Tiago Ilori (Liverpool -> Reading)

I've asked a few times if anyone can think of another centre half of a similar age to Ilori who features regularly at centre half in the Premiership, and there aren't many. That Mcnair lad at the Mancs and Blackstock or whatever he's called have played a few games. Chelsea have used Zuma here and there but only in midfield, other than that I can't think of many. Centre half is a position where you have to be a man, and Ilori isn't that yet.

Good point BM, I was just coming in to ask if anyone could think of another starting Center Half that's as "skinny" as Ilori. I think if he adds some bulk to his frame he's got a great base to build on but he seems a touch sleight of build.

Seriously...

The lad is 22, the same age as Rafael Varane, unless we're going to try and say in the premiership you need to be a man but in La Liga you can be a boy, pathetic.

Matts Hummels, he's been playing over 30 games a season for Dortmund since he was 20 years old.

Sakho was playing 30+ games for PSG when he was 20.

John Terry was playing 30+ games a year for Chelsea when he was 20.

Gary Cahill playing 30+ games when he was 21 for Bolton.

What a crock of sh*t. If you're good enough, you're old enough and Ilori has been putting in the stats to suggest he's far in advance of the 'man' Lovren who was the worst CB in the league, he should be given the chance his efforts and loyalty deserve, simple as that!

(Oh btw, they were just the first ones that came into my head that I checked, I suspect there's many, many more.)

Seriously...

The lad is 22, the same age as Rafael Varane, unless we're going to try and say in the premiership you need to be a man but in La Liga you can be a boy, pathetic.

Matts Hummels, he's been playing over 30 games a season for Dortmund since he was 20 years old.

Sakho was playing 30+ games for PSG when he was 20.

John Terry was playing 30+ games a year for Chelsea when he was 20.

Gary Cahill playing 30+ games when he was 21 for Bolton.

What a crock of sh*t. If you're good enough, you're old enough and Ilori has been putting in the stats to suggest he's far in advance of the 'man' Lovren who was the worst CB in the league, he should be given the chance his efforts and loyalty deserve, simple as that!

(Oh btw, they were just the first ones that came into my head that I checked, I suspect there's many, many more.)

Don't know if this was in response to me, Mick or both but my point has nothing to do with his age and everything to do with his physical makeup.

Don't know if this was in response to me, Mick or both but my point has nothing to do with his age and everything to do with his physical makeup.

Clearly Mick's ridiculous statement that is based purely on his bias for Lovren to prove him right rather than the success of the team. Anyone wanting us to improve wants the best players in the team right now, Lovren is at the bottom of the pile of CBs and needs to work his way up. Ilori has had a successful (judging by the ratings, reviews from those that have watched him and the stats that back up those reviews) time at Bordeaux and should be given his chance.

Thankfully there has been plenty of talk about him getting his chance in pre-season as is only right.

In reference to his size then there was a recent picture of him compared to the year before and he's put on plenty of bulk. He's now comparable to Varane, not quite his bulk yet but getting there (both 1.9m in height roughly).

(He also just played in the U21 against Harry Kane and Danny Ings, apparently had no trouble at all, I didn't watch it though so just going off what I heard).

Seriously...

The lad is 22, the same age as Rafael Varane, unless we're going to try and say in the premiership you need to be a man but in La Liga you can be a boy, pathetic.

Matts Hummels, he's been playing over 30 games a season for Dortmund since he was 20 years old.

Sakho was playing 30+ games for PSG when he was 20.

John Terry was playing 30+ games a year for Chelsea when he was 20.

Gary Cahill playing 30+ games when he was 21 for Bolton.

What a crock of sh*t. If you're good enough, you're old enough and Ilori has been putting in the stats to suggest he's far in advance of the 'man' Lovren who was the worst CB in the league, he should be given the chance his efforts and loyalty deserve, simple as that!

(Oh btw, they were just the first ones that came into my head that I checked, I suspect there's many, many more.)

Cahill was still at Villa when he was 21 and he sure as sh*t wasn't averaging 30+ games a season. Other than that though I do agree with your sentiment, if you're good enough you're old enough and considering the fact that we've been a shambles defensively it's not like the people ahead of him are there on merit. The lad should be given his chance.

Oh and you lost me on your whole "his efforts and loyalty deserve" tangent Luke you'd swear Ilori just turned down Juventus and not Sunderland.

Seriously...

The lad is 22, the same age as Rafael Varane, unless we're going to try and say in the premiership you need to be a man but in La Liga you can be a boy, pathetic.

Matts Hummels, he's been playing over 30 games a season for Dortmund since he was 20 years old.

Sakho was playing 30+ games for PSG when he was 20.

John Terry was playing 30+ games a year for Chelsea when he was 20.

Gary Cahill playing 30+ games when he was 21 for Bolton.

What a crock of sh*t. If you're good enough, you're old enough and Ilori has been putting in the stats to suggest he's far in advance of the 'man' Lovren who was the worst CB in the league, he should be given the chance his efforts and loyalty deserve, simple as that!

(Oh btw, they were just the first ones that came into my head that I checked, I suspect there's many, many more.)

Cahill was still at Villa when he was 21 and he sure as sh*t wasn't averaging 30+ games a season. Other than that though I do agree with your sentiment, if you're good enough you're old enough and considering the fact that we've been a shambles defensively it's not like the people ahead of him are there on merit. The lad should be given his chance.

Oh and you lost me on your whole "his efforts and loyalty deserve" tangent Luke you'd swear Ilori just turned down Juventus and not Sunderland.

Cahill was still at Villa when he was 21 and he sure as sh*t wasn't averaging 30+ games a season. Other than that though I do agree with your sentiment, if you're good enough you're old enough and considering the fact that we've been a shambles defensively it's not like the people ahead of him are there on merit. The lad should be given his chance.

Oh and you lost me on your whole "his efforts and loyalty deserve" tangent Luke you'd swear Ilori just turned down Juventus and not Sunderland.

I've no argument with the "good enough if old enough" comment mate, neither am I wed to any of our centre halves who have by and large, been poor. I do think however that as we are looking to solve the various cracks in our team, we should do it with a clear head. We made many changes to the team and squad last summer, and we are about to this time too. We ought to be careful though of throwing the baby out with the bath water. Of course it could be that Ilori is a Varane waiting to happen, or a Terry, or even a Cahill, but I think the fact one of those is probably the best young centre half in the world and plays in a different league, while the other two were Ilori's age many years ago does illustrate that it isn't easy to do it a young age, particularly in the Premiership.

Our first choice centre half pairing is likely to be Skrtel and Sakho, with the future captain and Toure bringing up the rear. Wisdom if he sticks around can play there too, and I can't help thinking Ilori would benefit from one more season on loan. If we could persuade someone in the Premiership to take him and actually play him that would be ideal, but like I said it's difficult. Bringing him back though only to discover that half a season at Bordeaux and a couple of appearances in an under 21 tournament didn't actually prepare him for life in the Premiership at a top club would be plain silly. All that would happen would be he'd rot on the bench, no point in that.   

Cahill was still at Villa when he was 21 and he sure as sh*t wasn't averaging 30+ games a season. Other than that though I do agree with your sentiment, if you're good enough you're old enough and considering the fact that we've been a shambles defensively it's not like the people ahead of him are there on merit. The lad should be given his chance.

Oh and you lost me on your whole "his efforts and loyalty deserve" tangent Luke you'd swear Ilori just turned down Juventus and not Sunderland.

Cahill yeah I should have said 22 when he was at Bolton and averaging 30 games plus, the point still stands as that is the same age as Ilori.

As for loyalty, after being shipped out for 2 years on loan most people would be looking for a secure first team opportunity rather than being farmed out all over the place, so I think he deserves credit for that. His efforts is simply how well he's been playing, he deserves recognition for the quality of performances he's been putting in and therefore should be rewarded with a chance.

He's gone a long way to proving he's good enough, trying to use his age as a reason why he shouldn't be starting at 22 is an unfair and stupid statement.

Cahill yeah I should have said 22 when he was at Bolton and averaging 30 games plus, the point still stands as that is the same age as Ilori.

As for loyalty, after being shipped out for 2 years on loan most people would be looking for a secure first team opportunity rather than being farmed out all over the place, so I think he deserves credit for that. His efforts is simply how well he's been playing, he deserves recognition for the quality of performances he's been putting in and therefore should be rewarded with a chance.

He's gone a long way to proving he's good enough, trying to use his age as a reason why he shouldn't be starting at 22 is an unfair and stupid statement.

It's not his age, but his quality. If we'll keep making experiments we'll finish around midtable.

I've no argument with the "good enough if old enough" comment mate, neither am I wed to any of our centre halves who have by and large, been poor. I do think however that as we are looking to solve the various cracks in our team, we should do it with a clear head. We made many changes to the team and squad last summer, and we are about to this time too. We ought to be careful though of throwing the baby out with the bath water. Of course it could be that Ilori is a Varane waiting to happen, or a Terry, or even a Cahill, but I think the fact one of those is probably the best young centre half in the world and plays in a different league, while the other two were Ilori's age many years ago does illustrate that it isn't easy to do it a young age, particularly in the Premiership.

Our first choice centre half pairing is likely to be Skrtel and Sakho, with the future captain and Toure bringing up the rear. Wisdom if he sticks around can play there too, and I can't help thinking Ilori would benefit from one more season on loan. If we could persuade someone in the Premiership to take him and actually play him that would be ideal, but like I said it's difficult. Bringing him back though only to discover that half a season at Bordeaux and a couple of appearances in an under 21 tournament didn't actually prepare him for life in the Premiership at a top club would be plain silly. All that would happen would be he'd rot on the bench, no point in that.   

It's very difficult to disagree with you Mick because you do make a good point and playing Ilori for the sake of playing him doesn't really help us but the lad didn't come cheap and coming off 2 years away and a decent u21 tournament now would be as good a time as any to see whether or not he is in fact good enough.

Like you said there is a long line of people ahead of him in the pecking order but we shouldn't have them there just of their names. They should all be starting pre-season on an even playing field and they should earn the right to play.
I'm sure he's not any worse than Kolo or last season's Lovren and with no offence to André, Tiago should be ahead of him too. Just my 2 cents though Mick.

Cahill yeah I should have said 22 when he was at Bolton and averaging 30 games plus, the point still stands as that is the same age as Ilori.

As for loyalty, after being shipped out for 2 years on loan most people would be looking for a secure first team opportunity rather than being farmed out all over the place, so I think he deserves credit for that. His efforts is simply how well he's been playing, he deserves recognition for the quality of performances he's been putting in and therefore should be rewarded with a chance.

He's gone a long way to proving he's good enough, trying to use his age as a reason why he shouldn't be starting at 22 is an unfair and stupid statement.

I see you've made your mind up entirely Luke and I respect that. I want to see him given the opportunity simply because whatever the hell we're doing now doesn't benefit us or the player.

Its a pity about his latest injury, but his performance in the pilot episode of the tv show "Mr Robot" was excellent 

As far as I see it, we're not going to know if he's up to it until he's had a chance.

Same goes for a lot of the younger players.  Theres a few in the youth team, as well as Wisdom, even the likes of Markovic and Ibe haven't had a proper go of it yet.

It'll always take time and they're bound to make mistakes, however I feel these guys have the ability as long as they get the chances and have the support they need.

As far as I see it, we're not going to know if he's up to it until he's had a chance.

Same goes for a lot of the younger players.  Theres a few in the youth team, as well as Wisdom, even the likes of Markovic and Ibe haven't had a proper go of it yet.

It'll always take time and they're bound to make mistakes, however I feel these guys have the ability as long as they get the chances and have the support they need.

Can't argue with any of that mate. My only real concern (and this applies not to Ilori alone, we have as you say many other young players waiting in the wings) is that we lose sight of what the task ahead actually is. We have essentially got to find between 8-15 points in order to be competitive, and we aren't going to do that by "finding out about" youngsters and experimenting around. I personally would totally recommend starting with our first choice centre half pairing of Sakho and Skrtel, and as such Ilori is going to start off on the bench. I think as a young centre back he needs regular football, and as such we should loan him out again.   

Can't argue with any of that mate. My only real concern (and this applies not to Ilori alone, we have as you say many other young players waiting in the wings) is that we lose sight of what the task ahead actually is. We have essentially got to find between 8-15 points in order to be competitive, and we aren't going to do that by "finding out about" youngsters and experimenting around. I personally would totally recommend starting with our first choice centre half pairing of Sakho and Skrtel, and as such Ilori is going to start off on the bench. I think as a young centre back he needs regular football, and as such we should loan him out again.   

If he's not going to play, you're correct, it would be sensible to loan him out again as he wouldn't be able to progress. However there's going to be chances in the Europa league I'd have thought.

You're also correct in that we can't chuck all the youngsters in at once. It wouldn't be fair to them and would probably not be great for the team.

Back to Ilori.. What if we play 3 cbs again? I'd imagine it won't happen, but who would you play as the third cb if this is how we set up. I think I'd honestly be inclined to select him as the third choice. Not every game perhaps, but I'd give him a shot I think.

If he's not going to play, you're correct, it would be sensible to loan him out again as he wouldn't be able to progress. However there's going to be chances in the Europa league I'd have thought.

You're also correct in that we can't chuck all the youngsters in at once. It wouldn't be fair to them and would probably not be great for the team.

Back to Ilori.. What if we play 3 cbs again? I'd imagine it won't happen, but who would you play as the third cb if this is how we set up. I think I'd honestly be inclined to select him as the third choice. Not every game perhaps, but I'd give him a shot I think.

Yep, if we go three centre halves you'd have thought his reputed searing pace would come in handy.

Its a pity about his latest injury, but his performance in the pilot episode of the tv show "Mr Robot" was excellent 

Well played

Just watched it last night, good show.

Ilori looking good against Sweden in this final.

Ilori looking good against Sweden in this final.

He's looked good all tournament to be fair mate.

He's looked good all tournament to be fair mate.

First I've been able to see of him this tournament, he deals really well with crosses and is comfortable with the ball at his feet.

He's looked good all tournament to be fair mate.

Good to hear Debs, got high hopes for the lad.

Good to hear Debs, got high hopes for the lad.

Same here Luke.

First I've been able to see of him this tournament, he deals really well with crosses and is comfortable with the ball at his feet.

His speed to the ball is useful too mate. 

Same here Luke.

His speed to the ball is useful too mate. 

Yep, he never looks too flustered, because he knows he can catch pretty much anyone if he has too.

Yep, he never looks too flustered, because he knows he can catch pretty much anyone if he has too.

He doesn't mate.  I wonder if he takes a pen as one of the 5?