Tactics geeks of the world unite...

Agree with your post, however in regard to your last paragraph we do press but not as a team, so yesterday there was glimpses of Milner and then Lallana running around like headless chickens because they were pressing in isolation. This in turn mean Bournemouth found it very easy to bypass our press.

Not sure exactly what the answer is if our players don't have the intelligence to press as a unit 

Yep, that's what I  mean, we need to hunt in packs rather than singular. But, isn't that down to the manager rather than the players? I don't think we have been doing this since Suarez left, and doesn't seem as if we're doing it this season, so I'm pinning it on Rodgers.

Really interesting and insightful read on our tactics (backed up by stats) thus far this season with regards to using Benteke, the ground covered by Milner and Henderson and our preference to attack down the right.

http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/news/news/2015-16/aug/200815-adrian-clarke-talking-tactics-new-look-liverpool.html

Tactical observations from last nights match;

- The manager has developed a pragmatic approach this season it seems. The talk from Brendan before yesterday's game was about analysing what had worked for other sides in the 10 previous victories over the gooners at the Emirates. Over the past three years we have always tried to play true to the managers principles ie. Dominate the ball, get bodies forward, make the pitch as big as possible when we have it and press the ball when we lose it. Last night was the complete opposite, we played deeper, we were happy enough to surrender possession and let them play in front of us, we were compact, we defended like lions, we looked organised and I can't recall being so comfortable at defensive set plays.

- I like the subtle changes we have made to our shape when we have the ball, Carra did a nice piece on it yesterday on MNF. Usually when the ball is with Mignolet our CBs split very wide, the fullbacks get right on the chalk and push on and our front three also play as high and wide as they can in order to give us space to play in. The problem of course is when we lose the ball cheaply and the opposition can break on us and have our CBs and whoever is in the holding role completely outnumbered. Last night our full backs were deeper and tucked in further when the ball was with the keeper and generally speaking if one full back got up the field as part of the attack the other stayed home. It's a subtle change but it affords our centre-halves a little more protection and of course it helps when you have two quick, strong and hard-working lads at fullback in Clyne and Gomez. Kudos also to Lovren who is gradually finding a bit of confidence and with it his voice.

- From an attacking perspective it wasn't pretty football, not the stuff we've come to expect from a Rodgers team in full flight but in that first half it was evident that they couldn't handle Benteke, he was winning everything in the air or into feet and in this game the likes of Coutinho, Milner and Clyne were actually getting in contact with him. Admittedly we had a lot less success in the 2nd half but there is a certain satisfaction from grinding out the clean sheet the way the lads did.

Tactical observations from last nights match;

- The manager has developed a pragmatic approach this season it seems. The talk from Brendan before yesterday's game was about analysing what had worked for other sides in the 10 previous victories over the gooners at the Emirates. Over the past three years we have always tried to play true to the managers principles ie. Dominate the ball, get bodies forward, make the pitch as big as possible when we have it and press the ball when we lose it. Last night was the complete opposite, we played deeper, we were happy enough to surrender possession and let them play in front of us, we were compact, we defended like lions, we looked organised and I can't recall being so comfortable at defensive set plays.

- I like the subtle changes we have made to our shape when we have the ball, Carra did a nice piece on it yesterday on MNF. Usually when the ball is with Mignolet our CBs split very wide, the fullbacks get right on the chalk and push on and our front three also play as high and wide as they can in order to give us space to play in. The problem of course is when we lose the ball cheaply and the opposition can break on us and have our CBs and whoever is in the holding role completely outnumbered. Last night our full backs were deeper and tucked in further when the ball was with the keeper and generally speaking if one full back got up the field as part of the attack the other stayed home. It's a subtle change but it affords our centre-halves a little more protection and of course it helps when you have two quick, strong and hard-working lads at fullback in Clyne and Gomez. Kudos also to Lovren who is gradually finding a bit of confidence and with it his voice.

- From an attacking perspective it wasn't pretty football, not the stuff we've come to expect from a Rodgers team in full flight but in that first half it was evident that they couldn't handle Benteke, he was winning everything in the air or into feet and in this game the likes of Coutinho, Milner and Clyne were actually getting in contact with him. Admittedly we had a lot less success in the 2nd half but there is a certain satisfaction from grinding out the clean sheet the way the lads did.

Excellent points Scott...the manager as you say is being quite pragmatic as you say.

 

The biggest tactical differences this season have come not entirely through formations or setups, but through our purchases. Which seem to have been all very well thought out and designed to achieve the objective that they have been fulfilling thus far.

Our most impactful change between this year and last is our overwhelming ability and willingness to adapt into the flow of the game, rather than attempt to set that flow ourselves. This allows us to compete across many different setups (be it Stoke's newfound mixture of skillful players being combined with their traditional hardworking brutality or Arsenal's possession-centric tight passing build-up game). Not only are we competing, but we're actually able to outplay them using our newfound adaptability.

What do I mean by this?
When going into a match, we used to have this mentality of we're going into this game with one (maybe two) setups. We'll set the pace, we'll keep the ball, and we'll play our game and it will work. If that doesn't work, maybe we can switch it up and try to set the tempo via another method. We were stagnant, stale when met with adversity. If our plans didn't work, we were bested.

Our new mentality and personnel allows us to go into a game lined up in a fluid, dynamic formation. We don't attempt to set the pace of the game, we're comfortable with letting them do that, because we can adapt and counter whatever they decide to do with something better. Our defense can alleviate their threats through targeted match-ups, our midfield can operate fluidly with full possession or no possession, and our attack is filled with such a diverse, yet malleable set of players and mindsets that it will find the capability required to succeed.

Why did we need to change?
Last season we demonstrated that Brendan's mentality of total football is tough, if not impossible, to be successful with. There are simply too many different styles of play and dynamics, and our personnel was just not good enough for it to be able to walk into a PL park and set the paces and see out consistently comfortable victories.

We also were extremely naive and mistaken in our transfer market activities last summer. We felt that replacing one extremely talented world-class footballer with 4 or 5 slightly above average ones was going to be enough. While throwing big money around was going to solve our other issues as well. It simply wasn't the right solution.

This summer our management demonstrated a set in stone plan, pick the players we need, find them, and get them in early enough so as not to lose leverage.

How are we different?
Our signings and our mentality are the key changes.

Bogdan offers motivation and competition for Migs. Keeping him on his toes.

Clyne and Gomez bring pace, defensive abilities, and the ability to have flank support and complete width on our attacks if that's a required setup for success.

Milner brings experience and one of the most versatile (yet good at each role) midfielders in the game. As well as another insane work rate that can couple Hendo's. This allows to adapt to pretty much any midfield necessary given his and Hendo's abilities.

Firmino gives us another adaptable player. Potential to become a top player. But able to player on the wing, through the attacking midfield in any role, as a creative free flow player given license to roam and wreak havoc or as a striker.

Benteke has actually surprised a few I think. Not only does he bring the strength game, able to keep CBs distracted, in check, and at bay as well as hold the ball up for others. But he also has brought someone who can actually link up well with Couts, set him up nicely, and give him some pace to connect to his passes.

Once all of these signings are up to full fitness and have a complete understanding of each other's abilities and the overall mentality at hand, I think we'll see lots of success in our attack and hopefully our defense can keep it locked down in the back.

Couple these signings with our current players and we've got one of the most versatile and adaptable teams in the league. I can appreciate what Brendan has done with our side and FSG for respecting and believing in his vision. At this point it will be a test on both Brendan and our players to stay on their toes and continue to recognize the competition and be able to set up to contain and beat them. I am certainly really hoping for a payoff of this mentality on this season.

How do we fit studger in when fit ? who drops out ?

maybe this, 4-3-3

------------- Mings ------------------
- Clyne - Skrtel - Lovren - Gomez -
------ Hendo - Milner - Firmino -----
----------- Coutinho -----------------
---- Studger --- Benteke -----------

How do we fit studger in when fit ? who drops out ?

maybe this, 4-3-3

------------- Mings ------------------
- Clyne - Skrtel - Lovren - Gomez -
------ Hendo - Milner - Firmino -----
----------- Coutinho -----------------
---- Studger --- Benteke -----------

Push Firmino up next to Benteke and go full on Barca mode 

Push Firmino up next to Benteke and go full on Barca mode 

.

I like it.

Push Firmino up next to Benteke and go full on Barca mode 

Love that one.

I guess the biggest question mark for me tactically is can we be a team who dominate Possession now that we are committed to Benteke as our number 9? I think most fans who were against Benteke coming were worried because of this aspect fearing that we would be less creative, less fluid and that we would have less possession. It's still early doors and to be honest the Stoke game is not one to judge this but the game last night reinforced some of these legitimate concerns for me.

Be interested to hear what others think?

Nothing new to add but to repeat this. I've a horrible feeling I will find myself repeating it this season. Are we going to dominate the ball, camp in the oppositions half and really turn the screw? That what should have happened after they got the early goal yesterday but it never materialised. Possession, movement, tempo and creativity.

Nothing new to add but to repeat this. I've a horrible feeling I will find myself repeating it this season. Are we going to dominate the ball, camp in the oppositions half and really turn the screw? That what should have happened after they got the early goal yesterday but it never materialised. Possession, movement, tempo and creativity.

We don't have the players especially in midfield to dominate possession, not in a constructive manner at least.
I've got to admit I have no idea what Rodgers is trying to achieve with the hoof up to Benteke especially with no one close enough to take advantage of any flick on.
A big target man in a team that has no width!

What we are really missing is a creative CM who can set the tempo and control the game, we really should have gone for Pjanic.

• Here is what we know from our squad

• With sterling and Markovic gone we have no real wingers. Lallana is too slow to play on the wing.
  1 Upfront doesn't work. It hasn't ever without Suarez.
  Gomez doesn't work as LB. He's too right footed, that leaves Moreno as our only option as LB. (Jose Enrique has been frozen out)
  Moreno can't play with Lovren in a back 4.
  Moreno can't play in a back 4.
  Benteke is too isolate on his own.
  Firmino isn't a right winger.
  We dont know Ibes best position

Essentially, we can only play 3-5-2 with our current squad.

• Here is what we know from our squad

• With sterling and Markovic gone we have no real wingers. Lallana is too slow to play on the wing.
  1 Upfront doesn't work. It hasn't ever without Suarez.
  Gomez doesn't work as LB. He's too right footed, that leaves Moreno as our only option as LB. (Jose Enrique has been frozen out)
  Moreno can't play with Lovren in a back 4.
  Moreno can't play in a back 4.
  Benteke is too isolate on his own.
  Firmino isn't a right winger.
  We dont know Ibes best position

Essentially, we can only play 3-5-2 with our current squad.

So what you're saying is that we've got a bunch of players that can't actually do what we need them to do?

• Here is what we know from our squad

• With sterling and Markovic gone we have no real wingers. Lallana is too slow to play on the wing.
  1 Upfront doesn't work. It hasn't ever without Suarez.
  Gomez doesn't work as LB. He's too right footed, that leaves Moreno as our only option as LB. (Jose Enrique has been frozen out)
  Moreno can't play with Lovren in a back 4.
  Moreno can't play in a back 4.
  Benteke is too isolate on his own.
  Firmino isn't a right winger.
  We dont know Ibes best position

Essentially, we can only play 3-5-2 with our current squad.

Nothing but square pegs in round holes really. The transfer committee/Brendan at its/his finest there.

So what you're saying is that we've got a bunch of players that can't actually do what we need them to do?

Yes & No.

• • He didn't buy players to play in his 'system'.
    We made a fair amount of bad buys.
    Good players are made to look bad because they don't fit in the 'system'.

Yes & No.

• • He didn't buy players to play in his 'system'.
    We made a fair amount of bad buys.
    Good players are made to look bad because they don't fit in the 'system'.

Honestly, I'm not so sure he even has a system. I think he's of the school of thought that tiki taka possession play is the way football should be played. He first tried to compose a team around that ideology without having any actual idea of how to execute it: he failed. Then Suarez and Studge came to life, were dominant together supported by Sterling and Coutinho (what an insanely good group of players those four are when fully fit) and that bought him some more time and belief, but he knew tiki taka wasn't going to happen.

So his next plan was to sign a bunch of players that are being successful at lesser clubs and try to fit them together into some kind of a makeshift setup, evidently that has failed. We've got a 6'3" striker without a single winger. We've got a left back who can't actually play left back. We've got the same pairs of CBs that were absolute sh*te last season. Our best player is a little magician who's brilliant and creative, but goes missing when there's a body on him.

We've got ourselves a complete mess composed of a bunch of different parts that realistically don't belong together and are being passed off as a system.

• Here is what we know from our squad

• With sterling and Markovic gone we have no real wingers. Lallana is too slow to play on the wing.
  1 Upfront doesn't work. It hasn't ever without Suarez.
  Gomez doesn't work as LB. He's too right footed, that leaves Moreno as our only option as LB. (Jose Enrique has been frozen out)
  Moreno can't play with Lovren in a back 4.
  Moreno can't play in a back 4.
  Benteke is too isolate on his own.
  Firmino isn't a right winger.
  We dont know Ibes best position

Essentially, we can only play 3-5-2 with our current squad.

I would tend to agree, for the reasons you state, but also because it would mean we can a) use wide players to get crosses in and, b) play a second forward to support and feed off Benteke (Danny Ings would be my preference).

Three CBs helped Lovren somewhat last season when it was used, it would allow Sakho to play in his own position, and I would be training Gomez up as a possible fuure DM, as he seems to be quick, strong and disciplined positionally, as well as pretty good at getting tight on opponents.  Popular though he seems to be, I don't rate Can as ready for a starting place.
                                                Mignolet
                                      Skrtel   Lovren   Sakho
                   Clyne          Henderson    Milner  Coutinho   Moreno
                                    Ings/Firmino/Lallana   Benteke

I would tend to agree, for the reasons you state, but also because it would mean we can a) use wide players to get crosses in and, b) play a second forward to support and feed off Benteke (Danny Ings would be my preference).

Three CBs helped Lovren somewhat last season when it was used, it would allow Sakho to play in his own position, and I would be training Gomez up as a possible fuure DM, as he seems to be quick, strong and disciplined positionally, as well as pretty good at getting tight on opponents.  Popular though he seems to be, I don't rate Can as ready for a starting place.
                                                Mignolet
                                      Skrtel   Lovren   Sakho
                   Clyne          Henderson    Milner  Coutinho   Moreno
                                    Ings/Firmino/Lallana   Benteke

i like this but imo

I'd play Gomez in place of Skrtel, Gomez is ready. Sktrel has been crap for too long. Can is a good enough player, but I would not play him as a DLPM. He is too reliant on one foot and when put under pressure he will not nimble enough to beat a man and create space for himself. Which is a crucial underrated trait of a defensive midfielder.

I would groom Can to be a right sided CB as he is still a good footballer. I'd also groom Illori for a CB role as well.
Milner will work for the time being, but we really need a long term defensive midfielder. Coutinho, Henderson and Lallana could interchange in the CM role in a 3-5-2 , I'd also like to see how Coutinho and Lallana would play with a real DM behind them.

Firmino could play SS and interchange with Ings till Sturridge is back. I feel like Lallana is too slow to play SS.

But this is all just my opinion i could be wrong

Good points, well made.  I tend to agree about Skrtel, I like his courage - he'd run through a brick wall for us - but we need a brain; a leader and communicator back there.  I don't actually think we have that man in the squad right now! Toure?

For me, though, Gomez is ideally placed to become a DM, and would fit your description of the ideal DM but for being reliant on his right foot.  Lallana is probably the most two-footed and quick-thinking mid we have, and could probably put a shift in as DM if needed.

The way I see it atm, we either play with wingers and attack at pace in wide areas (more of a traditional 442):

Clyne Skrtel  Sakho Moreno
        Hendo  Milner
Ibe                        Markovic
       Benteke  Ings/Origi

Or, we go for a more possession based game, press them high up the pitch and have a fluid attack:

Clyne Can  Sakho Moreno
           Lucas
    Hendo    Coutinho
           Firmino
        Ings     Origi

I think we have enough quality to play both systems, but which would gain us the most success?

The way I see it atm, we either play with wingers and attack at pace in wide areas (more of a traditional 442):

Clyne Skrtel  Sakho Moreno
        Hendo  Milner
Ibe                        Markovic
       Benteke  Ings/Origi

Or, we go for a more possession based game, press them high up the pitch and have a fluid attack:

Clyne Can  Sakho Moreno
           Lucas
    Hendo    Coutinho
           Firmino
        Ings     Origi

I think we have enough quality to play both systems, but which would gain us the most success?

Marko was shipped out to Turkey. 

Ibe has also looked really really horrid in every appearance so far.

To be honest, we don't have anywhere near enough quality in our wide players (realistically nobody) to field a 442/4222 style of play. Our best width would come from Clyne and Moreno in a system that would cater to them going forward, but their (Clyne) crosses have looked sh*te this far to me. We're just not a team capable of a crossing game, which is really worrying given our gigantic striker who happens to be a beast in the air.

The second setup would probably be best, I'd like to see Benteke and Origi given a chance together up top. Both from Belgium, similar builds and playing styles, both can actually work in a fluid system and Origi can be someone capable of running off Benteke's flicks and working with him on the hold-up. Ings is capable of the same though.

Either way, I think we need to start playing a two striker system. Benteke has nobody to work with and is constantly being isolated. He needs someone to flick the ball on to, to hold the ball up for, and to work with in parallel. He also is a great distraction which is why Couts had so many chances in the first couple games, imagine how many chances would come up with a second striker and Couts or Firmino backing those up.

Our attack has looked harmless this far, it's time for Brendan to recognize the strengths and weaknesses of the players and systems and start building around them. With who we have and the money that's been spent, we shouldn't look tame. Here's what I would like to see next game:

Migs
Lovren Skrtel Sakho
Clyne         Hendo         Moreno
Milner  Firmino
Benteke            Origi

Defend with 7 (one of Milner or Firmino drops in and takes the lead central press) and attack with 7.

Clyne and Moreno provide natural width and focus solely on dominating the flanks defensively (with support of their sided CB) and offensively. Honestly I would love to see Ilori, Can/Gomez, Sakho back there as I'm fed up with Skrts and Lovren. Think that would be awesome, but I know that there is a 0.0% chance of that happening.

Hendo, Milner, and Firmino control the midfield. Hendo (could also be Milner/Can/Lucas depending on who wants where) operates as DLPM, working hard defensively and supporting the attack from a deeper role. Once Couts comes back he takes Firmino's spot, and Roberto could become the second striker depending on how Origi or Ings performs.

Up top I've got Benteke and Origi, but could be Ings doing exactly what I listed up before. Realistically there's a very very slim chance that even this setup with this personnel will happen, but honestly think things need to be switched up in order to stabilize the sh*tty errors in the backfield after last week's debacle and give our attack a bit of an extra dynamic of firepower so we could maybe actually bag some goals.

Brendan has a good bit of work to do in order to put a system together out of the complete clusterf*ck of personnel that he's brought in.

Couldn't word it better. It's a clusterfuck.

If he churns out the same side with the same tactic I'll fly there and put my foot through his arse.

Have to agree with most of what has been said before. Brendan has got confused about how he sets the team up and the style he wants to play. He was at his best when he set out to attack and press the opposition but think that being out thought by a number of managers tactically has scrambled his thought process, an example being a return to 3 cb's which is a system which i am not totally anti but wasn't appropriate for the game on Saturday and certainly had me worried about his thought process. It's early days for benteke so hopefully Brendan will work out how to get the best out of him on a consistent basis in terms of more support, would say at the moment we seem more suited to playing away from home, although it's only been a couple of games.