Financial Fair Play Regulations

This something to be worried about? Last thing we need is a points deduction or worse.

Worst sanction possible seems to be the withholding of Champions League money from the group phases.

Wish this gives the " we've only had a net spend of 12 million " brigade a massive wake up call.

If we are to get money taken away from us then why wasn't the same punishment handed out to City and PSG? They just had their Champions League squads reduced by a couple of players and had to have a net spend of £49m. Yet again UEFA proving they make sh*t up as they go along.

Wish this gives the " we've only had a net spend of 12 million " brigade a massive wake up call.

THAT "brigade" are the only ones awake.

The ones who need to get out of their slumber are the ones who still wanna lick that smarmy git Marty McFly's arse.

Now fin fair play is running, I wonder what crappy excuse he'll come out with next?
"No players available"?
"The team is already brilliant, but Brendan is crap"?
Maybe "aliens stole all the money"?

He doesn't even bother with his "open letter to the fans" bullshit now, some of you are so hypnotised.

___________
Moving on, one of the most perculiar aspects of football finance is that you can claim a loss, when you are actually in profit.
For instance with "amortisation" ie you write down depreciation on a player over the length of his contract.
BUT the player might go UP MASSIVELY.
For instance Suarez, as mentioned above.

I wonder if amortisation had any bearing on timing of the sale of Suarez?

Its part of how they can claim they are making losses but are actually making money. Even if most people won't figure how its being siphoned out.

THAT "brigade" are the only ones awake.

The ones who need to get out of their slumber are the ones who still wanna lick that smarmy git Marty McFly's arse.

Now fin fair play is running, I wonder what crappy excuse he'll come out with next?
"No players available"?
"The team is already brilliant, but Brendan is crap"?
Maybe "aliens stole all the money"?

He doesn't even bother with his "open letter to the fans" bullshit now, some of you are so hypnotised.

___________
Moving on, one of the most perculiar aspects of football finance is that you can claim a loss, when you are actually in profit.
For instance with "amortisation" ie you write down depreciation on a player over the length of his contract.
BUT the player might go UP MASSIVELY.
For instance Suarez, as mentioned above.

I wonder if amortisation had any bearing on timing of the sale of Suarez?

Its part of how they can claim they are making losses but are actually making money. Even if most people won't figure how its being siphoned out.

You are so dense.
The accounts are published every year.
Go download the latest set, and then point out to me where money is being taken.
You'll need to be able to count, and read a balance sheet, as well as a P/L, so I won't hold my breath.

You are so dense.

More like the new

I find it hard to believe we would have breached FFP.

I would find it odd too.

I assume this centres on the two financial years - 2012-13 (for which figures are published) and 2013-14 (ie up until the end of May - for which figures haven't been published).

Admittedly our figures for this coming year (June 2014- May 2015 may be rosy thanks to the Suarez sale/Champions League money) but maybe there is something wrong with 2013-14?  Considering we got an extra bump of Premier League money, failed to buy anyone in January and did little business last summer I would be amazed.  I actually thought we may have turned a profit last season... ?

Is the "investigation" looking at us because we were not in Europe last year though, and that is where they focus - on clubs in the CL or EL.  Don't clubs returning or entering those competitions just get looked at more closely.  Sure I read that somewhere in the last couple of days, but can't think where.

From what I understand all clubs in European competitions submit their accounts at this time. Some clubs that have not submitted accounts before (Liverpool Roma Inter etc) because they weren't in European competitions last year are being looked at more closely.

Liverpool are being investigated further because we have made big losses in the last two accounting periods .... which are only now being looked at by UEFA, we didn't have to disclose them earlier as UEFA say they can't investigate them in the short period between qualifying for European competition (May) and inclusion in the competition.

We will hope to set our losses against Stadium costs £50millionish in 2011/12 for example, against youth development and also that positive steps have been taken to improve our financial position (which is also taken into account)

I think the last point is the one that will probably see us safely over the line and prevent any withholding of Cl earnings. 

Found this article yesterday and as I'm not as cluey as others in regards to FFP, thought I'd give it a read and it's a good one, sorry I still can't get this whole post news article thing right. 

Have Liverpool FC breached UEFA Financial Fair Play Rules?

With reports emerging that Liverpool could have breached the UEFA Financial Fair Play rules, Gunnar Lemmermann holds a conversation with his alter ego TheSpecialGunn over what is behind those reports.
 


First of all I have to say that I am certainly no expert and the rules of FFP aren’t easily understood. But bear with me here. I try not to go too much into detail and leave out certain parts because they won’t affect Liverpool FC.
 
What is FFP and why is it reported that it might affect LFC?
 
Most people refer to Financial Fair Play (FFP) when they mean UEFA’s requirement for clubs to “break even”. But the rule book for UEFA’s FFP is 90 pages long and includes much more. It ensures that clubs keep up with their taxes, pay their players wages on time and their transfer fees.
 
However for most Premier League clubs the “break even” requirements are the main concern.
 
I strongly advise you to watch this video to get a better insight on what FFP is about.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=veeVGFgIq7A


What does this mean for Liverpool’s 2014/15 Champions League campaign?
 
In short: Nothing. As seen in the video above the monitoring period for this years Champions League campaign are the seasons 2011/12, 2012/13 and 2013/14. Because Liverpool didn’t play in the Champions League last season it wasn’t required from them to submit their accounts and there can be no punishment this season. Affected by sanctions (if any) will be the 2015/16 UEFA football season.
 
Sound. So have we breached the rules in a way that it could affect next seasons Champions League campaign if we qualify?
 
We have to reach out a bit more for this. In March 2014 Liverpool released their club accounts. It was showing a combined loss of over £90m for the 2011/12 and 2012/13 season. (More details: The Telegraph)
 



 

This figure is way above the by UEFA permitted loss over two seasons (£37m). If Liverpool would’ve played in the Champions League last the club would’ve certainly failed the FFP “break even” test and would have received a sanction.
 
Hold on a minute. We made a loss of £90m over two seasons when we were allowed a loss of £37m. But the monitoring period interesting for us includes the 2013/14 as well. This doesn’t look good for us does it?
 
Here’s where it gets complicated. There are four factors that all come to our “rescue”:
 1.The £50m loss announced for the 2012/13 season include a number of one-off costs that are unlikely to be repeated in the near future.
 2.By including the 2013/14 season, LFC can include the new increased TV deal (£97.5m – previously: £54.8m – increase: £42.7m)
 3.Certain types of expenditure are allowed to be excluded.
 4.High wage bill during 2011/12 season which can partly be excluded as well.
 
For example: The 2012/13 accounts include £10.7m for player impairment – basically paying up some player contracts.
 
This generated a one-off hit but will reduce wage cost and the gradual write off on transfer fees in future accounts.
 
The accounts for 2013/14 season will include an additional £25m of income relating to the new BT Premier League TV deal (More details: The Guardian). This extra revenue will continue at this level for three seasons and will certainly help to stay within FFP limits. Liverpool might even report a small profit for the 2013/14 season.
 
Got it. You said certain types of expenditure can be excluded. Such as what?
 
UEFA are very keen to develop the game and don’t want the FFP rules to hold back clubs from investing and developing. Clubs can therefore exclude costs for infrastructure development and youth development costs. This helps Liverpool by almost £30m over the three year monitoring period.
 
And there is more: The FFP rules contain an exclusion that allows deduction of player wages during the 2011/12 season if the player was signed before June 2010. This exclusion only comes to fruition if certain very complicated criteria are met. One of them is a reducing trend in losses over the 2012/13 and 2013/14 season.  Liverpool will be able to use this rule to exclude at least £50m.
 
Any chance you could put all this into an overview of things?
 
1. Projected loss for 2011/12, 12/13 and 13/14 seasons: £83m
 
2. Exclusions:
 •Youth and Community costs: £18.9m
 •Depreciation: £9.6m
 •Wage exclusion (as explained above): £50m
 
Total exclusions: £78.5m
 
3. Readjusted loss total: £4.5m
 
(Source: FinancialFairPlay.co.uk)
 
Liverpool are therefore set to pass Financial Fair Play without receiving any sanctions. Plus the additional £25m-50m Champions League revenue will help the club to comply with the FFP rules in the coming years.

http://www.thisisanfield.com/2014/09/liverpool-fc-breach-uefa-financial-fair-play-rules/

You are so dense.
The accounts are published every year.
Go download the latest set, and then point out to me where money is being taken.
You'll need to be able to count, and read a balance sheet, as well as a P/L, so I won't hold my breath.

You really are as thick as two short planks.
LFC was a LEVERAGED investment. Your Yankster heroes put down about 25% or so.
If the club/"brand"/"investment" rises in value 25% or whatever, they can withdraw 20 % or so of what they've put in.
Provided the bank are protected against a downward swing in value.
One way to make this "withdrawal" is by taking part of their equity and using it as collateral for other activities.
As hedge funders, they'll know their way round this, inside out. (You only need look at how Amazon and Starbucks claim they "never" make a GB profit)

Ultimately  all the banks want to risk is 75% or so of the monies that were advanced for the takeover.
There are certain limits on all this.

AS I SAY, you won't see dividends or large cash withdrawals because that would be bad pr. The whole exercise takes place AWAY from LFC Ltd's accounts.

The hedge funders desire to show large revenue and limited expenditure is all part of this desire.
We've seen huge sales to customers, for instance Suarez. And we've seen MAMMOUTH deals like Sky and others.
Ofcourse the mugs who built this club, see our greatest ever player replaced by a bloke who cost less than a QUARTER of his price.

Except you know most of this already. You just want to play the pr parrot and plead ignorance.
Very boring from you. As usual. 

Looking at our accounts is a routine procedure from UEFA.

Now FFP is in place, I look forward to a BIG Summer transfer window, now we're on a level footing with Chelsea, and both Mancs and Arsenal, acc to Marty McFly.

Oh hang on a minute, Summer's over, that didn't happen. Whats the excuse this time?

You really are as thick as two short planks.
LFC was a LEVERAGED investment. Your Yankster heroes put down about 25% or so.
If the club/"brand"/"investment" rises in value 25% or whatever, they can withdraw 20 % or so of what they've put in.
Provided the bank are protected against a downward swing in value.
One way to make this "withdrawal" is by taking part of their equity and using it as collateral for other activities.
As hedge funders, they'll know their way round this, inside out. (You only need look at how Amazon and Starbucks claim they "never" make a GB profit)

Ultimately  all the banks want to risk is 75% or so of the monies that were advanced for the takeover.
There are certain limits on all this.

AS I SAY, you won't see dividends or large cash withdrawals because that would be bad pr. The whole exercise takes place AWAY from LFC Ltd's accounts.

The hedge funders desire to show large revenue and limited expenditure is all part of this desire.
We've seen huge sales to customers, for instance Suarez. And we've seen MAMMOUTH deals like Sky and others.
Ofcourse the mugs who built this club, see our greatest ever player replaced by a bloke who cost less than a QUARTER of his price.

Except you know most of this already. You just want to play the pr parrot and plead ignorance.
Very boring from you. As usual. 

Then you won't have any trouble finding all this in the accounts and posting it, will you?

I'm not going to lie, I don't really get all this bollocks. (My font looks bigger though)

So we are to hope that the FA and/or Premier League impose sanctions against the likes of ManUre, Chavski and Citeh? Yeah, ok

I still think it's going to be impossible for FFP to be enforced

PSG and City were fined 50m a few months ago for breaching FFP rules and had limits on spending imposed. That's significant. I have my doubts about FFP and how effective it's going to be, but it is being enforced to some extent already.

PSG and City were fined 50m a few months ago for breaching FFP rules and had limits on spending imposed. That's significant. I have my doubts about FFP and how effective it's going to be, but it is being enforced to some extent already.

Do these fines get counted as losses and therefore further affect ffp in the future.

Seems stupid to give sanctions for over spending and then make clubs spend more.  Should just ban them from european comps

I'm not going to lie, I don't really get all this bollocks. (My font looks bigger though)

 

Do these fines get counted as losses and therefore further affect ffp in the future.Seems stupid to give sanctions for over spending and then make clubs spend more.  Should just ban them from european comps

no it won't count towards losses. ffp applies to operating losses rather than these type of costs. the point is supposed to teach clubs to live within their means. that's the grand plan...

I wonder if FSG truly anticipated us qualifying for Champions League this season and with us doing so, threw the proverbial spanner into the works regarding FFP - of which they've been strong and outspoken advocates of.

Does anybody know how many of the sponsorship deals will be included because weren't there a couple confirmed after the end of the season?

It could all become irrelevant anyway. Jean-Louis Dupont (Bosman ruling lawyer) filed a complaint with the European Commission last year.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22426733

I find it hard to believe we would have breached FFP.

I would find it odd too...

... Considering we got an extra bump of Premier League money, failed to buy anyone in January and did little business last summer I would be amazed.

Have to agree lads. Maybe I'm trusting FSG too much here but...

If this were true it would be a massive wake up call to the "FSG might not know about football but they do know about business & finance" Brigade. 

Have Liverpool FC breached UEFA Financial Fair Play Rules?

NewsSep 25, 2014
With reports emerging that Liverpool could have breached the UEFA Financial Fair Play rules, Gunnar Lemmermann holds a conversation with his alter ego TheSpecialGunn over what is behind those reports.


LIVERPOOL, ENGLAND - Sunday, November 7, 2010: Liverpool's owner John W. Henry during the Premiership match against Chelsea at Anfield. (Photo by David Rawcliffe/Propaganda)

First of all I have to say that I am certainly no expert and the rules of FFP aren’t easily understood. But bear with me here. I try not to go too much into detail and leave out certain parts because they won’t affect Liverpool FC.

What is FFP and why is it reported that it might affect LFC?

Most people refer to Financial Fair Play (FFP) when they mean UEFA’s requirement for clubs to “break even”. But the rule book for UEFA’s FFP is 90 pages long and includes much more. It ensures that clubs keep up with their taxes, pay their players wages on time and their transfer fees.

However for most Premier League clubs the “break even” requirements are the main concern.

I strongly advise you to watch this video to get a better insight on what FFP is about.


UEFA Financial Fair Play rules (6mins)
What does this mean for Liverpool’s 2014/15 Champions League campaign?

In short: Nothing. As seen in the video above the monitoring period for this years Champions League campaign are the seasons 2011/12, 2012/13 and 2013/14. Because Liverpool didn’t play in the Champions League last season it wasn’t required from them to submit their accounts and there can be no punishment this season. Affected by sanctions (if any) will be the 2015/16 UEFA football season.

Sound. So have we breached the rules in a way that it could affect next seasons Champions League campaign if we qualify?

We have to reach out a bit more for this. In March 2014 Liverpool released their club accounts. It was showing a combined loss of over £90m for the 2011/12 and 2012/13 season. (More details: The Telegraph)

 
This figure is way above the by UEFA permitted loss over two seasons (£37m). If Liverpool would’ve played in the Champions League last the club would’ve certainly failed the FFP “break even” test and would have received a sanction.

Hold on a minute. We made a loss of £90m over two seasons when we were allowed a loss of £37m. But the monitoring period interesting for us includes the 2013/14 as well. This doesn’t look good for us does it?

Here’s where it gets complicated. There are four factors that all come to our “rescue”:

The £50m loss announced for the 2012/13 season include a number of one-off costs that are unlikely to be repeated in the near future.
By including the 2013/14 season, LFC can include the new increased TV deal (£97.5m – previously: £54.8m – increase: £42.7m)
Certain types of expenditure are allowed to be excluded.
High wage bill during 2011/12 season which can partly be excluded as well.
For example: The 2012/13 accounts include £10.7m for player impairment – basically paying up some player contracts.

This generated a one-off hit but will reduce wage cost and the gradual write off on transfer fees in future accounts.

The accounts for 2013/14 season will include an additional £25m of income relating to the new BT Premier League TV deal (More details: The Guardian). This extra revenue will continue at this level for three seasons and will certainly help to stay within FFP limits. Liverpool might even report a small profit for the 2013/14 season.

Got it. You said certain types of expenditure can be excluded. Such as what?

UEFA are very keen to develop the game and don’t want the FFP rules to hold back clubs from investing and developing. Clubs can therefore exclude costs for infrastructure development and youth development costs. This helps Liverpool by almost £30m over the three year monitoring period.

And there is more: The FFP rules contain an exclusion that allows deduction of player wages during the 2011/12 season if the player was signed before June 2010. This exclusion only comes to fruition if certain very complicated criteria are met. One of them is a reducing trend in losses over the 2012/13 and 2013/14 season.  Liverpool will be able to use this rule to exclude at least £50m.

Any chance you could put all this into an overview of things?

1. Projected loss for 2011/12, 12/13 and 13/14 seasons: £83m

2. Exclusions:

Youth and Community costs: £18.9m
Depreciation: £9.6m
Wage exclusion (as explained above): £50m
Total exclusions: £78.5m

3. Readjusted loss total: £4.5m

(Source: FinancialFairPlay.co.uk)

Liverpool are therefore set to pass Financial Fair Play without receiving any sanctions. Plus the additional £25m-50m Champions League revenue will help the club to comply with the FFP rules in the coming years.

LINK

We will learn tomorrow whether or not we have breached and FFP rules. Looks as though we haven't:

@martynziegler  13 mins
Liverpool expected to be cleared of any FFP rule breaches tomorrow and Hull to get a small fine (100,000-200,000 euro). Link to follow

Just read an article about FFP and the possibility that it will be deemed illegal as it infringes on companies rights to invest money to help grow their brand name. Here is the link for anyone interested:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/financial-fair-play-under-threat-brussels-court-case-could-potentially-lead-to-rules-being-scrapped-10070581.html

Personally, I hope FFP is allowed to remain in place, and that UEFA will actually hold clubs in breach accountable. I hope FFP can help put an end to sugar daddies like Abramovic and Sheikh Mansour buying trophies for their little play things.... The amount of money being thrown around by these billionaire owners is ruining the integrity of the game....