NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

Seriously, the sad part is that Fenway never even tried. Either the G&H in whole or in part. Or make a fresh start of it.

Even the "they backed Kenny" one is a pure bullshitter. Wage cuts should never have funded a modest net spend like that. Just WHO was on "too much money"? Joe Cole. Thats it.

Smaller clubs have become "bigger" competitors. Their investment in the team has given them better sponsorship income, Champs Lge income etc. Players want to play for them and get global recognition for it.

If you aren't investing what supposed rivals are investing, there is only one way to go - further away from them.

Fortunately, nearly everyone here can see that now.
The only question is what do we (the fans) do now.

Yes with a sprinkling of elite player to complement steady players like Hendo

With a couple of world class talents to compliment the rest..

Look what a Suarez did, with a fit Sturridge.. Look what happens when you lose that stardust

Two seasons ago we had that one elite player, that's all I'm hoping for now, I'm sure our structure should allow that

But we didn't buy any "elite" players - neither did Dortmund - neither did Atleti.

Alll those clubs bought players which became world class but at the time of purchase they weren't top-drawer moving for "elite" fees and wages.

Which brings us back to the central problem of identifying which players will develop into "elite" ones - that's our only route to success.

And if it was an easy problem to solve everyone else would already be doing it.

But we didn't buy any "elite" players - neither did Dortmund - neither did Atleti.

Alll those clubs bought players which became world class but at the time of purchase they weren't top-drawer moving for "elite" fees and wages.

Which brings us back to the central problem of identifying which players will develop into "elite" ones - that's our only route to success.

And if it was an easy problem to solve everyone else would already be doing it.

That's not the point I'm trying to make though

Why not cut the middle man and bring in one or two types that are already there at that level? Not a full squad just one or two.. We can afford that and it could transform a good squad into a challenging one

You don't have to develop every time

We aren't a small club

We are also in a cash rich league that Dortmund and Atleti aren't

Dortmund and Atleti would kill to have our spending money in the transfer market.

That's not the point I'm trying to make though

Why not cut the middle man and bring in one or two types that are already there at that level? Not a full squad just one or two.. We can afford that and it could transform a good squad into a challenging one

You don't have to develop every time

We aren't a small club

1. Because they come on big wages which means the rest of the team demands an uplift which costs disproportionately more and hence less money on the rest of the squad
2. Because players at the "elite" level want to play on the "elite" stages - which we are not able to offer
3. Because the right player has to be available to fit the weaknesses in our squad and that makes the job of finding those players even harder.

Man United aren't a small club either and their policy of chasing "elite" signings has gone up in flames. If Sturridge stays fit last season we would have pipped them to fourth - so would the strategy that failed them work for us?

Dortmund and Atleti would kill to have our spending money in the transfer market.

Right - so you make my point for me - the key thing is picking the right players, not the most expensive ones or the "elite" ones.

The question is how to do that.

1. Because they come on big wages which means the rest of the team demands an uplift which costs disproportionately more and hence less money on the rest of the squad
2. Because players at the "elite" level want to play on the "elite" stages - which we are not able to offer
3. Because the right player has to be available to fit the weaknesses in our squad and that makes the job of finding those players even harder.

Man United aren't a small club either and their policy of chasing "elite" signings has gone up in flames. If Sturridge stays fit last season we would have pipped them to fourth - so would the strategy that failed them work for us?

1. You are assuming that, maybe the squad would be happy like they were with Suarez here and with Sturridges pay rise to take home their 4m a year if they were challenging for titles and competing in the CL regularly

2. It's not impossible to bring those types of players in (one or two) without CL football now if they saw the potential of the club to take them there in the short term, both Utd and City did it prior to CL football by offering that money and promise

3. The right player (not saying it's that easy to get them like but just open your mind to the possibility) could be that right player by simply being of that level and you build a system to get the most out of them and others in the squad

I'm not sure Utd have gone about it the right way personally either, I know though that they can attract them, they have done and they got themselves back in the CL, if they continue there I'm sure more will come as well.

Its not impossible, but if you believe it is (as a club) then it becomes so.. And if we continue to believe we can't compete with the other big clubs then we won't..

Right - so you make my point for me - the key thing is picking the right players, not the most expensive ones or the "elite" ones.

The question is how to do that.

The point is our spending power is considerably greater than the two teams mentioned and added to the weak Euro we can afford 1 or 2 elite players.

13 of the 24 players bought over the last two years are either sold or loaned out which suggest what w are doing is not working and as I have pointed out previously we would not be increasing our spend any more than what we have done over wasted punts.

Whats really depressing is we do not have 1 world class player any more. This despite the club never having such high revenues.

Its not impossible, but if you believe it is (as a club) then it becomes so.. And if we continue to believe we can't compete with the other big clubs then we won't..

it IS possible - you need a smart gameplan like Atleti or Dortmund.
 
Our plan was good enough to come within a whisker of winning the league so perhaps we should persist with it for a bit given we have gone two and a half decades without doing so?

The point is our spending power is considerably greater than the two teams mentioned

Dortmund have to overcome Bayren

Athletico have to overcome Barca & Real

We have to overcome Chelsea, United, City & now Arsenal.

Totally different leagues with massive difference on the finances in each league.

Apple to oranges to kumquat comparison.

Probably can be done on a limited scale but its a little more complicated in the Premier League than the one horse race that is the Bundsliga.

Wasn't quite sure where to put this.  It has some loose references to FSG and John Henry as it is about the scene around Fenway Park prior to FSG taking over the Red Sox.  Mostly just an interesting story but does comment on how FSG cleaned things up and made attending games more family friendly.

http://grantland.com/features/yankees-suck-t-shirts-boston-red-sox/

The point is our spending power is considerably greater than the two teams mentioned and added to the weak Euro we can afford 1 or 2 elite players.

13 of the 24 players bought over the last two years are either sold or loaned out which suggest what w are doing is not working and as I have pointed out previously we would not be increasing our spend any more than what we have done over wasted punts.

Whats really depressing is we do not have 1 world class player any more. This despite the club never having such high revenues.

But what you are ignoring is that us having more money than previously doesn't give us an advantage when our four rival for the title all have more money than they did previously.

The number of "world class" players available is small at any one time - if you are world class you have your pick of going to any number of clubs that can pay eye-watering wages and compete at the top level.

United, who can pay more than us, have won everything more recently than us, have equally as big aa worldwide audience as we do and have a world-famous manager can't attract "world class" players to their squad so how are we going to?

We're not even in the Champion's League. Telling some South American they should choose us over all the other big clubs because we were dominant in the 80s isn't really going to cut it.

Which world class player do you think we have a chance of getting?

it IS possible - you need a smart gameplan like Atleti or Dortmund.
 
Our plan was good enough to come within a whisker of winning the league so perhaps we should persist with it for a bit given we have gone two and a half decades without doing so?

I struggle to see the plan though when the turnover of players within 12 month periods, the chopping and changing of formation each season, the start again nature every season..

What are we expecting these lads who could potentially be the next Suarez do it within 3 months or get shunted for the next big thing.

Atleti and Dortmund don't play in as competitive nor cash rich league either

If I saw a plan I'd be happy to get behind it.. But the fingers crossed eyes squinted plan is losing its effect on me

Forget two and a half decades for a minute, this most recent plan is in its forth season and is a few mole hills than an over riding arch

Wasn't quite sure where to put this.  It has some loose references to FSG and John Henry as it is about the scene around Fenway Park prior to FSG taking over the Red Sox.  Mostly just an interesting story but does comment on how FSG cleaned things up and made attending games more family friendly.

http://grantland.com/features/yankees-suck-t-shirts-boston-red-sox/

Baseball to football have no similarities except they are both considered a sport; there would be nothing to gleen from a comparison of the ownership.

Right - so you make my point for me - the key thing is picking the right players, not the most expensive ones or the "elite" ones.

The question is how to do that.

Well, one thing Atletico does different. They don't focus as much on just young talent and potential. Look at their strikers. Aguero left, Falcao came in. Falcao left, David Villa came in. Ofcourse they also buy young talent, which is where Diego Costa came in and eventually succeeded for them. But they don't rely on it as much. And after they sell him, they buy a 28 year old Mandzukic to replace him. And now a 28 year old Jackson Martinez to replace Mandzukic. Even resigning a 30 year old Filipe Luis for 10 million pounds like they did this summer seems unlikely under our current ownership.

Baseball to football have no similarities except they are both considered a sport; there would be nothing to gleen from a comparison of the ownership.

Disagree to an extent but it's a great read none the less. If you need a reprieve from the forums give it a go.  If not, no harm no foul.

Well, one thing Atletico does different. They don't focus as much on just young talent and potential. Look at their strikers. Aguero left, Falcao came in. Falcao left, David Villa came in. Ofcourse they also buy young talent, which is where Diego Costa came in and eventually succeeded for them. But they don't rely on it as much. And after they sell him, they buy a 28 year old Mandzukic to replace him. And now a 28 year old Jackson Martinez to replace Mandzukic. Even resigning a 30 year old Filipe Luis for 10 million pounds like they did this summer seems unlikely under our current ownership.

They also have different tax and employment rules for South american players which makes it much easier to attract them.

Nevertheless they have done well to identify which players are likely to be a success - my question is how we do the same.

They also have different tax and employment rules for South american players which makes it much easier to attract them.

Nevertheless they have done well to identify which players are likely to be a success - my question is how we do the same.

Hollywood the one point you have neglected to mention in your posts is the manager or coach at the clubs and the impact they have had on Dortmund's and Athletico's recent successes.

Hollywood the one point you have neglected to mention in your posts is the manager or coach at the clubs and the impact they have had on Dortmund's and Athletico's recent successes.

I don't know if our players are good enough to win the league no matter the manager...that being said I have little doubt now that we should probably be getting more out of the players we have and that comes down to the manager.

I don't know if our players are good enough to win the league no matter the manager...

Maybe not but they are a hell of a lot better than what we had to witness at the weekend.

Hollywood the one point you have neglected to mention in your posts is the manager or coach at the clubs and the impact they have had on Dortmund's and Athletico's recent successes.

Not true - in fact i started a thread on Brendan Vs Klopp.

Similar CVs when they got the big job at Liverpool / Dortmund - Klopp went on to beat Bayern to the title, Brendan had three teams to beat and came a narow second.

Both managers relied on transfer committees buying players (Klopp obviously was at an advantage in getting better ones) - both managers had major problems when the best players were sold on (klopp doing badly enough to lose his job).

Simeone has done a fantastic job but again the problem arises of predicting that before he has done it. Would you seriously have sacked Brendan after he came second in the league and given his job to Simeone?

They also have different tax and employment rules for South american players which makes it much easier to attract them.

Nevertheless they have done well to identify which players are likely to be a success - my question is how we do the same.

Well, having the right people in the right places I guess, and having the right structure.

Clemente Villaverde - General Director of football
José Luis Pérez Caminero - Sporting Director
Andrea Berta - Technical Director
Emilio Gutiérrez Boullosa - Academy Director
Carlos Aguilera - Academy Sporting Director
Miguel Ángel Ruiz - Academy Technical Director

They have a structure in place that we don't. A structure that has provided consistency. Not to mention that Villaverde, Caminero, Aguilera and Ruiz are all former Atletico players, who have the club's best interest at heart. Managers' role is actually limited when it comes to transfers and such.  And it wasn't untill after Simeone was succesfull, and he extended his contract last season, that he was allowed more input.

that being said I have little doubt now that we should probably be getting more out of the players we have and that comes down to the manager.

Maybe not but they are a hell of a lot better than what we had to witness at the weekend.

Agree 100%