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      Jordan Henderson (Liverpool -> Al-Ettifaq (5 months) -> Ajax)

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      srslfc
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #3243: Mar 05, 2015 12:32:46 am
      From the small highlights I seen tonight, and on some past performances, he has that leader look about him these days.

      Roddenberry
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #3244: Mar 05, 2015 12:40:42 am

      I didn't think it needed explaining, you said Henderson was making fed eat his words, I thought it would better if he would stop him typing words, i.e. posting on here. :)
      Thaddeus
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #3245: Mar 05, 2015 01:04:42 am
      No one is "bashing" him.  Some just don't rate him.  He's been doing better as of late.  But I still think Can has the potential to be 10x the player Henderson is.  Developing him in midfield should be our priority.

      Cracking goal tonight though from Henderson.

      Oh we get that some don't rate him. Whether those people should committed to a mental institute is the real question.
      what-a-hit-son
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #3246: Mar 05, 2015 01:57:15 am
      You see, this actually says a lot more about you than it does about me or anyone else.  Let me explain why.  You know that I think Henderson is overrated.  I've been saying that for quite some time now.  And yet you think that because he scored a worldie, that somehow that would change my mind about an opinion formed of watching every single game he's ever played in for us.  Because apparently YOU believe that if YOU didn't rate a player, then if you saw that player score a screamer, you would say "oh my god, I've been totally wrong for the last few years, he just erased years of awful performances in one second."  This is the Sky generation, supporters whose opinions change based on seeing a fantastic goal.

      FLRed has it 110% right here.  That game against City was absolutely NOT one of Henderson's best performances.  In fact if you take away the stunning goal he scored, which was an absolute screamer, he really did very little.  I watched the game twice and counted 11 times when he gave the ball away in stupid places, countless sideways and backwards passes it.  Very anonymous.

      In fact we had this conversation not too long ago regarding Stevie.  Away at Leicester Stevie had a terrible game but he scored a really important goal and everyone suddenly said "oh what a great game he had!"  So the obvious question is: if you have a poor or anonymous game, but you score a goal, does it mean you had a good game?  the opinion seemed to be split. 

      but as FL Red said, that game against City was far from a top Henderson performance.  Joe Allen was MUCH more influential in that performance, he was everywhere, making really incisive passes, getting stuck in etc.  Henderson was floating around anonymously for most of the game.  Don't even get me started on the Silva goal, watch it again here:

      https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4yM5lZGIa9yWFdFNjZYLVhTdlk/view

      --Henderson just runs around aimlessly in midfield, watching Silva but not putting in a tackle when he gets the chance, then watching Aguero and running right by him when he plays the pass.  You can see Skrtel dropping off early in the move, pointing at Jordan to tell him to occupy the space that Skrtel inevitably leaves open when he tracks Dzeko.  Does Henderson drop in to cover?  No.  He just walks around.  Look that goal alone was by no means only Henderson's fault.  But it just shows that in a crucial moment he dropped the ball along with everyone else.

      So yea.  That was not a top Henderson performance.  If you want to see a really incredible Henderson performance, go back and watch that 5-0 thumping we gave to Spurs at White Hart Lane in December of 2013.  That was the best game he has ever played in a Liverpool shirt, hands down.  He scored, but it really wasn't about that.  He was spraying passes left and right, dropping balls on a sixpence for Sterling, putting tackles in left and right, he really owned and ran that game.  and that was the catalyst for his incredible form on the second half of last season.  His performance against City didn't even come close.  But of course he scored a screamer so the Sky generation says "wow what a performance."  Joe Allen was much more imposing in that game than Henderson, and neither of them had nearly the influence of Coutinho. 

      So, as I said, my opinions about players are not formed based on one moment, or one game.  They are formed over a long period of time.  Henderson scored an absolute screamer against City.  But honestly, I don't care how much he scores or doesn't score.  That's not his job.  What his job is, is to impose himself on games and not go missing, to be class game in and game out, and that is something that he doesn't do.  He was absolutely terrible for his first two and a half seasons, then last season when Stevie got injured in December, something went off in him and he was unplayable for the second half of last season.  This season he's been hit and miss. 

      That goal doesn't change anything; in fact he scored an even BETTER goal his first ever game at Anfield in his first season.  And then he went on to be wretched for 2 straight years.  So clearly scoring a worldie doesn't have an affect on future performance.  As I have said again and again, Ryan Babel scored a bunch of worldies, but he was generally underwhelming.  And not good enough.  I mean just thinking off the top of my head, I can think of three of our former players who scored absolute screamers this season---Downing, Carroll, and Jonjo Shelvey.  When you saw those goals on MOTD, did you say "oh my god, we were so wrong to let go of Shelvey!" etc?  of course not!  because you knew that his performance levels were not consistently that high.  I mean there are countless amazing goals scored by all sorts of players in the league.  That is NOT a reason to rate them (or not rate them) unless they are doing it literally game in and game out.  When you look back on Suarez's career with us, do you say "he was amazing because he scored that cracker against Stoke in the League Cup in 2011"?  no!  You say that Suarez was brilliant, game in and game out, for literally every game he ever played for us.  THAT is what it is about.

      It was an absolutely incredible goal.  But it doesn't really change anything in the way I see Henderson.  I'm happy to change my mind about that though; take Mignolet for example.  He was absolutely wretched for almost a year on the trot.  Then he started to pick up his game when he came back from being dropped, and now, consistently, he's been a top class keeper.  Not because he had one good game.  But because he had a long line of games in a row while being solid.  Forget about what I think, you only have to go browse a few pages back in his own thread to see the countless posts of people saying Henderson's been up and down this season (and that's being kind).

      So.  I have my opinion about Henderson.  I think he is overrated.  I don't think by any means he is utter rubbish.  I just think he's overrated and not good enough to be captaining our club, which means he will be undroppable from midfield.  It has nothing to do with how many screamers he scores or doesn't score.  It has to do with his play as a midfielder in bossing the game.

      And the way I see it, I've seen more potential from Emre Can in about 90 total minutes of playing in midfield than I ever have from Henderson.  Can's first though is always to go forward, none of these immediate one touch sideways and backwards passes.  He consistently gets himself out of tricky situations, he puts in a good tackle, and most importantly, he is commanding and looks like he owns the game.  Henderson doesn't.  Henderson's top trait is his relentless work effort.  there's no denying that.  But consistent, top class, not just a screamer every now and then a la Carroll or Downing, but game in and game out top class performances---that's way he lacks.  And I think Can offers that.

      But, we'll see what happens. 





      So what do you think of Hendo? Rate him?
      Del Boca Vista
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #3247: Mar 05, 2015 02:55:52 am
      do you really think that left footed curler a few years back was better than either of the goals he scored in the last two games ?
      king kenny
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #3248: Mar 05, 2015 03:13:45 am
      No one is "bashing" him.  Some just don't rate him.  He's been doing better as of late.  But I still think Can has the potential to be 10x the player Henderson is. 




      Can has potential to be a very very good player.  But 10 x better than Henderson!   :lmao:  And you say your not bashing him!   :lmao:   10 X Henderson doesn't exist! 

      federer
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #3249: Mar 05, 2015 03:16:31 am
      do you really think that left footed curler a few years back was better than either of the goals he scored in the last two games ?

      Definitely.  I don't remember who it was against---Blackburn or Bolton I think.  But I think it was much better.  Especially considering the x-factors around the goal, i.e., everyone had been asking all summer why we spent so much money on this Henderson kid from Sunderland etc.  He had a lot more to prove back then.  That was I think his best goal for us.
      StevieGTheCaptain8
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #3250: Mar 05, 2015 07:06:32 am
      Definitely.  I don't remember who it was against---Blackburn or Bolton I think.  But I think it was much better.  Especially considering the x-factors around the goal, i.e., everyone had been asking all summer why we spent so much money on this Henderson kid from Sunderland etc.  He had a lot more to prove back then.  That was I think his best goal for us.

      I think you are talking about this, brilliant but not even better than the last two.
      P.S. What a ball from that number 7.. :D
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayFqV1DAI-M#
      ajayi82
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #3251: Mar 05, 2015 07:54:00 am
      get the printing of Henderson No8 ready for next season
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #3252: Mar 05, 2015 10:05:50 am
      Tbh Kenny did nothing but harm him by playing him out of position most of the time.
      I see where you're coming from Mags but I have a different take on that.

      We have to remember that, Jordan was only 19 [soon to turn 20], when he was bought. He was bought because he was a prodigious talent and bought with one eye on the future.

      That prodigious talent meant that he was able to play, in more than one position, at a high level - a bit like a young Stevie, if we remember back. It was Jordan's versatility, again like Gerrard's, which meant he could be moved out of his more natural position and still play whilst learning the game. Add to that the fact that, at that time: Jordan was nowhere nearly ready to displace Stevie [one of the World's best] in that role.

      Instead he was blooded, given an appreciation of more than one role and given plenty of game time simply because he was one for the future. To that end; playing him out of position, rather than "harm" him, brought what was only a kid on... in my opinion obviously.

      I vaguely remember (way back) remarking something along the lines that; I believe that Jordan was bought to eventually fill the Ste Gerrard role... I'll see if I can hoke it out later.

      What made me think that wasn't down to any genius or eye for a player on my part but the fact that footballing 'men' [with much more nous than me] were convinced the kid was a good 'un. And... the fact that no less a light than Kenny was more than happy to keep picking him; keep giving him experience, (out of his more natural role), so that his eventual transition would be gradual and staggered.

      A method which we have since seen Brendan also apply - not only with Jordan but with other young players too. Are Can, Ibe and Markovic (for example) playing in their more natural roles right now? Nah Mags but they are being given valuable experience and game time in preparation for when the time is right.  ;)

      Anyhows... Jordan Henderson; another goal, another assist, another tireless, quality performance from a top player in a winning team AND he's a Red. Brilliant; ain't it?  ;D
      Hollywood Balls
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #3253: Mar 05, 2015 11:27:51 am
      No one is "bashing" him.  Some just don't rate him.  He's been doing better as of late.  But I still think Can has the potential to be 10x the player Henderson is.  Developing him in midfield should be our priority.

      Cracking goal tonight though from Henderson.

      Ah so you've shifted the goalposts from saying he wasn't of Liverpool standards because no-one wanted to buy him to (now) saying Can has the potential to be a better player.

      Okie doke bud  xxxxx:action-smiley-065:
      Hollywood Balls
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #3254: Mar 05, 2015 11:29:09 am
      Tbh Kenny did nothing but harm him by playing him out of position most of the time.

      Don't think you'd be able to name may CMs better in the Prem than him, although I'm sure some will try.

      This is correct. Luckily Brendan managed to salvage this transfer from that disastrous window.
      bazspeedman
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #3255: Mar 05, 2015 11:43:12 am
      I think you are talking about this, brilliant but not even better than the last two.
      P.S. What a ball from that number 7.. :D
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayFqV1DAI-M#

      There is no way that strike betters his last two.

      Grasping at straws comes to mind.
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #3256: Mar 05, 2015 12:00:15 pm
      I vaguely remember (way back) remarking something along the lines that; I believe that Jordan was bought to eventually fill the Ste Gerrard role... I'll see if I can hoke it out later.
      Found that post Mags...  :gt-happyup:

      I just feel he's got something Scotty and daft as this may make me sound; I can see him grow into a Gerrard type player - in fact, I believe he's been bought with that role in mind. Jordan has a way to go yet but I honestly believe he'll be a star.


      And... when I was looking, I found this along with it:

      Jordan: I'm not just a middle man

      Jordan Henderson is ready to show his versatility in order to become a regular on Kenny Dalglish's teamsheet.

      The 20-year-old, who signed a long-term deal at Anfield last week, is best known as a central midfielder - but he is just as adept at operating on the right.

      And after talks with Dalglish prior to his transfer from Sunderland, Henderson knows he may have to be adaptable.


      "I spoke to the manager and he said I can play in the team in a few positions," he told reporters covering the European U21 Championships in Denmark.

      "I'm not bothered, I want to make sure I'm in the starting 11 and play regular football. If I could choose I would play centre midfield... But I like playing anywhere, and I just want to start."

      "Liverpool is a massive club, with a great manager and great players, and obviously I felt as though I could improve there and learn a lot.

      "Of course, there will be competition at any big club, but I have to work extremely hard and do everything I can to make sure I start in the team. If I train well and work hard, I'll get my chance and take it.

      Henderson's recruitment was welcomed at the weekend by Steven Gerrard.

      The two have already played together in an England friendly against France last year and Henderson was grateful for the skipper's kind words.

      "It's a massive compliment as he's one of the best players in the world, and hopefully I can go there and learn a lot from him," he said.

      Another man Henderson cannot wait to work alongside is Dalglish.

      "It's unbelievable to be honest, you just see the job he's done so far, in a short space of time, and hopefully this season can be even better," said the midfield man.

      "I've spoken to the gaffer and it really excites me - everything is really positive. He's a fair, honest person and I'm looking forward to working with him."

      http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/jordan-i-m-not-just-a-middle-man

      It seems that Jordan was well aware of what was expected and that, through time he'd get his chance in his preferred role - just as he was well aware that he wasn't signed to automatically play in the place of the man, who he called; "one of the best players in the world" [Steven Gerrard].

      Let's be honest here: that transition, from versatile player to central-midfield starter, (started by Kenny and eventually continued by Brendan) has been gradual, calculated and has only fully kicked in this season.

      They say patience is a virtue - that patience, after a sticky start (where he could have easily been swapped to Fulham), along with hard work, is reaping rewards.

      Well in Jordan.  :clap:
      « Last Edit: Mar 05, 2015 12:18:13 pm by bad boy bubby »
      srslfc
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #3257: Mar 05, 2015 12:16:22 pm
      I think Kenny playing him wide actually helped his career here and developed his game rather than hold him back.

      bad boy bubby
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #3258: Mar 05, 2015 12:21:10 pm
      I think Kenny playing him wide actually helped his career here and developed his game rather than hold him back.
      Indeed Si: as did Brendan playing him - in a front three, wide right and right back (at different times), before central midfield, of course.  ;)
      bazspeedman
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #3259: Mar 05, 2015 12:42:26 pm
      Imagine if we had sold Jordan to Fulham that time and replaced him with Diame?

      Yikes.
      ajayi82
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #3260: Mar 05, 2015 12:44:24 pm
      what makes him so good is listed below but fans of other clubs dont see it and say we are deluded when we paid 16mil for him because he dont score the goals like AAron Ramsey. Where has Ramsey gone this season???? injured?? lost confidence or now they have other top players he's fizzled out. Henderson has always been a starter for our team and though until recently he's not been banging in top class goals he's always been a grafter and creator of goals. Now he's adding the odd goal to his game he will hopefully make that next step to be a reccognised top Midfielder across Europe.
      made up for him and PS love the nivea advert his face in that is pricesless
      shabbadoo
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #3261: Mar 05, 2015 12:50:10 pm
      If we sold Henderson to Fulham like some wanted I have no doubt that the Scum would have gone back in for him.
      Diego LFC
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #3262: Mar 05, 2015 12:59:10 pm
      As I posted in the game thread:

      I'm not even watching the game but I just saw Hendo scored one and assisted the other. And we are forced to read (I guess it's better than being blind) that Delph is just as good, Cabella is a better player, Sissoko is so much better and costed so much less! Oh dear. Henderson is boss. All you critics out there please just accept a fact like I did.
      srslfc
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #3263: Mar 05, 2015 01:04:44 pm
      Indeed Si: as did Brendan playing him - in a front three, wide right and right back (at different times), before central midfield, of course.  ;)


      Yep.

      He even had a handful of games playing a strange kind of wide left role that he done well with under Brendan.

      Class footballer.
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #3264: Mar 05, 2015 01:16:35 pm
      He even had a handful of games playing a strange kind of wide left role that he done well with under Brendan.
      All part of his [well rounded] development mate.

      Sometimes you've just got to give credit to and accept that there are people in the world of football that know and see much more than ordinary folk like me and you. Sometimes you have to just trust those people's judgement - in Jordan's case, (in my opinion anyhow) both Kenny and Brendan knew what they were doing when they played him "out of position".

      They knew his time would come and it has. Ain't it great?  :nod:
      Diego LFC
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      Re: Jordan Henderson Player Thread
      Reply #3265: Mar 05, 2015 05:36:27 pm
      He even had a handful of games playing a strange kind of wide left role that he done well with under Brendan.

      I actually thought he did better on the left than on the right on most occasions. Obviously not so much in terms of attacking contribution but I remember him tracking back and doing a lot of the dirty work there. Not a huge fan of him on the right although his former manager (I think it was Steve Bruce) said he thought Hendo was better there.

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