"We Need To Talk About Gerrard."

The time has come to debate this properly as his midfield partner seems to be getting most of the blame for our problems in midfield despite being the better of the two and almost carrying Steven tonight.

Lucas was all over midfield and in the first half had the most passes of any player on the pitch with 89% successful while also pressing them high up the picth and making challenges on thier centre backs and probably no wonder he was knackered come 60 minute.

Gerrard in the last couple of games has offered nothing and seems to stoll about the pitch with very little influence on our game despite the odd excellent pass which he will always have i his locker.

This isn't a witch hunt against the skipper as I thought he played well early on in the season and also Lucas hasn't been at his very best all season but if we are going to question one player then I don't see any valid reason the other player should be absolved of any criticism even if he is Steven Gerrard.

No, we don't.

No, we don't.

Fair enough.

I don't expect to see you post back in here then.

But I think it may be, or already is, a big problem.

Seemed like he couldn't be bothered to me, Grandad Giggs was all over him in his desire to win.

As has been said many times before Stevie had never been the most technical player but his athleticism and drive has covered his shortcomings. Unfortunately Father Time waits for no one!

Love Stevie to bits but it's obvious he can't play the role next to Lucas or maybe even every game.

I certainly think he's undroppable (if that's a word) and that in itself is a problem. Part of the problem is definitely his stamina and to get the most out of that he shouldn't be playing as much as he does.

I was quick to criticise him last season and it turned out being a cracking year for Stevie in terms of performances, but I would still stand by that early in the season slump he had. Perhaps now the old legs need a bit longer to get up to speed.

As has rightly been said though, while he isn't a vocal captain, he needs to be leading by example and that hasn't shown for a long time now. I said it in the Lucas thread and will say it here, Lucas is currently harder to replace than Gerrard, that's clearly down to our poor squad strength but while the skipper isn't playing up to standard he should sit out a game, I just don't think Brendan would have the balls to rest him in a league game.

As has been said many times before Stevie had never been the most technical player

Disagree with this as his technique is as good as any player.

It's his ability to play the role he is and whether he has enough legs to play it properly because as it stands he simply doesn't judging by the last few games.

He's obviously not the player he was but anybody who is not happy that there isn't any box to box for 90 minutes entwined with 30 yard strikes every other game needs to give their head a wobble. He won't do that anymore but there is an offensive player that would be of benefit to this squad still.

Yes, he should be utilised due to his age but should he be played as a conservative DM? Definitely not. He's not the player he was but there is still a player there and in my opinion his last playing years are being wasted where he is.

I certainly think he's undroppable (if that's a word) and that in itself is a problem.

This is a major part of the problem.

I don't see why he is, or should be, undroppable but unless some evidence comes along in the coming weeks he definitely is.

I'd be willing to bet the manager simply will not drop him and if anything Lucas will be one to miss out if he makes a change here. He doesn't have the balls to leave him out.

I was quick to criticise him last season and it turned out being a cracking year for Stevie in terms of performances, but I would still stand by that early in the season slump he had. Perhaps now the old legs need a bit longer to get up to speed.

I was the same Luke but also I had him as one of our top three players as the season went on. I don't criticise Steven Gerrard lightly as we all know he can make us look silly but as well as addig some balance I do think his role has to be questioned. He was as poor as I can remember tonight and I'm sure he'll be playing come Sunday.

That is a problem.

Agree with whoever said it in the match thread, Steven Gerrard is wasted in a deep midfield position. We don't have creative quality apart from Coutinho in the attacking midfield position, push Stevie higher up and let him regain his deadly scoring form. He's still got it IMO, if fat Frank can still do it then so can Stevie. We have plenty of engine players that can sit deep, retain possession and dictate the tempo of the game, Jordan Henderson for starters. Get that tw*t Allen to pull his finger out his arse and start showing a bit of fight for his F***ing place in all.

Agree with whoever said it in the match thread, Steven Gerrard is wasted in a deep midfield position. We don't have creative quality apart from Coutinho in the attacking midfield position, push Stevie higher up and let him regain his deadly scoring form.

Never going to happen while Brendan is manager.

It would have happened long before now if it was.

Totally agree with you Si and as P.D. just suggested in the match thread, it simply wasn't addressed in the Summer, when me, you, probably everybody was screaming we need more in there.

Actually there were some who said we had enough, then there were others like Fed who rightly pointed out we had numbers, just not quality and now it's really hurting us.

I really do just want FSG to do one at the moment.

I don't see why he is, or should be, undroppable but unless some evidence comes along in the coming weeks he definitely is.

Who comes in?

Totally agree with you Si and as P.D. just suggested in the match thread, it simply wasn't addressed in the Summer, when me, you, probably everybody was screaming we need more in there.

Actually there were some who said we had enough, then there were others like Fed who rightly pointed out we had numbers, just not quality and now it's really hurting us.

I really do just want FSG to do one at the moment.

But if we did buy that top quality midfield player what would have been the more prssing issue?

One to push Lucas for his place or one to push Gerrard?

But if we did buy that top quality midfield player what would have been the more prssing issue?

One to push Lucas for his place or one to push Gerrard?

I think we should have bought a player who can cover both roles, they're not too dissimilar that there's isn't a player who can specialise in one but cover for the other. The fact we were never even linked with someone seems to suggest it wasn't a priority.

Who comes in?

That's the other part of the problem mate isn't it and that's the part that hurts the most for me.

Who comes in?

Allen, if fit.

Problem is we've had many years to find a suitable replacement, but haven't come close. I had high hopes for Shelvey, but the over reaction to a couple of bad games put the nail in that coffin, just watch him go at Swansea though!
Henderson is his most likely replacement I guess, but at the min, he's no where near that level.

Allen, if fit.

You want Allen as DM? Okay. He was sh*te at DM last year but Gerrard had his best season for sometime there.

Sounds a bit like an answer just to suit an argument that Si.

You want Allen as DM? Okay. He was sh*te at DM last year but Gerrard had his best season for sometime there.

Sounds a bit like an answer just to suit an argument that Si.

No mate.

I'd play Lucas as the DM and have Allen in his best position. The one that just happens to be Gerrard's position.

The manager bought Allen for the role and said as much when he was a bit off form playing deeper. 'Allen is best in the next one forward in midfield' was someting like the quote he used.

If Lucas is the fall guy then so be it and the manager should make the call but I'd still play Allen ahead of Gerrard and let Stevie do what he seems to want to after recent evidence. Sit in front of the back four and pass the ball around.

I'd have no problem with that if it solved the problem in midfield.

The problem with Gerrard is the same with any player; if he has no competition for his place and he knows he'll play every match then he isn't being pushed to reach his optimal level in every match. It doesn't matter who he is or what he has achieved; he needs the motivation to reach his best levels by being pushed.

We have no genuine quality midfielders whatsoever to replace Lucas and Gerrard. That's the major problem with both.

Lucas with Henderson just ahead is an option but we would need a proper creative player as the final one in the three if we used this.

Lucas is the best DM we have as he covers ground better than Gerrard, covers the defenders better and is better at moving the ball from defense to attack. Gerrard has the more obvious killer ball and range of passing but Lucas just moves the ball more effeciently.

Henderson would provide the box to box energy and is more capable of covering gorund to help Lucas in defense while having the energy to get forward.

As I said the problem with this is Hendo's lack of craetivity and you need a Coutinho to make the best of this three.

Lucas
                     Henderson

Coutinho

Stevie looks tired at the min to be honest. Don't think its a motivational thing as he lives for Liverpool, maybe its just getting near to that day we prayed would never come!
More likely however, he will score a hat trick against Sunderland, and this topic will become more positive.

Just want to say I think Gerrard is great.  Nothing more needs saying really.

Forgot to thank Racer for the title.

Nice one.

Just want to say I think Gerrard was great.  Nothing more needs saying really.

Fixed.