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      Luis Suarez (Liverpool -> Barcelona)

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      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Luis Suarez: Liverpool -> Barcelona
      Reply #6233: Oct 22, 2014 12:34:33 am
      Totally agree mate, but Torres was a great striker (for us) too and he scored his goals from a lot less chances than Luis did.

      No doubt that Luis was better but Torres was an exceptional striker too.

      Just a shame he let greed and thinking the grass was greener elsewhere virtually ruin him.
      s@int
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      Re: Luis Suarez: Liverpool -> Barcelona
      Reply #6234: Oct 22, 2014 12:46:00 am
      Just a shame he let greed and thinking the grass was greener elsewhere virtually ruin him.

      To be honest I think the last 6 months he was with us he wasn't just sulking ... but struggling with the loss of a yard of pace from his injury. I think he would have done better if he had stayed (especially partnering Suarez) but I don't think he would have ever been the Torres of before.
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      Re: Luis Suarez: Liverpool -> Barcelona
      Reply #6235: Oct 22, 2014 01:04:14 am
      To be honest I think the last 6 months he was with us he wasn't just sulking ... but struggling with the loss of a yard of pace from his injury. I think he would have done better if he had stayed (especially partnering Suarez) but I don't think he would have ever been the Torres of before.

      It's a shame really because when Suarez arrived, the prospect of having him and Torres in the same team was terrifying, the potential that pairing would have had could have been one of the best around with ease. But then seeing the way Torres failed at Chelsea it became clear IMO that it wouldn't have been anywhere near as effective as SAS; Torres struggles playing alongside someone, he has to be the main man in attack and the way Suarez plays would have meant that wouldn't have been the case.

      Oh well, we got the best out of both players, just wish that we still had Suarez but such is life with the South American players, it seems that no matter how much we want to be the team of their dreams, it just isn't the case and Madrid/Barca will always be too good for them to turn down when the opportunity arises.
      Dadorious
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      Re: Luis Suarez: Liverpool -> Barcelona
      Reply #6236: Oct 22, 2014 01:17:49 am
      Childish, thought you were a bigger person than that.
      And I don't see anywhere that I contested that. In fact I'm pretty sure that my posts have noted that he was one of the main reasons we did as good as we did and one of the main reasons we aren't doing as well right now.
      How do you do contingency planning for losing the 3rd (maybe better) best player in the world? Like I said, unless you buy #1 or #2 then you'll only be downgrading. Not sure how that's our fault that. Kenny and Brendan helped make him what he is today by believing in him, supporting him and then building a team around (for) him. And the lack of loyalty that he shows by first off trying to weasel out of his contract last summer, and then forcing his way out this summer doesn't sit well with me.
      Again, he was unreplaceable. He knew that, and he also knew that we needed him but turned his back and thought of himself only. That's his right to do that, but it's also my right to think he's a turd for doing it.

      The only difference is that Luis is twice the player Torres is. Motives were exactly the same.......both wanted glory for themselves, not for their team.

      As said earlier the moment a "buy out" clause was asked for in the contract and then agreed to the writting was always going to be on the wall. I never said that a player can replace him like for like in my biased rose tinted red glasses he is better than both given what he was able to achieve last year with the players around him in comparison to what Messi and Ronaldo have anything else is a downgrade on the lad. However a system supporting a life without Suarez should have been put in motion and as I mentioned earlier the targets we identified in the summer certainly suggest this was the case, maybe Brendan does have a plan it just needs time to come to fruition and I have said as much and advocated support in the Rodgers thread.

      The loyalty thing does not sit well with me after the Arsenal saga Luis fought tooth (---) and nail for the red shirt he could have downed tools instead he increased his intensity on the field and at training, I am not disputing that Brendan and Kenny made him a better player and I can strongly dispute though  that the team was built around him, we bought some proper plonkers instead of buying players that would compliment Luis it was too little too late when it came to that. His onfield commitment showed plenty of loyalty and desire to get the club to a level where it should be nobody can deny that and this was apparent to the last minute of the final game of the season whether he knew he was off or not (Palace game reaction suggest he did) he gave it 110% that is all you can ask for from a player.

      Don't forget in his first two seasons he finished 6th and 7th all the while the clock keeps ticking for him where he is at a prime age, its not like we were competing at the top year in year out the wheels were set in motion well before last summer for him to engineer a move away. Add to that limited quality additions to the squad with the exception of Coutinho and Sturridge its akin to the rationale some use to defend Torres and say Suarez's departure was more disloyal.
      FL Red
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      Re: Luis Suarez: Liverpool -> Barcelona
      Reply #6237: Oct 22, 2014 01:49:11 am
      I agree with most of that mate.

      I don't agree that Luis was twice the player Torres was (for us) and I believe Torres had better reasons to leave us than Luis did.

      Was going to make that point but seeing as how the whole story (at least according to Torres) hasn't been told, I wasn't sure if he was given promises that weren't kept (likely?)

      As for Luis being twice the player, while their goal hauls were similar, I really believe that Luis changed the game for the opponents in ways that Torres couldn't. Luis could make something out of nothing, Torres had the support of Stevie when Stevie was arguably in his prime at least closer to it.
      s@int
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      Re: Luis Suarez: Liverpool -> Barcelona
      Reply #6238: Oct 22, 2014 08:48:57 am
      Was going to make that point but seeing as how the whole story (at least according to Torres) hasn't been told, I wasn't sure if he was given promises that weren't kept (likely?)

      As for Luis being twice the player, while their goal hauls were similar, I really believe that Luis changed the game for the opponents in ways that Torres couldn't. Luis could make something out of nothing, Torres had the support of Stevie when Stevie was arguably in his prime at least closer to it.

      I think Suarez was better than Torres, but I don't think there was that much between them. Torres scored most of his goals in a team that was quite defensive, especially when compared to Brendan's attacking philosophy.

      At his peak Torres had the best goal return in Europe of a goal every three chances (which is absolutely incredible). I think Suarez at his peak with us was a goal every 8 chances and in his first couple of seasons 1 in 13. (going off memory here so I may be way off)

      Suarez certainly created more chances than Torres did, both for himself and for others, worked harder, was more adaptable, better freekick taker, never injured and imo a better player, but Torres was a great player too.

      If Suarez was a 10 out of 10 player I would say Torres was an 8 out of 10 player. Close but no cigar.

       
      racerx34
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      Re: Luis Suarez: Liverpool -> Barcelona
      Reply #6239: Oct 22, 2014 10:57:31 am
      We built from the front last season.
      Entire way of playing based around Suarez.

      THE most industrious striker on the planet, and outrageously talented.
      Sure who needs to replace that?

      *Enters the bar*

      "Just leave the bottle with me"
      ayrton77
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      Re: Luis Suarez: Liverpool -> Barcelona
      Reply #6240: Oct 22, 2014 11:52:14 am
      We built from the front last season.
      Entire way of playing based around Suarez.

      THE most industrious striker on the planet, and outrageously talented.
      Sure who needs to replace that?

      *Enters the bar*

      "Just leave the bottle with me"

      Just mind-boggling, haven't moaned about it since I didn't really see the point, what's done is done and all that, but...

      We knew he was going to leave, we knew how much money was coming in from his sale, the prize money from finishing second and all the rest of it.

      How the F**k can you let the best player on the planet (last season) leave, and be in a situation where at the start of the very next season you're  facing Real Madrid at Anfield, and having to choose between Borini, Balotelli or Lambert?

      Shambles isn't the word for it, I don't think one even exists. Ineptitude of the highest order, no excuses, the whole club is to blame.
      AlwaysTheKop
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      Re: Luis Suarez: Liverpool -> Barcelona
      Reply #6241: Oct 23, 2014 06:01:51 pm
      Hope he plays Saturday, excited to watch him play again.
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      Re: Luis Suarez: Liverpool -> Barcelona
      Reply #6242: Oct 24, 2014 01:00:59 am
      Hope he fucks Madrid up.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Luis Suarez: Liverpool -> Barcelona
      Reply #6243: Oct 24, 2014 09:14:01 pm
      Rush
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      Re: Luis Suarez: Liverpool -> Barcelona
      Reply #6244: Oct 24, 2014 09:39:48 pm
      Interviewer was a bit of an odd one
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      Re: Luis Suarez: Liverpool -> Barcelona
      Reply #6245: Oct 24, 2014 11:35:46 pm
      Interviewer was a bit of an odd one

      Very much so, not surprised Suarez binned it off.
      stuey
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      Re: Luis Suarez: Liverpool -> Barcelona
      Reply #6246: Oct 25, 2014 08:40:07 am
      Just mind-boggling, haven't moaned about it since I didn't really see the point, what's done is done and all that, but...

      We knew he was going to leave, we knew how much money was coming in from his sale, the prize money from finishing second and all the rest of it.

      How the F**k can you let the best player on the planet (last season) leave, and be in a situation where at the start of the very next season you're  facing Real Madrid at Anfield, and having to choose between Borini, Balotelli or Lambert?

      Shambles isn't the word for it, I don't think one even exists. Ineptitude of the highest order, no excuses, the whole club is to blame.

      The worst end game has been played out.
      Any club with a shred of aspiration to say nothing of credit, would have ensured that measures were in place to fill the entirely predictable void that still presents itself with the exit of Suarez.
      The unwillingness to commit the Suarez fee in acquiring a recognised goal-scorer and more than one have been missed, is nothing but short sighted, faulted economy.
      The manager is not being shackled financially we are informed, yet he does a F***ing good impression of one who is.   
      ayrton77
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      Re: Luis Suarez: Liverpool -> Barcelona
      Reply #6247: Oct 25, 2014 10:24:00 am
      The manager is not being shackled financially we are informed, yet he does a F***ing good impression of one who is.

      Not sure, do believe there was some very poor decision making from top to bottom, though.

      Letting Agger go and spending £20 million on Lovren (couldn't see the priority myself), another large sum on Markovic (unproven, another for the future...), the Origi money...

      I'm all for investing in the future of the club, it's something I've always believed in, but the current season should never be discounted.

      I've read that the club was surprised by the Suarez departure, but I can't believe that for a second. At this level, with the amount of money flying around and the salaries involved, everything should be well-prepared with worst-case scenarios in place.

      For me, enough money was available, but god-knows how, it wasn't spent in the right places and we're paying the price. Like I said, an incompetent, cluster-F**k, that needs sorting out as soon as possible.
      stuey
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      Re: Luis Suarez: Liverpool -> Barcelona
      Reply #6248: Oct 25, 2014 10:53:04 am
      Not sure, do believe there was some very poor decision making from top to bottom, though.

      I'm all for investing in the future of the club, it's something I've always believed in, but the current season should never be discounted.

      I've read that the club was surprised by the Suarez departure, but I can't believe that for a second. At this level, with the amount of money flying around and the salaries involved, everything should be well-prepared with worst-case scenarios in place.

      For me, enough money was available, but god-knows how, it wasn't spent in the right places and we're paying the price. Like I said, an incompetent, cluster-F**k, that needs sorting out as soon as possible.

      You speak of the Suarez replacements dismissively and rightfully so, surely that in itself suggests financial priorities are taking the fore instead of club aspiration.
      The butchering of the squad to accommodate an acceptable wage figure points to yet another false economy.
       BR's appointment appears to have been made in view of his laudable efforts in keeping his former club mid-tableish with limited funds - his sterling work (no pun intended) at LFC might just be an unwelcome surprise for those who budgeted for the mid-tableish order of things. 

      « Last Edit: Oct 25, 2014 11:03:51 am by stuey »
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: Luis Suarez: Liverpool -> Barcelona
      Reply #6249: Oct 25, 2014 12:25:06 pm
      Just a shame he let greed and thinking the grass was greener elsewhere virtually ruin him.

      Ah, but remember,  we don't know the real reason Torres left,  as he said someday the truth will come out  :f_tongueincheek:
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      Re: Luis Suarez: Liverpool -> Barcelona
      Reply #6250: Oct 25, 2014 05:00:02 pm
      Debut goal for Suarez? Hope so.
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      Re: Luis Suarez: Liverpool -> Barcelona
      Reply #6251: Oct 25, 2014 05:04:00 pm
      Well, not scored but he has got a good assist after 3mins.
      what-a-hit-son
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      Re: Luis Suarez: Liverpool -> Barcelona
      Reply #6252: Oct 25, 2014 06:04:14 pm
      Would love him to score here but not sure how much of the 90 he will see before he is brought off. 101 days since he left us and he's only just making his debut.

      Think Real will ruin his party though.
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      Re: Luis Suarez: Liverpool -> Barcelona
      Reply #6253: Oct 25, 2014 06:25:48 pm
      looks a bit heavy to me. I don't think the played the ball to him quick enough
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      Re: Luis Suarez: Liverpool -> Barcelona
      Reply #6254: Oct 25, 2014 06:30:10 pm
      Have to say I'm pleased Madrid are winning this
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Luis Suarez: Liverpool -> Barcelona
      Reply #6255: Oct 25, 2014 06:33:53 pm
      Suarez played as if badly needing it. Strange to start him I thought, would have given him a sub run out personally.

      Watching Mascherano keep Barca in it really does show what we lack in midfield. Madrid could be 5 or 6 up without him cutting out most of their attacks.

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