Fabio Borini (Sunderland/QPR)

I'd like to hear what people think he brings to the table?

For myself, I don't think he is quick enough to truly frighten defenders, I don't think he has the tricks or skills to go at players one on one and beat them and he doesn't have the strengths to be an ox up front who can play with his back to goal and bring others into play and neither have I seen anything spectacular in terms of his passing range.

What I see is a hard working player with a good engine and a good attitude who makes some intelligent runs (both for himself and others) and also a lad who has some good instincts when he is in the box.
 
At least that is my assessment. The question is, is that enough? I don't think it is.

On the other hand he could be next year's Jordan Henderson but I suspect not.

Good point Scott and why I personally only see him as a 4th choice striker. He has the personality and attitude to stay fit and keep himself ready while sitting on the bench which is an attribute that can't be knocked. I do think he has the mentality and determination to improve and he can get goals of various types but he is not great in any aspect of the game.

I think he's a similar player to Dirk Kuyt with slightly better speed but worse physicality. Let's not be unfair on the lad, they absolutely love him at Sunderland and he's done a good job for them in a team that's scored only 41 goals. Of course he's part of the reason behind that low tally but put him as the main striker in our side and he probably would get 15 or so in a season.

4th choice he's good enough, as main back-up we need better. Man City have Jovetic as their 4th choice striker to put it in perspective so those that think we should cash in and use the money elsewhere may regret that decision. I've said before that I wouldn't be against selling him and bringing in a young lad who could develop up the ladder because there's little doubt in my mind that Borini will be never challenging for even 2nd place in our tier of strikers but for now I think we'll keep him and he could well be forced to be our 3rd choice for a season as we've more pressing issues elsewhere in the squad.

Brendan's quote about Fabio after the Shamrock friendly:

"Borini is back to add to our quality, I thought he was excellent v Shamrock. You saw with his pace and his power and his ability to get a goal that he's going to add to the quality that we already have."

I think its obvious Fabio will be our third choice striker next season, I believe that was always the plan when we loaned him out last season.

Doesn't seem as though hes going anywhere.

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/162996-boss-fabio-is-back-to-add-to-our-quality

Boss: Fabio is back to add to our quality

Brendan Rodgers has backed Fabio Borini to supplement Liverpool's attacking ammunition next season after the Italian forward made a goalscoring return for the club on Wednesday night.

With the necessity for more experience of the Barclays Premier League in mind, the 23-year-old agreed a loan move to Sunderland for the entirety of the 2013-14 campaign.

The decision proved fruitful for all parties; Borini racked up 40 appearances and fired 10 crucial strikes for the Black Cats as they avoided relegation and reached the League Cup final.

This week, the No.29 was back on duty with the Reds, shining throughout his display at the Aviva Stadium and curling a sublime second during a 4-0 friendly triumph over Shamrock Rovers.

Rodgers was impressed and, following an explanation of why the spell with Sunderland was crucial for Borini's development, the manager predicted a bright future for the striker.

"I thought he was excellent," said the Northern Irishman, who made the Italy international his first signing as Liverpool boss in the summer of 2012.

"With Fabio, it was just a case of we had Daniel Sturridge and Luis Suarez, who I felt were going to play a lot of games; we didn't have so many games with no European football. Luis is so robust, he plays every minute of every game and he's a world-class striker.

"So for Fabio's development - and nothing to do with not thinking he's a quality player, because I know him better than anyone - he needed to go out and get games to prove his worth. He's done that.

"He'll now come back a year later into our squad in the summer; you saw with his pace and his power and his ability to get a goal that he's going to add to the quality that we already have."

What I see is a hard working player with a good engine and a good attitude who makes some intelligent runs (both for himself and others) and also a lad who has some good instincts when he is in the box.

I seem to recall that Pippo Inzaghi had similar criticisms (Cruyff once said:  “Look, the thing about Inzaghi is he can’t actually play football at all. He’s just always in the right position.”) leveled at him, but I don't think too many would look back at his career now with anything but admiration.  I personally see loads of similarities and parallels between Borini and Inzaghi....  Pippo bounced around from club to club as a young man (5 clubs in 5 years) before finally having a breakthrough campaign in Atalanta when he was 23 years old (Borini just turned 23 in March).  I also see similarities in the playing styles of the two.  When playing with the Italian U-21's, Fabio likes to play as an out and out striker/poacher.  He is always hanging on the shoulder of the last defender looking to get in behind and he is always looking for an opening to shoot (just like Pippo used to do).  However, during his first year here and his loan spell at Sunderland he has been asked to play a number of different roles.  He has often times been asked to play as an outside forward/midfielder or as a support striker, none of which are his "natural" positions, but the encouraging thing is that he has played fairly well in these roles this season and he has been continuously improving while at Sunderland.  I still believe that his best position is as an out and out striker, fox in the box, poacher style player, and I remain confident that he will put his best foot forward with us next season and have his "breakout" campaign while helping us to a quartet of trophies (Prem Title, FA Cup, League Cup, and CL) 

YNWA Fabio

I'm sorta 50/50 on this. I like Borini quite a bit due to his attitude and workrate. He does have potential IMO. But at the same time, if Sunderland come in with £12+ million for what will be our third-choice striker, that's a pretty reasonable sum to go out and get another striker.

CL)

That's a decent comparison to be fair mate and we'd be delighted if Borini could go on and have a similar career to Inzaghi, he certainly did us some damage in 2007!

For me, rather than needing this 3rd striker at everyone keeps talking about ie. someone who doesn't play that often but can do a job from time to time. I'd rather see us sign someone who pushes to be first choice as a wide player but can also play in the 9 shirt. That for me is what the modern day forward is all about.

i'd keep him. we're gonna need him with the number of games.

Keep him. He'll be our 2nd automatic choice to take a Penalty Kick. Never know could come in handy in a Champions League Final.  Now we have to find another 3.

Slightly off-topic and slightly tongue-in-cheek (but only 'slightly') here...

All this talk about 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th choice strikers has got me confused: I'll readily admit to that. So just to try to clarify where I am with my take on it...

In the season just gone we played a couple of attacking formations: three at the front and two at the front.

When we played with two the "1st choice strikers" were Suarez and Sturridge. When we played with three the "1st choice strikers" were Suarez, Sturridge and Sterling.

Therefore; when we played with a two [Suarez and Sturridge] it follows that Sterling became the "2nd choice striker" if either were injured/subbed... with Raheem moving up front.

If we played with a three [Suarez, Sturridge and Sterling] the fact is our "2nd choice striker", if either were subbed, was either Aspas or Moses. Our "2nd choice strikers". However, more often than not, when either were called on, Brendan reverted to a two. Why? Well, in my opinion, that was because neither were good enough to be "2nd choice striker".

If we, finally, land that quality wide attacker/striker Brendan has been seeking, the chances are he'll play in a mobile, interchangeable front three. Or, if you prefer, he too will be a "1st choice striker".

If that is how things pan out then "2nd choice" cover, for a front three, will come from Sterling, Coutinho and a.n. other [Borini?]: with either Sterling or Coutinho being moved up front from midfield and the other occupying the role left by the other. Or Borini used as a direct replacement - the choice is Brendan's.

So by my reckoning if Borini stays and if we sign that quality forward then he will, in effect, be a "2nd choice striker". Simples. 

 

Perhaps the problem with Fabio is his abortive first season with us. Had Sunderland signed him from Italy the season just gone and that had been his debut season in the Premiership, I should imagine most people would be pretty happy if we were signing him as a squad player to back up Danny and Luis. Given his age, attitude, potential to improve etc he definitely showed enough at Sunderland last season to make it a possibility he could kick on.

The boss seems to really like him, that'll do for me.

I really like Borini...and Brendan seems to think he's a trick up his sleeve so I hope he sticks around and does a good job for us. If he can develop he's very young and could do a job for us for a long time.

I just can't see Borini scoring enough goals. Our game is built around prolific strikers scoring lots of goals. Take away Borini's penalties and he just doesn't score enough. Yes, he will get a lot more chances to score with us than with Sunderland, but for me he doesn't have enough about his game to get the goals we need.

Great character and hard working ... I can understand why any manager would like him.... more Kuyt than Fowler though.

IF he stays, he's more than likely only ever going to be possibly starting in the domestic cup games and then warming the bench the rest of his time.
If he gets a cob on after being told that, well then fair enough, he's clearly got ambitions to be a regular starter. Move him on - if we can recoup most of what was spent on him.

The time at Sunderland has done him good, got plenty of game-time. He's done well enough, but for LFC he's a 4th choice striker option imo. If we got a good offer from Sunderland, I'd take it and use the cash to invest in a better forward. If we buy in guys like Lallana (who have goals in them), BR could go into next season with 3 *really good* (guys you would play up front against the top6) striker options, not sure we will have 4 of those (and I wouldn't put Borini in that category).

I'd like to hear what people think he brings to the table?

For myself, I don't think he is quick enough to truly frighten defenders, I don't think he has the tricks or skills to go at players one on one and beat them and he doesn't have the strengths to be an ox up front who can play with his back to goal and bring others into play and neither have I seen anything spectacular in terms of his passing range.

What I see is a hard working player with a good engine and a good attitude who makes some intelligent runs (both for himself and others) and also a lad who has some good instincts when he is in the box.
 
At least that is my assessment. The question is, is that enough? I don't think it is.

On the other hand he could be next year's Jordan Henderson but I suspect not.

Movement.

He has incredibly intelligent movement - it's so good that it will take time for our midfield to be able to read his plays and pick him out but if they manage he is precisely what we need to unpick teams that park the bus which is what we will probably face next season.

EDIT: just read harrydunn's post - good analysis and I agree with it. Borini will create space and be in the right position to receive the football. Inzaghi is a good comparison for his style.

Movement.

He has incredibly intelligent movement - it's so good that it will take time for our midfield to be able to read his plays and pick him out but if they manage he is precisely what we need to unpick teams that park the bus which is what we will probably face next season.

EDIT: just read harrydunn's post - good analysis and I agree with it. Borini will create space and be in the right position to receive the football. Inzaghi is a good comparison for his style.

He does have excellent movement but in truth, when your playing a team that parks the bus having just movement isn't enough, in fact I'd argue a player like Borini is at his least effective against the bus parkers because he doesn't have much in his locker to beat a player in order to drag other defenders away from their position. Movement surely is more important (and effective) against teams that afford some space to move into?

He does have excellent movement but in truth, when your playing a team that parks the bus having just movement isn't enough, in fact I'd argue a player like Borini is at his least effective against the bus parkers because he doesn't have much in his locker to beat a player in order to drag other defenders away from their position. Movement surely is more important (and effective) against teams that afford some space to move into?

However, teams would be less inclined to park the buss if SaS wasn't playing which would play to his strengths. The simple fact is that with Aspas is almost certain to leave, we can't play in four competitions with only two strikers at the club. So why waste money on buying a new striker, probably from abroad, who would need time to acclimate to the Premiership when we have one who is perfectly good back up and wants to fight for his place at the club? Selling him neither makes strategic nor financial sense.

However, teams would be less inclined to park the buss if SaS wasn't playing which would play to his strengths. The simple fact is that with Aspas is almost certain to leave, we can't play in four competitions with only two strikers at the club. So why waste money on buying a new striker, probably from abroad, who would need time to acclimate to the Premiership when we have one who is perfectly good back up and wants to fight for his place at the club? Selling him neither makes strategic nor financial sense.

It makes perfect sense IF you have come to the conclusion that he wasn't worth the £12 million the club paid for him in the first place and someone else is willing to get somewhere ear that figure.

And as for a replacement. As I've said a couple of times earlier in the thread. We don't have to go out. And buy an out an out number 9. Why it buy someone who can challenge to start in wide areas who is also able to do a job in the 9 shirt. That makes. The most sense to me.

I guess it is all budget related. If there is a ton of money for Brendan to spend then great, keep players like Borini and give them another shot. If not, I'd test the market.

I just can't see why everyone is so I pressed by his spell at Sunderland which was decent but not much better than that in my Opinion.

It makes perfect sense IF you have come to the conclusion that he wasn't worth the £12 million the club paid for him in the first place and someone else is willing to get somewhere ear that figure.   I just can't see why everyone is so imressed by his spell at Sunderland which was decent but not much better than that in my Opinion.

Everyone pretty much knows what I think about Borini but I'm in total agreement with you here Scott.  the way some talk about Borini's time at Sunderland, you would think he scored 40 goals or something.  He scored 7.  Wow.  Seven.  Skrtel scored 7 for us this year....

And he won the "Sunderland Young Player of the Year Award."  So what exactly is a young player at Sunderland---say, under 25?  well I just looked at their squad and there are only 2 players under 25.  Connor Wickham and some Greek winger who played four games called Mavrias.  So basically, Borini was better than Wickham and Mavrias.  Wow.  I'm really impressed.  Borini was better than two players who barely played, on a team that barely escaped relegation.  I would be very surprised if anyone here watched more than 1 game in which he played all season.  I watched 2.  And he was.... well he was Borini. 

First of all, "he works hard" is sort of the last thing someone says when a footballer has nothing else going for him.  Like a fat, ugly, dumb woman who everyone says "well... she has a nice personality."  And the truth is he doesn't work THAT hard.  If you want to look at a footballer who works hard, keep your eyes on Suarez for the 90 minutes he plays game in and game out.  He F***ing never rests.  It's unbelievable.  He's the best player on our team but also the hardest worker.  what a player.  "Working hard" should be a prerequisite for being at Liverpool Football Club, not some kind of bonus quality in a footballer.

anyway, back to Borini.  In several games last season he didn't track back and didn't chase down the keeper etc---to his credit he was by no means the only Liverpool player not always giving 110%, but when this is apparently his best attribute---that he "works hard"---you would hope that he'd show a little more. 

But honestly, what concerns me the most is his lack of pace and technique.  He has very little skill on the ball, his first touch is poor and he gave it away constantly while he was here.  And he's not fast enough to play on the wing.  He comes up with a few cracking shots every now and then (he scored that worldie in the derby against Newcastle this season, unbelievable goal), but then again Babel came up with stunning goals every now and then too and that wasn't enough.

Rodgers said clearly that he wants players who have good technique and skill.  Borini has neither.  He's not fast enough to play on the wings and yet he'll never play through the middle with Suarez and Sturridge ahead of him in the pecking order.  So what is the point of keeping him?  why not bring in someone like Bony, who is strong, fast, and DOES have good technique?   

We have Suarez, Sturridge, Sterling, Borini and Ibe for the "front-3" assuming you put Coutinho as an attacking mid (and of course, we sell Aspas & Assaidi). We are definitely in for one "premium" signing for the attacking positions, taking the count to 6; 4 really good players & 2 squad players (Borini & Ibe)

Borini will be sold IF and ONLY IF Sunderland pay what we paid for him AND we get a similar, better player who can play across the front-3 IN THE SAME PRICE BRACKET. So, he aint leaving unless we get two versatile attackers, say two of Shaqiri, Konoplyanka, Tello, Son Heung-min, Julian Brandt.

BR has repeatedly stressed the importance of bringing in VERSATILE players. Is Bony that? I'm not sure.. plus if he is going to be our PREMIUM signing cos he is gonna cost close to 20mil, I'll take Shaqiri over him anyday of the week and anytime of the day.

Everyone pretty much knows what I think about Borini but I'm in total agreement with you here Scott.  the way some talk about Borini's time at Sunderland, you would think he scored 40 goals or something.  He scored 7.  Wow.  Seven.  Skrtel scored 7 for us this year....

And he won the "Sunderland Young Player of the Year Award."  So what exactly is a young player at Sunderland---say, under 25?  well I just looked at their squad and there are only 2 players under 25.  Connor Wickham and some Greek winger who played four games called Mavrias.  So basically, Borini was better than Wickham and Mavrias.  Wow.  I'm really impressed.  Borini was better than two players who barely played, on a team that barely escaped relegation.  I would be very surprised if anyone here watched more than 1 game in which he played all season.  I watched 2.  And he was.... well he was Borini. 

First of all, "he works hard" is sort of the last thing someone says when a footballer has nothing else going for him.  Like a fat, ugly, dumb woman who everyone says "well... she has a nice personality."  And the truth is he doesn't work THAT hard.  If you want to look at a footballer who works hard, keep your eyes on Suarez for the 90 minutes he plays game in and game out.  He f**king never rests.  It's unbelievable.  He's the best player on our team but also the hardest worker.  what a player.  "Working hard" should be a prerequisite for being at Liverpool Football Club, not some kind of bonus quality in a footballer.

anyway, back to Borini.  In several games last season he didn't track back and didn't chase down the keeper etc---to his credit he was by no means the only Liverpool player not always giving 110%, but when this is apparently his best attribute---that he "works hard"---you would hope that he'd show a little more. 

But honestly, what concerns me the most is his lack of pace and technique.  He has very little skill on the ball, his first touch is poor and he gave it away constantly while he was here.  And he's not fast enough to play on the wing.  He comes up with a few cracking shots every now and then (he scored that worldie in the derby against Newcastle this season, unbelievable goal), but then again Babel came up with stunning goals every now and then too and that wasn't enough.

Rodgers said clearly that he wants players who have good technique and skill.  Borini has neither.  He's not fast enough to play on the wings and yet he'll never play through the middle with Suarez and Sturridge ahead of him in the pecking order.  So what is the point of keeping him?  why not bring in someone like Bony, who is strong, fast, and DOES have good technique?

I don't think he had a decent season. He had a decent finish. He scored 3 league goals in 30 games.  Then  2 penalties,  then two more goals. Not counting the penalties, he scored 5 goals from open play in 67 shots. That is roughly a goal every 12 shots.  Suarez had 33 goals. He took no penalties from 181 shots. That's a goal every 6 shots. Sturridge had 21 from 99,.so that's more like 1 in 5. Sterling 9 goals from 45 shots. Exactly 1 goal from 5 shot ratio. For a striker a goal from every 12 shots is very very poor. The norm is 5 or 6 from us. He's not young,  he's 23. He's 4 years off his peak where the best he will be is acceptable then he'll be constantly injured at 29. Why some people are so keen to keep him to watch him blossom into something that's nowhere near as good as what we've already got is still amazing me. He's on par with what Ngog was like at 22. Ngog is no better now he's 25. Ngog did well for the French youth teams just as borini has Italian. I think Borini is an Italian Ngog.

Not counting the penalties, he scored 5 goals from open play in 67 shots. That is roughly a goal every 12 shots.  Suarez had 33 goals. He took no penalties from 181 shots. That's a goal every 6 shots. Sturridge had 21 from 99,.so that's more like 1 in 5. Sterling 9 goals from 45 shots. Exactly 1 goal from 5 shot ratio. For a striker a goal from every 12 shots is very very poor.

I'm not what you could call Fabio's biggest fan Ripa but I'm not sure 'goals to shots' ratio tells the full story of a player's prowess as a striker.

As you point out both Sterling and Sturridge's goals to shots ratio is better than Suarez's but where were those shots taken from: six yards out to an empty net; thirty yards out, 'round a crowded goal area; what?

One goal for every twelve shots [outside the box] might just be an excellent return, whilst one goal for every five shots [from six yards] might be sh*te.

Where did you get those stats Rib; got a link?

The norm is 5 or 6 from us.

Fair enough but a couple of questions.

What's "the norm" for Sunderland? And...

In your opinion; would you expect anyone coming from Sunderland, [inc. Borini], to improve on their 'ratio' in our attacking set-up?   

I like how Fabio's detractors want to compare him to the best striker in the game right now on form (Suarez) and slate him because his stats aren't as good.

Got news for people, Messi and Ronaldo's stats pale compared to Suarez as well.


I'm not saying he's a world beater, but he's still getting up to speed with the premier league and you can see his progression unless you don't want to because you have some other personal issue with him. Instead of comparing him to the starting strikers, compare him to other backup strikers in the league because let's be honest, that's what he is...a backup.