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      LFC Reds Poll

      Q. END OF 2014/15 POLL: Brendan Rodgers - Stay or Go? (Voting was locked on 1st June 2015)

      Stay
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      Brendan Rodgers (Liverpool -> Celtic -> Leicester)

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      FL Red
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34569: Sep 04, 2015 02:40:57 pm
      I think the problem is that the only way we seem to be able to defend is by sacrificing the attacking side of our game, which may work well away from home, or at least until you concede a goal, but at home you need to attack and push our midfield further forward and we have seen what happens next against W.H.

      As Brendan said "anyone can sit on their 18 yard box and defend" the problem is getting the balance right between attack and defence.

      And to top it off....we may as well have been attacking against West Ham....we gave up 3 goals not pressing and pushing forward...couldn't have done much worse had we taken the game to them.
      srslfc
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34570: Sep 04, 2015 02:44:28 pm
      And to top it off....we may as well have been attacking against West Ham....we gave up 3 goals not pressing and pushing forward...couldn't have done much worse had we taken the game to them.

      The problem I see is that when we concede one the floodgates seem to open a little.
      s@int
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34571: Sep 04, 2015 02:45:44 pm
      We've been consistently producing dire football for too long. At this point I'm convinced our title challenge was predominantly carried by Gerrard's swansong / Sturridge's miraculous fitness and the pure genius of Suarez. The contribution Brendan had on that season is diminishing the more football I see us play so even a slight upturn wouldn't convince me there was actually any merit in sticking with him.

      I mean we've been in something like 11 competitions and failed terribly in all but 2 of those (Semi v Chelsea and Title challenge). Our record against any of our rivals or european team of any stature is absolutely diabolical. His man management, his in game management and his use of players that aren't deemed 'his' has me completely convinced he's simply wasting our time now.

      Benteke was supposedly "perfect", the lad has played pretty decent but the way he is so isolated makes you question what tactics are possibly being employed. The fact we have a team full of right footed players that basically has no left hand side threat at all...

      It would take a monumental turn around that I just don't believe he's capable of.

      I think this is a big part of the problem we have created for ourselves by keeping Brendan in the summer, people no longer believe he can give us steady progress and that any improvement will be temporary as we have seen by the reaction to our loss to W.H.

      People aren't saying that the defeat was just one of those games, just a minor blip, but a sign of things to come.

      I think Brendan will struggle to win back peoples confidence and even if he does turn things around people will still be just waiting for the next bad result.
      AmericanPlant
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34572: Sep 04, 2015 03:16:22 pm
      The players aren't "that bad". They just aren't that good.

      How would I do it?
      My guess is that some games need Sturr+Firminho. Others need Benteke, Sturr and Firminho.

      Countinho can be hustled out of some games. He's much less effective out wide or when physically hassled/closed down.

      Henderson and Milner are similar. Neither can make up distances effectively enough by accurate Alonso style passing.
      Neither can really make breaks forward in the Yaya Toure manner.

      Can seems to have a rawness but MIGHT improve a lot quickly. Lallana is just "ok", and has the added weakness of fading in matches. How can a player who's barely Europa level bring us into the top 4? Thats the case with Lallana and MANY others.

      Ibe is lacking judgment, confidence and composure. This is what happens when u keep selling the stars/leaders/winners and expect kids to step up way before time.

      Mignolet is just average and his distribution is poor.
      Clyne is good enough. Left back is a messy one. Gomez needs to have his confidence protected, and guided along. Same with Moreno who's more of a wing back.

      The centre backs are NOT bad players, its a bad setup, bad scouting, bad management. Any two of Skrtel, Sakho, Lovren COULD do "a job" in the RIGHT set up.

      Ultimately without 3 top class winners, any team will be a bit lost in a real challenge.

      I mean the team Rafa inherited wasnt brilliant. But it had Carra, Hyypia, Gerrard, Hamann AND Alonso.
      WTF does this lot have? The potential of Firminho? The one dimensionality of Milner? The injury record of Sturridge?

      If Rafa's 04-05 team was a weak one (came 5th? in the league) supercharged, what the hell have we got now - with the added emergence of Man City? We have f**k all.

      Fooball is about probabilities, not absolutes. We PROBABLY ok most likely wont get near 4th. Infact who the f**k benefits from 4th really?

      So how can we "maximise the possibilities" of one of the top 4 f**king up?

      Well perhaps try Can and Milner in the middle esp against less phyiscal teams at home.
      Moreno could be left flank. Firminho as 2nd striker, or 3rd if Sturr and Benteke are playing.
      Ibe could be brought on late on.

      To change it, Firminho/Sturr can be moved left. And Cout/Lallana can be moved behind the forward/s.

      I really dont rate Henderson as the midfield leader, let alone captain. Perhaps Henderson can be the "3rd midfielder" eg out wider.

      And as for Joe Bloody Allen...

      Use Benteke when the opponents want to draw deep, or its time for us to change it.

      Use Firminho instead of Countinho in games Cou is likely to be bullied.

      The sad part is, the nearest we can have to "leaders" is relying on Sturr, Firminho and Milner. It really is a shitty situation.  And tho I cant stand BR, I think to criticise him for our failings is very unfair.

      But all in all, I think we've been so shat on, I am refusing to use my home tickets this season. We're being had for cu*ts. I think Rafa (a true miracle worker) would just go ballistic with the owners and say "give the team some cash you pricks".

      s@int
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34573: Sep 04, 2015 03:17:50 pm
      And to top it off....we may as well have been attacking against West Ham....we gave up 3 goals not pressing and pushing forward...couldn't have done much worse had we taken the game to them.

      I think that perhaps Brendan's idea was to set up and play as we had against Arsenal, drawing West Ham out then hitting them on the counter. Obviously the early goal changed that and the fact that we have no real pace meant that we were reliant on Benteke to hold up the ball ... and he was double teamed as part of a well thought out plan by Bilic.

      I agree mate, once we conceded we should have gone to plan "b" but I don't think we had one. 
      HScRed1
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34574: Sep 04, 2015 03:19:36 pm
      I think that perhaps Brendan's idea was to set up and play as we had against Arsenal, drawing West Ham out then hitting them on the counter. Obviously the early goal changed that and the fact that we have no real pace meant that we were reliant on Benteke to hold up the ball ... and he was double teamed as part of a well thought out plan by Bilic.

      I agree mate, once we conceded we should have gone to plan "b" but I don't think we had one. 

      Might be useful having a plan A
      s@int
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34575: Sep 04, 2015 03:39:11 pm
      Might be useful having a plan A


      Brendan had a perfectly good plan "A" mate, defend in depth, let West Ham come on to us and then get the ball quickly up to Suarez and Sturridge who will do the rest. Sadly it had one minor flaw.... the more astute might just be able to spot it. 
      AmericanPlant
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34576: Sep 04, 2015 03:49:18 pm
      A question for me is, if new owners took over, who would be kept?
      Or would EVERYTHING need a overhaul?

      All the players I'd lose sleep over leaving have actually gone over the past 5yrs.
      Who's left? A fit Sturridge? A matured Firminho or Can or Ibe?
      American Red
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34577: Sep 04, 2015 04:03:19 pm
      A question for me is, if new owners took over, who would be kept?
      Or would EVERYTHING need a overhaul?

      All the players I'd lose sleep over leaving have actually gone over the past 5yrs.
      Who's left? A fit Sturridge? A matured Firminho or Can or Ibe?

      New owners taking over just isn't going to happen but just to entertain that, you don't fancy Coutinho, Hendo, Clyne, Milner or Benteke whatsoever? There's more that I think represent good quality, but I'll hold off on going that deep.
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34578: Sep 04, 2015 04:09:03 pm
      I think this is a big part of the problem we have created for ourselves by keeping Brendan in the summer, people no longer believe he can give us steady progress and that any improvement will be temporary as we have seen by the reaction to our loss to W.H.

      People aren't saying that the defeat was just one of those games, just a minor blip, but a sign of things to come.

      I think Brendan will struggle to win back peoples confidence and even if he does turn things around people will still be just waiting for the next bad result.

      Completely agree with this mate.
      waltonl4
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34579: Sep 04, 2015 04:30:35 pm
      If he finishes top 4 and wins the FA Cup he will find an awful lot of support and even this should be towards the lower end of expectations.
      It's becoming more and more clear however that he and FSG do not have the same aspirations for the club as the fans do so what are we left with a club with mediocre players and a mediocre future.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34580: Sep 04, 2015 04:32:52 pm
      Brendan had a perfectly good plan "A" mate, defend in depth, let West Ham come on to us and then get the ball quickly up to Suarez and Sturridge who will do the rest. Sadly it had one minor flaw.... the more astute might just be able to spot it. 

      Aye the days of yonder.
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34581: Sep 04, 2015 04:33:48 pm
      Lets be honest, FSG are trying to do it the Arsenal way, build the stadium up to increase revenues whilst paying low wages to players with potential, problem is Brendan Rodgers is no Arsehole Whinger..
      Roddenberry
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34582: Sep 04, 2015 04:38:12 pm
      I look at his situation and feel he has been given a short reprieve by FSG.  If we're too far behind entering the busy Xmas period, he'll be gone. We've spent a lot without spending a lot, we'll have a decent war chest in January, either way. 
      HScRed1
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34583: Sep 04, 2015 04:38:43 pm
      If anybody thinks we dont spend money, unfortunately looking at the squad you do wonder where has all that money gone!

      Analysis from the football observatory

      Europe’s Top 10 most expensive squads (in millions):

      1. Real Madrid - €587 million

      2. Manchester City - €560m

      3. Manchester  United - €533m

      4. Paris St Germain - €525m

      5. Chelsea - €407m

       6. Barcelona - €394m

      7. Liverpool - €344m

      8. Bayern Munich - €337m

      9. Arsenal - €305m

      10. Juventus - €301m

      American Red
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34584: Sep 04, 2015 04:41:25 pm
      If anybody thinks we dont spend money, unfortunately looking at the squad you do wonder where has all that money gone!

      Analysis from the football observatory

      Europe’s Top 10 most expensive squads (in millions):

      1. Real Madrid - €587 million

      2. Manchester City - €560m

      3. Manchester  United - €533m

      4. Paris St Germain - €525m

      5. Chelsea - €407m

       6. Barcelona - €394m

      7. Liverpool - €344m

      8. Bayern Munich - €337m

      9. Arsenal - €305m

      10. Juventus - €301m

      Interesting point to that, I bet Ronaldo, Bale, and James' kit sales alone over their Madrid careers cover for the ~€240m differences between our squads. At the minimum.
      waltonl4
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34585: Sep 04, 2015 04:44:37 pm
      If anybody thinks we dont spend money, unfortunately looking at the squad you do wonder where has all that money gone!

      Analysis from the football observatory

      Europe’s Top 10 most expensive squads (in millions):

      1. Real Madrid - €587 million

      2. Manchester City - €560m

      3. Manchester  United - €533m

      4. Paris St Germain - €525m

      5. Chelsea - €407m

       6. Barcelona - €394m

      7. Liverpool - €344m

      8. Bayern Munich - €337m

      9. Arsenal - €305m

      10. Juventus - €301m



      barcelona just above us is this an FSG report.Messi,Neymar and Suarez would probably be worth more than £300mil so £394 is bollox and Bayern below us not a chance.
      http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-liverpool/startseite/verein/31
      try this at £231mil
      American Red
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34586: Sep 04, 2015 04:47:05 pm
      barcelona just above us is this an FSG report.Messi,Neymar and Suarez would probably be worth more than £300mil so £394 is bollox and Bayern below us not a chance.

      Think it's based on money spent, not current value. We would be nowhere near the top 10 in terms of liquidating value IMO.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34587: Sep 04, 2015 04:47:29 pm
      barcelona just above us is this an FSG report.Messi,Neymar and Suarez would probably be worth more than £300mil so £394 is bollox and Bayern below us not a chance.

      I think its based on how it cost to put the squad together not how much is it worth, in which case Utd wouldnt get in the Top 100  ;D
      andylfcynwa
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34588: Sep 04, 2015 05:23:23 pm
      I think its based on how it cost to put the squad together not how much is it worth, in which case Utd wouldnt get in the Top 100  ;D
      In which case we would still be behind them which is scary considering how sh*te they are .
      waltonl4
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34589: Sep 04, 2015 06:07:00 pm
      last 10 league games we have 12 points from (from the top of my head) I think the hangover from last season has been a worry and it appears to be lingering about now as well. A defeat next game will have us around the 1.2 / 1.3 points per game so even after 4 games this has become a must win game. i think UTD are there for the taking but if we go looking to get a point we will suffer. He should watch some of our away performance in 13/14 and go there to win the game. PLEASE!!!!!!!!
      Scotia
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34590: Sep 04, 2015 08:04:58 pm
      The problem I see is that when we concede one the floodgates seem to open a little.

      That made me smile mate.

      I know what you mean though the image of the floodgates opening a little amuses me..........bit like being "ever so slightly pregnant".........

      We capitulate regularly. It's worrying.
      Roddenberry
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #34591: Sep 04, 2015 08:33:33 pm
      The problem I see is that when we concede one the floodgates seem to open a little.

      I did something on this late last season, it's so true.  IIRC, we concede once, more than a 50% chance we'll concede a 2nd. 50% plus chance of a 3rd and so on.

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