NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

It was interesting listening to the TAW guys talking to the SoS, SpionKop and other group leaders regarding what is happening with the owners. These guys have been meeting with the club for 13 months regarding ticket prices and trying to head off what happened this passed weekend.

General consensus from the three major groups was that FSG were no H&G not by a long shot; however there is a deep deep what they believe cultural divide that separates the two parties...ownership/supporters.

Seemed from the conversation it was like humans talking to martians...at one point the Spion Kop guy had talked to Gordon a few weeks ago and spoke about a trend to over time lower prices across the board...Gordon just looked at him with a blank face as responded.."why on earth would we ever do that?"

Coming from the three groups representatives it is obvious that those people from the club that the owners count on to advise them (ie..the chapel street crowd) have really not been advising but moreso just paying lip service and not explaining how serious the issues are with Boston. They mentioned how the walkout totally threw the owners off and that the so called advisers are probably being called to the carpet on this.

In the end who knows...as they said PL owners are a great big gentleman's club and it might take a league wide protest to make this happen for all clubs just not LFC.

I am not in the same boat as all of the FSG crowd, as I feel they are not that bad as owners. They are not the best owners don't get me wrong, but they are not evil incarnate as some have been painting them on here.

Today's announcement for me is a step in the right direction, was a quick response, and hopefully will be a step in the right direction going forward.

Let's see how much of a step in the summer, and how much they will back Klopp, the real tester for me.

Three threads discussing it so not sure which one to post in but kudos to both sides.

The fans made their voice heard and the owners listened. Well done.

The only one to come out of this with significant damage is Ian Ayre - no surprise there. What an eggplant.

Well done to the owners for listening to the fans.

The only one to come out of this with significant damage is Ian Ayre - no surprise there. What an eggplant.

Meh. He'll just be acting on instructions from Boston.

Meh. He'll just be acting on instructions from Boston.

Largely, yes. He wasn't reading from a script the other day with his "fact" speech, though. If he was, it would've sounded like the message FSG put out on the official website.

Like i've said a few times, i think he's a very good businessman but he;s not a football person and should be let go.

Thanks for posting that article Huyton Red - it illustrates what ive been saying.

There's a balance between charging for tickets and investing money in the squad.

We can't simultaneously be saying we should have lower ticket prices than, say, Arsenal but then complain that we shoudl be spending more money than them on transfers.

At some point a decision has to be made.

The fans spoke, the owners listened - credit all round.

Fairplay to our Owners, to fix this problem before the next home game deserves applause. A lot of clubs and owners around the world would have not done it so quick or even done it at all. I hope the H&G comparisons can stop, FSG isn't perfect but they aren't nearly as bad as those two knobs. I thought it was nice touch by them with a letter and an apology, showed that they actually want to do right and didn't just do this to shut the fans up.
Not saying we should start singing about them on match days but with them bringing in Klopp and actually listening to fans they have shown that may be they are still learning which is better not giving a f**k

Exactly . They have delivered.


In spite of giving a rookie a couple of hundred million to spend in the sweet shop and being burnt.

Exactly . They have delivered.


In spite of giving a rookie a couple of hundred million to spend in the sweet shop and being burnt.

I think the money we have pissed away since there tenure is what pisses me off the most and I imagine it's what pisses most of the fans off also.
There is no comparison between FSG & H&G I think we have all seen that since they have been here.
Come the summer & what ever money we have & generate I just hope it is spent more astutely ,wisely & more importantly on quality.

Mathew Syed, well the less said the better. So his answer is to virtually ban anyone on less than £50k a year. How can a so called football/sports writer not understand the history of the game and its supporters especially clubs like Liverpool. the fact this man aspires to become a Labour MP says all you need to know. His idea of working class probably thinks you have to drive a Jag rather than a Bentley

The thing to take away from that article is how we can learn from it. There are points in there that can be debated which can result in a better outcome for all. Whilst the message isn't necessarily something to agree with on face value, it does present ideas and debates that keeps the discussion going. That's a good thing.

Hoping a greater good comes out of this for the sake of both parties.

Credit where credit is due to FSG. Must grate with some people 

PR facesaving, no?

PR facesaving, no?

Id say so.

Credit where credit's due indeed but that doesn't mean eyes are taken off them.

One demonstration of solidarity resulting in a climb down doth not maketh one trust those with authority, never has and never will.

A battle has been won but something in the pit of my stomach tells me there's more to come.

they are getting credit for being found out and not increasing the prices so the fans are actually no better off and we will need to see what happens next. I find it laughable that they loan money to themselves to build their stadium but want the fans to pay them back. There is so much slight of hand stuff going on but in the end they will win one way or another because they hold most of the cards

they are getting credit for being found out and not increasing the prices so the fans are actually no better off and we will need to see what happens next. I find it laughable that they loan money to themselves to build their stadium but want the fans to pay them back. There is so much slight of hand stuff going on but in the end they will win one way or another because they hold most of the cards

SoS & Spion leaders were saying they don't see any slight of hand nor do they believe FSG does anything nefarious to the club.

SoS & Spion leaders were saying they don't see any slight of hand nor do they believe FSG does anything nefarious to the club.

what about "loaning money" to a club they own to build a new Stand in their Stadium and we are supposed to be grateful because we don't pay interest on the loan. They may well not be twit and tw*t but they have the same objective to make money from LFC .Whilst its honourable to make the club self sufficient it would be much easier to increase revenue from Sponsors if we were winning the league and playing in the CL every season at present we are were we are and will remain there unless something changes.

I think the money we have pissed away since there tenure is what pisses me off the most and I imagine it's what pisses most of the fans off also.
There is no comparison between FSG & H&G I think we have all seen that since they have been here.
Come the summer & what ever money we have & generate I just hope it is spent more astutely ,wisely & more importantly on quality.

Excellent Post   +1

what about "loaning money" to a club they own to build a new Stand in their Stadium and we are supposed to be grateful because we don't pay interest on the loan. They may well not be twit and tw*t but they have the same objective to make money from LFC .Whilst its honourable to make the club self sufficient it would be much easier to increase revenue from Sponsors if we were winning the league and playing in the CL every season at present we are were we are and will remain there unless something changes.

Well they loaned it with zero interest...I guess they could have borrowed it from RBS for 4-5% and the club could have paid the banks back.

Look Walton £260 million is really no small some of money, there is no interest being paid and they said they were going to do it this way from the get go so really nobody got lied to.

Tweedle Dee & Tweedle Dumb borrowed £59 million from RBS at a 9% interest for a set of plans, and a shovel.

Perfect scenario is that Sheikh Igotalotofdoshiwanttogiv eawy  comes to town builds the stand fixes the squad and then gives it to the supporters as a gift...but that is not reality.

Reality is that something that should have got done 20-25 years ago is getting done and the club is not being bent over by outside debt.
 

Shovel in the ground? fairytale






or reality:




Getting it done is what matters.

Meh. He'll just be acting on instructions from Boston.

As ever Ayre is their damage absorber, they appoint him and they instruct him.

As ever Ayre is their damage absorber, they appoint him and they instruct him.

I don't think so mate. I think Ayre as CEO would have been in charge of ticket prices and it's his fuckup that has meant FSG have had to step in.

what about "loaning money" to a club they own to build a new Stand in their Stadium and we are supposed to be grateful because we don't pay interest on the loan. They may well not be twit and tw*t but they have the same objective to make money from LFC .Whilst its honourable to make the club self sufficient it would be much easier to increase revenue from Sponsors if we were winning the league and playing in the CL every season at present we are were we are and will remain there unless something changes.

Any owner of any club/franchise/business wants to make money. They'd be sh*t businessmen and they'd be broke if they didn't.

I think we've got it good regarding the stadium, too. No interest payments on a loan is a bloody significant thing. When you look at Arsenal building the Emirates, it took a couple of seasons before they were profiting on it due to interest payments and it would've been longer if they didn't sell the naming rights to the Emirates.

Regardless of that, if they were in it for money - purely and simply, just money - they're beyond stupid because clubs don't make as much as you'd think they do. ROI's on their investment can be much higher in other fields, or it can be safer in another field. They could put hundreds of millions and still come out with a loss at the end of the day.

The take away from this, at least in my eyes, is we have owners that want to win and have brought in a manager they think can lead us to that. They have put their own money in, looked to build our infrastructure and facilities, spent on the squad and now reneged on a pricing system their fans thought was unfair. Of course, the result of this is not much progress on the pitch (largely thanks to a manager that proved to be largely incompetent and that is a fault of theirs as well as Brendan's and the committee) but i don't think we're that far off right now. All it takes is smarter business in the market and all of a sudden things look much better than right now.

All of what i have said could end up going to shits and we see another 5 years of underachieving but to this stage, i don't think i can fault them too much. And right now the team is in Jürgen Klopp's hands. There's plenty to be positive about in the near future.

PR facesaving, no?

Of course. But every action they make has a PR side to it. This being a positive PR move is only beneficial and i think they should be given credit for doing so because they didn't have to.

They could've kept the prices up and people would still pay whatever the price. The reaction would be negative towards them but it would still result in more money in the bank but they overturned.

Note - i still don't think their initial plan to increase the prices was a horrible thing to do. It is almost a guaranteed move from any club that improves their facilities but it was just poor timing given the discussion on ticket prices, as well as the TV deal coming in. Right move at the wrong time. They learned, overturned and the fans are the winners in this.

I look like a massive arse licker but i wouldn't say it if i didn't truly think we are in good hands. Especially being a cynical little sh*t like i am

Well they loaned it with zero interest...I guess they could have borrowed it from RBS for 4-5% and the club could have paid the banks back.

Look Walton £260 million is really no small some of money, there is no interest being paid and they said they were going to do it this way from the get go so really nobody got lied to.

Tweedle Dee & Tweedle Dumb borrowed £59 million from RBS at a 9% interest for a set of plans, and a shovel.

Perfect scenario is that Sheikh Igotalotofdoshiwanttogiv eawy  comes to town builds the stand fixes the squad and then gives it to the supporters as a gift...but that is not reality.

Reality is that something that should have got done 20-25 years ago is getting done and the club is not being bent over by outside debt.
 

Shovel in the ground? fairytale






or reality:




Getting it done is what matters.

That is true.

I don't live in spite of Liverpool's owners. They are far from perfect as this ticket debacle showed (I'm sure the supporters groups will keep them honest here and they know what to expect if/when they choose to go down that route again) and their sanctioning of some bizarre spending in transfers. But I find them good businessmen off the field who I think have the knowledge and capability of getting Liverpool up to speed on a business front beyond the cheap cheat proxy of oil stained money. This good article by Tomkins kind of shows their value.

https://tomkinstimes.com/2015/07/fsgs-future-with-liverpool-fc/

The development of their business model makes it far more appealing than seeing the club sold out to an Arab multi billionaire who's money contains the drips of enslaved blood. For me, on a purely ethical front, the idea of Liverpool becoming Man City mark II (and sweet Jesus, there are some fans who actually want that to happen) is unthinkable. I look at Man City and see a club stripped of soul and community replaced by a vulgar artificial standing in world football with a squad of individuals and a set of fans who no longer feel compelled to actually attend their matches.

Of course FSG are still some way from getting the football side of things right. Appointing Jürgen Klopp will go some way to rectifying that. I hope they and Jürgen can work to a solution on getting a good football strategy in place and see if there's viability in this transfer committee way of doing things. With Jürgen on board I really look forward to seeing progress on that front.

The ownership of the club just isn't an issue for me.

That is true.

I don't live in spite of Liverpool's owners. They are far from perfect as this ticket debacle showed (I'm sure the supporters groups will keep them honest here and they know what to expect if/when they choose to go down that route again) and their sanctioning of some bizarre spending in transfers. But I find them good businessmen off the field who I think have the knowledge and capability of getting Liverpool up to speed on a business front beyond the cheap cheat proxy of oil stained money. This good article by Tomkins kind of shows their value.

https://tomkinstimes.com/2015/07/fsgs-future-with-liverpool-fc/

The development of their business model makes it far more appealing than seeing the club sold out to an Arab multi billionaire who's money contains the drips of enslaved blood. For me, on a purely ethical front, the idea of Liverpool becoming Man City mark II (and sweet Jesus, there are some fans who actually want that to happen) is unthinkable. I look at Man City and see a club stripped of soul and community replaced by a vulgar artificial standing in world football with a squad of individuals and a set of fans who no longer feel compelled to actually attend their matches.

Of course FSG are still some way from getting the football side of things right. Appointing Jürgen Klopp will go some way to rectifying that. I hope they and Jürgen can work to a solution on getting a good football strategy in place and see if there's viability in this transfer committee way of doing things. With Jürgen on board I really look forward to seeing progress on that front.

The ownership of the club just isn't an issue for me.

Agree with pretty much all of that. That article is by a subscriber at Tomkins Times not Tomkins himself though. Decent read nonetheless!