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      May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.

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      bigmick
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      May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Nov 13, 2013 07:20:59 am
       I've never been one to be overly afraid of putting something out there on forums, something which will be quoted back to you in months and years ahead when it goes spectacularly wrong. Sometimes I've been hopelessly wide of the mark, others not so. I'm pretty confident on this one though, and it's not a case of just being silly in order to get a reaction. Here's why...... 


       Firstly and formostly we have IMHO the best player in the league by a distance in Luis Suarez. Further, we have a Suarez who is fizzing ready to pop in terms of motivation and desire (primarily IMHO because he wants a move at the end of the season to either Barca, Madrid or Bayern). The other thing is with Suarez, he has seen from Messi and Ronaldo that in order to be considered right up there with the Worlds best you have to score an utterly ridiculous amount of goals. Football has changed in this sense, much like cricket has changed forever since the advent of 20/20. Just like you don't see Geoff Boycotts anymore trundling along all day to get 100, these days superstars don't score goals at the rate of one every other game they bang them in EVERY game, left right and centre. I started a thread about Suarez at the beginning of last season asking whether he was about to embark on this type of scoring spree, and he has. This season it seems even more the case, and against Fulham he got three but it could easily have been six. So potent is he, that a potential goal happens for him every ten minutes or even less. It maybe that a little through ball gets blocked before it gets to him, a little flick doesn't quite come off which stops him, but ultimately he is trying to score in every minute of every game. He is becoming in my opinion the best player that has ever worn the shirt (yes I know) and I think before the seasons end most will agree. Against poor teams he is practically unstoppable, and against good sides he is hard to handle. Despite us being outplayed against Arsenal, he hit the post and ought to have passed for Sturridge for another, and that's just from memory which is a case in point. Because of Suarez, we will win many points that we otherwise wouldn't.

       That's not it either. We have the classic "spine" of a good side in that we have a top goalkeeper, good centre halves (and here I personally think Sakho will by the seasons end be talked about as being one of the best centre halves in the league), a top central midfielder and also Sturridge to compliment Suarez. Throw in a monster right back going forward, a wonderfully gifted little number 10 and we have the makings of a bloody good side. Our "make up the numbers" players ain't too shabby either, Lucas, Enrique, Allen, Skrtel etc are good players, as is Kolo. As far as the squad is concerned, we do need a bit of luck with Mignolet, Johnson, Gerrard, Suarez, Enrique and Coutinho, but arguably we could cope with anyone else being out for a bit. So team wise we are strong, and squad wise another left back in Jan as well as a defensive midfielder should see us able to cope with most eventualities.

       So is that it? Well, no it isn't. We must also look at the opposition, who else can win it? Well fortunately the team with the best squad by a distance (Man City) are being managed by someone who at the moment doesn't understand the league he is operating in. He's not the first, only Mourinho managed to come in and get it straight away, but Pelligrini is still in this "we can take it easy against the lower teams in selection and tempo" mode, and hopefully he takes until Christmas to work out his folly. If he does, we might just have a decent enough lead to hold them off. Chelsea aren't convincing and need a striker, the Mancs are dragging themselves back into it but surely can't win it with this team and no Ferguson, which leaves only Arsenal. Now I'm hoping that them being outmuscled by the Mancs again on Sunday will have planted the old seeds of doubt once again, and they've a couple of dodgy games coming up. They won't in it I don't think, but someone has to and I think if it isn't us we might just go bloody close. The other massive factor in our favour is WE AREN'T IN EUROPE. This IMHo is a huge advantage, and will become more so when the Champions League knockout stages kick in, I'm praying that Arsenal qualify.

       So what do we need to make a real challenge? Obviously we need our key players to stay fit, need a bit of rub of the green (some of the rub of the green Chelsea have already had with the Villa handball not being given and Ramirez penalty decision against WBA wouldn't go amiss) and we need one other thing IMHO. We need our supporters to cotton onto what's happening and get some belief, and sharpish. Anfield on Saturday was a bit of a morgue at times, and that can't happen. We need every fan at the games to properly get behind the team and manager, to carry them over the line in difficult games, to sneak a point when we're beaten. No groans for a misplaced pass, no frustration when it gets blasted over, just support from the first minute to the last.

       So there you have it, I think we are going to properly challenge for the title. By "properly challenge" I mean that all the pundits are going to at some point concede that we might win it, all the other managers will be talking about us as potential Champions. I don't expect our manager and players to talk about us being potential Champions, but hopefully our fans aren't the last to catch on that that is exactly what we are.

       "Properly challenge"? I think we'll be in a group of two or three who pull away, and with half a dozen games to go we'll be within 3-4 points of the top. This is where you heard it first. 
      Billy1
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #1: Nov 13, 2013 07:29:19 am
       As with every Liverpool supporter I cannot wait for the day to come when we are league champions once again.I go into every new season believing that this will be the season for us to get back on that bike.We have waited far too long and I hope this will be the season when once again we are top of the pile.
      bazspeedman
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #2: Nov 13, 2013 08:59:59 am
      Not wanting to sound pessimistic but I have never been a "this is our year" type of supporter. The only season in the last decade I thought we genuinely had a chance of winning the league was the year we finished 2nd after thrashing the Scums 4-1. We had the best midfield and striker in the league that season and still came up short. I think top 4 is a definite possibility this season providing we sign a couple of quality players that can improve the first team immediately like the two we made last January. I agree with the OP's posts regarding the other potential title contenders but it's a long season and when I look at their squads and the fact they might look to strengthen again in January I find it hard to see us competing for the top spot come April.

      However, I believe our title aspirations hinge solely on who we bring in this January. If we sign proven quality then, and only then, will we have a realistic chance of pushing for the title. Like the OP says we are heavily reliant on Johnson, Enrique, Coutinho, and Gerrard staying fit. We lack the depth in quality in the squad to compensate when any of these players are missing. But there's no doubt we have as good a starting 11 as any other team in the league. We're not too far away from having a squad equally as good as our rivals. But we need those quality signings.
      JD
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #3: Nov 13, 2013 09:04:14 am
      Got no problem with such optimistic thinking even if personally I think it's highly unlikely.

      While you do raise some good reasons why its possible it crucially depends on Suarez

      a) not going in January
      b) staying fit all season long (as I'm sure you would agree we do not have sufficient forward cover)
      c) not biting anyone/getting himself a ban

      "Properly challenge"? I think we'll be in a group of two or three who pull away, and with half a dozen games to go we'll be within 3-4 points of the top. This is where you heard it first.

      Hope so. 
      billythered
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #4: Nov 13, 2013 09:21:32 am
      I've never been one to be overly afraid of putting something out there on forums, something which will be quoted back to you in months and years ahead when it goes spectacularly wrong. Sometimes I've been hopelessly wide of the mark, others not so. I'm pretty confident on this one though, and it's not a case of just being silly in order to get a reaction. Here's why...... 


       Firstly and formostly we have IMHO the best player in the league by a distance in Luis Suarez. Further, we have a Suarez who is fizzing ready to pop in terms of motivation and desire (primarily IMHO because he wants a move at the end of the season to either Barca, Madrid or Bayern). The other thing is with Suarez, he has seen from Messi and Ronaldo that in order to be considered right up there with the Worlds best you have to score an utterly ridiculous amount of goals. Football has changed in this sense, much like cricket has changed forever since the advent of 20/20. Just like you don't see Geoff Boycotts anymore trundling along all day to get 100, these days superstars don't score goals at the rate of one every other game they bang them in EVERY game, left right and centre. I started a thread about Suarez at the beginning of last season asking whether he was about to embark on this type of scoring spree, and he has. This season it seems even more the case, and against Fulham he got three but it could easily have been six. So potent is he, that a potential goal happens for him every ten minutes or even less. It maybe that a little through ball gets blocked before it gets to him, a little flick doesn't quite come off which stops him, but ultimately he is trying to score in every minute of every game. He is becoming in my opinion the best player that has ever worn the shirt (yes I know) and I think before the seasons end most will agree. Against poor teams he is practically unstoppable, and against good sides he is hard to handle. Despite us being outplayed against Arsenal, he hit the post and ought to have passed for Sturridge for another, and that's just from memory which is a case in point. Because of Suarez, we will win many points that we otherwise wouldn't.

       That's not it either. We have the classic "spine" of a good side in that we have a top goalkeeper, good centre halves (and here I personally think Sakho will by the seasons end be talked about as being one of the best centre halves in the league), a top central midfielder and also Sturridge to compliment Suarez. Throw in a monster right back going forward, a wonderfully gifted little number 10 and we have the makings of a bloody good side. Our "make up the numbers" players ain't too shabby either, Lucas, Enrique, Allen, Skrtel etc are good players, as is Kolo. As far as the squad is concerned, we do need a bit of luck with Mignolet, Johnson, Gerrard, Suarez, Enrique and Coutinho, but arguably we could cope with anyone else being out for a bit. So team wise we are strong, and squad wise another left back in Jan as well as a defensive midfielder should see us able to cope with most eventualities.

       So is that it? Well, no it isn't. We must also look at the opposition, who else can win it? Well fortunately the team with the best squad by a distance (Man City) are being managed by someone who at the moment doesn't understand the league he is operating in. He's not the first, only Mourinho managed to come in and get it straight away, but Pelligrini is still in this "we can take it easy against the lower teams in selection and tempo" mode, and hopefully he takes until Christmas to work out his folly. If he does, we might just have a decent enough lead to hold them off. Chelsea aren't convincing and need a striker, the Mancs are dragging themselves back into it but surely can't win it with this team and no Ferguson, which leaves only Arsenal. Now I'm hoping that them being outmuscled by the Mancs again on Sunday will have planted the old seeds of doubt once again, and they've a couple of dodgy games coming up. They won't in it I don't think, but someone has to and I think if it isn't us we might just go bloody close. The other massive factor in our favour is WE AREN'T IN EUROPE. This IMHo is a huge advantage, and will become more so when the Champions League knockout stages kick in, I'm praying that Arsenal qualify.

       So what do we need to make a real challenge? Obviously we need our key players to stay fit, need a bit of rub of the green (some of the rub of the green Chelsea have already had with the Villa handball not being given and Ramirez penalty decision against WBA wouldn't go amiss) and we need one other thing IMHO. We need our supporters to cotton onto what's happening and get some belief, and sharpish. Anfield on Saturday was a bit of a morgue at times, and that can't happen. We need every fan at the games to properly get behind the team and manager, to carry them over the line in difficult games, to sneak a point when we're beaten. No groans for a misplaced pass, no frustration when it gets blasted over, just support from the first minute to the last.

       So there you have it, I think we are going to properly challenge for the title. By "properly challenge" I mean that all the pundits are going to at some point concede that we might win it, all the other managers will be talking about us as potential Champions. I don't expect our manager and players to talk about us being potential Champions, but hopefully our fans aren't the last to catch on that that is exactly what we are.

       "Properly challenge"? I think we'll be in a group of two or three who pull away, and with half a dozen games to go we'll be within 3-4 points of the top. This is where you heard it first. 

      Top post Mick,

      I'm loving your positivity and optimism but for me your missing one or two vital ingredients, I'm hoping BR will receive the funds from FSG to find them in the Jan window,

      If BR finds the two top midfielders who can walk straight in then yeah I would say we have a realistic chance, as much as I loved seeing Gerrard , Hendo & Lucas play better last weekend I don't think they will be consistent enough to take us all the way, I also believe we still need cover for Enrique at LB, yeah Glen can cover but he's better suited where he is,

      I agree that the so called big boys are yet to come to the party but we would be foolish to believe they suddenly don't find form, I've looked at the next six matches for those in the top eight currently ( I'll post in another thread)
      it is very encouraging and its possible we could be top at Xmas, we have Blueshite,Hull , Norwich, WHU, Spuds , and Cardiff and potentially 18 pts taking us to 41pts,

      IMO only Spuds are a tad sticky, I'm trying not to get ahead of myself but to be top of the pile with still room for improvement it is getting very exciting , and I love it.

      YNWA
      CoutinhoRed
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #5: Nov 13, 2013 09:47:59 am
      Admiring your optimism, but I would say it's realistic for us to be perceived as top four contenders. Whilst Man City and Chelsea have had awful starts, they only remain a couple points adrift. We have to ensure that we beat teams like Southampton, Newcastle and Swansea home and away if we're to challenge for the title.

      The champions will likely finish on above 85 points. That's 2.2 points per game. To manage that, you also have to beat your rivals in the head to head. Last season we had a particularly impressive away form against our rivals. We drew with Manchester City, Chelsea, and Arsenal whilst losing to United and Spurs. But then again, that's only 8 points we managed in the head to head in these 10 games. We need to better that this season!

      If we finish on 75 points or thereabouts, I will be absolutely delighted. Just remember, there is a lot of work in progress. A lot of our success will also rely on how much support FSG are willing to provide for BR.
      stuey
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #6: Nov 13, 2013 09:53:54 am
      F***ing right!!
      manwithnoname
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #7: Nov 13, 2013 10:44:45 am
      Well, the media has been full of stories about this season being the one were it is actually going to be "anyone's title".

      It's been said before, but there does seem to be a much wider bunching of teams at the top (if that's not an oxymoronic statement!). Nobody is really running away with it so far, and there is also the additional factors of lots of new players and also new managers.

      You look at City, who most would argue have the strongest squad, and they are struggling badly without Kompany, and Hart's run of form. They have lost 4 out of 6 away from home, although their home form is amazing. Chelsea are another with a great squad, but still chop and change and lack a top quality DM. United have lost the most important facet of their success: Ferguson. Spurs have lost their best player, and have lots of new arrivals to bed in, plus a lone striker formation that doesn't suit their current first-choice striker. And Arsenal have lots of quality all over the pitch, but only one striker of note, and he's not as good as our two.

      Southampton and Everton are the other teams that are doing OK, but I can't se both maintaining a challenge.

      The other advantage we have is that we will play less games than the usual Top 4 teams, as we don't have Europe. Or the League cup.

      So it's not ridiculous. Although I think we are still short in midfield and we need to make sure Johnson and Enrique stay fit.

      It's way too early to guess, but I think we could see a Top 3 of City, Chelsea and Arsenal. With United, Spurs, Southampton, Everton and us battling for fourth.

      If we stay in the top 2 until after Xmas..... Game on.
      Semple
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #8: Nov 13, 2013 10:49:04 am
      Loving the optimism mate. It's a little too early to be saying we will win the league but I think, certainly if we come through the busy November and Christmas schedule unscathed, we will be up and around their come the end of the season.

      I said before, it's great that we are putting smaller teams to the sword. You don't win leagues without beating weaker teams. However, a real sign of enough progress to win the league is winning against the so-called bigger teams. We have beaten United, lost to Arsenal and haven't played the rest yet. Until we do, we can't say whether we will win their. But I think we will certainly be up their.
      sebby
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #9: Nov 13, 2013 11:22:22 am
      Good topic,we will not be far away,city have already lost 4 games,new manager,i can't see them doing it tbh...utd...moyes.. enough said,spurs again losing games and second half of season they normally drop out of contention,chavs so lucky against west brom,but their luck will run out,barring any long term injuries to key players,we will be in the mix with arsenal for the title,and hopefully we can finish above them,best chance in years to be back where we belong
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #10: Nov 13, 2013 11:24:39 am
      I've never been one to be overly afraid of putting something out there on forums, something which will be quoted back to you in months and years ahead when it goes spectacularly wrong.
      Good. So not the "end of the beginning" after all then?  ;D
      CoutinhoRed
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #11: Nov 13, 2013 11:46:13 am
      Let's call it a big five head to head table:

      Manchester United 0-0 Chelsea
      Liverpool 1-0 Manchester United
      Arsenal 1-0 Spurs
      Manchester City 4-1 Manchester United
      Spurs 1-1 Chelsea
      Chelsea 2-1 Manchester City
      Arsenal 2-0 Liverpool
      Manchester United 1-0 Arsenal

      1. Chelsea    P3 W1 D2 L0 PTS5
      2. Man Utd   P4 W1 D1 L2 PTS4
      3. Man City   P2 W1 D0 L1 PTS3
      4. Liverpool  P2 W1 D0 L1 PTS3
      5. Spurs        P2 W0 D1 L1 PTS1

      Upcoming fixtures:

      Liverpool: Spurs (a), City (a), Chelsea (a), Arsenal (h), United (a), Spurs (h), City (h), Chelsea (h).
      « Last Edit: Nov 13, 2013 11:55:07 am by CoutinhoRed »
      reddebs
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #12: Nov 13, 2013 11:48:35 am
      I don't think it's impossible but it's highly unlikely, this season.  It's quite right that the league is wide open with so many new managers at the top and lot's of clubs going through transition but I still feel that we will come up short.

      The squad is still short of real quality and yes that might change in January but there's no guarantee.  All we can do is keeping picking up points and hope that those around us continue to flounder.
      reddebs
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #13: Nov 13, 2013 11:54:33 am
      Let's call it a big five head to head table:

      Manchester United 0-0 Chelsea
      Liverpool 1-0 Manchester United
      Arsenal 1-0 Spurs
      Manchester City 4-1 Manchester United
      Spurs 1-1 Chelsea
      Chelsea 2-1 Manchester City
      Arsenal 2-0 Liverpool
      Manchester United 1-0 Arsenal

      1. Chelsea    P3 W1 D2 L0 PTS5
      2. Man Utd   P4 W1 D1 L2 PTS4
      3. Man City   P2 W1 D0 L1 PTS3
      4. Liverpool  P2 W1 D0 L1 PTS3
      5. Spurs        P2 W0 D1 L1 PTS1

      Upcoming fixtures:

      Liverpool: Spurs (a), City (a), Chelsea (a), Arsenal (h), United (a), Spurs (h), City (h).

      You've missed Arsenal out of the table so it's a big 6 not 5 mate.
      srslfc
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #14: Nov 13, 2013 12:03:01 pm
      I don't think it's impossible but it's highly unlikely, this season.

      I don't see it as highly unlikely Debs.

      Still every chance we can, at the very least, challenge for top spot.
      CoutinhoRed
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #15: Nov 13, 2013 12:12:50 pm
      EDIT:

      Let's call it a big six head to head table:

      Manchester United 0-0 Chelsea
      Liverpool 1-0 Manchester United
      Arsenal 1-0 Spurs
      Manchester City 4-1 Manchester United
      Spurs 1-1 Chelsea
      Chelsea 2-1 Manchester City
      Arsenal 2-0 Liverpool
      Manchester United 1-0 Arsenal

      1. Arsenal    P3 W2 D0 L1 PTS6
      2. Chelsea    P3 W1 D2 L0 PTS5
      3. Man Utd   P4 W1 D1 L2 PTS4
      4. Man City   P2 W1 D0 L1 PTS3
      5. Liverpool  P2 W1 D0 L1 PTS3
      6. Spurs        P2 W0 D1 L1 PTS1

      I think that's right. I knew there was a team missing, but how could I forget Arsenal? ;D

      I think if we can get through our December toughies: Spuds, City, and the chavs all away with no losses, we'll be doing excellent. I'd take three away draws right now, as I'd fancy us to better them at Anfield.
      reddebs
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #16: Nov 13, 2013 12:14:04 pm
      I don't see it as highly unlikely Debs.

      Still every chance we can, at the very least, challenge for top spot.

      Heart and head Si.

      Don't want to get my hopes up too high for us to be down in 7th or 8th come January with a 6 or 7 point gap back to the top.  However if we're still where we are then my expectations would be through the roof  :D
      LondonRed83
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #17: Nov 13, 2013 12:22:09 pm
      Nooooooo don't jinx it.
      nnilswerdna
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #18: Nov 13, 2013 12:26:52 pm
      I've never been one to be overly afraid of putting something out there on forums, something which will be quoted back to you in months and years ahead when it goes spectacularly wrong.

      I'll quote you on that ;O)

      Seriously mate, I'm (quietly) optimistic about this season also.
      Porsgrunn
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #19: Nov 13, 2013 12:28:32 pm
      We've moving forward but its a big jump from 6/7th to 4th and a chasm to top spot. We should take it game and by game and see what happens. If we stay top 4 then lets enjoy the ride. But..........the way this is panning out the games between the big 6 will be 6 pointers - the 2 away over Christmas in 3 days (ManC/ Chelsea) will tell us if we are really capable of top 4.

      January could be important though - a top CM (ohhh if we had Xavi Alonso now) and a decent LB (who can also defend) - could give us a push.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #20: Nov 13, 2013 12:34:12 pm
      We can win the league.  We have as good chance as anybody.  Any real fan will feel the difference this season to the last 5. I agree with Martin Keown when he said on match of the day that we got our tactics wrong with 3 at the back against Arsenal but brendan Rodgers has quickly corrected it and we are capable of a title challenge.  Alan Shearer saying Liverpool aren't real contenders was rediculous.
      « Last Edit: Nov 13, 2013 12:39:23 pm by Ribapuru »
      manwithnoname
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #21: Nov 13, 2013 12:51:34 pm
      We can win the league.  We have as good chance as anybody.  Any real fan will feel the difference this season to the last 5. I agree with Martin Keown when he said on match of the day that we got our tactics wrong with 3 at the back against Arsenal but brendan Rodgers has quickly corrected it and we are capable of a title challenge.  Alan Shearer saying Liverpool aren't real contenders was rediculous.

      Any real fan? Hmm, we were in pretty good shape in 2008/9 with Xabi, Gerrard, Torres and Masher terrorising teams. And we came second that season, and were title contenders for much of it.

      And if it hadn't been for Ronaldo in typical superhuman form at United, we would have done.
      Ribapuru
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      Re: May as well be first...I think we're going to seriously challenge for the title.
      Reply #22: Nov 13, 2013 12:56:24 pm
      Any real fan? Hmm, we were in pretty good shape in 2008/9 with Xabi, Gerrard, Torres and Masher terrorising teams. And we came second that season, and were title contenders for much of it.

      And if it hadn't been for Ronaldo in typical superhuman form at United, we would have done.
      hmmm I thought that was the 07/08 season. I remember we missed out by 2 points in a season Manchester United got a joke of a decision against spurs.  Arsenal held us to a draw in a match we dominated and we drew home and away to Stoke. If my memory is right.

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