Corners!!!

WHY ARE WE SO sh*t AT DEFENDING THEM???

I watched the game in a pub with one of my United mates and I predicted correctly before the game that if we were to concede a goal in the game it would be from a corner because for as long as I remember, we have looked atrociously bad at defending them.

That was a game there for us to win. United had lost 4-1 to City and we could have put them in further sh*t but for the second game in a row we have conceded a stupid corner and failed to score ourselves. 

Don't forget being shocking at scoring from them!

Agree with fletch_rox.
We never seem to do anything useful from corners. It's almost always easily cleared by the other teams. Bugging. :/

I genuinely don't think we practice attacking or defending from them, we've been notoriously poor for years at corners

Agger lost his man against Soton, Enrique lost his man against moyes utd.

You can practice corners all you like, but when seasoned players play like Sunday league players (apologise to Sunday league players) then there's not much you can do about that, apart from sell them and buy new players

Agger has been dodgy for about 3 seasons now, and I've come to the conclusion that he simply isn't as good as I though he was.

As for being poor at taking them, it's a combination of either a poorly taken corner, or not enough belief that you are going to get on the end of them. Other than that, I have no idea why we are so inept and have been so inept for years but it seriously needs to be sorted out

Zonal Marking likes this 

I reckon corners should be banned...

We can't attack them or defend them.

Our set pieces in general are an embarrassment.

Set pieces in general are a big weakness for us, even with Skrtel and Toure in the team we look poor. 
Not really sure what the answer is short of putting all 11 players in either box
Decent man marking would probably be the best place to start, for example making sure the other teams strikers are covered, unlike last nights bollox!

Hard to disagree with the OP. It's not just corners either, I've been moaning for quite some time that we look vulnerable every time a ball is delivered into the box in the air. I was hoping that with Toure and Sakho on the pitch we'd be stronger in that department but I suppose they can't do it all themselves.

I genuinely think we're the worst set piece team in the Premier League, we're dreadful at attacking and defending corners and free kicks. We've been sh*t at set pieces for years. Only recently has Suarez filled me with a bit of hope when he's taking a direct free kick to score, I think he's one of the best free kick takers around. Other than that we're F***ing terrible.

This is a massive problem we have...

Last night we had 10 Corners to Attack, from that I cannot remeber a goal scoring opportunity from one. You have to ask what is an expected ratio of goals from corners and from looking on a few sites it would appear the chance of scoring from a corner is about 4% (article from Bitter & Blue). So one goal from 20 corners should be expected, yet this is for me a minumum. I would hope that if we have 10 corners a game we should score 1... This is what I would ask from my players...

So why do we conceed so many and score so few..?

Conceeding I beleive to be because we have too many defenders who cant deal with them, Agger and Enrique are very culpable here. We just look worried every time there is a corner, and this will result in us shipping goals. Teams will now target this area and play more balls into the box as they know it is a problem area. We need to be aware of this and turn it into a strength.

Scoring, simple answer here. No one at the club has been able to deliver a ball in a dangerous position concistantly for us in a bloody long time. Our corners always look naff - either first man clears or its to the back of the box / played short to become a normal attack. This was shown yesterday when Sterling took the corner - he looked back at the box as if to ask 'really, me - but I cant take corners' jogged over and played it short. This lack of confidence again breeds poor returns for us. The only player since Hyppia who looks like he can actually attack the ball is Toure, this is also something we need to sort out.

In short, we are just poor all round - we have no confidence for attacking them or defending. This will become a bigger problem as the season goes on unless we can turn this into a strength...

Ah when I saw the title I thought it was about being poo at scoring from or even looking like scoring from corners.

Must be some craic in training games. The defenders probably think here class at defending corners because our corner takers are so s*it at delivering them

Ah when I saw the title I thought it was about being poo at scoring from or even looking like scoring from corners.

Me too. Every time we had a corner last night I said "no chance". Why we even bother taking a corner?

The anomaly there is that we scored from a corner against Utd - although that took two headers (Sturridge to redirect Agger's). 

Ah when I saw the title I thought it was about being poo at scoring from or even looking like scoring from corners.

Must be some craic in training games. The defenders probably think here class at defending corners because our corner takers are so s*it at delivering them

Bloody hell you might be onto something there :-)
Seriously though this is what managers and coaches are paid to fix, they are surely supposed to improve a team in the areas which need improving, otherwise what is the f'ing point of them?

The defenders probably think here class at defending corners...

Hate it when players start to think that they are world class. They stop working hard in training and take their starting places for granted. Like a certain Fernando huh?

Hard to disagree with the OP. It's not just corners either, I've been moaning for quite some time that we look vulnerable every time a ball is delivered into the box in the air. I was hoping that with Toure and Sakho on the pitch we'd be stronger in that department but I suppose they can't do it all themselves.

Similar thoughts to myself, I'm now hoping that as an understanding between them develops we'll improve defending aerially.

It's not just defending the bloody things though, we don't ever seem to threaten from them either!

Ah when I saw the title I thought it was about being poo at scoring from or even looking like scoring from corners.

Must be some craic in training games. The defenders probably think here class at defending corners because our corner takers are so s*it at delivering them

Weird that, considering Gerrard delivers an excellent ball most of the time from free kicks near hte edge of the box and further back. Perhaps because he can swing it in behind the defensive line and have them running back to get a head on it, whereas from a corner the defence is set and can come to attack the ball.

Apart from the odd few we play short we play the same corner all the time no imagination  at all to them

Don't forget being shocking at scoring from them!

Ah when I saw the title I thought it was about being poo at scoring from or even looking like scoring from corners.

Must be some craic in training games. The defenders probably think here class at defending corners because our corner takers are so s*it at delivering them

This

We're sh*te at scoring from them as well.

Hard to disagree with the OP. It's not just corners either, I've been moaning for quite some time that we look vulnerable every time a ball is delivered into the box in the air. I was hoping that with Toure and Sakho on the pitch we'd be stronger in that department but I suppose they can't do it all themselves.

Not unreasonable to suppose that one or two opposing managers have picked up on this particular Achilles Heel and take advantage with the dead ball situations.
The mancs were sh*te but profited from this weakness as have others.
I wonder why the manager is not allowed to address the shortcoming the squad seem to have in this department?

Not unreasonable to suppose that one or two opposing managers have picked up on this particular Achilles Heel and take advantage with the dead ball situations.
The mancs were sh*te but profited from this weakness as have others.
I wonder why the manager is not allowed to address the shortcoming the squad seem to have in this department?

Why do you think the manager is not allowed to address this problem, who's nto allowing him? No it's nmore the fact he probably doesn't realise it's a problem and does nothing to address it.

Why do you think the manager is not allowed to address this problem, who's nto allowing him? No it's nmore the fact he probably doesn't realise it's a problem and does nothing to address it.

Are you having a laugh??
Do you think it's Brendan's choice we have a threadbare squad?
Do you think it's his choice we sell/loan higher earners?
Do you think he likes being consistently outbid for targets he has designated?

You are having a F***ing laugh illustrated by your doubting the manager of LFC does not realise there is a tactical shortcoming that the world and his wife can see.

WHY ARE WE SO sh*t AT DEFENDING THEM???

Don't forget being shocking at scoring from them!

Also, don't forget we're also a bit sh*t at taking them.

Corner practice this week then eh Brendan?

I think Sakho will improve our defence in set pieces no end, he's a commanding centre back and we've not had one of those this Sammi left.  Scoring from corners on the other hand needs a lot of work, as most don't even clear the first man.

Zonal marking is the way to go in terms of defending. Regardless though why on earth we seem to be losing our men at corners is just unforgivable. In terms of attacking them, we've been appalling at them since Rafa's days. I remember us drawing at home against Stoke in 2008 and us having something like 19 corners that match. Didn't come close to scoring.

As bad as we are at defending them, though usually it's a lapse of concentration that costs is, we are far worse when we are taking them.

I know one thing and that's to keep Gerrard away from taking corners , it's F***ing disturbing .

I know one thing and that's to keep Gerrard away from taking corners , it's f**king disturbing .

and Henderson...

and Henderson...

Right across the board but mainly gerrard for me is dire at it .

Right across the board but mainly gerrard for me is dire at it .

odd, when he's generally one of the best crossers in the league. His best seasons have been out wide, because he's world class at putting a ball in the box.

He shouldn't be taking them from the right, cos obviously it just results in these big harmless outswingers.

We don't have a lot of left footed options to take inswingers from there though.
Enrique's crossing isn't exactly his strong point, so I assume his corners wouldnt be great, so that basically leaves Sturridge.

odd, when he's generally one of the best crossers in the league. His best seasons have been out wide, because he's world class at putting a ball in the box.

he hasn't been of late and the eyes don't lie .

Stevie's probably too tired to take corners, after all it would mean travelling into the oppo half!

Re. attacking corners, watching the match against Manure think we might've had twice the number of corners, but can't remember having an opportunity from any of them! And we had 3 CB's on the pitch. Don't think we mixed things up much either, coming short, a bullet ball to someone running into the center for a shot.  Cmon, a bit of imagination fellas...

I reckon there are under 10 sides with more imaginative corner routines than we have.

They'd probably defend them better as well.

I reckon there are under 10 sides with more imaginative corner routines than we have.

They'd probably defend them better as well.

I honestly believe we should take the Barca approach to our offensive corners. We're crap, we know we're crap, let's not give the opponents the chance to break on us and play it short every time. I liked when Suarez took it short, it didn't come off what he was trying to do but at least there was a clear intention.

I do believe though, that this season we would have more joy just because we have Kolo and Sakho in the team, both of them are absolute beasts in the air, so we could also persevere.

As for defending them, it's schoolboy stuff and why I've suggested we need a defensive coach. Brendan can claim "they know" they shouldn't be losing their man, he can claim to have gone through it but essentially it's his job to ensure the message has been received. Everyone is entitled to make a mistake, but when those mistakes are repeated for the entire time he's had the job there is something fundamentally wrong with the coaching of our defending from corners.

If Enrique isn't getting the message then he shouldn't be the one picking up their most potent poacher, so while individual errors will continue forever, the similarities in these errors suggest the coaching is not getting the right response and that should have been addressed way before now.

I honestly believe we should take the Barca approach to our offensive corners. We're crap, we know we're crap, let's not give the opponents the chance to break on us and play it short every time. I liked when Suarez took it short, it didn't come off what he was trying to do but at least there was a clear intention.

Agree.

Just play it short and get the ball moving again as when we put it in the box more often than not it leads to the opposition getting the ball back.

If we stop running round like headless chickens following the oposition in our box, perhaps we could concentrate a bit more on where the ball is actually heading and intercept. We seem hell bent on sticking to our oponent like a leach, instead of just watching him, keeping in touch, and concentrating on the flight of the ball.
 When you chase around after someone, you are always going to be half a yard behind. If you let them run around and don't follow, they will imediately stop. Then you just walk over to them to get close enough to step accross them when they start their run at the ball, to make sure you get there first. Timeing, strength, and common sense.
 We sometimes look like a lot of clowns, charging in all directions following players that the ball  will never go anywhere near.

Anyone agree Suarez is our corner taker?

Corners are just terrible full stop. Gerrard can't take them to save his life, which is weird considering his delivery from deeper is brilliant. Suarez tried to take one last night, it went wrong and Stevie was like 'no I'm having them again'. Get someone else on them.

On reading these posts - and sort of related to corners - I was thinking about how often we are caught out by the opposing team Counter Attacking our awful corners.

With that I was thinking about how bad we are at counter attacking.

Not to side track too heavily, but I'm sure I'm not alone in wondering why we are so slow at breaking and attacking the opposing team. We bring it up the field okay, then stop, and pass it back again... meanwhile the opposing team is able to sort out their defence again.

Anyone agree Suarez is our corner taker?

Yes this also frees one of our taller and better headers of the ball Stevie to go in to the danger area. But id argue a poacher like him might be handy inthe box on any breaking ball so ideally for me would be 2 full backs taking corners

An example of course of Stevie being a threat in the box from good crosses is Istanbul

Personally I think Gerrard needs to take some of the responsibility for the Soton and Utd goals.

He stupidly goes with his wrong foot vs Soton and he doesn't attack the ball at all vs United, his attempt to head it looked pretty half-assed.
Enrique will continue to get panned but Gerrard has been partly responsible for us conceding two costly goals in a week.

If Enrique isn't getting the message then he shouldn't be the one picking up their most potent poacher, so while individual errors will continue forever, the similarities in these errors suggest the coaching is not getting the right response and that should have been addressed way before now.

Heard Carra on Sky the other week saying he stopped trying to advise/shout at/order around Enrique on the pitch as he just doesn't listen to anybody and does everything his own way

Bad trait.

Heard Carra on Sky the other week saying he stopped trying to advise/shout at/order around Enrique on the pitch as he just doesn't listen to anybody and does everything his own way

Bad trait.

Part of this lack off footballing brain that many, some say harshly, though I'm not one of them, label him with.

Also, don't forget we're also a bit sh*t at taking them.

Corner practice this week then eh Brendan?

No point, apparently its FSG's fault that we are sh*t at taking and defending corners, nothing at all to do with the coaches or manager!!!

No point, apparently its FSG's fault that we are sh*t at taking and defending corners, nothing at all to do with the coaches, players or manager!!!

Fixed

Fixed

So in conclusion

We have sh*t owners, sh*t players and a sh*t manager

Heard Carra on Sky the other week saying he stopped trying to advise/shout at/order around Enrique on the pitch as he just doesn't listen to anybody and does everything his own way

Bad trait.

Could it be a language barrier?

Also, don't forget we're also a bit sh*t at taking them.

Corner practice this week then eh Brendan?

I made the point last season that it was good to see Coutinho taking corners so Gerrard can lurk on the edge of the area where he's dangerous. Even before Coutinho's injury, that went out of the window. Whether that's Brendan's choice or Stevie pulling rank, I don't know but I think they should look at it.

Could it be a language barrier?

Enrique has been in England for years.

I made the point last season that it was good to see Coutinho taking corners so Gerrard can lurk on the edge of the area where he's dangerous. Even before Coutinho's injury, that went out of the window. Whether that's Brendan's choice or Stevie pulling rank, I don't know but I think they should look at it.

Agree whole-heartedly. Think Gerrard is quite poor at corner, if I am honest, so great to see others taking them. With Coutinho not fit, it will probably be Gerrard taking them again. Think it would be better to have him in the middle it even on the edge of the box waiting for the ball.

We were bound to score from a corner today 

We were bound to score from a corner today 

Sweepstake for the next one?  I'll have the third week of April please.

Just as I said Gerrard was sh*te at corners of late , up he pops and delivers the goods . Ah well I love eating my words .

Just as I said Gerrard was sh*te at corners of late , up he pops and delivers the goods . Ah well I love eating my words .

In fairness his corner after the goal went sailing miles over everybody's heads so lets not get to excited, he's still bloody awful at taking corners, btw I think we finally found a team even worse than us at defending them :-)

Interesting topic. I saw on TV (earlier this season) that corners "weren't all that" in football as a whole.

So how sh*t are we at defending corners? Well, last season, our often maligned back four (and keeper) conceded 164 (Premier League) corners - the second fewest in the league. From those we conceded 6 goals = 3.65%.

Offensively our often praised attack won 285 corners - the highest in the league. From those we scored 6 goals = 2.10%

So although it might appear that we are sh*t at defending them (last season anyhow): we are more sh*t at converting them.

Undoubtably one of the most frustrating aspects of our game, the amount of corners we get to what we cash in on is staggering, a part of our game that needs changing. Gerrard takes to many, it should vary more, when Gerrard takes a corner he lofts the ball far to high giving defenders plenty of time to clear the ball. Come on Brendan wake up

whether its zonal defending or even zonal attacking(if there is such a thing) from corners loadsa teams in the BPL spend more time pulling and tugging the man they're marking as the ball comes in..
Corners are a crap shoot in Football these days...you can dink it near post, blast it to the far post but if you don't attack the ball its lost..
The amount of times we win corners through pressure pressure pressure and just deliver a sh*t ball in knee high or straight to the keeper winds me up no end !!
On the odd occasion we've played it short and cut it back to the corner of the box for a more dangerous delivery it's looked better as it fragments the 14 or so players crowded around the edge of the 6 yd box..and/or with Suarez as an option to take it on, with his nutmegs or whip it in...even square it across the D for Gerrard to smack it...
The earlier poster who mentioned the Barcelona way is absolutely right..
The days of the Terry mac , Stevie Highway delivery have long gone...we must be more creative...we've got the players !!

Suarez for me has to be our set piece taker from now on. I feel attacking corners shouldn't be practiced in training. With someone like Suarez taking them let him come up with something in the moment. The only thing I'd have set in stone is for Sakho and Toure to make a nuisance of themselves.

Small players should take corners it ain't rocket science

We do need to improve on corners both offensive & defensive, but I'm more concerned about how we F**k about at the back trying get the ball forward , it f***in annoys me how sometimes we lose possession in front and around the 18y box,
I get so angry when we do it it proper pisses me off, lmao.

YNWA

Small players should take corners it ain't rocket science

Ha...Correct !... hence the Barcelona way mentioned earlier..
If we are gonna ping it into the box then Coutinho's the right size eh..
Like i said there's no reason why Coutinho & Suarez together can't work it short and move the ball in to the danger area..

Gotta agree with you there mate it does my head right in

Was agreeing with billy but agree with 6 stringer also

Plus the fact , when Suarez is in the box jostling for position before the corners taken he's more likely to lose his rag(maybe?) and allow his marker to wind him up...Evra comes to mind... so he's better off with the ball at his feet moving towards goal..

There is an assumption among many fans that it is down to coaching or a lack of coaching but for me it's about the players. Some players attack the ball, have a good leap, are physical and are dominant in the air. Some are not. For a number of years now we haven't had enough of the former. I'd like to think that with Kolo and Sakho in the side we are now better placed to defend them but time will tell.

As for attacking corners, i must admit the Barcelon shout isn't a bad one, play them short and try and the ball to Luis in and around the edge of the box seems like a decent plan to me.

There is an assumption among many fans that it is down to coaching or a lack of coaching but for me it's about the players. Some players attack the ball, have a good leap, are physical and are dominant in the air. Some are not. For a number of years now we haven't had enough of the former. I'd like to think that with Kolo and Sakho in the side we are now better placed to defend them but time will tell.

As for attacking corners, i must admit the Barcelon shout isn't a bad one, play them short and try and the ball to Luis in and around the edge of the box seems like a decent plan to me.

or take Gerrard off them and put him on the edge and get a wingback like johnson to lay it off to him to strike, that way we atleast have more of a goal threat. its not a hard job to whip a ball into the box from a corner. johnson, henderson, coutinho, lucas even enrique at a push should be able to manage that.

or take Gerrard off them and put him on the edge and get a wingback like johnson to lay it off to him to strike, that way we atleast have more of a goal threat. its not a hard job to whip a ball into the box from a corner. johnson, henderson, coutinho, lucas even enrique at a push should be able to manage that.

Anyone would be better at takign corners than gerrard, even after all these years of him taking them he hasn't improved.

Anyone would be better at takign corners than gerrard, even after all these years of him taking them he hasn't improved.

I swear some people are watching a completely different Steven Gerrard. His dead balls are amazing for me.

Didn't he put a peach of a corner onto sturridge's swede (or arm!) at Sunderland?

The defending of them is still what worries me most. I know it was not a corner but Gayle's goal against us the last day was a free positioned much like a corner and he scored easily at the near post with no real pressure from any defender.

We are out of a cup because of a corner and we have lost at home due to one aswel. Scoring them helps but we are not Stoke and we don't rely on set pieces for goals. What we do need to seriously address is defending them!

Has anyone ever been to our training sessions or are they all behind closed doors at Melwood? I really do wonder if we do any training on set pieces/corners because we've been dreadful both defensively and offensively from them....

Has anyone ever been to our training sessions or are they all behind closed doors at Melwood? I really do wonder if we do any training on set pieces/corners because we've been dreadful both defensively and offensively from them....

I think because we focus so much on keeping the ball down and playing quick passing football maybe time spent on corners is not as much as some of the lesser passing teams. I reckon when coutinho is back he will take the corners freeing up more players to get in the box and score

or take Gerrard off them and put him on the edge and get a wingback like johnson to lay it off to him to strike, that way we atleast have more of a goal threat. its not a hard job to whip a ball into the box from a corner. johnson, henderson, coutinho, lucas even enrique at a push should be able to manage that.

You can't send every player up for corners and leave yourself totally exposed to the counter. We send the CBs up to provide a (theoretical) threat in the air so Johnson and Enrique stay back with Lucas stood in the middle and that serves us well, I wouldn't want any of those taking corners.

When fit, the obvious choice for me is Coutinho and that's not a slight on Gerrard, I just feel he would be more dangerous on the edge of the 18 yard box. In Coutinho's absence, perhaps Hendo (when not filling in for Lucas) or Moses could do the job.

I strongly disagree with taking Suarez out of the box, I want our most lethal goalscorers in there.

As I've said earlier, my concern isn't just with corners at either end but more with defending balls crossed into the box from dead balls OR open play and we saw it again against Palace. I noticed Sakho cleared several with his head and had gone off when we conceded. Coincidence??
For all of Dagger and Skrtel's strengths, this has long been a weakness in my eyes.

You can't send every player up for corners and leave yourself totally exposed to the counter. We send the CBs up to provide a (theoretical) threat in the air so Johnson and Enrique stay back with Lucas stood in the middle and that serves us well, I wouldn't want any of those taking corners.

When fit, the obvious choice for me is Coutinho and that's not a slight on Gerrard, I just feel he would be more dangerous on the edge of the 18 yard box. In Coutinho's absence, perhaps Hendo (when not filling in for Lucas) or Moses could do the job.

I strongly disagree with taking Suarez out of the box, I want our most lethal goalscorers in there.

As I've said earlier, my concern isn't just with corners at either end but more with defending balls crossed into the box from dead balls OR open play and we saw it again against Palace. I noticed Sakho cleared several with his head and had gone off when we conceded. Coincidence??
For all of Dagger and Skrtel's strengths, this has long been a weakness in my eyes.

some good points there mate, i dont know weather they are told to man mark or go for the ball but its something we need to work on and with Sakho in there we might improve as other players around him will see how he attacks the ball and we might even get a few counter goals from defending a corner. When we sell Skrtel in Jan we will have none of this chopping and changing i think it will be 3 at the back with Kolo RCB, Sakho CB and Agger LCB with Ilori on the bench that for me is more than capable of being a solid trio.

F***ing bump! 

F*cking bump! Since I can't remember I sh*t my bricks with a corner coming in and this Karius lad has made my nerves worse!

F*cking bump! Since I can't remember I sh*t my bricks with a corner coming in and this Karius lad has made my nerves worse!

That arsewipe John Achterberg.

Every single F***ing keeper we've had under his tenure has been sh*t at crosses - there seems to be absolutely no evidence of any coaching with this.

A corner to the opposition seems like a penalty kick to me now, i just know it's probably gonna end up in the net...

A corner to the opposition seems like a penalty kick to me now, i just know it's probably gonna end up in the net...

Oh get a grip ... overreacting here ... We dealt good with corners against the mancs and happened to conced against WBA which is in 1st place on scoring from set-pieces ... The problem was us wasting chances as we should have been 4-5 goals up by then.