Safe Standing: An Open Meeting

Safe Standing: An Open Meeting


Thursday 23rd June, 2011

Kick off 6.30pm (for 7pm start).

The Sandon,
Oakfield House,
166 - 182 Oakfield Road,
Anfield, Liverpool.


In recent months the Football Supporters’ Federation has re-launched its Safe Standing Campaign and, after much thought and consideration, will hold an open meeting in Liverpool on Thursday 23rd June.

The open meeting will see the panel take questions from the floor, explain precisely what we’re campaigning for, and address the concerns of those who have reservations about our proposals. The panel includes:

Malcolm Clarke - Chair of the FSF.
Tony Evans (Event Chair) - Sports Editor at the Times.
Professor Steve Frosdick - Birmingham City University and founder member of the UK Football Safety Officers’ Association.
Paul Jones - season ticket holder on the Kop.

Those attending will also have the opportunity to view a life-size model rail seat area, built to Green Guide safety specifications. The FSF believes that football clubs in the top two tiers should have the option to install rail seating in their ground, if they so wish. The rail seat model has already made its first public appearance at Wolves’ Molineux and will be visiting a variety of other clubs over the coming weeks and months as part of the Safe Standing Roadshow.

Amanda Jacks of the FSF said: “We do not underestimate the sensitivities on Merseyside and have nothing but respect and compassion for those who lost loved ones at Hillsborough. We know that some minds can never be changed but we hope to offer reassurance to those who believe standing areas are inherently unsafe. The FSF would never back anything which puts fans at risk and we’d encourage people to come along and listen to what we have to say.”

This event is free but registration is required: register@fsf.org.uk

I'm guessing that these rail seats are far safer than fans standing in front of seats at away games and in European matches in the Kop.

Just a thought.

The Hillsborough groups will never tolerate standing, and as fellow fans we do have some obligation to stand by their wishes.  Despite the fact that standing was not the cause of the Hillsborough disaster.  Overcrowding caused by the police and fencing caused by the authorities and Government policy were the causes.

I'm in favour of safe standing at football but recognise the sensitive nature of the issue.

The only picture I can find of what it'd be like.

I'm in favour of safe standing at football but recognise the sensitive nature of the issue.

I am with you on this one.

Primarily do to the shitty lack of legroom in most grounds

^ As long as you're not stood in front of me!

I remember the Steaua Bucharest game at home last season. The whole of the Kop were stood up for the entire 90 minutes. I doubt very much that we would OK it at Anfield though.

The only picture I can find of what it'd be like.

Very interesting picture. Something i have not seen before. I understand the sensitivity towards standing. Where is this? Germany?

Very interesting picture. Something I have not seen before. I understand the sensitivity towards standing. Where is this? Germany?

I believe so. Germany has had safe standing for a while now, and it's worked very well. It seems to be perfectly safe and also allows for cheaper tickets!

Here's another image.

I'm in favour of safe standing at football but recognise the sensitive nature of the issue.

Think this sums up my view on it too.

I never had a problem standing and I am going back to the early 70's on the Kop. But maybe it was a case of there by the grace of God go I.It wasnt just standing that caused problems it was general policing and attitudes .People do stand now in the Kop its very hard not to. Not standing has sanitized the atmosphere somewhat and people who would not have gone into the Kop previously now do so because of its safety.
How you ever seperate standing and Hilsborough is something I am not in a position to do and I dont have they answer.
I would love to stand on the KOP again swaying and singing but could you imagine what would happen if one single person was injured.
Its sad but true to say we cant go back to the 60's and 70's and rather than look at the standing issue we need to look at the way ticket allocation is made.
For me the atmosphere has been in decline since the ground became all ticket.

I'm in favour of safe standing at football but recognise the sensitive nature of the issue.

This!

Anyone who stands at games cannot object to the safe standing areas.....If you are a Liverpool fan sitting at away games just isn't an option in my experience,other wise you'll never see the game,the same can be said at Anfield in the Kop end.

We are either with the Justice campaign or we're are not,you can't have it both ways..

I believe so. Germany has had safe standing for a while now, and it's worked very well. It seems to be perfectly safe and also allows for cheaper tickets!

Here's another image.



Think this sums up my view on it too.

I'm sorry but i don't think the club will restructure it's pricing policy whether sitting or standing,this isn't Germany.

I take it the safe standing campaign are coming to Liverpool to appease the locals,get the Scousers on board and it's all systems go...Let the Justice campaign have the last say....

Anyone who stands at games cannot object to the safe standing areas.....If you are a Liverpool fan sitting at away games just isn't an option in my experience,other wise you'll never see the game,the same can be said at Anfield in the Kop end.

We are either with the Justice campaign or we're are not,you can't have it both ways..
I'm sorry but I don't think the club will restructure it's pricing policy whether sitting or standing,this isn't Germany.

I take it the safe standing campaign are coming to Liverpool to appease the locals,get the Scousers on board and it's all systems go...Let the Justice campaign have the last say....

I would definitely be up for safe standing but each time i think about it i feel a sense of guilt. Making these areas all ticket and well policed would help. However, I definitely would leave it to the people who are involved in campaigns etc. Obviously a sensitive subject.

Anyone who stands at games cannot object to the safe standing areas.....If you are a Liverpool fan sitting at away games just isn't an option in my experience,other wise you'll never see the game,the same can be said at Anfield in the Kop end.

We are either with the Justice campaign or we're are not,you can't have it both ways..

The Kop sits for 90% of matches at Anfield.

And yes, you can have it both ways. What a horrific thing to say that because we support safe standing we don't want justice. What's wrong with you?

The Kop sits for 90% of matches at Anfield.

And yes, you can have it both ways. What a horrific thing to say that because we support safe standing we don't want justice. What's wrong with you?

No the Kop doesn't sit for 90% of games,that's why i don't go there any more because people stand up and i prefer to sit...You're a Liverpool fan? You support the justice campaign? then that means No to standing.....Just ask them.

Horrific thing to say?.....You really need to adjust your threshold on what you find horrific...

The problem with Anfield is that it's just not that comfortable to sit down,most parts are too cramped and narrow....Bolton Wanderers have brilliant seating,just a pity no one in the away end uses it...there is absolutely no way the Club will give in to this,so i think you better choose another team....maybe one up the east lancs road who mock that we apparently have stopped them from standing....and are quick to point out the date when this happened.

Our manager doesn't want standing areas maybe you should e-mail him and ask his opinion.....

In my experience whenever I have been in The Kop (5 times) I stood in 4 of them. The 4 I went to and stood up were all Champions League games, the one where we sat was Newcastle in the league.

In my experience whenever I have been in The Kop (5 times) I stood in 4 of them. The 4 I went to and stood up were all Champions League games, the one where we sat was Newcastle in the league.

This is true of course....People tend to stand more for European games..But just cast your eye's right in my case and you can see huge swaths of Reds all standing at most games,though further up the stand...

Maybe the club could ballot the fans? i'd vote no...

I'd vote no because if the new stands that are to be put in are like the Arsenals stadium ...then the view will be great there's lot's of space front and back and the seats comfortable...

What a horrific thing to say that because we support safe standing we don't want justice. What's wrong with you?

Agree.

Suggesting that people who can see the logic behind safe standing somehow don't want justice from the authorities who caused the deaths of 96 people.

One of the most ridiculous statements I've read.

I agree with the above sentiments in being in favour of safe standing. At the same time I am fully aware of the sensitivity regarding the situation. I fully respect those who object any form of standing though. Well said JD.

The biggest and ultimate problem was the fencing, that has gone and I see no problem with safe-standing. I think JD got it spot on.

No the Kop doesn't sit for 90% of games

Apart from the back 10 rows, yes it does. Every game barring the Scum and Bitters.

If you claim to not sit in The Kop any more, how do you know?

I am increasingly pissed off at standing getting blamed for Hillsborough, as this let's the authorities of the hook, standing was a good scapegoat after the initial attempts blaming fans were shown to be vicious lies.

I am increasingly pissed off at standing getting blamed for Hillsborough, as this let's the authorities of the hook, standing was a good scapegoat after the initial attempts blaming fans were shown to be vicious lies.

One thing to blame, Police! Like you, Im getting pissed off at other 'suggestions'.

Agree.

Suggesting that people who can see the logic behind safe standing somehow don't want justice from the authorities who caused the deaths of 96 people.

One of the most ridiculous statements I've read.

Ok...just take it out of my insensitive hands and place your feelings with the justice campaign see how they feel....if they agree with you,then i will apologise for any horror i have inflicted on your sensitive soul..

I'm glad you find such ridicule in my insignificant statement..... You must have missed at the Iraq war dossier's or William Hague's excuses for attacking Libya,just two of about a billion ridiculous statements..far more significant than mine...don't you think!( but i feel you probably will have changed your mind now as this has now just become the most ridiculous statement you've ever read)

Our own manager doesn't want standing,he's on record as saying so....as i've mentioned earlier in this topic,perhaps you could try and voice your opinion to him just to see how he feels and if he has changed his mind....You wouldn't dare.

The biggest and ultimate problem was the fencing, that has gone and I see no problem with safe-standing.

I'm glad that you said have this...as it's true,the fencing was the problem,no fencing no deaths....My reasoning for my opinion is that the families of the 96 do not want standing back if they have softened their stance then i am unaware of it and if they have,i will apologise for any statement i have made on here contrary to that belief..

Apart from the back 10 rows, yes it does. Every game barring the Scum and Bitters.

If you claim to not sit in The Kop any more, how do you know?

I know because i sit in the main stand and i can quite clearly see all of the Kop end and i quite clearly see thousands of people standing game in game out and it is far more than 10 rows back as you will well know...

TonyEvans Times

One of great lies about Hillsborough is standing caused it. Criminally inept police and a ground the authorities knew to be unsafe caused it.

Such a sensitive issue to discuss, Hillsborough being the reason that seating came into being due to the tragic loss of lives on that fateful day when we lost 96 brothers and sisters. The reasons for the introduction of all seater stadiums, as outlined in the Taylor report, were to prevent a tragedy like this ever happening again. I believe the report was basically a form of covering up the blatant disregard of the Police that day for football supporters. Whilst i admit that the report predominantly set out to make grounds safer for football fans, there is no doubt that it totally avoided the main reason for the tragedy, the ineptitude of the Police force.

I was brought up with terracing as a child, i stood on the Kop with my uncle on many occasions and i remember those games more than i remember the games where i've been seated. That may sound like a silly comment to make but nobody can doubt the difference in atmosphere between a seated crowd and a standing crowd.

This new safe standing system looks good to me, the abolishment of fencing has alleviated the possibility of crush injuries and i also feel that crowd control measures are far more advanced than they used to be. I am a supporter of the Hillsborough Justice Campaign and i am fully aware of how sensitive a situation this is. In a strange kind of way i feel guilty for wanting this safe standing, i am torn between a rock and a hard place.

When i start taking my boys to Anfield in the near future i would love for them to stand next to me on the Kop, but not at the expense of the memories of the ninety six.

Safe standing:

Advantages -
Bringing back the old atmosphere.

That is the only advantage I can honestly think of and believe there are more disadvantages including, children won't be able to see over the bars, why take an unnecessary risk when the all seater stadiums have ensured maximum safety, and also it's a sensitive issue because of Hillsborough.

I'm happy with the current seats, why change it ... there's no point. There is nothing wrong at all with seated stadiums, no health risks, maximum safety, I really can't see it happening in the Premier League.

I'm happy with the current seats, why change it ... there's no point. There is nothing wrong at all with seated stadiums, no health risks, maximum safety, I really can't see it happening in the Premier League.

I reckon about 99% of people will disagree with you on here mate.

I HATE sitting down to watch a match, if i wanted to sit i'd of stayed at home.

coming to Anfield to sit down, take pictures, eat hot dogs and M&M's, complain when people stand up to celebrate. 

It winds me up.

You are correct though, never in a million years will it be brought back, not with the HIGH-VIS patrol everywhere and anywhere these days

Simply doing great!

Good for you 

I'm happy with the current seats, why change it ... there's no point. There is nothing wrong at all with seated stadiums, no health risks, maximum safety, I really can't see it happening in the Premier League.

So you've never trapped a leg or seen a kid trap his leg in one of those seats. Plus you've never seen fans nearly falling over the seats when celebrating.

maximum safety it isn't!

The majority stand on the Kop most games anyway, not much choice as with the lack of legroom you just end up with squashed nuts anyway 

TonyEvans Times

One of great lies about Hillsborough is standing caused it. Criminally inept police and a ground the authorities knew to be unsafe caused it.

This sums it up perfectly for me.Never had any problems standing but find the seats uncomfortable for anyone over 5'4".no leg room at all.

The thing is though, if Safe Standing was to be introduced then it wouldn't be all of the ground that was allocated for standing. Imagine if say the Kop was made all Safe Standing and maybe the Anfield Road upper was made Safe Standing, that would leave plenty seats in the Main Stand, Centenary Stand and the Anfield Road lower for the people who want to sit at the games. If you ask me there's no reason why football should completely ignore the Safe Standing idea.

The thing is though, if Safe Standing was to be introduced then it wouldn't be all of the ground that was allocated for standing. Imagine if say the Kop was made all Safe Standing and maybe the Anfield Road upper was made Safe Standing, that would leave plenty seats in the Main Stand, Centenary Stand and the Anfield Road lower for the people who want to sit at the games. If you ask me there's no reason why football should completely ignore the Safe Standing idea.

If it were up to me, I'd make the Kop, Lower Annie and the Paddock safe standing.

Don't see a problem with "safe" standing myself.

It's got to be more safe than standing up in the current arrangement. As far as I'm concerned as long as everyone has their own equivalent of a seat, there will be no problems and no undermining of anything involved with Hillsborough. I actually think standing on the Kop will be safer than sitting and certainly more comfortable.

hey lads,
there are a few rumours about that prem football grounds may move towards having areas where fans can stand to watch the game.
if this was to be put into place at anfield do you think it would be a good thing?

post your opinions!

hey lads,
there are a few rumours about that prem football grounds may move towards having areas where fans can stand to watch the game.
if this was to be put into place at anfield do you think it would be a good thing?

post your opinions!

Won't happen, then they wouldn't be able to charge what the F**k they like for tickets.

Seeing as it's your first post, what's your opinion?

Won't happen, then they wouldn't be able to charge what the F**k they like for tickets.

Seeing as it's your first post, what's your opinion?

And possibly his motive as well?

And possibly his motive as well?

Just reads like someone who wants to right a blog but got no ideas of his own!!

Wonder if he ever stood on the old kop?

I never experienced any problems when standing on the kop as a youngster when it was holding in excess of 20,000. It's not the standing that's the problem, but the way we were treated like animals in pens.
 The french La Liga  had a system years ago, where the bottom of the standing terrace was at the same level as the pitch. If there was an incident that needed a quick evacuation,  what was the fencing, was electronically opened, pitchwards, in 10ft sections, the full width of the terrace, and everyone just calmly walked out onto the pitch.
 This was used at some French grounds as long ago as 1990