Pako Ayesteran off

Didn't we play Derby after Paco left?

I don't think Ayesteran had that much influence on tactics - there was certainly nothing wrong with the reds fitness after they managed to pull their fingers out from the 85th minute onwards.

They were lazy against Marseille and didn't put the effort in.

I am told that Pako was the good cop. Close to the players at Melwood. Feeding Rafa nuggets of information back in Rafa's office - as Rafa is a distant, cold, sober man-manager that has ZERO time for personal issues

I've been thinking that Pako leaving has been down to our poor form for a while now, he was always close with the players as Alonso has stated before, but Rafa is distant and only sees the players as employees basically an just keeps a working relationship with them and has no time for there personal problems. And now Pako's gone whose taken up his role? Rafa needs to swallow his pride and bring him back into the fold.

What a mine of personal insider information we same to have suddenly unearthed here...I am told.

Or is it just gossip?

It's just another theory and an attempt to try and explain our poor performances in the absence of knowledge, and for some to use them as an excuse to put forward personal beliefs and agendas. You don't like rotation, so you blame rotation. You don't like Rafa so you blame Rafa. Pako left, so that must be it. Alonso hasn't been playing recently, maybe that's got something to do with it...maybe the invisible man is an Everton supporter and he's been interfering with play??? etc, ad nauseum.

Maybe they are all coming together - maybe it is something else. We don't know, and in the absence of any concrete information, other than what we see with our own eyes, which is a bunch of footballers under-performing, you have to stop the knee-jerk reactionary stuff and accept that we don't know what is wrong; but we can say to the players and the manager, "Look, these performances have been poor and a couple of the results as a consequence have been way short of what we are capable of and you need to sort it out, whatever the problem is."

I admit I was seething after last nights game, I never leave a match early but jesus I was tempted last night. it was a disgrace of a performance totally inept for 80 mins and very difficult to watch. its the nature of the performance that's angered people here and we all say ill informed things when angry don't we.
today I understand that the world hasn't ended we are only 3 points off the pace with porto & marseille playing each other next. anything is possible. just remember our poor displays in the '05 group stage we all remember what followed. I think as fans we've been spoiled by our recent european record haven't  we.
about paco I do think his leaving has affected the squad in some way its affected their cohesion somehow. bring back gary macca as 1st team coach or even assistant manager, we need his baldy head, his baldy head !!!.
finally a shout out to the stewards and fans in the annie road. I sat there for the first time(season ticket is for centenery upper) and I thought they put the kop to shame,by singing much more it seemed as did the marseille fans. what happened to the 1892 'singing section' last night?

Sometimes we forget that these lads are PROFESSIONALS... they get paid ludicrous amounts of money to do what they do. A change in management or the departure of a star player may be emotional or sad, but at the end of the day, they've gotta get on with their jobs. Sure, they're not robots but come now, this is what they do for a living. So, Pako's departure? Not really a factor in
our poor display...   

90% of football is mental....10% is skill

90% of football is mental....10% is skill

From now on, you are Scouser 90

i think we are gona get things into perspective this week, we want the league and everything else is a bonus. the lads arnt babies(well most of em) and they know what theyre JOBS are and what they need to do. after a sh*te week its times like these we come out swinging.

do you think we'd be doing better than chelsea if we'd lost Rafa?

From now on, you are Scouser 90

hahaha, thanks jammydodger....you can be jammydodger10

do you think we'd be doing better than chelsea if we'd lost Rafa?

Interesting perspective: it would depend on the circumstances and who came in and how quickly, but I see the point you are making about suddenly losing the manager. The players essentially have to adapt to the change, move on, or be moved on.

hahaha, thanks jammydodger....you can be jammydodger10

We came in packs, you know.

hahaha....damn straight...

yeh dunno why i thought of that but it does make you think doesnt it. i wish we had players like brian cloughie, johnston and charlton around nowadays. im only 23 but i respect my elders alot, kind of wish i grew up in the era of being able to get up as if nothing happened after youd been smacked over the back with a chair and felt nothing of it, they dont make em like they used to. even though it was a completely different game back then, hearing of cloughie smacking in over a couple of hundred goals compared to 20 makes me imagine what a player like that could do now aye?

I sat there for the first time(season ticket is for centenery upper) and I thought they put the kop to shame,by singing much more it seemed as did the marseille fans. what happened to the 1892 'singing section' last night?

Exactly. We are part of European nights and not only were the players a disgrace on Wed... we were too!

On Sunday me and my son will be singing our hearts from the main stand, intimidating Spurs, I hope every single fan attending on Sunday does the same.

Time to be heard AND seen.

We will walk away with 3 points if we find our voices again... and few of our best players find their heads again!

Im not sure if it is yet i think we will have too wait and see what happens in our next few games is it just a drop in form and performance or has the training changed since Pako has left us.

Ive read today that Barca are intrested in the services of Pako does this show the qualitys Pako brought to us?
Only if Rafa wasnt so stubborn and made up with him.

Lets show against Spurs that his departure is not affecting us

Rick Parry needs to move fast to get Pako and Rafa working together again... and I mean fast (as in during this international break).

He has obviously affected the mood and morale in the camp... he was the closest senior figure to the players at Melwood...

No brainer... lets have him back ...and Pronto!!

Pako's departure definitely has an effect on the players, we can all see that on the faces of the players, looks worrying and no passion at all. I think Pako's departure is a forgone conclusion. As much as we would like Rafa and Pako to make -up, i'm afraid it won't happen as the damage is beyond repair. We need to look forward and get someone in the mould of Pako and perhaps to also mould this candidate to replace Rafa eventually.

Pako's departure definitely has an effect on the players, we can all see that on the faces of the players, looks worrying and no passion at all. I think Pako's departure is a forgone conclusion. As much as we would like Rafa and Pako to make -up, I'm afraid it won't happen as the damage is beyond repair. We need to look forward and get someone in the mould of Pako and perhaps to also mould this candidate to replace Rafa eventually.

Gary Mac?

He is willing to come... but would Rafa feel comfortable with him...?

Taken from another thread about Pako :

My drum? You obviously don't speak to many Liverpool supporters then?

Oh and yesterday's phone in on LFC TV was all about it...

Oh...and Rafa answered specific press conference questions on it on Friday...

So my drum must be pretty popular fella...

I'm not going to argue with you mate... which seems to me want you want most from your post. Bye.

http://www.sportingo.com/football/just_how_much_liverpool_rafa/1001,5273

A fan generated experience? Where's your facts? You don't answer the question. How do you know what happened between Rafa and Pako? Rafa answered questions put; he didn't make a statement, and he refutes the extent of any supposed impact. You are the dodger. You are the one hijacking threads with your drum. Let's see how you deal with the argument in the right thread...

...Which is here. Donrafael has been banging on in other threads, but not this one it seems, about how Rafa is too proud to take Pako back; that he should offer the hand of friendship and get the partnership together again. Maybe Donrafael is right, but I am curious to know where he gets his information from, so that he can state so assuredly that this is down to Rafa's pride, as opposed to any actions of Ayesteran.

But Donrafael is strangely reluctant to answer this simple question. Donrafael simply refers to the media asking questions and fans (like him) speculating on forums. Where are the facts?

Rafa's response has been simply to say that the team is not affected by it - he is out on the pitch with the team. In other words, it's a storm in a tea cup.

Mind you, if it is true, Rafa is hardly likely to openly admit it, as it might affect morale.

Come on Donrafael: your accusations about this being down to Rafa's pride, or as you like to say, his cajones,  is nothing more than gossip mongering. So unless you know something and can state proper sources, as opposed to fan forums or journalists speculating, how about you pack in the "pride" accusations against Rafa and leave the subject alone, or at the very least, stop making these statements as though they are facts, or based on facts, when neither you nor I really know what happened between them.

Hasn't Rafa got enough to contend with without LFC fans pandering to the gossip columns?

quote redkop63 'We need to look forward and get someone in the mould of Pako and perhaps to also mould this candidate to replace Rafa eventually.'

Suddenly Pako is elevated to a Christ-like figure in touch with the players to such an extent that just by his very absence, has brought about this recent run of form

Benitez is now dispensible. I mean, come on,  surely we can replace him pretty easily.................. .......... no?   I thought not

so whats next's week main topic for discussion?.....sell Gerrard?

From now on, you are Scouser 90

- very good 

Taken from another thread about Pako :

A fan generated experience? Where's your facts? You don't answer the question. How do you know what happened between Rafa and Pako? Rafa answered questions put; he didn't make a statement, and he refutes the extent of any supposed impact. You are the dodger. You are the one hijacking threads with your drum. Let's see how you deal with the argument in the right thread...

...Which is here. Donrafael has been banging on in other threads, but not this one it seems, about how Rafa is too proud to take Pako back; that he should offer the hand of friendship and get the partnership together again. Maybe Donrafael is right, but I am curious to know where he gets his information from, so that he can state so assuredly that this is down to Rafa's pride, as opposed to any actions of Ayesteran.

But Donrafael is strangely reluctant to answer this simple question. Donrafael simply refers to the media asking questions and fans (like him) speculating on forums. Where are the facts?

Rafa's response has been simply to say that the team is not affected by it - he is out on the pitch with the team. In other words, it's a storm in a tea cup.

Mind you, if it is true, Rafa is hardly likely to openly admit it, as it might affect morale.

Come on Donrafael: your accusations about this being down to Rafa's pride, or as you like to say, his cajones,  is nothing more than gossip mongering. So unless you know something and can state proper sources, as opposed to fan forums or journalists speculating, how about you pack in the "pride" accusations against Rafa and leave the subject alone, or at the very least, stop making these statements as though they are facts, or based on facts, when neither you nor I really know what happened between them.

Hasn't Rafa got enough to contend with without LFC fans pandering to the gossip columns?

Wouldn't you like to know sunshine... wouldn't you really like to know...

Just ask the mods where my IP connection is from to this forum... Madrid, Spain.

I fly over regularly with my son to LFC games. Like I did for Marseille and Spurs.

In fact I flew back on the same plane as Torres on Monday on his way to the Spain squad... and my son got two signed Posters mag photo signed from him. Total gent.

That is all I am going to say for now... but I'm not having you question me, my sources or my opinions as if they are total bullshit... again if ONLY you knew...

Now take this, roll-it-up gently, stuff it in your pipe ...and have a good long smoke...

Hasta la vista amigo... y si quieres saber mas, pregunta todo lo que quieras que no te voy a contar nada - OK?

Are those your testicles on the floor Jammydodger... pick them up again won't you... they make the place look messy.

Is donrafael = G. Balague?

Wouldn't you like to know sunshine... wouldn't you really like to know...

Just ask the mods where my IP connection is from to this forum... Madrid, Spain...

Are those your testicles on the floor Jammydodger... pick them up again won't you... they make the place look messy.

The bollocks is all coming from your direction, mate. All huff and puff and no substance.

If you have the inside spin, how come you just previously referred to media speculation and forums and phone ins? And now some story about being on the same plane as Torres? If true, so what?

IP addresses don't mean much as you can use a proxy.

Insider knowledge? Give over - you're just making yourself out as some big shot with the inside spin. Oooh, I flew on the same plane as Torres. Big deal.

Why on earth should I believe you? You offer nothing by way of proof. You're not being arsed is more likely to mean you don't have any proof. This stuff about Rafa's pride is still unsubstantiated gossip.

Prove me wrong. Put up or shut up.

Listen fella...

I'm no big shot. I don't mean to be more than you or any other loyal red.

I am a decent Liverpool supporter for many years (my earliest memory of football is watching Liverpool beat Newcastle in 1974 and since then I've been hooked) - yes I am currently living in Madrid (no proxy!) - and yes I have some decent footy contacts out here - but that's no big deal either. OK.

I did happen to be on the same flight as Torres on Monday - not a big deal for me - but one of the most memorable moment/days for my 8 year old son - for sure. Fernando did take time out to speak to us, sign some photos and have his picture taken with us at Madrid airport - but as you say, big deal - so what.

I repeat, I'm no big shot... if you think I'm full of sh*t - then that's fine....let's just keep it there - I honestly don't want to argue with you.

Stay Red, stay healthy and be happy.

YNWA.