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      May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.

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      Roddenberry
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #69: Nov 13, 2013 11:17:14 pm

      http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php/topic,44923.msg1477001.html#msg1477001

      Maybe not the first Mick and certainly not alone either.

      I still worry about the mental strength of our team, when the pressure is on, against teams perceived to be better or worse than us.  As someone has mentioned, a winning mentality is important and it can be learned.  I still think we're a tad frail mentally and can still be beat or beat any one in the league and that's worrying.  Mind you Fulham was the first team in a long time were I didn't think their was even a modicum of doubt about the result in my mind before the game and if Rodgers can instil that kind of belief in the group and us fans, we'll be one step closer to 19.
      QuicoGalante
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #70: Nov 13, 2013 11:29:38 pm
      Thank god my accountant doesnt know that...

      IF we manage to keep this for untill Xmas, AND if we win key matches (thats to direct rivals), we could have a shot. Second half of the season we are having most matches against contenders at home. We definitely have a shot.

      Thats if we add some depth to the squad...
      s@int
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #71: Nov 14, 2013 01:31:03 am

      I think this is the stat that we need to work on more than anything:

      http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2012-2013/defence/full

      If you look at our goals conceded,
      We had the 2nd highest clean sheets,
      but often when we did concede we went on to concede
      more than one. Maybe that's why we put a priority on defenders,
      to put some steel in defence.

      We only conceded the same number of goals as the mancs (who won the title) and with a similar distribution of goals conceded. The difference being of course where we lost 2-1 or  3-1, the mancs won their games 3-2 or 4-3. It was that resilience that separated the mancs from the rest last season.... something we need to build into our team.
      skolRED
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #72: Nov 14, 2013 02:47:20 am
      For me, it's very exciting season, and I'd like to say I dare dream for the title.

      And I hope the club (owners/management) watching the situation and have enough ambition to support BR and the team. Everyone know the like of Chelsea, Man City can change things with their money and Man Utd and Spurs likely to do better next season, and it can be more difficult for us.

      So, as far as I know next year we also will do better but this season title winner is something we can reach.

      Keys is whether BR can get the right players in January, and it's almost all depend on the owner/management to support him. If I'm JWH I would not hesitate to put my money in, even, if need, have to sell some of Linda's panties though, ha ha ha 
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #73: Nov 14, 2013 11:35:32 am
      It's been shown that we are in fact 4 points better off, like-for-like, when compared with last season. It's measurable, reliable and provable. The variables that are mentioned in trying to rubbish this claim all exist outside of our club and beyond our control, therefore become irrelevant when discussing our progress.
      Exactly mate... "our progress" or more precisely our progress in terms of points - which some may have missed.

      Last season we finished with 61 points; that won't change and remains constant. We achieved those 61 points after a series of results in 38 fixtures; those results won't change and remain constant.

      To improve on those 61 points we must better more of our 'negative' results [than we don't] and match more of our positive results [than we don't]. To measure our progress, towards bettering those 61 points, (and only that) there is no more accurate way than comparing the result from one fixture with that of the corresponding fixture from last season.

            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      The following is a real Year 8 comprehension paper - only the names have been changed to protect the innocent...

      Frank Lee is a pupil in a class of 21. Frank Lee is the best pupil, in his class, at Maths but is only 'average' at games. His teacher Mr Shankly has run a cricket ball throwing competition for the past two years. The pupils take turns throwing the ball, against each other pupil, one at a time - two points awarded for a win; one point for a draw. The order in which the pupils play each other is generated randomly by Mr Shankly. In each of the previous two years Frank-Lee has beaten ten of his fellow pupils and lost to the other ten - finishing with twenty points on both occasions.

      In the previous two years Frank-Lee played five of the classmates he beat and five of the classmates he didn't in the first ten games of the competition - after those ten games he has always had ten points. This year however, the 'fixtures', randomly generated by Mr Shankly, have paired Frank-Lee against the ten pupils, he has beaten before, in the first ten games.

      After those ten games, Frank-Lee has twenty points - ten more than he's ever achieved at the same time in previous years.

      Q1: Is Frank-Lee now right to feel that he has improved to be is twice as good as he was last year.

      A. Yes; because he has double his points tally at the same time as last year.

      B: No; because he knows he only played the pupils he has beaten before and expected to do that.

      C: Richard and Judy.

      Q2: If Frank-Lee had played the same ten players, as he did last year, in the first ten games and scored thirteen points; would he be right to feel confident he has improved, thus far?

      A: Yes; because he has played the same pupils with a better outcome.

      B: No; because he has played the same pupils with a better outcome.

      C: Richard and Judy.

      Q3 : How will Frank-Lee be able to measure, accurately, his progress towards a personal improvement on his twenty points?

      A: By looking at and comparing his results against the same pupils: i.e. he lost to Peter, in the first game, last year but beat him, in the eleventh game this year.

      B: By looking at and comparing his results against different pupils: i.e. he lost to Peter in the first game last year but he beat Jane in the first game this year. * Please note: He also beat Jane, in the twelfth game, last year.

      C: Richard and Judy.

             ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      No, not science - just a more accurate way of measuring progress towards exceeding a constant target -  the 61 points from last year.

      As for League position - that will look after it's self and is not in our hands. We may finish on more points but still seventh or we may finish with less points but in fifth (for e.g.). That [League position) will be determined on the variable of how much or little others have improved or regressed around us.

      Next up - Everton away. In the corresponding fixture last season we drew with them. In the twelfth game of the season last season we played and beat Wigan at home. If we beat Everton we will have improved on last season's points return by 2 in a 'like for like' comparison - bringing the running total up to + 6.

      Alternatively, for those who prefer to compare the League Table, this "time" this season, with the League Table, "this time last season": the same result [a win at Everton] will see us no better off - i.e. we will remain on 11 points better off... remain the same, even after a win? Hmm...



      FL Red
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #74: Nov 14, 2013 11:52:27 am
      Beginning of the season I figured we'd finish 3rd. To me that puts us within a shout of the top so it's not really overly ambitious to say that we could make a serious challenge for the title, and I for one think we just might. Team is playing well, mostly healthy and we've actually got some cover for some folks this year. As always, January will be crucial and with recent comments from Brendan and even JWH, I think we might actually get to spend some money in January.
      Beerbelly
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #75: Nov 14, 2013 12:24:45 pm
      Wow, exemplars of comprehension papers and everything.  :D
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #76: Nov 14, 2013 12:39:18 pm
      Obviously everyone on here WANTS us to challenge, just like everyone on here WANTS us to win it. Given that, I'm not going to criticise anyone who says "I'd love it too but I don't think it's likely", I totally get it. There are plenty of reasons you can find to indicate that we won't do it, but IMHO there are similar reasons for everyone in the league.

      Joking and leg pulling aside Mick: I may be wrong but you definitely seemed less optimistic when you started your "end of the beginning" thread (http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php/topic,45417.0.html) - what, if anything, have you seen, in us, in the three weeks since, to change your mind?

      I'm not trying to be "funny" by the way.  8)




      s@int
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #77: Nov 14, 2013 12:44:03 pm
      Wow, exemplars of comprehension papers and everything.  :D

      Don't panic mate..... you can always copy off me. (just pick c .... it's always c )
      Beerbelly
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #78: Nov 14, 2013 01:10:34 pm
      Don't panic mate..... you can always copy off me. (just pick c .... it's always c )

       :lmao:
      Ribapuru
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #79: Nov 14, 2013 01:23:51 pm
      These people saying we only played easy teams, Manchester United,  Arsenal,  Newcastle, Southampton aren't easy. We still 2nd so think ya talking trash.  Who are hard?  Manchester City?  ;D. Okay. ... lets get one thing clear.  Form >  Quality > Reputation.
      Brilliant Babbel
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #80: Nov 14, 2013 01:24:44 pm
      I think it's too early to talk about winning league titles....we've got a very tough month coming up and it could be over before its started, if we hit a poor run of forum over the festive period.

      If we're top come January, then i'll start dreaming, but it's temping fate to say it now.
      harrydunn08
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #81: Nov 14, 2013 01:41:26 pm
      I have to agree with Mick.  I think we have a title winning team if our best players can remain fit.  Every team needs a bit of luck to win a title, and I think we are due some good fortune!!  If we can keep Migs, Johno, Enrique, Lucas, Gerrard, Coutinho, Studge, and Suarez injury free for the next 8 months then I think a title run is on the cards.  If we run into injury problems with a number of the aforementioned group then we may struggle to cope with their absence. 
      s@int
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #82: Nov 14, 2013 01:47:35 pm
      These people saying we only played easy teams, Manchester United,  Arsenal,  Newcastle, Southampton aren't easy. We still 2nd so think ya talking trash.  Who are hard?  Manchester City?  ;D. Okay. ... lets get one thing clear.  Form >  Quality > Reputation.

      So we have played 4 hard sides ..... and won one? played the 4 bottom clubs.... and won all 4.
      bigmick
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #83: Nov 14, 2013 02:25:49 pm
      Joking and leg pulling aside Mick: I may be wrong but you definitely seemed less optimistic when you started your "end of the beginning" thread (http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php/topic,45417.0.html) - what, if anything, have you seen, in us, in the three weeks since, to change your mind?

      I'm not trying to be "funny" by the way.  8)








      It's a fair question mate so I'll give the fairest answer I can.


      Firstly a confession, I might as well "come out" (in a football sense only obviously). I've secretly ALWAYS thought that as long as we could negotiate the absence of Suarez, we'd come close this year. This is as long as neither Man City or Chelsea didn't lose only one game all season or something ridiculous, we aren't capable of that. Why did I think we would? Well quite simply because if you look at our form since January till the end of last season we were right up there with the best of them, even with Suarez (our best player) banned for four or five matches. I never did buy into that "who needs Suarez/Lets stick him on the bench when he comes back" nonsense, he's the best player in the league and anyone would miss him. Once we'd got over the hurdle of not losing too many points without Luis, I felt it was game on. That's the first thing which needs to be said. 

      During the last three weeks or so much has happened which has encouraged me to lay my cards on the table. Firstly, Suarez has scored about six goals in three matches or something daft, AND I saw him live and saw his hunger for the job first hand. I am in absolutely no doubt at all that he has improved this season and is even better, his head is in a better place or however people dress these things up. With him in the team we really are a respectable match up for any of the top teams (I mean it I really think he is that good) and the bottom teams have an almost impossible task trying to stop him.

      Also these last three weeks, the fallibility of everyone else has been put into sharp focus. Running down the potential winners (other than us), here's how I rate them as of now:

        Man Utd Despite an awful start, have dragged themselves back into contention. For them the task is to stay in touch until January when they will look to strengthen. I rate Moyes as a manager (sorry but I do) but he is inexperienced in a league campaign at the top and no comparison to Ferguson. Also, Van Persie is having to be nursed through the season and will be a massive loss when he breaks down, while Carrick (a hugely important player for them) is out for 6 weeks. I don't think they'll win it.

        Man City The best squad in the league and the second best player in Aguerro. Unfortunately for them, their manager reminds me of other foreign managers in his first season, he doesn't get it. You cannot keep getting beat by poor sides on the road unless there is something wrong. If we don't win it they will, but Kompany is a massive loss for them and it seems like he is injured again. Goalkeeper is an ongoing problem, but they will go very close.

        Arsenal On a good day they're a good side (as they proved against us) but can be bullied out of it, as Man U proved. My feeling is that as the weather closes in they'll begin to get beat on the road by muscular teams, as has happened in the past. The Ozil influence has settled down now, and they are hugely, massively reliant on Giroud staying fit. Should finish top four, but won't IMHO win it.

        Chelsea Like Man U, they'll be looking to stay in touch until January when you can be certain they'll spend and spend big. I keep hearing whispers from those who know what they're whispering about that it could be Lewandowski as the new striker and not Falcao, but whoever they get in will improve them from what they have now. Looking good to qualify for the next stages of the Champions League which works against them, and despite Mourinho's baffling dislike of Mata I expect them to be in the top 3. Two consecutive awful results though have knocked them back, and they really ought to be 3 points worse off than they are (2 ridiculous reffing decisions so far make them the new Man U).

        Spurs and Southampton Neither can win it. Spurs because they aren't good enough, Southampton because the squad isn't big enough. I will say though Poccacino has done an unbelievable job, and the way Southampton play is a thing of the future.



       So there you have it.
      Roddenberry
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #84: Nov 14, 2013 03:10:45 pm
      Wasn't it with a gun to your head Mick, that you predicted 4th, pre-season?
      waltonl4
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #85: Nov 14, 2013 03:24:19 pm
      Wasn't it with a gun to your head Mick, that you predicted 4th, pre-season?
      ouch
      waltonl4
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #86: Nov 14, 2013 03:25:51 pm
      strange how we can go from not being able to judge our season after 10 league games to being able to predict we can win the league.Beat Everton and I will be very very happy with our progress
      bigmick
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #87: Nov 14, 2013 03:49:17 pm
      Wasn't it with a gun to your head Mick, that you predicted 4th, pre-season?

      It probably was mate, everyone seems better at remembering my posts than I am so I'm sure you're right. That was though before I'd seen Man City lose four out of their first five away games or whatever it is, seen the Mancs have their worst start for 25 years, seen Chelsea get beat at Newcastle and almost beat at home to WBA. Equally, it was before I'd seen Spurs demonstrate that they aren't good enough and before I'd seen us start so well. Only Arsenal have surprised me to the upside so far, and this was before I'd seen that. Equally, inherent in all of us is the desire not to "jinx things" by being overly confident, or to appear silly by going too out  there with predictions, there's an element of that too. Without searching for a quote I think I always said that we'd challenge for the title "at some stage", I'm now modifying that to be "all the way through". If my explanation isn't good enough you'll just have to have me down as having changed my mind, I do that sometimes, it's one of my things.

      As for Waltons "ouch" I'm not sure what you mean. I think the fella makes a fair point, challenging for the title "at some stage" to "seriously challenging for the title" is a fair old mood swing, and it demands an explanation. There's no ouch on my part, I didn't recoil in agony at him pointing out any discrepancies.

       As far as this quote is concerned "strange how we can go from not being able to judge our season after 10 league games to being able to predict we can win the league. Beat Everton and I will be very very happy with our progress" I don't think this was aimed at me was it? I don't think I've been saying "you can't judge our season after 10 matches" so I'm sure it isn't. I'm glad that you'll be "very very happy with our progress if we beat Everton", I'm in the fairly fortunate position of being happy with our progress even if we don't (although obviously I'll be even happier if we do). I hope if we do, we don't have to wait too long before you come over and join me trying to get this bandwagon rolling, it ain't easy on my own when it hasn't moved for a few years. 
      heimdall
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #88: Nov 14, 2013 04:20:27 pm
      strange how we can go from not being able to judge our season after 10 league games to being able to predict we can win the league.Beat Everton and I will be very very happy with our progress

      Yes Everton will be the big test I think. Also if we can come out of December within reach of the top then I think we have a good chance, especially if we strengthen the midfield in January.
      Scottbot
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #89: Nov 14, 2013 06:07:57 pm
      No reason why we can't push on and make a play for it this season. We've had a great start and confidence is a wonderful thing that can carry a side a long way. I remember Villa making a real run for it under John Gregory one year and I believe they were top in January after making a great start. They weren't able to sustain the run but I would hope that FSG might have the balls to spend some proper money in the window if we're sitting in and around the top 1 or 2 places come the new year. I'm also encouraged by the fact that our form so far this season is very much an extension of the form we've shown since Januaryso it's not like it has come out of the blue.

      The obvious downside for me at the moment is that we are only really just ahead of the chasing pack, I think we are 5 points away from 9th spot and 4 points away from joint 8th so I will save my excitement for a time when we have started to put a bit of distance between ourselves and a few more of our rivals.

      Interesting to read some of the debate on the significance of the results we have achieved so far. I feel like some posters have been a bit dismissive of us flattening the minnows. I see what they are saying but if we can achieve seem sort of parity I the matches against our biggest rivals whilst crapping all over the lesser teams then I'll be happy enough. It's rare for one side to absolutely boss it in terms of the top table. I remember in 08/09 Rafa had a fantastic record in the mini league vs united, Chelsea and Arsenal BUT I can recall several seasons when the mancs actually dropped quite a few points in the if games but it was their incredible consistency in swatting aside the lower teams that got them the title.
      « Last Edit: Nov 14, 2013 07:03:42 pm by Scottbot »
      QuicoGalante
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #90: Nov 14, 2013 10:33:11 pm
      Four-Moyes-Years   Four-Moyes-Years
      Lets tw*t the bitters and take it from there...even if Moyes is not there. It only means Manure will be our easiest fixture of the season,  :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
      GERNS
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #91: Nov 14, 2013 10:40:06 pm
      Think we've got to get 18 points from our next 7 gems to have a realistic chance of top spot. Think we'll challenge to be in the top 4. anything more depends on who we manage to get in during Jan.
       Hope its this year for Stevie's sake. Another year on and it's looking unlikely for him due to his age. He may still be playing on but his dynamism is waning.
      Good transfer deals in Jan then, and it's a possibility.

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