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      Simon Mignolet Player Thread: > Club Bruges

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      fishpie
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #552: Jul 27, 2014 01:46:23 am
      Sorry but Sturridge and Coutinho hit the ground running right away.  Henderson was definitely NOT better in his second season---he didn't start showing his current form until last season (n.3).  Allen's improvement is questionable.  Downing never had a good season under us, so I don't know what you're talking about.

      if it's just down to coaching, why didn't he do it last season?  and why didn't our keeper's coach do it last season?

      come on, face up to reality.

      There is no way on earth I'm going to turn on Mignolet, competition is always good.. whatever.
      Coaching may take time to embed itself, how would it be otherwise? Simply doesn't work like that.

       example, de Gea was sh*t with Man u his first season, now he's like f***in' Michael Jordan plucking balls out the air and jumping in like a Spanish wolverine.

      Do not do a direct comparison if you wouldn't mind, the point is; Mignolet was a great goalie last year and he will be better next, simply because I rate our manager to get that point across in training.
      I think Mignolet did a very admirable job with a few nervy moments (what goalie doesn't)
      I also think he will train hard to improve and that he will.

      You may believe he was crap last year and won't improve anyway.
      That is a difference of opinions.



      stuey
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #553: Jul 27, 2014 05:55:53 am
      You're going to have to help me out with this one.  You know he's going to be a beast this season because... he plays for us?

      that's your line of reasoning?

      so every player suddenly becomes a beast automatically in their second year just because they play for us?

      I really, really hope the transfer committee has more of a brain than that and doesn't say "we don't need competition for Mignolet, he's going to be a lot better this season... why?  well... he just will!"

      Hopefully they'll actually sit there and think "look, he didn't exactly cover himself in glory last season, he doesn't talk to the back four, he is afraid of his own shadow in the box, he's tentative, and we already are shaky enough in defense, we need to bring someone else in to challenge him." 




      What the F**k are you on about, I infer that I/we hope that Mignolet improves and can be a part of the success we all yearn for.
      Where in that is the word ''beast''.
      federer
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #554: Jul 27, 2014 10:20:40 am
      You may believe he was crap last year and won't improve anyway.  That is a difference of opinions.

      I didn't say that.  I have no idea if he is going to improve or not.  That's the problem---he may not. 

      So are you willing to risk having another year of a shaky keeper who can't organize the defense, just because you "hope" he will be better?

      We can only go on what we know.  And what we know is that last season he didn't exactly cover himself in glory.  He was shaky in the box, he didn't talk to the back four, he flaps in the air, etc etc. 

      What you're saying is that you HOPE he is going to change, but unfortunately we're not in a position to take that risk.  We have to win.  Competition in the league is going to be even more challenging this year, so every point matters.  And it's not even just about points Mignolet could cost us directly from mistakes, but points we could lose because he doesn't organize the defense properly etc.

      So we have to have competition for him.  BR said that himself, that competition brings out the best in all the players.  So why don't you want competition for him?

      If you really don't want to improve on Mignolet based on the fact that you somehow "know" he's going to get better, then it means you're putting Mignolet first and the success of the club second.  No player is more important the club.  We need competition for Mignolet, whether that's Pepe or someone else, I don't know.

      But we can't just cross our fingers and hope he does better this season. 

      Because he might not do.
      stuey
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #555: Jul 27, 2014 10:32:02 am
      I didn't say that.  I have no idea if he is going to improve or not.  That's the problem---he may not. 

      So are you willing to risk having another year of a shaky keeper who can't organize the defense, just because you "hope" he will be better?

      We can only go on what we know.  And what we know is that last season he didn't exactly cover himself in glory.  He was shaky in the box, he didn't talk to the back four, he flaps in the air, etc etc. 

      What you're saying is that you HOPE he is going to change, but unfortunately we're not in a position to take that risk.  We have to win.  Competition in the league is going to be even more challenging this year, so every point matters.  And it's not even just about points Mignolet could cost us directly from mistakes, but points we could lose because he doesn't organize the defense properly etc.

      So we have to have competition for him.  BR said that himself, that competition brings out the best in all the players.  So why don't you want competition for him?

      If you really don't want to improve on Mignolet based on the fact that you somehow "know" he's going to get better, then it means you're putting Mignolet first and the success of the club second.  No player is more important the club.  We need competition for Mignolet, whether that's Pepe or someone else, I don't know.

      But we can't just cross our fingers and hope he does better this season. 

      Because he might not do.

      Will you F***ing leave it out, you are talking about supporters of Liverpool Football Club.
      As the word implies they collectively hope for the best for the team and individual players, yet in your opinion that whole structure is faulted!?!?

      You are taking the piss, how about you F**k off and apply your jaundiced idea of support to your own bag of sh*te team, whoever that might be.
      federer
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #556: Jul 27, 2014 10:53:36 am
      Will you f**king leave it out, you are talking about supporters of Liverpool Football Club.
      As the word implies they collectively hope for the best for the team and individual players, yet in your opinion that whole structure is faulted!?!?


      there's nothing wrong with hoping for the best out of our players. 

      the problem is when that hope goes so far that you don't want anyone else who might be better.

      at that point you're putting the player before the club.

      if hope were all that were needed we'd still be sat here twiddling our thumbs "hoping" Stewie Downing would come good.

      What we need is competition for Mignolet.  If he gets better this season then great!

      but if he doesn't we won't be stuck with Brad Jones as the backup.

      that's called wanting what is best for the club. 
      fishpie
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #557: Jul 27, 2014 11:12:23 am
       
      I didn't say that.  I have no idea if he is going to improve or not.  That's the problem---he may not. 

      So are you willing to risk having another year of a shaky keeper who can't organize the defense, just because you "hope" he will be better?

      We can only go on what we know.  And what we know is that last season he didn't exactly cover himself in glory.  He was shaky in the box, he didn't talk to the back four, he flaps in the air, etc etc. 

      What you're saying is that you HOPE he is going to change, but unfortunately we're not in a position to take that risk.  We have to win.  Competition in the league is going to be even more challenging this year, so every point matters.  And it's not even just about points Mignolet could cost us directly from mistakes, but points we could lose because he doesn't organize the defense properly etc.

      So we have to have competition for him.  BR said that himself, that competition brings out the best in all the players.  So why don't you want competition for him?

      If you really don't want to improve on Mignolet based on the fact that you somehow "know" he's going to get better, then it means you're putting Mignolet first and the success of the club second.  No player is more important the club.  We need competition for Mignolet, whether that's Pepe or someone else, I don't know.

      But we can't just cross our fingers and hope he does better this season. 

      Because he might not do.

      Most people would welcome competition in the form of another top goalie, I'm not all nostalgic and every player can get away with anything because they play for the team I support.
      The manager is after another goalie isn't he?
      In the meantime- Mignolet is class.
      To blame him for all the defensive frailties, when I see it more like they left him in the sh*t more often than not, is just too much.
      He came out and missed a couple of balls/punches etc so what? How many goalies do that?
      srslfc
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #558: Jul 27, 2014 11:28:57 am
      I didn't say that.  I have no idea if he is going to improve or not.  That's the problem---he may not. 

      So are you willing to risk having another year of a shaky keeper who can't organize the defense, just because you "hope" he will be better?

      We can only go on what we know.  And what we know is that last season he didn't exactly cover himself in glory.  He was shaky in the box, he didn't talk to the back four, he flaps in the air, etc etc. 

      What you're saying is that you HOPE he is going to change, but unfortunately we're not in a position to take that risk.  We have to win.  Competition in the league is going to be even more challenging this year, so every point matters.  And it's not even just about points Mignolet could cost us directly from mistakes, but points we could lose because he doesn't organize the defense properly etc.

      So we have to have competition for him.  BR said that himself, that competition brings out the best in all the players.  So why don't you want competition for him?

      If you really don't want to improve on Mignolet based on the fact that you somehow "know" he's going to get better, then it means you're putting Mignolet first and the success of the club second.  No player is more important the club.  We need competition for Mignolet, whether that's Pepe or someone else, I don't know.

      But we can't just cross our fingers and hope he does better this season. 

      Because he might not do.

      What do you suggest 'we'  do about it then Fed?

      I'm sure Fishpie, Stuey and the others who have commented on Migs are infering that because he may be more settled in his second season the obvious nerves he had will be lessened and we may well see the keeper Brendan thinks he did when he bought him.

      I think he will improve and despite concerns I had about him last season I still think he is one of the better keepers in the league and I expect him to be better this coming season than last  and for me that will have him again as one of the top keepers in the league.

      stuey
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #559: Jul 27, 2014 11:34:29 am

      there's nothing wrong with hoping for the best out of our players. 

      the problem is when that hope goes so far that you don't want anyone else who might be better.

      at that point you're putting the player before the club.

      if hope were all that were needed we'd still be sat here twiddling our thumbs "hoping" Stewie Downing would come good.

      What we need is competition for Mignolet.  If he gets better this season then great!

      but if he doesn't we won't be stuck with Brad Jones as the backup.

      that's called wanting what is best for the club. 

      Hope is infinitesimal how can it ''go too far''.
      You introduce Downing and Jones into the discussion to attempt to give your negativity a fingertip hold, guess what? it doesn't work.
      TheRedMosquito
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #560: Jul 27, 2014 04:13:21 pm
      Sorry but Sturridge and Coutinho hit the ground running right away. 

      They did. But they also improved other aspects of their game in their second seasons. Coutinho, for example, was much better defensively both in terms of tracking back and making tackles, and also being able to hold players off. Sturridge's all-around game improved.

      Henderson was definitely NOT better in his second season---he didn't start showing his current form until last season (n.3).

      Henderson's first season, which was under Kenny, was abysmal. His second season, Brendan's first, saw marked improvements in a number of areas, not least confidence. You're telling me that strike against Norwich wasn't improvement? That the 5 goals he scored -- the most he's ever scored in a single league campaign in his career -- isn't improvement? Yes, last season, his third, was immense and we lost the title because of his absence. But it's extremely laughable, uninformed and unobservant to say he was NOT better in his second season than his first.

      Allen's improvement is questionable.

      Questionable because you have preconceived notions about the player? Allen was hugely important last season when we needed him to be. He was part of that midfield with Lucas and Hendo that played City off the park at the Etihad and Spurs at the Lane. He was all over the Old Trafford pitch and won a penalty to boot. He also scored a header last season FFS. Even you were praising him last year, which is saying something. 

      Downing never had a good season under us, so I don't know what you're talking about.

      I never said Downing had a good season. Never. In fact, if you read the post again, you'll see I never said any of those players had good seasons. I said they all IMPROVED in their second seasons. And they did. Like Henderson, Downing's second season, was a definite improvement over the year before. 3 goals and 5 assists in the league (5 and 9 in all competitions), but beyond that he was good playing on the right and linked up well with and covered for Johnson. Would never have him back here, but he improved.
      Alfie2510
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #561: Jul 27, 2014 05:12:45 pm
      He's a mid table keeper no way should he be our no 1
      AZPatriot
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #562: Jul 27, 2014 06:08:21 pm
      He's a mid table keeper no way should he be our no 1

      Pepe was a mid-table keeper when he came from Villarreal so what is the point?

      He has amazing physical skills and shot-stopping ability, he also has a lot of things to work on (distribution and commanding the defense) which are things that can be taught.

      Having some sort of stable defense (which we did not have last season might also help our GK number...:)
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #563: Jul 27, 2014 06:30:09 pm
      He's a mid table keeper no way should he be our no 1

      Stupid comment on so many levels.

      Ever tried the theory that a defence consisting of fairly unreliable central defenders has contributed to the arguments we are having over Mignolet AND Reina? But no. The myths surrounding players like Skrtel who can 'go into a Burger King, order a big mac and get one' is good enough to save them from criticism for goals conceded even though he is about as trustworthy on the ball and in communicating with his goalkeeper as Charles Manson is with a gun.
      Alfie2510
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #564: Jul 27, 2014 06:42:08 pm
      Stupid comment on so many levels.

      Ever tried the theory that a defence consisting of fairly unreliable central defenders has contributed to the arguments we are having over Mignolet AND Reina? But no. The myths surrounding players like Skrtel who can 'go into a Burger King, order a big mac and get one' is good enough to save them from criticism for goals conceded even though he is about as trustworthy on the ball and in communicating with his goalkeeper as Charles Manson is with a gun.


      I criticised Skrtel in this forum last season and got absolute pelters for it I'm well aware of his deficiencies. But your argument can be swinged the other way ; it's Mignolet's lack of presence, command, communication skills and distribution that instills uncertainty in those in front of him....
      HScRed1
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #565: Jul 27, 2014 08:48:24 pm

      I criticised Skrtel in this forum last season and got absolute pelters for it I'm well aware of his deficiencies. But your argument can be swinged the other way ; it's Mignolet's lack of presence, command, communication skills and distribution that instills uncertainty in those in front of him....


      I see it Clearly now all the defensive problems last season were down to Mignolet.......!!
      federer
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #566: Jul 28, 2014 07:25:51 am
      What do you suggest 'we'  do about it then Fed?   I'm sure Fishpie, Stuey and the others who have commented on Migs are infering that because he may be more settled in his second season the obvious nerves he had will be lessened and we may well see the keeper Brendan thinks he did when he bought him.

      Sorry mate but I just don't buy that.  If you could think of the one thing in the world that would calm the nerves of a new keeper and inject him with confidence, what do you think it would be?

      Because it actually happened.  We were up 1-0 and Walters stepped up to take a penalty and Mignolet stopped it.  Everyone swarmed him and he looked like the f**king Hulk after he stopped that.  He was on top of the world.  There's nothing that could have given him more confidence than that.

      And yet.... it didn't last.  He went back into his shell, looked shaky any time a cross came in, flapped at corners like it was going out of style etc.  What more do you want?  what more confidence do you need than the entire city of Liverpool worshiping you for stopping Walters' penalty in the first game of the season?   he had all the support of every single LFC supporter around the world.  And it did nothing!

      As for what we should do: the answer is obvious, we need to bring in a keeper to give him competition.  Either Mignolet will step up his game and be the keeper we hope he will be, or he won't, and the other keeper will step up and take over.  After all, it was Rodgers himself who said he wanted serious competition at keeper.  There isn't any right now.  Mignolet didn't have to worry about being dropped.  That shouldn't be the case with any player. 

      But this is not Liverpool Learning Club.  We're not going to drop points just so Mignolet can settle.  He needs to play like a keeper for Liverpool Football Club or he should be dropped, simple as.  Why does everyone want to coddle him, and possibly risk dropping points, just so HE can get better?  We need to be ruthless. 

      I don't know who we should bring in.  It looks like Pepe has burned his bridges.  Lord knows I'm not Pepe's biggest fan as he was really phoning it in the last few seasons before he went off to Napoli but he's a hell of a lot better than Brad Jones and if we had to choose between Mignolet or Pepe I'm not sure there's a clear winner.

      If we're going to get rid of Pepe then we need to bring in someone who is good enough to beat Mignolet to the starting spot.  Vorm would have been a good choice, but he's off to Spurs now.  Guzan is an excellent keeper but I doubt Villa would let us have him.  I would love Begovic and it seems he was an option last summer, I think it might be worth it to give it a go, they've got Butland after all and he's probably tired of sitting the bench.

      I don't know who we should bring in.  But it would be football suicide to not bring in ANYONE of quality and just cross our fingers that Mignolet will up his game this season, because he might not do.
      TeslaPhysics
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #567: Jul 31, 2014 02:53:25 am
      Great saves tonight.  He looked a bit rusty though during the game.
      fishpie
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #568: Jul 31, 2014 07:55:54 am
      Mig Mig Mignolet!
      Come on kid!
      fishpie
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #569: Jul 31, 2014 08:30:50 am
      Miggo Migggo Migggoooo you beautiful Belgium diamond you!!
      crouchinho
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #570: Jul 31, 2014 08:48:03 am
      Pepe who?

      ;)

      Build on this, Simon. Great return.
      federer
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #571: Jul 31, 2014 09:16:29 am
      saving some penalties in a meaningless friendly is nothing compared to saving a REAL, game-saving penalty in the first league game of the season, in your home debut, in your club debut, and having everyone swarm you and worship you.

      and yet that did nothing for his confidence last season.

      so I doubt last night will either.
      AZPatriot
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #572: Jul 31, 2014 09:21:41 am
      saving some penalties in a meaningless friendly is nothing compared to saving a REAL, game-saving penalty in the first league game of the season, in your home debut, in your club debut, and having everyone swarm you and worship you.

      and yet that did nothing for his confidence last season.

      so I doubt last night will either.

       :tosser:
      daveyd
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #573: Jul 31, 2014 10:52:11 am
      saving some penalties in a meaningless friendly is nothing compared to saving a REAL, game-saving penalty in the first league game of the season, in your home debut, in your club debut, and having everyone swarm you and worship you.

      and yet that did nothing for his confidence last season.

      so I doubt last night will either.
      Would rarely agree with you Fed but must be said Pepe or Mig? Pepe all day. Mig is not one to instill confidence in any defence. With Brad as his rival he had fcuk all pressure to perform.
      bazspeedman
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      Re: Simon Mignolet Player Thread
      Reply #574: Jul 31, 2014 11:09:54 am
      Would rarely agree with you Fed but must be said Pepe or Mig? Pepe all day. Mig is not one to instill confidence in any defence. With Brad as his rival he had fcuk all pressure to perform.


      Maybe you have a short memory but Pepe didn't exactly instill a whole lot of confidence his last couple seasons playing for us given the numerous blunders he made. Pepe is not a world class keeper and I don't think he will ever be. Mignolet has the potential to be a world class keeper.

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