"We Need To Talk About Gerrard."

Let's put it this way, I'd rather have Gerrard with all his age related shortcomings on the pitch, than Henderson or Allen.

He was playing deeper again today wasn't he, offering bags of space to Bournemouth players at times?

He was terrible against Bournemouth.  He was terrible against United.  He was terrible against Sunderland.  And he was terrible against Basel. 

I felt for the majority of the game, he was in Lucas' way and whenever he occupied that deeper space it seemed to have confused Lucas, thus resulting in both players in the same position. It just looked so wrong and unbalanced. One or the other should have been supporting the attackers when we had possession, It's as if Rodgers told both to sit to protect the 3 center backs? :S

I felt for the majority of the game, he was in Lucas' way and whenever he occupied that deeper space it seemed to have confused Lucas, thus resulting in both players in the same position. It just looked so wrong and unbalanced. One or the other should have been supporting the attackers when we had possession, It's as if Rodgers told both to sit to protect the 3 center backs? :S

Playing wing backs you need that cover from midfield however as you have pointed out Gerrard just seemed to get in Lucas's way as it is not natural to him.

Must have been watching a different game last night because I thought he was boss. Good response to being invisible on Sunday.

Let's put it this way, I'd rather have Gerrard with all his age related shortcomings on the pitch, than Henderson or Allen.

How about none of them play? When we have Can or Lucas who can play that DM position, and we can field Couts, Markovic, Llalana and Sterling ahead, why do we need any of them? Hendo is a maybe, purely because he won't be playing out of position and he will be doing the donkey work in pressing teams. He has the energy to get back to defend and get up to assist/score occasionally as well. But it just does not make footballing sense to be starting with Gerrard so often. Team needs balance and people playing in position, and that's been one of our maajor issues this season.

Considering BR's comment recently on what a great leader Stevie's been through this tough time, I can't help but feel he is playing less for football reasons and more for the fact that his leadership is needed right now. But we really need to take the rose tinted glasses off when it comes to Gerrard, he will offer a lot more in the AM role when he comes off the bench.

Must have been watching a different game last night because I thought he was boss. Good response to being invisible on Sunday.

Imperious and got a standing ovation off the home crowd when he came off. Barely put a foot wrong and hit a number of trademark passes, top player top performance.

Imperious and got a standing ovation off the home crowd when he came off. Barely put a foot wrong and hit a number of trademark passes, top player top performance.

Not sure I understood why he got criticised last night.
Sometimes himself and Lucas seemed to get in each others way,
but then it might just be adapting to different roles.

Imperious and got a standing ovation off the home crowd when he came off. Barely put a foot wrong and hit a number of trademark passes, top player top performance.

Much better than his last few games but I wouldn't call his performance imperious.

I thought he played well. Makes a huge difference when he has someone running channels, making intelligent runs and attacking space. Suddenly Stevie had a bit of freedom to play. It is only when he is surrounded by static players (particularly up front) that we see the skipper really struggle. I would strongly suggest FSG pull their finger out and revise this contract offer because they have clearly fooked it up. Unfortunately I don't think he will sign it. We will regret it if he goes.

I thought he played well. Makes a huge difference when he has someone running channels, making intelligent runs and attacking space. Suddenly Stevie had a bit of freedom to play. It is only when he is surrounded by static players (particularly up front) that we see the skipper really struggle. I would strongly suggest FSG pull their finger out and revise this contract offer because they have clearly fooked it up. Unfortunately I don't think he will sign it. We will regret it if he goes.

In some ways it's probably best if he leaves as Rodgers feels he needs to play him beyond his capabilities.
At least we can then move forward rather than the "how do you manage Stevie to get the best out of him".The reality being he is past his best and should be treated like any other player.

What was that phrase by Bob Paisley "let them lose their legs on some one else's pitch".

In some ways it's probably best if he leaves as Rodgers feels he needs to play him beyond his capabilities.
At least we can then move forward rather than the "how do you manage Stevie to get the best out of him".The reality being he is past his best and should be treated like any other player.

What was that phrase by Bob Paisley "let them lose their legs on some one else's pitch".

At 34 yrs he's making 24yr old players like Henderson, Allen and  Llalana look mediocre mate . Not one of them can grab the game by the scruff of the neck unlike Gerrard who still can .

At 34 yrs he's making 24yr old players like Henderson, Allen and  Llalana look mediocre mate . Not one of them can grab the game by the scruff of the neck unlike Gerrard who still can .

When was the last time Gerrard grabbed a game by the scruff and a free kick v Basel does not count.
Last night we were probably the most fluent in attack since Spurs with Raheem, Lallana, Markovic and Coutinho leading the line and Gerrard had minimal impact.

Club have screwed up not having a ready made replacement CM because as you say Allen and Henderson are not able. Lallana is a different sort of player to Gerrard.

He is still the best player at the club but you could count on the fingers of Captain Hook's left hand how many times he has been the best player on the pitch this season.

When was the last time Gerrard grabbed a game by the scruff and a free kick v Basel does not count.
Last night we were probably the most fluent in attack since Spurs with Raheem, Lallana, Markovic and Coutinho leading the line and Gerrard had minimal impact.

Club have screwed up not having a ready made replacement CM because as you say Allen and Henderson are not able. Lallana is a different sort of player to Gerrard.

Bournemouth didn't give too much difficulties last night but come the weekend it will be back to the same old sh*t and to lay the blame at Gerrards door for our midfield frailties is crazy . I won't deny he has lost his pace but he still has a killer ball and if the other fuckwits found where the net is we'd be singing his praises for his deadly ball .

How about none of them play? When we have Can or Lucas who can play that DM position, and we can field Couts, Markovic, Llalana and Sterling ahead, why do we need any of them? Hendo is a maybe, purely because he won't be playing out of position and he will be doing the donkey work in pressing teams. He has the energy to get back to defend and get up to assist/score occasionally as well. But it just does not make footballing sense to be starting with Gerrard so often. Team needs balance and people playing in position, and that's been one of our maajor issues this season.

Considering BR's comment recently on what a great leader Stevie's been through this tough time, I can't help but feel he is playing less for football reasons and more for the fact that his leadership is needed right now. But we really need to take the rose tinted glasses off when it comes to Gerrard, he will offer a lot more in the AM role when he comes off the bench.

I don't think that Coutinho and Lallana together is such a good idea. They don't seem to work that well as a pair. I'd have one of them and Lucas and Can. Sterling and Markovic should be up front, but wide, with a proper striker.

How many times over his career have we said the words "what a ball from Gerrard" ?

Can honestly say only 2 players in the current team apart from G can play that pass and that's Lallana and Couts.

Stevie deserves to stay as long as he can pull out those passes and he's still our best FK and Penalty taker we have.

don't think that Coutinho and Lallana together is such a good idea. They don't seem to work that well as a pair. I'd have one of them and Lucas and Can. Sterling and Markovic should be up front, but wide, with a proper striker.

It's a fair point mate.

How many times over his career have we said the words "what a ball from Gerrard" ? Can honestly say only 2 players in the current team apart from G can play that pass and that's Lallana and Couts.Stevie deserves to stay as long as he can pull out those passes and he's still our best FK and Penalty taker we have.

I'm sorry mate, at the risk of sounding anti-Stevie, I don't think a few top class passes a game should merit a starting place. I completely agree, in terms of passing, he's still one of the best in the world. Unfortunately, that part of his game is negated by the fact that the opposition just man mark him and don't allow him time and space to make the pass. The deep-lying position he often plays means he finds himself being pressed very quickly in dangerous positions, and that has cost os this season where he has lost the ball in some very risky positions.

The fact that he can't tackle as well as Lucas means he simply shouldn't be a DM, there is no advantage to the team. AM is his best position, and with our array of attacking midfield youngsters, it's time to use him more sparingly. I think BR is using him becuase he is the captain and provides some leadership and stability to a side shot in confidence, but it's time to take off the shackles and start a new era without the legend. We shouldn't be afraid.

Do you think he still wants a bigger part to play in the team?

Do you think he is reluctant to drop to the bench or to come off on a regular basis?

Is this the reason why he hasn't signed ?

He has suffered his whole career from a lack of game intelligence; no-one can last remember when he grabbed a game by the scruff of the neck.

He only appears able to contribute positively when there are world class players providing movement ahead of him.
and his defensive lapses can only be covered up by surrounding him with players who can do his running and tackling.

An occasional pass or dead-ball strike doesn't make up for those deficiencies in my book; it's also hard to justify 180k per week wages for that output.

I don't mind him staying at the club but he should be used as a bit-part player in my opinion, coming on for the last twenty to thirty minutes of a game.

Unlike our nasty owners, of course, he is a legend only interested in the love of the club and not money but I would still be happy to see him get an 60k per week contract.

I'm sorry mate, at the risk of sounding anti-Stevie, I don't think a few top class passes a game should merit a starting place. I completely agree, in terms of passing, he's still one of the best in the world. Unfortunately, that part of his game is negated by the fact that the opposition just man mark him and don't allow him time and space to make the pass. The deep-lying position he often plays means he finds himself being pressed very quickly in dangerous positions, and that has cost os this season where he has lost the ball in some very risky positions.

that isn't completely true though, it's lazy to suggest other teams simply man mark him and that's that. they have been able to do it this season because of the complete lack of pace and movement up front. Get pace, movement and ability in front of him and he is still a terrific player.

When was the last time Gerrard grabbed a game by the scruff and a free kick v Basel does not count.
Last night we were probably the most fluent in attack since Spurs with Raheem, Lallana, Markovic and Coutinho leading the line and Gerrard had minimal impact.

Club have screwed up not having a ready made replacement CM because as you say Allen and Henderson are not able. Lallana is a different sort of player to Gerrard.

But he doesn't have to does he? Does he have to be the Stevie G of old? With the right players around and ahead of him he is still far and away our best midfielder and one of the best in the League.

Lampard has done very well at City this season but imagine the impact a player like Gerrard would have in that side. For the many who seem to be wishing the skipper away next season, just think about that.

that isn't completely true though, it's lazy to suggest other teams simply man mark him and that's that. they have been able to do it this season because of the complete lack of pace and movement up front. Get pace, movement and ability in front of him and he is still a terrific player.

That's certainly a factor mate, but he is slower. It's also a bit lazy to suggest it's simply down to lack of movement up front, (cheeky reversal on you there , it's a bit of both. No doubt he'll offer more once Studge comes back, but enough? Not on the evidence I've seen this season.

And even last year when so many things clicked, the amount of goals we scored mitigated the defensive frailties, and one of the factors contributing to that was a lack of proper DM. We got out of jail becuase of SAS a lot, but we're not in any danger of outscoring opponents anytime soon; it should never be a sustainable game plan anyway.

Really believe it's time to start playing a more balanced team.

That's certainly a factor mate, but he is slower. It's also a bit lazy to suggest it's simply down to lack of movement up front, (cheeky reversal on you there , it's a bit of both. No doubt he'll offer more once Studge comes back, but enough? Not on the evidence I've seen this season.

But is he really much slower than he was in May when he was performing so well? I'm not saying he hasn't lost his legs in many ways, he can still run in a straight line and get up a head of speed but he is a big lad and he can be made to look quite cumbersome on the turn BUT he is still comfortably the best passer of a football at the club, and I don't just mean the long raking 40 yard cross frield balls, I mean every single pass. His intermediate passing and the ease at which he makes it look is completely overlooked by many because he makes it look so easy.

The club should be figuring out the best way to get the best out of Gerrard because we are not going to find that passing range and vision in players like Emre Can or Jordan Henderson (maybe if we'd splashed £50 million on Paul Pogba in the summer - that's what I wanted the club to do). If that means getting a DM who can run and close (think Makalele) then go and get one. If it means having a couple of players alongside him who can run all day then get them. I think every Red will regret it if the skipper is allowed to leave and ply his trade for a season or two at one of the other top sides in the division.

And even last year when so many things clicked, the amount of goals we scored mitigated the defensive frailties, and one of the factors contributing to that was a lack of proper DM. We got out of jail becuase of SAS a lot, but we're not in any danger of outscoring opponents anytime soon; it should never be a sustainable game plan anyway.

The DM position is just one factor and it's one that has some merit BUT I could name a bunch of other factors:

- The full-backs are encouraged to get high and wide too early
- The full-backs don't prevent crosses particularly well. The two Spanish lads we have brought in this season are a million miles off it.
- We can't defend set pieces, we ball watch and don't attack the ball
- Brendan couldn't buy a decent centre-half if you gave him £20 million to do it. Wait a minute......
- I don't think enough scrutiny, attention to detail and scrutiny is paid to our defending and with that in mind, would a decent DM really have much impact on the ridiculous errors we have seen from Skrtel, Sackho, Lovren, Toure and co over the past 18 months? Maybe some impact but a big impact? I'm not so sure
- Going back to my point on scrutiny, how do you think Mourinho would have reacted to Coutinho's failure to track the run of Rooney at the weekend for their first goal? He would have gone ballistic, probably would have called him out the same way he has done to Hazzard. I just don't think it (as in defending) gets that level of attention at Melwood

- The full-backs are encouraged to get high and wide too early
- The full-backs don't prevent crosses particularly well. The two Spanish lads we have brought in this season are a million miles off it.
- We can't defend set pieces, we ball watch and don't attack the ball
- Brendan couldn't buy a decent centre-half if you gave him £20 million to do it. Wait a minute......
- I don't think enough scrutiny, attention to detail and scrutiny is paid to our defending and with that in mind, would a decent DM really have much impact on the ridiculous errors we have seen from Skrtel, Sackho, Lovren, Toure and co over the past 18 months? Maybe some impact but a big impact? I'm not so sure
- Going back to my point on scrutiny, how do you think Mourinho would have reacted to Coutinho's failure to track the run of Rooney at the weekend for their first goal? He would have gone ballistic, probably would have called him out the same way he has done to Hazzard. I just don't think it (as in defending) gets that level of attention at Melwood

These I completely agree with, apart from the point about DMs. I think it makes a huge difference. When there is no DM and the defence get exposed regularly. They end up making individual errors because they seem to be managing last minute attempts at desperate tackles. Though I agree, part of it to do with our poor, toothless defending in general.

As for the rest, it's all fair enough mate, just a case of differing opinions on the future of the skipper. Your case is well put. Doesn't change my mind, but I get where you're coming from.