another debate). Every owner has an opportunity cost, the alternative investment they would make to make MORE money. If FSG had no interest or financial motivation to ''win'' anything then they wouldn't have invested in something that would reward them  less than if they did have to invest in something else that would reward them more (for example, investing in other sports ventures in the US that might make them richer than investing at Liverpool). They do know how Liverpool lucrative is, and for Liverpool to be lucrative it must be commercially strong and on the pitch even stronger. And just like Swab said, Liverpool has to be successful in order to cover the opportunity cost and make more. To add more to Swab's post, owners cannot take money from players' sales, it does not work that way, it never did. The money is almost always used to reinvest in improving the club's assets, be it buying more players or improving facilities, etc... The owners are only entitled to dividends at the end of each year (retained earnings on a balance sheet or Net Income). Whether how much the owners receive dividends depends a lot on the cost of capital of the club and how much financial risk the club carries.

      Now whether you agree with their transfer policy or not, it's another debate, and I do agree with some that they should take more gamble than spreading the money on buying youth instead of quality players, however, understanding how the business operates is important to know why they have come up with these strategies.
      Arab Scouse
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 4,080 posts | 805 
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #17028: Apr 26, 2015 05:05:11 pm
      Don't know about anyone else, but I understand that we have spent the maximum amount of money based on our revenue/expenditure.

      What I don't appreciate is the way that money seems to be restricted in the way it is spent.

      We have reportedly lost out on several players due to wage demands, and whilst we don't have the exact figures, it has been shown that we can very probably have signed less players of a higher quality, paid the going rate in terms of wages, and still not exceeded FFP rulings.

      Personally I can't understand that. We could buy ten average players and never get anywhere, or sign 2-3 excellent players on the right wages, use our academy players in some cup competitions, and at least have a dogs chance when facing top clubs.

      Same expenditure, but better chance (IMO) at actually winning something. Slower build, but more solid foundations as we aren't reconstructing every damn season, but adding to existing quality.

      But as I'm not a billionaire business man, I probably have no idea what I'm talking about.

      I echo your sentiment on taking more gamble, however, you have to take into account that quality players usually ask for higher wage structure. If we are going to buy 5 or 6 players for 40m rather than buying 1 or 2 for 40m, chances are that the 5 or 6 will have less total salaries expenditure than the 1 or 2 (Taking into account the contract structure of players, which I'm ignorant about, but I'm just assuming so I might be wrong). 
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 13,361 posts | 3462 
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #17029: Apr 26, 2015 05:19:46 pm
      Don't know about anyone else, but I understand that we have spent the maximum amount of money based on our revenue/expenditure.

      What I don't appreciate is the way that money seems to be restricted in the way it is spent.

      We have reportedly lost out on several players due to wage demands, and whilst we don't have the exact figures, it has been shown that we can very probably have signed less players of a higher quality, paid the going rate in terms of wages, and still not exceeded FFP rulings.

      Personally I can't understand that. We could buy ten average players and never get anywhere, or sign 2-3 excellent players on the right wages, use our academy players in some cup competitions, and at least have a dogs chance when facing top clubs.

      Same expenditure, but better chance (IMO) at actually winning something. Slower build, but more solid foundations as we aren't reconstructing every damn season, but adding to existing quality.

      But as I'm not a billionaire business man, I probably have no idea what I'm talking about.

      Again, this all seems very reasonable in isolation, but it starts to fall apart when you look at squad size, and then it boils down to a matter of the best way of achieving the same objective.
      We needed a bigger squad, I think we can all agree on that, and even with that bigger squad we have been short this season, particularly in defense and to a lesser extent, in attack.
      The only positions we have had surplus for this season is the middle of the park, to the extent that we have a CM playing on the right of a 3 man defense.


      So, to me it was right that we built the squad first, and then add to it later, which I'm hoping will come this summer. (and I do think we will add the "quality", and trim a few players out as well).

      People can argue that we should have done it the other way round, but when injuries start piling up we would barely have been able to field a team, let alone one capable of getting us further than we are now.
      JD
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 39,529 posts | 6887 
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #17030: Apr 26, 2015 05:36:18 pm
      then they wouldn't have invested in something that would reward them  less than if they did have to invest in

      I just want to clarify around this 'investment' phrase. 

      FSG haven't given the club £110M to build a new Main Stand.  They've loaned the club the money over 5 and a half years - and based on TV income it's pretty assured they will be getting it back.  The football club are going to be doing the 'investment' to the tune of around £20M a year.  £20M a year that won't be going towards on the field success for the next 5 and a half years.

      Suggesting FSG are investing in things like the stadium is like saying HSBC are buying me a house.
      shabbadoo
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 29,420 posts | 4581 
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #17031: Apr 26, 2015 05:41:58 pm
      They need to scrap the whole F***ing set up and start again.
      FL Red
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 31,048 posts | 6294 
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #17032: Apr 26, 2015 06:05:09 pm
      I just want to clarify around this 'investment' phrase. 

      FSG haven't given the club £110M to build a new Main Stand.  They've loaned the club the money over 5 and a half years - and based on TV income it's pretty assured they will be getting it back.  The football club are going to be doing the 'investment' to the tune of around £20M a year.  £20M a year that won't be going towards on the field success for the next 5 and a half years.

      Suggesting FSG are investing in things like the stadium is like saying HSBC are buying me a house.


      Well actually they are buying it, you are just paying them back. And I bet HSBC is making money off of the loan whereas isn't the loan from FSG giving the club interest free.

      The club couldn't afford to make improvements without a loan so yes, while they aren't saints by any means, it's a pretty good deal for the club because when they are long gone, a field will still be better for it arguably.
      JD
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 39,529 posts | 6887 
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #17033: Apr 26, 2015 06:14:30 pm
      And I bet HSBC is making money off of the loan whereas isn't the loan from FSG giving the club interest free.

      Do you think Fenway are giving LFC the loan out of sheer goodwill or do you think perhaps by doing so they are getting tax-relief somewhere along the line, for instance?

      Well actually they are buying it, you are just paying them back.

      Actually they're not.  Other customers with savings are.  Or whoever else they borrowed the money off.
      AZPatriot
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 9,944 posts | 1759 
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #17034: Apr 26, 2015 06:18:04 pm
      sheer goodwill or do you think perhaps by doing so they are getting tax-relief somewhere along the line, for instance?

      To be fair JD, there is no tax savings on an improvement, yeah you can write it off but you reclaim the depreciation back when it is sold.

      This is a easy way for them to improve the attractiveness of the club and improve revenue for when they go to sell thats about it.
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 13,361 posts | 3462 
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #17035: Apr 26, 2015 06:18:49 pm
      Do you think Fenway are giving LFC the loan out of sheer goodwill or do you think perhaps by doing so they are getting tax-relief somewhere along the line, for instance?

      Actually they're not.  Other customers with savings are.  Or whoever else they borrowed the money off.

      The club will get the tax relief.

      For the second part, those "customers" demand a return on their money, and they won't be getting any with this, besides which, JWH is no longer in business to any great extent, and trimmed his customers and his own portfolio right back to a minimum.
      My understanding is that this is a loan straight from the owners group at 0% interest.
      There's no way that money came anywhere apart from the owners because anyone else would want a return.

      There's no doubt that FSG will want a return on their investment, but that will come when they finally sell up.
      heimdall
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 13,818 posts | 2724 
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #17036: Apr 26, 2015 06:59:52 pm
      The club will get the tax relief.

      For the second part, those "customers" demand a return on their money, and they won't be getting any with this, besides which, JWH is no longer in business to any great extent, and trimmed his customers and his own portfolio right back to a minimum.
      My understanding is that this is a loan straight from the owners group at 0% interest.
      There's no way that money came anywhere apart from the owners because anyone else would want a return.

      There's no doubt that FSG will want a return on their investment, but that will come when they finally sell up.

      You are aware that we live in a capitalist economy right??? Why the hell should they not make a return on their investment, there's not that many Rich Arabs who buy football clubs as play things unfortunately, but I'm kind of glad that we are owned by normal owners who want to see the club on a stable financial footing rather than driving us into administration as Hicks and Gillett almost did.
      ayrton77
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 13,775 posts | 627 
      • © Established Quality Since 1977
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #17037: Apr 26, 2015 07:06:25 pm
      We needed a bigger squad, I think we can all agree on that, and even with that bigger squad we have been short this season, particularly in defense and to a lesser extent, in attack.

      I still maintain my position, really.

      You can talk about making a bigger squad, but when you're adding players - many players - of a quality that just isn't good enough to compete, then I fail to see the interest in bringing them in.

      Adding numbers of mediocre quality leaves us failing to advance more often than not in the cups, and then we're paying them to not even sit on the bench in many cases for the remaining league games.

      Which is why I said that the short term plan is bringing in smaller numbers of better quality, and if relying on the academy or youth fail in the cups, well that's just a hit we'll have to take.

      Following season, same plan, but the quality players start filling out the squad, and we start gaining some genuine depth and not just adding surplus.

      Anyway, all just two theories of possible ways foward since we're not in charge! ;D
      AmericanPlant
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 1,248 posts | 170 
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #17038: Apr 26, 2015 07:06:34 pm
      The club will get the tax relief.

      For the second part, those "customers" demand a return on their money, and they won't be getting any with this, besides which, JWH is no longer in business to any great extent, and trimmed his customers and his own portfolio right back to a minimum.
      My understanding is that this is a loan straight from the owners group at 0% interest.
      There's no way that money came anywhere apart from the owners because anyone else would want a return.

      There's no doubt that FSG will want a return on their investment, but that will come when they finally sell up.

      Or for those who'd rather NOT read the doublespeak.
      JW Henry made an almighty fuckup of his futures business. And all the customers fu**ed off.
      This "brilliant businessman" was actually giving useless returns with it.

      What has HAS been successful at in recent times  is the parasitic business model of "sports brands".
      ie
      1)give a load of bullshit promises.
      2)hold sports fans over a barrel.
      3)repeatedly tell them "give me the money or I'll kill the brand".

      Henry hasn't loaned the fans anything at 0%. He's loaned HIMSELF it.

      But hey, don't let any of that stop you giving us the tiresome propaganda.. :roll:
      Eddieo
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 1,705 posts | 158 
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #17039: Apr 26, 2015 07:09:12 pm
      You are aware that we live in a capitalist economy right??? Why the hell should they not make a return on their investment, there's not that many Rich Arabs who buy football clubs as play things unfortunately, but I'm kind of glad that we are owned by normal owners who want to see the club on a stable financial footing rather than driving us into administration as Hicks and Gillett almost did.

      Our owners are so far from a normal owner it is ridiculous. The vast majority of owners like football, the vast majority dont expect to make money, the vast majority make an effort in the January window.
      AmericanPlant
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 1,248 posts | 170 
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #17040: Apr 26, 2015 07:15:47 pm
      You are aware that we live in a capitalist economy right??? Why the hell should they not make a return on their investment, there's not that many Rich Arabs who buy football clubs as play things unfortunately, but I'm kind of glad that we are owned by normal owners who want to see the club on a stable financial footing rather than driving us into administration as Hicks and Gillett almost did.

      Because it was never an "investment" in the first place. It was a CULTURAL INSTITUTION.

      They're parasites. No one WANTED greedy, disinterested shysters running a football club, any more than they'd want the Church to become "Goldman Sachs Biblebashing  Investment Ventures Ltd".

      Fenway are just buyers of stolen goods. RBS (a similarly scummy bunch of rats) gagged the press on the whole issue of who made bids and why Shamway were accepted). Infact, beyond the bullshit press releases, no one could say for a factWHAT the terms of the deal were. OR infact, which faceless hedge funders actually DO own the club. (Remember how Gilette sold his share and NO ONE knew til MONTHS AFTER!) So much for the Prem Lge's "fit and proper persons" test.
      They dont even know WHO to test!

      The fans have repeatedly said they want to buy back their share of the club (or all of it). Guess what? Smarmy Henry said "f**k off plebs, we'll give Lebron James a share instead". Slimeball Purslow wouldn't even SPEAK to them.

      Fenway don't have good title, because they bought it via those who had acquired it via fraud.

      I don't cheer for Tesco. And I won't cheer for some div that thinks a football club is a "brand" or "investment". Any divvie who thinks football should be a "business" should stay well out of the way of a football forum.

      Spain and Germany show the fan ownership model is the best, the msot successful and the only intelligent approach.
      Football clubs as "limited companies" hellbent on profit and massaging the accounts for hedge fund backers is plain idiotic. Its the sort of sh*t William Hague would have come out with. As a 15yr old pipsqueak in the Young Contservatives.

      There's only one place for such parasitic sh*t.
      Down the toilet.


      Built by Shanks. Desecrated by Yanks. And cheered on by plants.
      AmericanPlant
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 1,248 posts | 170 
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #17041: Apr 26, 2015 07:23:51 pm
      Lets face it, the creeps never even VISITAnfield. Even the thickest must think that is (cough) "a little suspicious".
      Just look at the bull. Werner at San Diego Padres. Henry at Florida Marlins.
      Then you have the "we can compete with anyone in the transfer market". AND Werner's "we are fervent, FERVENT fans".

      It reminds me of that TV evangelist who said that God wants him to have a Learjet. And that the devil's followers were trying to stop him. For a while, I wondered why more fans haven't condemned SnakeOil Salesmen 2.0

      Then I remembered, they're either protesting online. Or they've knocked the whole thing on the head. After all, Anfield must have one of the lowest attendance levels for local fans in the Prem Lge.
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 13,361 posts | 3462 
      Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: New Owners of LFC
      Reply #17042: Apr 26, 2015 07:42:38 pm
      I still maintain my position, really.

      You can talk about making a bigger squad, but when you're adding players - many players - of a quality that just isn't good enough to compete, then I fail to see the interest in bringing them in.

      Adding numbers of mediocre quality leaves us failing to advance more often than not in the cups, and then we're paying them to not even sit on the bench in many cases for the remaining league games.

      Which is why I said that the short term plan is bringing in smaller numbers of better quality, and if relying on the academy or youth fail in the cups, well that's just a hit we'll have to take.

      Following season, same plan, but the quality players start filling out the squad, and we start gaining some genuine depth and not just adding surplus.

      Anyway, all just two theories of possible ways foward since we're not in charge! ;D

      It's a position I agree with in some respects.
      I'm not challenging the position as such, more looking at the other options.

      The only part of your post that I'd argue against is the part about mediocrity.
      IMO not a single mediocre player was bought last summer.
      OK, a couple of them might not be a good fit, but to me they are good players rather than mediocre, although few have shown quality so far in their time here. They are not top players, although a couple of them could turn out that way.

      It's all academic anyway, and really just discussing two sides of the same coin.

      Quick Reply