Before we sack the manager, how will we be off in two seasons time?

Our squad size wise is close to last season but expirence and position wise is very unbalanced - that's down to the managers deals during the summer.

Why does a player have to be over 21 to be classed as a first team player ? we can all reel off plenty of players that were first team regulars by that age - even younger for a fair number of others. We should have 18-20 regular first team players regardless of their age.

You seem to contradict yourself with these two points.

We cant compete with the squads of those clubs currently ( well take away Arsenal because they struggle past their first team ) - City and Chelsea are able to spend millions on two full teams full on internationals - we havent ever been able to do that.

We shouldnt even be talking about challenging for the league just yet - that will talk time for the players to arrive and for our current players just gain valuable expirence. First we have to get past the Newcastles,BS,Spurs and Arsenal - thats how we have fallen over the last three seasons.  You dont just jump back against them in one summer.

Spurs have an OVER 21 squad of 25. Adebayor, Defoe, Bale, Dempsey, Dembele, Sigurdsson.
Newcastle have an OVER 21 squad of 21. Cisse, Ba, Ben Arfa, Cabaye.

Everton have a similar squad size to us. Jelavic, Mirallas, Pienaar, Fellaini. 

Swansea have an OVER 21 squad of 22. Michu, Hernandez, Graham, Dyer. They have options.

Most of these teams have only 2 registered keepers OVER 21.

We have an OVER 21 squad of 20.
That includes Doni, Gulacsi, Jones and Reina.
That's 16 outfield players.

We have 1 fit Striker.

That still doesn't tell me why someone has to be over 21 to be classed as a first team ? We have some younger first team players - as long as they are good enough then the age doesn't matter.

That still doesn't tell me why someone has to be over 21 to be classed as a first team ? We have some younger first team players - as long as they are good enough then the age doesn't matter.

How can you carry that argument and at the same time say we don't have enough experience in the squad is beyond me.
I've given you the figures. I'll leave it there.

How can you carry that argument and at the same time say we don't have enough experience in the squad is beyond me.
I've given you the figures. I'll leave it there.

Has a very very selective mind, which he loves pointing out about others.

Has a very very selective mind, which he loves pointing out about others.

I'm not going to make an argument personal.
I've defended my viewpoint and pointed out a contradiction in the other argument.

I'm happy to have a discussion and I feel strongly about where we need to address certain issues.
I think I've laid out the facts to back that up as best as I can. I should leave it there.

Arsenal would snap him up in a flash - and as Mick says he is very much a London lad and has suffered from home sickness quite regulary.

Losing him to a London club is a possibilty that shouldnt be dismissed.

His Mum was brought up to Liverpool to help him feel settled and it seems to be working. Obviously, we don't know what will happen in the future but things have already been put in place to help the lad.

Arsenal would snap him up in a flash - and as Mick says he is very much a London lad and has suffered from home sickness quite regulary.

Losing him to a London club is a possibilty that shouldnt be dismissed.

I was not saying that they will not sign him, what i meant was going to either of arsenal,chelsea or spurs will stall his perfomance. As he will not get constant first team appearance as he is getting with us currently because of the quality they have in that positions. Unless he developes into a player that can demand a first team spot,i cant see him moving. Will be our lose again. But we are getting used to it now with owen,mcm,alonso,torres etc. I personally think he will end up in chelsea as they are building a strong squad with lot of experience and youths.

How can you carry that argument and at the same time say we don't have enough experience in the squad is beyond me.
I've given you the figures. I'll leave it there.

Is Sterling a first team squad player ? Yes

Same with Shelvey - yes they are gaining expirence but they are still first team players. Remember Hansen's famous line.

Imbalance within the squad in terms of positions is a problem - it would be great for the players to have a bit more game expirence but that's being sorted as each game goes by. Ill take a 17 year old Sterling over plenty over 21's in other teams squads right now or even someone like Downing or Cole.

Fowler and Owen were regular first team players within a couple games regardless of their age.

Those figures you posted are great to read - a young squad competing in the prem and getting better with each match - we should be happy to have a young squad.

Has a very very selective mind, which he loves pointing out about others.

And that helps the debate how exactly ?

No one else has decided to try and turn a debate into something personal until you arrive.

Why were you trying to achieve with that comment

I'm not going to make an argument personal.
I've defended my viewpoint and pointed out a contradiction in the other argument.

I'm happy to have a discussion and I feel strongly about where we need to address certain issues.
I think I've laid out the facts to back that up as best as I can. I should leave it there.

I said there is a inbalance within the squad in terms of positions ( not happy with ) and expirence ( which I'm not that bothered about ) . So the main problem IMO is the striker issue.

But cheers for the debate - good to see it can happen without it getting personal and insults fly about .

I said there is a inbalance within the squad in terms of positions ( not happy with ) and expirence ( which I'm not that bothered about ) . So the main problem IMO is the striker issue.

But cheers for the debate - good to see it can happen without it getting personal and insults fly about .

What I fail to understand is where you find difference in what I've stated.
I'm aware that Sterling and Shelvey are effectively first team players

You have mentioned there being an imbalance in the squad. I agree.
Where it goes awry is when I bring Sterling, Suso, Shevey, Yesil and Pacheco into the argument.
I know that they are now in the first team.

My point is that this highlights an imbalance in the squad that we need to address.
I've put up the other figures from the top four teams and subsequently the teams around us.

Why? Because in doing so I've highlighted the players they have in positions that we have shored up
with the above youth players.

That position/area is in attack. So the OVER 21 squad lists show the numbers difference and it also
shows the area we need to address by highlighting the players at the teams around us in those areas.

Effectively we arrive at the same point, we need striking options, from different directions.

And that helps the debate how exactly ?

No one else has decided to try and turn a debate into something personal until you arrive.

Why were you trying to achieve with that comment

Personal? where do you get that from George? just pointed out you have a selective memory on issues.

Now,as you were.

What I fail to understand is where you find difference in what I've stated.
I'm aware that Sterling and Shelvey are effectively first team players

You have mentioned there being an imbalance in the squad. I agree.
Where it goes awry is when I bring Sterling, Suso, Shevey, Yesil and Pacheco into the argument.
I know that they are now in the first team.

My point is that this highlights an imbalance in the squad that we need to address.
I've put up the other figures from the top four teams and subsequently the teams around us.

Why? Because in doing so I've highlighted the players they have in positions that we have shored up
with the above youth players.

That position/area is in attack. So the OVER 21 squad lists show the numbers difference and it also
shows the area we need to address by highlighting the players at the teams around us in those areas.

Effectively we arrive at the same point, we need striking options, from different directions.

We do arrive at the same point - we need strengthening in the striker department - but hopefully we can still allow them to develop.

Cheers for a good debate

Personal? where do you get that from George? just pointed out you have a selective memory on issues.

Now,as you were.

You posted nothing about the subject both myself and Racer were talking about instead just posted a dig at me.

I'm pretty sure you are clever enough to see the problem with that.

Cheers for a good debate

Anytime. Now I should get back to work.

Anytime. Now I should get back to work.

Good read lads...

The hardest thing about the game is putting the ball in the net, always has been, that where we lack in that final third.
We are all excited by the likes of Sterling and Suso, even Yesil and Morgan but its unfair on them to be relied on so early in their career, it won't help their development to be constantly relied on and ran so hard so early, not only in terms of minutes but pressure to succeed.
When Fowler broke through he had Rushie there to take pressure from him to be the main man, even Barnes as a creative goalscorer .. When Owen broke through we had Robbie, Riedle, Paddy Berger, Mcmanaman to allow him to come through..
These kids don't have the same luxury right now and I wouldn't want that to stem their growth or for people to get frustrated as results aren't where we want them..
Brendan shouldn't be in the position where he is expected to lean on these kids..
We all know that, he knows that, I hope the owners provide him with the resources to bring in a couple of experienced goal scorers to help us and help the kids development..

The squad, with the right few signings (4-5) over the next couple of windows and with a couple of seasons under their belts could be fantastic, I hope that we start that process in January..
It's fantastic to see some of these kids coming through, we have many more as well but it can't all be done by youth development.. Even Dortmund brought Reus in for 15 million or so.. The Utd squad that Hansen spoke about had all those kids but money spent on the likes of Cantona, Cole and McClair in attacking areas around them plus the "relative" experience of Giggs and Sharpe.. And looking none of those kids in 95-96 played over 30 games..

It's about balance, yes develop the bunch but supplement them and help them with experience.


The future is bright but we can't just sit back and expect it to happen.

Yip he needs at least 2 years before he can be judged. IMO.

Good read lads...

The hardest thing about the game is putting the ball in the net, always has been, that where we lack in that final third.
We are all excited by the likes of Sterling and Suso, even Yesil and Morgan but its unfair on them to be relied on so early in their career, it won't help their development to be constantly relied on and ran so hard so early, not only in terms of minutes but pressure to succeed.
When Fowler broke through he had Rushie there to take pressure from him to be the main man, even Barnes as a creative goalscorer .. When Owen broke through we had Robbie, Riedle, Paddy Berger, Mcmanaman to allow him to come through..
These kids don't have the same luxury right now and I wouldn't want that to stem their growth or for people to get frustrated as results aren't where we want them..
Brendan shouldn't be in the position where he is expected to lean on these kids..
We all know that, he knows that, I hope the owners provide him with the resources to bring in a couple of experienced goal scorers to help us and help the kids development..

The squad, with the right few signings (4-5) over the next couple of windows and with a couple of seasons under their belts could be fantastic, I hope that we start that process in January..
It's fantastic to see some of these kids coming through, we have many more as well but it can't all be done by youth development.. Even Dortmund brought Reus in for 15 million or so.. The Utd squad that Hansen spoke about had all those kids but money spent on the likes of Cantona, Cole and McClair in attacking areas around them plus the "relative" experience of Giggs and Sharpe.. And looking none of those kids in 95-96 played over 30 games..

It's about balance, yes develop the bunch but supplement them and help them with experience.


The future is bright but we can't just sit back and expect it to happen.

Totally agree with this..
Our youngsters are so exciting but they should be squad depth impact subs occasional starters. We need to get quality players for the first team in january and not put too much pressure on them so early in their careers risking injury etc.

His Mum was brought up to Liverpool to help him feel settled and it seems to be working. Obviously, we don't know what will happen in the future but things have already been put in place to help the lad.

His mum was taken to Liverpool to address an underlying issue. The kid is seventeen years old and misses his home city by all accounts, that's all I'm saying. Nobody would be happier than me if he finished his career at Liverpool.

If you we're Wenger tho, how about a swap for Sterling and Walcott with us getting a further 7 million or so? Not saying I'd take it mysel necessarily,but I wouldn't stake my life on our owners not being tempted.

No - needs a second season.

Changing managers every season will get us nowhere.

They decided Kenny wasn't getting a second season and to try a different philosophy and structure - they have to give that the chance it needs.

Sorry to pick this post out but i'm having difficulty understanding what you actually mean?.

What different philosophy?. Brendan has even said himself he embraces our philosophy and structure. They didn't give Kenny the chance, so what makes you think they'll give Brendan the chance?.