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      Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M

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      Rush
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      Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      May 01, 2014 11:10:55 am
      I hope this is in the correct place, if not, mods, feel free to move it

      Aspas, Alberto, Ilori, combined total of around £22m. That's £22,000,000.00p A lot of money.

      Yet one is abroad and the other two?

      Aspas and Alberto don't seem to follow the FSG model of prudent financial competent spends. That's £15m spent on bench warmers. Why, why do this?

      My theory is that transfer committee. I get the feeling they've told Rodgers 'this is what we think you need'. Rodgers has thought 'err...no...' and we're back to a Rafa-Keane-Parry triangle of power struggling again. I.e. If I don't pick them, I'm hardly going to play them!

      It could be Rodgers got it wrong, but surely you need to play these players to find that out? Apart from one or two meaningless games, these players simply haven't been even benched.

      I don't get it

      £15m for....?
      « Last Edit: May 16, 2014 02:05:17 pm by JD »
      Paisleydalglish
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      Re: Mystified
      Reply #1: May 01, 2014 11:15:13 am
      Some transfers work out

      Some don't

      We don't see them in training every day and the gaffer does

      I'd hope that we shop in slightly different baskets this summer, for where we now are.

      Illori will have a future. Aspas probably won't, I'm not sure about Alberto
      « Last Edit: May 01, 2014 11:27:15 am by Paisleydalglish »
      CoutinhoRed
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      Re: Mystified
      Reply #2: May 01, 2014 11:25:18 am
      Alberto and Ilori are for the future. FSG want us to invest in the long term, so that we don't have to keep spending huge amounts every season. They want players who are easier to mould, and those are younger players.
      harrydunn08
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      Re: Mystified
      Reply #3: May 01, 2014 02:38:51 pm

      There were also people who questioned spending 8M on a player who couldn't cut it at Inter, and 15M on a Chelsea reject but both of them worked out well.  As others have said, some transfers work out and some don't.  The good thing about both Ilori and Alberto is that they are young and were both relatively inexpensive (I think in the 7M range).  If they don't work out, we can still probably recoup a few mil which means we will only have lost a few mil on one or both of them.  On the flip side, players like Coutinho and Studge have both doubled in value, so the risk/reward of buying young players makes sense to me. 

      For the record, the few times I have seen Ilori in action (or highlights of his performances) have me believing that he is going to be an absolute monster of a CB.  He is tall, strong, fast, and incredibly athletic, but also elegant on the ball, composed in possession, and highly skilled in his passing/distribution.  In 3 years we will look back at him as a huge bargain!! 

      Alberto seems to have the ability, but he may lack the bottle to play in England.  Seems a bit like a better version of Adorjan.  Tons of quality, but no "X" factor (pace, strength, incredible dribbling, etc) to make him a real threat to well organized teams.
      TheRedMosquito
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      Re: Mystified
      Reply #4: May 01, 2014 02:59:50 pm
      If we didn't snap up Ilori when we did, his price would have either skyrocketed or he would have been picked up by somebody else. 21 (20 when we signed him) is very young for a CB. And he clearly has a lot of potential, and as harrydunn08 pointed out, he's got a very good skill set.

      Both Ilori and Alberto feel like another signings based on potential rather than readiness. Alberto seems to be in the Suso situation last year: Too good for u21s, not good enough yet to be in the XI.

      Aspas simply didn't work out as hoped.
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Mystified
      Reply #5: May 01, 2014 03:03:40 pm
      If we didn't snap up Ilori when we did, his price would have either skyrocketed or he would have been picked up by somebody else. 21 (20 when we signed him) is very young for a CB. And he clearly has a lot of potential, and as harrydunn08 pointed out, he's got a very good skill set.

      Both Ilori and Alberto feel like another signings based on potential rather than readiness. Alberto seems to be in the Suso situation last year: Too good for u21s, not good enough yet to be in the XI.

      Aspas simply didn't work out as hoped.

      Also Brendan has completely rubbished the price paid for him. Now how much cheaper is anyone's guess. It was sometime before Christmas I think when Brendan suggested the £7m was way over what we paid for him.

      I do get where the OP is coming from though even ignoring that and it's an ongoing issue that I hope is sorted with Brendan's new contract. There's far too long a list of players that haven't made an impact or been given a chance once signed/loaned to think that our transfer committee is working as a cohesive unit, something is not quite right at all and it needs fixing for this Summer.
      s@int
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      Re: Mystified
      Reply #6: May 01, 2014 03:07:53 pm
      I hope this is in the correct place, if not, mods, feel free to move it

      Aspas, Alberto, Ilori, combined total of around £22m. That's £22,000,000.00p A lot of money.

      Yet one is abroad and the other two?

      Aspas and Alberto don't seem to follow the FSG model of prudent financial competent spends. That's £15m spent on bench warmers. Why, why do this?

      My theory is that transfer committee. I get the feeling they've told Rodgers 'this is what we think you need'. Rodgers has thought 'err...no...' and we're back to a Rafa-Keane-Parry triangle of power struggling again. I.e. If I don't pick them, I'm hardly going to play them!

      It could be Rodgers got it wrong, but surely you need to play these players to find that out? Apart from one or two meaningless games, these players simply haven't been even benched.

      I don't get it

      £15m for....?

      I agree mate, I don't think Brendan was too pleased with some of our summer signings hence his "no more squad players" stance in January.  I think he has tried to make a point by the limited use he has made of them (and loans). There are also strong rumours that he has demanded more say in transfers in his contract negotiations, but I don't know how true they are?

      I think he probably felt with the small squad he needed better/ more experienced players and has used them more as fill in's rather than full members of the squad for most of the season.
      Swab
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      Re: Mystified
      Reply #7: May 01, 2014 04:28:06 pm
      Brendan Rodgers is part of the committee and has the last word on who is brought in.

      He's stated this more than once.

      Why is this so hard to understand?

      The only reason I can think of is people wanting to create an "out" for the manager when a signing he makes isn't up to the job.

      Alberto and Ilori were both bought as development players.

      Aspas I think (just my opinion here) was bought as a squad option, not to play every match.
      He looked pretty good in pre-season matches, but has really struggled with the pace of the league.
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Mystified
      Reply #8: May 01, 2014 04:30:31 pm
      Brendan Rodgers is part of the committee and has the last word on who is brought in.

      Yeah Swab, but if you don't like Chicken and you're told to order from Nandos you can't be blamed for leaving your meal either.
      Rush
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      Re: Mystified
      Reply #9: May 01, 2014 04:47:20 pm
      Thanks guys for chipping in. Just for the record (re: Swab; it's not a case of me not understanding mate) I'm not criticising Rodgers and the transfer dealings, I'm not really criticising the actual transfer dealings themselves, I was just generally mystified why we'd spend £15m on two players that just don't play or even make the bench on times.

      Thanks all.
      harrydunn08
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      Re: Mystified
      Reply #10: May 01, 2014 04:49:05 pm
      Yeah Swab, but if you don't like Chicken and you're told to order from Nandos you can't be blamed for leaving your meal either.

      Could be an issue that the one BR really wanted didn't fancy us -- Henrick McWhatsisname
      Swab
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      Re: Mystified
      Reply #11: May 01, 2014 04:59:32 pm
      Yeah Swab, but if you don't like Chicken and you're told to order from Nandos you can't be blamed for leaving your meal either.

      Thing is mate, BR has also said that he won't spend money for the sake of it.
      So assuming he isn't telling porkies about his role on the committee and him having the last word, I'd suggest that he saw Aspas as a useful option off the bench but wasn't able to foresee how much he would struggle to adapt, which is fair enough.

      Sorry if I seem to express myself a bit forcefully. It's just that I type as I speak, and I'm a blunt bugger ;)

      It sometimes appears to me that when signings work out, people are quick to praise BR (and rightly so) but when they don't work out, well, then it's the fault of the committee, and it never gets mentioned that BR is the man in charge, with the final say.

      Like all managers, he'll get a few transfers wrong.
      I don't see it as a big deal.

      He's a major part of the process, and if people think he gets bullied or coerced into buying players by the rest of the transfer committee, I think they are barking up the wrong tree.
      bigmick
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      Re: Mystified
      Reply #12: May 01, 2014 05:26:39 pm
      I think much of the problem with the transfer "committee" is not just the selection of players, it's also that it doesn't appear Brendan has the final say in terms of valuation. Clearly he wanted to sign Mikkiwhatsisface, but then it appeared that we had been outbid either in terms of wages or fee so we didn't get him. It may well have been the lack of Champions League football though, so it didn't seem too big a deal. Then however the boss had his heart set on Willian and made it very clear he was a player he really wanted. It's not hard to see why, and at the time I totally agreed with Brendan's words that he is a "brilliant player", and I've seen nothing to prove me I'm wrong since he's been at Chelsea. Not only is he a top player but he would have fit us like a glove. Then we sorted out Salah who is a similar (though nowhere near as good yet) type of player, and once again we weren't prepared to meet the valuation other teams were. I won't even get into the Konoplyanka situation because although that was a farce, none of us really know if it was our fault or theirs.

      Now I know getting outbid happens to everyone and it's part and parcel. I just think it would make it far easier for the manager if he was told at the outset exactly how much money is at HIS disposal, then HE could make the call as to how much of that budget he was going to blow/spend on one player. Now given we didn't buy anybody else after the Willian pursuit, Brendan could probably argue that if he was 30 million quid then he would have represented a fairly modest overall outlay by the owners. Certainly it is my belief that if we HAD got him we would be a few points better off than we are and would therefore have won the title by now. As it was though the players "value" appeared to be decided by other parties, and I think Brendan ought to have the final say.

      For example, if the boss "only" has 25 million quid to spend in the Summer and spends it ALL on Leilana, then most would agree that the fee is incredibly high (that's not to say though that we shouldn't buy him if Brendan makes the call). If on the other hand we plan to spend 60-70 mill, or indeed even more if Suarez is sold (which I think he will be TBH), then getting in Leilana for 25 mill looks sensible.

      It's a long way of saying IMHO Brendan should be told at the outset what his budget is, then it should be HIS CALL how important a player is to HIS plans and therefore how high he's prepared to go.     
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Mystified
      Reply #13: May 01, 2014 05:28:28 pm
      Thing is mate, BR has also said that he won't spend money for the sake of it.
      So assuming he isn't telling porkies about his role on the committee and him having the last word, I'd suggest that he saw Aspas as a useful option off the bench but wasn't able to foresee how much he would struggle to adapt, which is fair enough.

      Sorry if I seem to express myself a bit forcefully. It's just that I type as I speak, and I'm a blunt bugger ;)

      It sometimes appears to me that when signings work out, people are quick to praise BR (and rightly so) but when they don't work out, well, then it's the fault of the committee, and it never gets mentioned that BR is the man in charge, with the final say.

      Like all managers, he'll get a few transfers wrong.
      I don't see it as a big deal.

      He's a major part of the process, and if people think he gets bullied or coerced into buying players by the rest of the transfer committee, I think they are barking up the wrong tree.

      I totally get your side of the argument Swab and see exactly where you're coming from, also no problem with you speaking forcefully.

      For a start I don't think he's getting bullied or coerced but I do have a strong belief that there is something wrong with our transfer committee judging by the way the players bought have been utilised.

      Sahin was the first to spark the mind, the lad was played out of his natural position from the start with us and moaned like a bi*ch about it. He's since criticised Brendan like a spoilt brat and lost plenty of respect in the process, but what that did do was offer up a couple of possibilities:

      a) He was either bought to play in a different position than his natural one
      or
      b) There was better available and he simply had to adapt

      Well it was Joe Allen that took his role in the team in his (Sahin's) natural position. Now we all know Brendan loves Joe but when it later transpires that Brendan also says that Joe is 10% a better player in the in between of the 3 in midfield it again leaves you confused why Allen and Sahin didn't reverse roles.

      That was just the first, then there was the mystery of Assaidi. The lad virtually never played, there was talk that he was a Dalglish signing and I guess we'll never know for sure so we can move on and assume it was.

      Next there's the likes of Cissokho and Moses, players even the young lads are keeping out of the side. Brendan has been clearly been irritated on a few occasions regarding that attacking left sided player. Whether that is Sigurdsson, Dempsey, Mkhitaryan, Costa, Konoplyanka to be left with only Moses after this long into his tenure just screams to me that while Brendan may have the last say he isn't exactly being offered the most appetising of choices.

      All that is even before Alberto, Ilori and Aspas. There's just too much none use of players that Brendan has supposed signed up that makes me think he's not getting what he's asking for from this committee.

      This is why it remains my only doubt about Brendan and as I've expressed above and before I'm not sure if the doubt actually should be with the man himself. While you seem convinced because of what Brendan has said in the media, I'm more open to the suggestion that while someone is indeed the last word and is part of the committee that doesn't necessarily mean he should carry the full weight of the burden.
      Swab
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      Re: Mystified
      Reply #14: May 01, 2014 07:17:02 pm
      I totally get your side of the argument Swab and see exactly where you're coming from, also no problem with you speaking forcefully.

      For a start I don't think he's getting bullied or coerced but I do have a strong belief that there is something wrong with our transfer committee judging by the way the players bought have been utilised.

      Sahin was the first to spark the mind, the lad was played out of his natural position from the start with us and moaned like a bi*ch about it. He's since criticised Brendan like a spoilt brat and lost plenty of respect in the process, but what that did do was offer up a couple of possibilities:

      a) He was either bought to play in a different position than his natural one
      or
      b) There was better available and he simply had to adapt

      Well it was Joe Allen that took his role in the team in his (Sahin's) natural position. Now we all know Brendan loves Joe but when it later transpires that Brendan also says that Joe is 10% a better player in the in between of the 3 in midfield it again leaves you confused why Allen and Sahin didn't reverse roles.

      That was just the first, then there was the mystery of Assaidi. The lad virtually never played, there was talk that he was a Dalglish signing and I guess we'll never know for sure so we can move on and assume it was.

      Next there's the likes of Cissokho and Moses, players even the young lads are keeping out of the side. Brendan has been clearly been irritated on a few occasions regarding that attacking left sided player. Whether that is Sigurdsson, Dempsey, Mkhitaryan, Costa, Konoplyanka to be left with only Moses after this long into his tenure just screams to me that while Brendan may have the last say he isn't exactly being offered the most appetising of choices.

      All that is even before Alberto, Ilori and Aspas. There's just too much none use of players that Brendan has supposed signed up that makes me think he's not getting what he's asking for from this committee.

      This is why it remains my only doubt about Brendan and as I've expressed above and before I'm not sure if the doubt actually should be with the man himself. While you seem convinced because of what Brendan has said in the media, I'm more open to the suggestion that while someone is indeed the last word and is part of the committee that doesn't necessarily mean he should carry the full weight of the burden.

      I'm going to go round the houses a bit with this, but bear with me.

      There was a post a while back about who actually made up the members of the transfer committee, and I remember thinking at the time that the only people with any power were BR and Ayre. That's if my memory is working today and I'm not having another senior moment ;)

      Now, if rumours are true, Ayre has been pulled up by JWH and told to pull his F***ing finger out, which leads me to believe that BR has had a bit of a moan, and JWH has backed him, and rightly so.
      My impression of Ayre in general has never been good. I've said it all along and I stand by it. I think the man's a bit of a spoofer and likes to play politics internally. In fact I'll go a step further and say that he strikes me as a fella who is liable to get involved (needlessly) in power struggles, and fights very hard to protect what he sees as his territory.

      If my impressions of the bloke are correct, or even close to correct then there is a definite issue because on the one hand we have a fella who is very good at bringing in commercial deals, but also very territorial when it comes to the purse strings, which in turn makes for a very tricky situation at the executive level when it comes to weighing the pros and cons of how effective he is in his role.

      On the other side we have BR, who seems to have little interest in the money side of things but appears frustrated by our inability to bring in the players he wants.
      I don't for a second think that money is the only major factor when we have failed to land the players BR wants.
      The other thing we know is that managers, and committees invariably have lists of players who fall into different categories (first team, one for the future, squad player etc), and that they budget for these players according to how much they think the player is worth, which is yet another tricky area.

      Then we have the football side of things.
      A manager can watch all the videos in the world, but they never truly know a player, his capabilities, his strengths, his mentality etc etc until they have trained with them and seen how the player interacts and fits in with his team mates.

      So, going back to the list of Aspas, Alberto and Ilori, I can only really see one player who doesn't seem to fit, and let's be honest here, when he was banging in goals during pre-season, we all had high hopes for him and thought he would do pretty well.
      Then came the reality of the Premier League, and for now we can safely say that he's fallen short of the required quality when he has got on the pitch.

      I'm not sure I'd fault BR for that, because he has proved, to me at least, that he can get the most out of players.

      Alberto and Ilori are both very young, and there is definitely a case to be made for NOT buying good young players and trying to make them into stars when our squad is very thin, but at the same time, if it works out and these players become stars it looks like a stroke of genius at a later date.
      The opposite is true as well, that if they don't develop, the money will be seen as wasted.

      All in all, it strikes me as a bit of a mess, but I think that mess can't be piled at the feet of one person.
      Think of it as a group effort to F**k up.
      Sometimes the wrong players are picked.
      Some players just don't work out for whatever reason.
      Some players are not deemed to be worth the asking price (another F***ing minefield) or wage demands are unrealistic.

      We can add plenty more to that list, but the bottom line is that our transfer woes (if that's what they are) aren't down to one single person, and everyone involved in the process will F**k up at one time or another.

      Lets just be glad federer isn't on the committee, because we'd have paid 50 million for Diame last summer if he was ;)
      Brian78
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      Re: Mystified
      Reply #15: May 01, 2014 07:29:55 pm
      Averages out at say 7.25 million each

      7.25 for a young centre half Im hearing is doing very well in la liga and should have an exciting future here

      7.25 for a young midfielder who when seen seems to have a good brain and could be a good player for us in the future

      7.25 for a forward who I don't think has had a chance to play in his favoured position because the best 2 forwards in the league are ahead of him. Possibly wont make it here

      Ill take hit miss signings for those figures every transfer window once were getting the big money deals right
      NZRed
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      Re: Mystified
      Reply #16: May 01, 2014 08:19:44 pm
      Of those three, Aspas has been a failure, simply not up to the physicality of EPL life, the other two are works in progress. Every report on Illori is glowing and he could well be the defensive cornerstone long term once he's done his apprenticeship. Luis Alberto hasn't had a huge opportunity to prove himself but hasn't let the team down when given a chance. Hard to say whether he's overpriced for a squad man the way prices are these days.

      Aspas should be out the door in the summer (probably at a big loss financially) with the other two continuing to develop.
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: Mystified
      Reply #17: May 04, 2014 09:42:28 am
      Some transfers work out right away, some take longer and some never so that aspect never phases me personally.

      Truth is that I've been more concerned by what appears to be the disconnect between what Brendan wants and what he gets from 'the committee'/'the money men'. I don't think it can be denied that Brendan has shown disappointment on a few occasions when we have missed out.

      Using the previous restaurant analogy  ;D: It looks to me that 'the committee' have went out for a meal and ordered up a sh*t load of side-dishes then realised that, when it came to the main course [the part really Brendan wanted], it was either off the menu or they found out they couldn't afford it.

      Still there were a good few side dishes so no-one should go hungry and we can make do; right? The thing is, when it came to the eating, a few of those side-dishes were a bit disappointing or undercooked.

      Next time  'the committee' eats - Brendan should be fed first; the main course ordered then... the sides.

      F**k knows why but I'm starving now... *slips off to grab some breakfast.  ;D
      « Last Edit: May 04, 2014 01:30:44 pm by bad boy bubby »
      Rush
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      Re: Mystified
      Reply #18: May 04, 2014 10:22:55 am
      Truth is that I've been more concerned by what appears to be the disconnect between what Brendan wants and what he gets from 'the committee'/'the money men'. I don't think it can be denied that Brendan has shown disappointment on a few occasions when we have missed out.
      Well said BBB, this is exactly what I was trying to say though didn't know it :D
      bigmick
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      Re: Mystified
      Reply #19: May 04, 2014 12:50:18 pm
      It's like when you was a kid and wanted your first pair of Addidas "Kick" trainers, and your Mum and Dad bought you a pair from Woollies and your Dad told you "these are probably made in the same factory, just as good!".

      He was wrong, they weren't and they aren't.
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      Re: Mystified
      Reply #20: May 09, 2014 11:31:13 am
      I think Alberto might be good, Aspas and Ilori have to go IMO, give Coates a go.
      Swab
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      Re: Mystified
      Reply #21: May 09, 2014 12:49:30 pm
      I think Alberto might be good, Aspas and Ilori have to go IMO, give Coates a go.

      Mate, Ilori is out on loan, doing very well, and is widely regarded as one of the best defensive prospects at the club, plus he's a couple of years younger than Coates.
      racerx34
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      Re: Mystified
      Reply #22: May 09, 2014 01:32:33 pm
      I think if Brendan is given the funds to bring in the first targets we have,
      rather than the fourth or fifth, then we wont be having this discussion.

      It's always going to be a risk signing 7-8 million euro players.

      The ones that would have kept our season on track are the ones we fu**ed
      about with, the 20-30 million euro players.

      Not signing them has ultimately cost us the title.
      reddebs
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      Re: Mystified
      Reply #23: May 09, 2014 03:07:38 pm
      Mate, Ilori is out on loan, doing very well, and is widely regarded as one of the best defensive prospects at the club, plus he's a couple of years younger than Coates.

      Ilori is regarded as one of the best defensive prospects in the world mate, never mind the Club  :nod:
      Swab
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      Re: Mystified
      Reply #24: May 09, 2014 03:41:28 pm
      Ilori is regarded as one of the best defensive prospects in the world mate, never mind the Club  :nod:

      I thought so, but couldn't be arsed checking, so I dialled it down a notch ;)
      reddebs
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      Re: Mystified
      Reply #25: May 09, 2014 03:51:01 pm
      I thought so, but couldn't be arsed checking, so I dialled it down a notch ;)

      Although I quoted your post mate, my comment was aimed more at those who keep questioning his ability or why we bought him :gt-happyup:
      MarkMitt
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      Re: Mystified
      Reply #26: May 12, 2014 09:26:04 am
      As for Aspas, I don't think he's had sufficient minutes to be able to pass reasonable judgement on. But toward the end of the season,even though he gave his all, Luis looked tired.  Maybe Aspas could have gained more minutes here.

      As for the real agenda here regarding transfers, the truth is we honestly don't know the stance of the owners. For example, we were after Salah. That was no secret. It wasn't a vast sum of money being asked for him considering the potential there. But we flapped about and made a pigs ear of it and ultimately lost out. Now the general concensus is Ayre fu**ed around quibbling about a million or so and cost us the deal. But what's to say FSG or even Brendan simply didn't rate him as highly as Basel were asking? After all, BR has brought through Raheem who is arguably better than Salah, and at a fraction cost wise. Why pay more for someone who can do the same job,  albeit not quite as well?

      The process involved in getting players is not transparent to us fans,  so we can only post comments of our distaste or disappointment,  or joy, without ever fully understanding of who is responsible and why.
      NZRed
      • Forum Matt Busby
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      Re: Mystified
      Reply #27: May 12, 2014 09:42:40 am

      After all, BR has brought through Raheem who is arguably better than Salah, and at a fraction cost wise.

      Good point. You could make similar statements regarding development of Henderson, Flanagan, etc. this season

      Next season - bringing on an Illori, Teixera, Suso, Wisdom, Coady or McLaughlin might prove a better investment than splurging millions on an Aspas or Alberto, or loaning in the likes of Moses or Cissoko.

      I'm really excited to see what BR can do with our youngsters next year, developing talent seems a real strength of his and hopefully that will continue in the future.

      MarkMitt
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      Re: Mystified
      Reply #28: May 12, 2014 11:18:25 am
      Good point. You could make similar statements regarding development of Henderson, Flanagan, etc. this season

      Next season - bringing on an Illori, Teixera, Suso, Wisdom, Coady or McLaughlin might prove a better investment than splurging millions on an Aspas or Alberto, or loaning in the likes of Moses or Cissoko.

      I'm really excited to see what BR can do with our youngsters next year, developing talent seems a real strength of his and hopefully that will continue in the future.



      Those that are willing to work under Brendans guidance, ie pull their finger and work hard alà Henderson,  will flourish.  Those who aren't willing,  will be gone. Here's hoping they recognise the opportunity and grasp it with both hands.

      cezar_sl
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      Re: Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      Reply #29: May 17, 2014 01:28:16 pm
      Illori is good, but you can't experiment with centrebacks. You can't sub him in at 70 minutes because you destabilize the defensive unit. That's why he went on loan.

      Aspas was supposed to be a mini Suarez. But with us not going that far in cups, and with Suarez being made of steel and playing every game, there was no room for him. Still, every time Moses came on instead of him ...

      Alberto is also good, and has proven that on the pitch. But, remember his recent incident with the law. That might be indicative of some attitude problems. I don't think BR will reward him with starts if that doesn't change.
      MIRO
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      Re: Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      Reply #30: May 17, 2014 01:30:23 pm
      Yeah Swab, but if you don't like Chicken and you're told to order from Nandos you can't be blamed for leaving your meal either.

      You crack me up Luke  :lmao:
      crouchinho
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      Re: Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      Reply #31: May 17, 2014 01:36:50 pm
      I think Alberto might be good, Aspas and Ilori have to go IMO, give Coates a go.

      What in the name of sweet F**k?

      :mad:
      NZRed
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      Re: Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      Reply #32: May 17, 2014 08:38:43 pm

      Yep. Would like to see Illori actually pull the shirt on before making any judgement!
      Swab
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      Re: Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      Reply #33: May 17, 2014 08:41:29 pm
      I'll tell you what's F***ing mystifying, is people wanting Ilori out of the club when he's been on loan (and doing very, very well) and hasn't played for us yet.

      It's beyond ridiculous.
      In fact, it's F***ing embarrassing.
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      Reply #34: May 17, 2014 08:45:37 pm
      I'll tell you what's f**king mystifying, is people wanting Ilori out of the club when he's been on loan (and doing very, very well) and hasn't played for us yet.

      It's beyond ridiculous.
      In fact, it's f**king embarrassing.

      Can only put it down to people not following his progress.

      While I haven't watched much of him playing I've tried to keep up with reports and by all accounts he's been excellent. He's perfect for how I believe Brendan wants to play and I would not be surprised if he is close to pushing his way into the first team by the end of next season, perhaps even earlier.
      s@int
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      Re: Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      Reply #35: May 17, 2014 09:15:53 pm
      Can only put it down to people not following his progress.

      While I haven't watched much of him playing I've tried to keep up with reports and by all accounts he's been excellent. He's perfect for how I believe Brendan wants to play and I would not be surprised if he is close to pushing his way into the first team by the end of next season, perhaps even earlier.

      I think history doesn't really give us much confidence when it comes to loans though mate. When was the last time we loaned someone out and they came back to make a career here? Usually a loan is the precursor to the player being sold.

      Hopefully under Brendan things may change, but usually the players that we loan come back to find that they are still not considered good enough for the first team and that someone has stepped up and taken their place in the reserves. Leaving them with no other real option than to either go out on loan again or find a new club.

      We have a few out on loan at the moment that could change that imo :- Suso, Wisdom and Ilori fingers crossed they do.
      fishpie
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      Re: Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      Reply #36: May 17, 2014 10:09:21 pm
      I agree with swab, I've been hearing very good things about Illori, with big clubs already after him. He could turn out to be great, with his pace and passing. Then Big teams like may want him (maybe?) and not only would we miss him being in our team but his value would increase drastically.
      Not all players are already known quantities, there will be new faces and names in development now obviously.
      I know we could of used that money for a instant starter, I guess sometimes you just have to get players like that when they're available. Too good of a bargain.
      Haven't seen enough of Alberto yet. isn't it a good thing to have players we don't quite realise the quality of? Than have no future at the club with no players ready to burst onto the scene.
      Aspas may have become our saviour if Suarez or Sturridge got injured or banned. I understand why we got him but it hasn't really panned out.
      Thaddeus
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      Re: Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      Reply #37: May 17, 2014 10:49:53 pm
      I'm not that mystified.

      Aspas, whenever I've seen him play (friendlies mostly) actually looks like a decent player. Lets not hold that one corner at chelsea against him. He looks solid. Nowt spectacular though, so he couldn't dislodge the two best strikers in the league. Thats not really a crime.

      Illori looks like better business every time I've seen him play. I don't think my view on him having great potential is too controversial.

      Alberto - I cannae say how good this signing was because we haven't seen him play really. All I can say is that not every cheap young player becomes Coutinho and breaks into the first team immediately. That doesn't mean they never will, and that it is bad business. Furthermore, not every purchase is going to be a hit. That's life Jim and doesn't necessary mean due diligence was done before the purchase.
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      Reply #38: May 17, 2014 11:23:42 pm
      Haven't seen Ilori kick a ball yet so I can't make any judgment. Good to hear the positive reports about his tine in Spain though, sound promising.

      I don't actually believe Alberto was bought for the future, I'd say Brendan was hoping to use him a little more this season, but couldn't make room for him with every result being so crucial. I don't think Brendan would have sold Shelvey unless he thought Alberto could do a job for us.

      I feel sorry for Aspas, his pre season was full of promise, but when it came to the Premier league, it was like a case of " welcome to the big-time "! Maybe when your playing in a team with S&S it's hard to make yourself look good enough.
      NZRed
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      Re: Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      Reply #39: May 18, 2014 01:21:47 am
      I don't actually believe Alberto was bought for the future, I'd say Brendan was hoping to use him a little more this season, but couldn't make room for him with every result being so crucial. I don't think Brendan would have sold Shelvey unless he thought Alberto could do a job for us

      Agreed, also he wasn't perhaps needed as much as anticipated because we had a pretty fortunate run this season without major injuries to key players, meaning there wasn't a great need to call on back up options (except at left-back). With extra games next season he can expect a better run in the team (unless other players are bought in ahead of him).
      Rush
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      Re: Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      Reply #40: May 18, 2014 06:52:03 am
      For my part, my inclusion of Ilori wasn't so much to ask why buy him if you're not going to play him, it just didn't dawn on me that some youth are for the future and are loaned out - that's a legitimate reason for not having him here.

      As for Aspas and Alberto, my question was more a case of 'what did anyone ever see in them'.
      yacster
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      Re: Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      Reply #41: May 18, 2014 01:18:14 pm
      I was critical of ilori's signing but he is going to prove an excellent signing. He kept messi and co out recently and I think he ll be in the mix next season.

      Aspas is limited. Whether he ll be happy to be 4th choice next season I am not sure. If we sell him we won't lose too much.

      Alberto is interesting. His recent drink driving incident may complicate things in terms of Rodgers' trust. But a good loan and he may come good.

      We will lose a lot less on those even if none of them make it than we did on downing. Don't even start me on Carroll
      Scally21
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      Re: Mystified
      Reply #42: May 18, 2014 08:45:49 pm
      It's like when you was a kid and wanted your first pair of Addidas "Kick" trainers, and your Mum and Dad bought you a pair from Woollies and your Dad told you "these are probably made in the same factory, just as good!".

      He was wrong, they weren't and they aren't.

      Christ Mick, you must have been in a worst state than me then. I was always gutted to be given Gola. I was dead made up with me Hi-Tech Silver Shadows though ;D

      Brendan has always been full of contradictions on the matter. Seem to recall that the 'committee' was always one of his ideas so as to abate any financial duress on FSG. Wasn't he who said an FSG member would be part of said committee? Maybe his own rationale of his plan to them might not have worked out in the favour or advantage that Brendan might have hoped for.
      Hollywood Balls
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      Re: Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      Reply #43: May 18, 2014 10:16:30 pm
      Ilori will come good for the future.

      Alberto is lacking pace but there is evidence of a cracking player there. His passing range is excellent and, very attacking for a continental player. He has good game intelligence and could be a success if he is given a protracted run.

      Aspas has shown some good flashes in his play technically but I have to admit I have been puzzled by his mentality. From early reports I thought he would be like a mixture of Costa and Suarez but I haven't see much evidence of that. Hopefully he will fare better in the second season.
      srslfc
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      Re: Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      Reply #44: May 18, 2014 10:30:00 pm
      I'll tell you what's F***ing mystifying, is people wanting Ilori out of the club when he's been on loan (and doing very, very well) and hasn't played for us yet.

      It's beyond ridiculous.
      In fact, it's F***ing embarrassing.

      Indeed.

      Some bizarre chat on here recently.

      Del Boca Vista
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      Re: Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      Reply #45: May 18, 2014 10:51:33 pm
      Alberto could be anything, Illori could be anything. Back them in people, this is real life, this is our football club, these are real human beings, kids in fact, that want to make it at Liverpool FC. This is not FIFA 14. Give them your faith and you will be rewarded.
      verde-rubro
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      Re: Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      Reply #46: May 18, 2014 11:00:29 pm
       Ilori with another clean sheet and 90 mins under his belt tonight.
      BR has to bring him back and play him in the cups even  in the PL against one of the lesser teams
      DaktionLFC
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      Re: Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      Reply #47: May 19, 2014 05:37:48 am
      I just hope we don't bring in any loan players this window.

      I truly think we should be playing our own players every minute of every match.  especially in tournies like CL.  this experience directly benefits the player and why keep pumping out someone else's asset?

      the whole moses / aspas thing gets brought up once in a while.   yes they are two very diff players but everytime we bring out a loaned player... there is possibly another LFC player that could've been selected sitting on the bench.   look how game time has improved Flanagan, hendo, allen, sterling especially ....  lets give our own LFC lads the precious game minutes.  you can train all you want... doesn't hold a candel to a real game situation
      federer
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      Re: Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      Reply #48: May 19, 2014 06:24:43 am
      Shocking to think that last summer when Suarez was itching for a move away, Aspas had to come out and clarify that he would not be Suarez's replacement:

      http://www.espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1476713/iago-aspas-not-replacing-luis-suarez-liverpool?cc=5901

      just think about that for a second.

      Some people actually thought Aspas would have been the replacement for Suarez.

      just.... try to wrap your mind around that.
      reddebs
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      Re: Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      Reply #49: May 19, 2014 10:41:59 am
      Shocking to think that last summer when Suarez was itching for a move away, Aspas had to come out and clarify that he would not be Suarez's replacement:

      http://www.espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1476713/iago-aspas-not-replacing-luis-suarez-liverpool?cc=5901

      just think about that for a second.

      Some people actually thought Aspas would have been the replacement for Suarez.

      just.... try to wrap your mind around that.

      Why bother when we've had an amazing season and we've got next season to look forward to  :mad:
      Swab
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      Re: Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      Reply #50: May 20, 2014 12:49:28 pm
      For my part, my inclusion of Ilori wasn't so much to ask why buy him if you're not going to play him, it just didn't dawn on me that some youth are for the future and are loaned out - that's a legitimate reason for not having him here.

      As for Aspas and Alberto, my question was more a case of 'what did anyone ever see in them'.

      A perfectly fair question was what you asked mate, and indicated you knew Ilori was playing abroad.
      What I mean by a "fair question" is that you asked why pay that money and not play him. The obvious answer being that we paid for potential and got in before other big clubs came sniffing round. It happens all the time with all the major clubs, and some work out while others don't, as I'm sure you know.

      No, what I'm referring to is people saying things like "he's done nothing", apparently not even realising he's out on loan, and "get rid now" when he could quite easily become one of the best in Europe, and therefore the world ;)
      It's F***ing mind boggling to me that someone can profess to be a fan, but not know a thing about one of our most exciting young players.
      I know not everyone follows every aspect of the club, but ffs, this is basic stuff.   :mad:
      reddebs
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      Re: Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      Reply #51: May 20, 2014 03:43:32 pm
      No, what I'm referring to is people saying things like "he's done nothing", apparently not even realising he's out on loan, and "get rid now" when he could quite easily become one of the best in Europe, and therefore the world ;)
      It's F***ing mind boggling to me that someone can profess to be a fan, but not know a thing about one of our most exciting young players.

      Some people just see football as the 1st team only mate, not everyone has the time nor the inclination to look beyond that.  In the good old days players arrived then disappeared into the reserves for a season or two, sometimes we'd even forgotten we had them till they appeared on the team sheet.

      Nowadays it's totally different, we can follow their progress through the official site, facebook, youtube, twitter, forums and also lfc.tv.  There really is no excuse for people to not know how our young lads/new signings are doing but as I said not everybody is interested.
       
      Swab
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      Re: Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      Reply #52: May 20, 2014 05:32:23 pm
      Some  just see football as the 1st team only mate, not everyone has the time nor the inclination to look beyond that.  In the good old days players arrived then disappeared into the reserves for a season or two, sometimes we'd even forgotten we had them till they appeared on the team sheet.

      Nowadays it's totally different, we can follow their progress through the official site, facebook, youtube, twitter, forums and also lfc.tv.  There really is no excuse for people to not know how our young lads/new signings are doing but as I said not everybody is interested.

      Yeah, I know mate, but if people don't know who a player is, or how good he is, should they really be commenting on whether or not we should keep him?

      I'm not going to be a snob about the level of knowledge of the team and ressies people have, but it seems daft to make a very negative comment if someone doesn't know a thing about the player apart from not seeing his name on the team sheet.
      reddebs
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      Re: Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      Reply #53: May 20, 2014 06:12:33 pm
      Yeah, I know mate, but if people don't know who a player is, or how good he is, should they really be commenting on whether or not we should keep him?

      I'm not going to be a snob about the level of knowledge of the team and ressies people have, but it seems daft to make a very negative comment if someone doesn't know a thing about the player apart from not seeing his name on the team sheet.

      Probably not mate but it isn't going to stop them  ;D
      CoutinhoRed
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      Re: Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      Reply #54: Nov 15, 2014 10:28:06 am
      How are these chaps of ours doing this season then?

      Heck, if Aspas were still here, he'd be our no.1 striker.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      Reply #55: Nov 15, 2014 12:52:28 pm
      How are these chaps of ours doing this season then?

      Heck, if Aspas were still here, he'd be our no.1 striker.

      He would, wouldn't he? rofl

      http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php/topic,46939.0.html
      Son Of A Gun
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      Re: Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      Reply #56: Nov 15, 2014 04:18:46 pm
      These three players.... what a terrible waste of money.

      I was sure Illori would make it, but he's struggling at Bordeaux and looks increasingly unlikely to ever play a game for Liverpool.

      What a sorry state of affairs.
      MIRO
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      Re: Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      Reply #57: Nov 15, 2014 04:46:32 pm
      Brendan Rodgers is part of the committee and has the last word on who is brought in.

      He's stated this more than once.

      Why is this so hard to understand?

      The only reason I can think of is people wanting to create an "out" for the manager when a signing he makes isn't up to the job.

      Alberto and Ilori were both bought as development players.

      Aspas I think (just my opinion here) was bought as a squad option, not to play every match.
      He looked pretty good in pre-season matches, but has really struggled with the pace of the league.

      It needs repeating SWAB  especially for Brendan who has now been making sound bites about others influence.
      He took the job on total control or nothing .
      He got it.

      He took the plaudits on 2nd place however it was achieved.
      He takes the sh*te now.
      He accepts his win percentage.
      MIRO
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      Re: Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      Reply #58: Nov 15, 2014 04:51:25 pm
      Shocking to think that last summer when Suarez was itching for a move away, Aspas had to come out and clarify that he would not be Suarez's replacement:

      http://www.espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1476713/iago-aspas-not-replacing-luis-suarez-liverpool?cc=5901

      just think about that for a second.

      Some people actually thought Aspas would have been the replacement for Suarez.

      just.... try to wrap your mind around that.

      Yes Fed.... and he was given  the No. 9 shirt previously worn by legends of this club !
      JustMingle
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      Re: Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      Reply #59: Nov 16, 2014 01:21:41 pm
      Yes Fed.... and he was given  the No. 9 shirt previously worn by legends of this club !

      If he were at the club now, ... I'D START HIM!!

      could anyone state he is worse than the 3 fit strikers currently at the club ?
      TheRedMosquito
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      Re: Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      Reply #60: Nov 16, 2014 02:18:00 pm
      Yes Fed.... and he was given  the No. 9 shirt previously worn by legends of this club !

      Legends like El-Hadji Diouf, Djibril Cisse and Andy Carroll!
      shabbadoo
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      Re: Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      Reply #61: Nov 16, 2014 02:29:19 pm
      Legends like El-Hadji Diouf, Djibril Cisse and Andy Carroll!

       He said Legends not Leg ends :D
      LFC-LCFC
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      Re: Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      Reply #62: Nov 16, 2014 03:05:03 pm
      Legends like El-Hadji Diouf, Djibril Cisse and Andy Carroll!

      All of whom were a country mile better than Aspas.
      Rush
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      Re: Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      Reply #63: Nov 16, 2014 08:12:04 pm
      Unfortunately, the actual number of a shirt doesn't mean half as much as it used to

      23 not withstanding of course
      5timesacharm
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      Re: Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      Reply #64: Nov 17, 2014 12:22:17 am
      Unfortunately, the actual number of a shirt doesn't mean half as much as it used to

      23 not withstanding of course

      The shirt is worth what it's always been worth - the calibre of the player wearing it. Sadly that calibre has dropped in recent years.
      handbrake2
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      Re: Mystified - Alberto, Aspas, Ilori and the £22M
      Reply #65: Nov 17, 2014 02:41:39 am
      I see everyone saying that Ilori is one "for the future". We have serious CB issues now so why not use him? He is the same age as Varane and if there was any rumour that we were buying him there would be a (happy) riot. The difference between the 2 is that Varane was given the chance in the first team by a manager who understands how to coach defence. If we are not careful Ilori will go from on loan to sold to Spanish team X and we will be left wishing we could only find a decent CB somewhere.

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