Trending Topics

      Next match: LFC v Brighton [Premier League] Sun 31st Mar @ 2:00 pm
      Anfield

      Today is the 29th of March and on this date LFC's match record is P24 W11 D6 L7

      LFC Reds Poll

      Q. Pako's departure - the effect on the reds?

      Very very very bad
      (18.4%)
      Not ideal
      (69.4%)
      Makes no difference
      (8.2%)
      Pako who?
      (4.1%)

      Pako Ayesteran off

      Read 18597 times
      0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
      redkenny
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 24,912 posts | 1058 
      • 97 - Always Remembered
      Re: Is Pakos departure now a major issue?
      Reply #69: Oct 10, 2007 11:01:06 pm
      Glad for your son to meet Torres, donrafael. You must have been chuffed. That will stay with him for the rest of his life. Good stuff.

      Is Pakos departure now a major issue?

      For me this is just silly. A major issue?? The only people who can really debate this, is the players.

      If anything at the most, it could prove unsettling to the players for the short time being. The only way I can see an effect is in the training regime. This no doubt, is currently being addressed.
      Once the players cross the white line, they don't have Pako running about holding their hands.

      Bottom line for me is, we've hit some bad form and we've been playing poor football. It happens. It's happened before and it will happen again. It's up to the players themselves to rise up.

      If we continue to be poor and don't look like improving then my questions will be about the players and their desire, first off. For me, that's the major issue. They're the ones that play football and not Pako.

      koolkidda
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 2,007 posts | 41 
      Re: Is Pakos departure now a major issue?
      Reply #70: Oct 10, 2007 11:19:38 pm
      Suddenly Pako is elevated to a Christ-like figure in touch with the players to such an extent that just by his very absence, has brought about this recent run of form

      Benitez is now dispensible. I mean, come on,  surely we can replace him pretty easily.................. .......... no?   I thought not

      so whats next's week main topic for discussion?.....sell Gerrard?

      Good post.

      F**k Pako off.  If he said he wanted to leave or anything of that ilk I don't care if he knows the secret ingredient for the Melwood paella - Rafa is the boss and that's the end of the story.

      Some good insights there donrafael - I would favour a return for Gary Mac although I would have questions over his ability at this level.  I am sure having a Scot back in the dug out would be very reminiscent of the good old days.

      JD
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 39,529 posts | 6887 
      Re: Is Pakos departure now a major issue?
      Reply #71: Oct 10, 2007 11:27:23 pm
      Prove me wrong. Put up or shut up.

      Bit harsh methinks.

      It would be entirely natural for the players to develop a close bond with Pako, as Rafa has always remained aloof somewhat from the players.  There has always been questions about his ability to handle 'big names' and how he prefers a hard-working team to a team filled with superstars.

      Obviously the Spanish contingent would be upset at losing the most senior Spaniard at the club who they probably feel they can talk to about the everyday stuff.

      There will not be a reconciliation.  I'm prepared to wager the missus on it.
      koolkidda
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 2,007 posts | 41 
      Re: Is Pakos departure now a major issue?
      Reply #72: Oct 11, 2007 12:02:33 am
      I'm prepared to wager the missus on it.

      I'd much rather you put down something a bit more substantial like a fiver.
      kingjari
      • Forum David Johnson
      • **

      • 216 posts | 10 
      • Spirit of Shankly/Liverpool Supporters Union
      garry macca for assistant manager.
      Reply #73: Oct 11, 2007 02:51:42 am
      I have to admit the whole pako situation has me a little dazed and confused. despite the rumours and speculation, no one on these forums knows the real reason for his departure but we are all familiar with the possible consequences. lack of focus, lack of effort, motivation and cohesion.
      do we need another assistant manager ? are the staff already at lfc capable of filling the gap ?  these are questions already discussed in other threads. the purpose of this one is to disscuss if Gary Macca is a likely/suitable candidate.
      what do you think ?
      I believe his presence would bring the best out of stevie G again, he's known to rafa, is an experienced coach/manager and an LFC legend. we have two fitness coaches to carry on  pakos good work in paco de miguel and antonio gomes. but I truly believe we need a coach, a genuine fella like Garry Macca who can be the buffer between Rafa and the players. who knows what its like to pull on the red shirt and can impart that to the players and help Rafa to keep them motivated. I don't know about Garry Maccas tactical knowledge but  Alex Miller is more than capable in that regard. 
      so what do you think ?? is garry macca our man ??
      Oldred
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 1,230 posts | 87 
      Re: Is Pakos departure now a major issue?
      Reply #74: Oct 11, 2007 08:50:39 am
      There will not be a reconciliation.  I'm prepared to wager the missus on it.

      I'd much rather you put down something a bit more substantial like a fiver.

      Any chance of a picture before I consider the bet?

      I think koolkidda's suggestion of Gary Mac as the new assistant manager has a lot of merit in it.
      donrafael
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 2,645 posts | 48 
      Re: Is Pakos departure now a major issue?
      Reply #75: Oct 11, 2007 10:16:04 am
      I have to admit the whole pako situation has me a little dazed and confused. despite the rumours and speculation, no one on these forums knows the real reason for his departure but we are all familiar with the possible consequences. lack of focus, lack of effort, motivation and cohesion.
      do we need another assistant manager ? are the staff already at lfc capable of filling the gap ?  these are questions already discussed in other threads. the purpose of this one is to disscuss if Gary Macca is a likely/suitable candidate.
      what do you think ?
      I believe his presence would bring the best out of stevie G again, he's known to rafa, is an experienced coach/manager and an LFC legend. we have two fitness coaches to carry on  pakos good work in paco de miguel and antonio gomes. but I truly believe we need a coach, a genuine fella like Garry Macca who can be the buffer between Rafa and the players. who knows what its like to pull on the red shirt and can impart that to the players and help Rafa to keep them motivated. I don't know about Garry Maccas tactical knowledge but  Alex Miller is more than capable in that regard. 
      so what do you think ?? is garry macca our man ??


      I think that Gary Mac could be a good addition to an already extensive back-room staff (even not counting Pako).

      The question is could Rafa work with Gary Mac? I don't frankly know... what would be Gary's role (without clear role and responsibilities definition it could be a recipe for disaster).

      You missed one name in your post in Rafa's new look back room staff - Angel Vales (see link below) - joined LFC in July and appointed new Head of Technical Analysis for the senior team. Angel has taken over a lot of Pako's technical fitness analysis work (as the thought process with Rafa and Parry - was that Pako was about to join Athletic de Bilbao in the summer - as Pako was explicitly named to be the next Personal Assistant/Football Director within Javier Gonzalez losing Athletic de Bilbao presidential candidate's new management team - see last line of link below of 12th July the day of the elections - which never happened as Javier Gonzalez narrowly lost the presidential elections - leaving Pako in an unfortunate situation with LFC and more specfically with Rafa himself who had built a new/fresh spanish contigency team taking over many of Pako's area of responsibilities... when Pako returned to his job in July, there was TOO MUCH OVERLAP in work with the new members of the team, particularly Angel Vales (who both Rafa and Pako had worked with years ago at Tenerife, but only Rafa was involved in recruiting for LFC)... Pako had a fallout with Angel in late July and from there on with Rafa - almost on a daily basis at Melwood and away from Melwood (in Switzerland Rafa and Pako had TWO terrible arguments, one of them in-front of Xabi Alonso, a fellow-basque and good professional and personal friend of Pako)...

      Pako continues on gardening leave (authorised by Parry) - at least until Christmas and possiibly the rest of the season (as Pako has not sold his house in the UK and is prepared to stay in the UK) -  rumour has it...and this bit is pure rumour (unlike above paragraph) ...Mourinho offered Pako a job within his back-room staff at Chelsea (as Pako explained in confidence to Jose what was happening to him at LFC) - well we all know what happened to Jose...and with him that rumoured offer (of August) to Pako...

      http://www.as.com/futbol/articulo/athletic-juega-gonzalez-macua-ercoreca/dasopi/20070712dasdaiftb_51/Tes

      http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/team/squad/vales/

      But hey I don't want to be called a big shot who speaks a load of bull relating to this Pako subject (which frankly is getting a little boring even for me and my drum - so we will leave that one there... as some body else said... ultimately it's the players who have to pull up their socks and be counted, starting at Everton on the 20th (which is a truly massive game now in terms of this seasons aspirations).

      Before anybody asks, I am NEVER going to talk about who told me what, where or when. That I will NEVER say... but it's important that the fans know (amongst all the bullshit that has been said and written) the real facts behind Pako's situation (brought on by Pako himself may I add).

      IN RAFA WE TRUST.
      « Last Edit: Oct 11, 2007 10:39:08 am by donrafael »
      Saffi 7
      • Forum David Johnson
      • **

      • 225 posts | 17 
      • "...that's why they paid 26 million for him..."
      Re: Is Pakos departure now a major issue?
      Reply #76: Oct 11, 2007 10:54:55 am
      Well mate, whatever the facts are, the main thing is that its up to the players to shrug of any negativity surrounding the club over the last few weeks and produce a matchwinning display against everton...I believe that we will turn it around and find our form again...with or without an assistant manager.
      donrafael
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 2,645 posts | 48 
      Re: Is Pakos departure now a major issue?
      Reply #77: Oct 11, 2007 10:57:56 am
      Well mate, whatever the facts are, the main thing is that its up to the players to shrug of any negativity surrounding the club over the last few weeks and produce a matchwinning display against everton...I believe that we will turn it around and find our form again...with or without an assistant manager.

      I also believe the same.

      SG has a key role as captain - I just hope he doesn't get injured for England... if that happens then the key role becomes JC's who will be fresh and is probably a little more vocal than SG...
      kingjari
      • Forum David Johnson
      • **

      • 216 posts | 10 
      • Spirit of Shankly/Liverpool Supporters Union
      Re: Is Pakos departure now a major issue?
      Reply #78: Oct 11, 2007 12:35:45 pm

      You missed one name in your post in Rafa's new look back room staff - Angel Vales (see link below) - joined LFC in July and appointed new Head of Technical Analysis for the senior team. Angel has taken over a lot of Pako's technical fitness analysis work
      http://www.as.com/futbol/articulo/athletic-juega-gonzalez-macua-ercoreca/dasopi/20070712dasdaiftb_51/Tes

      http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/team/squad/vales/


      I was aware of Angel Vales joining us this summer but i did'nt refer to him because i was talking about the first teams fitness coaches.
      donrafael
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 2,645 posts | 48 
      Re: Is Pakos departure now a major issue?
      Reply #79: Oct 11, 2007 12:39:15 pm

      I was aware of Angel Vales joining us this summer but I did'nt refer to him because I was talking about the first teams fitness coaches.

      He is the club's Head of Technical Analysis... that covers EVERY first team game preparation.

      He is also reserve team fitness coach...
      jammydodger
      • Forum Alan Hansen
      • ****

      • 641 posts |
      Press Statement over Pako - Official site.
      Reply #80: Oct 13, 2007 06:57:44 pm
      From http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N157231071013-1501.htm

      Pako Ayestaran is to step down from his position as assistant manager at Liverpool FC, although he will be contracted to the club through to June 30, 2008.
      Chief executive Rick Parry commented: "Following discussions between Rafael Benitez and Pako Ayestaran, it has been agreed that it would be in the best interests of all parties if Pako leaves his post as assistant manager. Pako, however, will remain under contract to us until next summer.
       
      "The club want to thank Pako for his hard work and contribution to our success over the past three years."
      JD
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 39,529 posts | 6887 
      Re: Is Pakos departure now a major issue?
      Reply #81: Oct 14, 2007 08:55:01 pm
      Re-confirmed by the club.  There will be no reconciliation.  Ayesteran under contract until the end of June 2008.



      http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/7043936.stm

      Liverpool have revealed Pako Ayestaran has stepped down from his position as assistant manager to Rafael Benitez.
      Ayestaran, who has been linked with a return to Spain, remains contracted to the Reds until 30 June 2008, meaning he cannot take up another job until then.

      Chief executive Rick Parry told the club website: "After talks between Pako and Rafael, it would be in everyone's best interests if Pako leaves his post.

      "Pako, however, will remain under contract to us until next summer."   

      Parry added: "The club want to thank Pako for his hard work and contribution to our success over the past three years."

      Ayestaran worked together with Benitez at Tenerife and Valencia and they moved to Liverpool together in June 2004.
      donrafael
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 2,645 posts | 48 
      Re: Is Pakos departure now a major issue?
      Reply #82: Oct 25, 2007 11:03:26 am
      So it's beginning to sink in that Pako's departure has contributed in whaever measure to the performances on the field...

      It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that Rafa has been a little clueless/lucky with some of his substitutions this season (compared to other seasons) - WHY?

      Who can forget the images of Pako (always sitting next to Rafa - for 11 years!) CONSTANTLY talking to eachother during a game...

      What were they talking about? What their respective missus' was making for dinner or wearing in the bedroom later that evening? I think not.

      As a management team at Melwood (Tenerife and Valencia) they played the good cop/bad cop role (one close, the other distant).

      As a management team during games they discussed individuals and tactics, cross-referenced with performance/attitude during that previous week and made excellent (probably JOINT) decisions on the fly - if not why the feck did Rafa talk to Pako so much during games?????

      Rafa's playing down of Pako's role - as purely a fitness technitian - is an insult to Pako and their professional, and by many accounts, personal friendship over so many years. Still to this day, can't understand the level of bad feeling...

      Maybe Pako just told Rafa he was getting a tad overweight and Rafa took it very badly...eh... I wish ;0).

      If I really do have a wish, it would be to see Rick Parry, Rafa Benitez and Pako Ayestaran (still on payroll, to the end of the season) in a press conference at Anfield any day - all putting pride to one side and putting Liverpool FC to the front.

      Rafael Benitez WITHOUT Pako Ayestaran, the man he has worked with so successfully for the last 11 years - is still a good manager, but NOT a Great Manager. That is now becoming apparent, maybe he is just getting used to working without Pako... and will come good, I REALLY HOPE SO.

      That said, I trust Rafa, I wish him all the best at our club - because our dreams to lift the Premiership are still alive this season... but depending on Sunday, only just or more of a dream than a genuine wish.

      In Rafa (we still) Trust.

      YNWA.
      Oldred
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 1,230 posts | 87 
      Re: Is Pakos departure now a major issue?
      Reply #83: Oct 25, 2007 01:48:25 pm
      We are now going to struggle to stay in the Champions League.  Lets face it, it will take a miracle to get through the group stage although I've seen enough of them at Anfield in the past.  Although our league position is still not bad we have not been playing well whereas Arsenal have been purring along, Man U after a stuttering start are now producing the goods an Chelski have found some decent form.

      Donrafael's often lambasted (mainly by jammydodger) inside information suggests that Pako has been an integral part of Rafa's success.  It may be coincidence that after Pako's departure we seem to have hit the buffers.  The injuries to Agger and Alonso could have equally been a significant factor.  Other considerations may be the rotation, lack of effort or motivation of the players.  It is too early to judge exactly what the problem is but certainly the Pako factor is a distinct possibility.

      I now view with some trepidation my trip to Anfield on Sunday.  I truly hope that Rafa can disprove my fears that now the Rafa Pako partnership has been terminated so will any hope of success for Liverpool FC.   
      koolkidda
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 2,007 posts | 41 
      Re: Is Pakos departure now a major issue?
      Reply #84: Oct 25, 2007 02:17:27 pm
      I refuse to subscribe to the fact that Pako's departure influences a bunch of highliy paid professional footballers.  We're looking for an excuse and simply connecting the two.

      The fact is we have lost Agger who has been replaced by an immobile Hyypia.  A number of other players have had injuries - I'm thinking Torres, Alonso, Arbeloa.  These players are all important first teamers.

      I think confidence on the pitch is clearly low.  I've got faith that it will be turned around soon because I have seen us go through numerous bad patches in the past and we've come through them.

      We're doing well in the league.  Confidence is the problem - not Pako.  Oldred, you should know better than most of us about Liverpool going through sloppy spells.
      Venom-C
      • Forum Emlyn Hughes
      • ****

      • 806 posts |
      Re: Is Pakos departure now a major issue?
      Reply #85: Oct 25, 2007 02:28:42 pm
      But isn't the injuries and Pako connected? since he WAS the fitness coach?
      donrafael
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 2,645 posts | 48 
      Re: Is Pakos departure now a major issue?
      Reply #86: Oct 25, 2007 02:30:39 pm
      I refuse to subscribe to the fact that Pako's departure influences a bunch of highliy paid professional footballers.  We're looking for an excuse and simply connecting the two.

      The fact is we have lost Agger who has been replaced by an immobile Hyypia.  A number of other players have had injuries - I'm thinking Torres, Alonso, Arbeloa.  These players are all important first teamers.

      I think confidence on the pitch is clearly low.  I've got faith that it will be turned around soon because I have seen us go through numerous bad patches in the past and we've come through them.

      We're doing well in the league.  Confidence is the problem - not Pako.  Oldred, you should know better than most of us about Liverpool going through sloppy spells.

      I have never said that this situation is purely or only down to the Pako factor. I have said it's a contributor factor - and I have also said the professional players are the only ones that can truly resolve this situation. Sunday would be a great way of really shaking off this negativeness...

      May I say this though, I thought this season we were supposed to be the "real deal", with a squad rich enough in talent (in all depts) that could handle injuries and really go for the Prem Title (and other trophies). This is clearly not the case - yet.

      In Rafa We Trust.
      donrafael
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 2,645 posts | 48 
      Re: Is Pakos departure now a major issue?
      Reply #87: Oct 25, 2007 02:34:58 pm
      But isn't the injuries and Pako connected? since he WAS the fitness coach?

      Not sure about that one.

      Pako has always been CLOSE to the players - this is the void that I am not sure has been filled. But professional footballers must just get on with it.

      It's the during the game decisions, that Rafa most certainly took after deliberations with Pako during the game - on the touchline/dug-out (11 years of it btw) - that is of most concern to be honest. That is where lately I sense (sadly) that Rafa has lost/missing a professional crutch/soul-mate... I repeat, they were a winning team at multiple clubs - Liverpool FC being the latest/biggest.

      scouser_10
      • Forum Ian St John
      • ***

      • 430 posts | -12 
      Re: Is Pakos departure now a major issue?
      Reply #88: Oct 25, 2007 02:36:13 pm
      I refuse to subscribe to the fact that Pako's departure influences a bunch of highliy paid professional footballers.  We're looking for an excuse and simply connecting the two.


      I think confidence on the pitch is clearly low.  I've got faith that it will be turned around soon because I have seen us go through numerous bad patches in the past and we've come through them.


      Firstly, like ive said before...and you would know if you have played the best sport in the world....infact, it applies to all sports....
      Football is 90% mental and 10% skill....
      You contradict yourself....confidence is clearly a mental problem, and Paco's presence helped the players...Paco was more than an assistant coach, he was a friend to the players...Paco helped them with their confidence, aided them with personal issues, was very approachable...like a friend...
      Yes, they're highly paid athletes, but the bottom line is....with out the appropriate mental state, nothing can be done....
      If you go into a match thinking your going to lose- you will lose....only because your mentality going in to the game is wrong....
      Brazil in the world cup had all the talent in the world...and one man called Zidane, taught them all a footballing lesson....again, mentaliity is everything...
      The loss of Paco has probably affected the players more than what we think....
      Our poor performances cant be soley blamed on Paco's departure, but there is definitely a VERY HIGH correlation since he's been gone, and the quality of our performances.
      koolkidda
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 2,007 posts | 41 
      Re: Is Pakos departure now a major issue?
      Reply #89: Oct 25, 2007 02:40:16 pm
      You contradict yourself....confidence is clearly a mental problem, and Paco's presence helped the players...Paco was more than an assistant coach, he was a friend to the players.

      For god's sake.

      I'm glad none of you are in charge at Anfield - you'd have Rafa on gardening leave and Pako 'the players friend' in charge.

      scouser_10
      • Forum Ian St John
      • ***

      • 430 posts | -12 
      Re: Is Pakos departure now a major issue?
      Reply #90: Oct 25, 2007 02:47:34 pm
      Its not about having Paco in charge....that's why he was assistant coach.....everything is about balance....Paco provided for the players in areas were Rafa couldnt, and Rafa was the mind and genius behind the team...
      donrafael
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 2,645 posts | 48 
      Re: Is Pakos departure now a major issue?
      Reply #91: Oct 25, 2007 02:49:18 pm
      Firstly, like ive said before...and you would know if you have played the best sport in the world....infact, it applies to all sports....
      Football is 90% mental and 10% skill....
      You contradict yourself....confidence is clearly a mental problem, and Paco's presence helped the players...Paco was more than an assistant coach, he was a friend to the players...Paco helped them with their confidence, aided them with personal issues, was very approachable...like a friend...
      Yes, they're highly paid athletes, but the bottom line is....with out the appropriate mental state, nothing can be done....
      If you go into a match thinking your going to lose- you will lose....only because your mentality going in to the game is wrong....
      Brazil in the world cup had all the talent in the world...and one man called Zidane, taught them all a footballing lesson....again, mentaliity is everything...
      The loss of Paco has probably affected the players more than what we think....
      Our poor performances cant be soley blamed on Paco's departure, but there is definitely a VERY HIGH correlation since he's been gone, and the quality of our performances.

      As an example of how it affected players - I hate, really hate having to bring up this insider-track conversation that I had a fair few weeks ago - but for the record and my desire for true LFC to have a more accurate vision of what happened - I was told that Pako was really close to Xabi (both Basques)... and that Xabi (who had actually been present during one or two of Rafa's "disagreements" with Pako in Switzerland) - was genuinely upset about it all. Remember his poor form games at the start of the season?

      Nobody knows the whole story about what went on - and what is going on with the players and their confidence levels at the minute - but one thing is for sure - Pako during his time, was CLOSE to the players and raised the confidence levels of quite a few players over time (particularly, let it be said, some of the home-sick spanish ones).

      But results also raise confidence - and I was personally convinced that our result at Everton would sent our confidence rocketing again...

      I really wish they could patch-it up but spanish pride and the recent public announcement by Parry has got in the way... if Parry would have continued his (diplomatic, be it somewhat mysterious) silence, maybe just maybe a mutual olive-branch could have been offered/arranged...

      I wouldn't be surprised if the press are trying to get hold of Pako to find-out more now (in the light of our poor form)... but I also wouldn't be surprised if a non-disclosure has been claused into his settlement agreement by Parry/LFC.

      Quick Reply