Fabio Borini (Sunderland/QPR)

Still a bit confused as to what this debate is all about as well.

Makes for a good read if you want to drift off to sleep though 

Borini I'd like to go as long as we can replace him with someone of similar age and hopefully better quality.

If not he stays as we need to be as competitive as possible this season and irrelevant of who's better, by having both of them we remain competitive to an extent.

Still feel we need another striker though as well as the two mentioned.

Lambert at 32 would never command the same transfer fee as a young up and coming player such as Borini though HB so I'm not really sure of the relevance .

Still a bit confused as to what this debate is all about as well.

In brief, the question was whether Borini was right to stay at the club and give it a shot or whether he should have jumped ship to Sunderland.

I said that, as things currently stand, it would make logical sense for him to stay as Sturridge is likely to get injured and Borini would naturally back himself to get games as his main competition was Ricky Lambert who has played at a lower level for nearly all of his career.

This prompted a bizarre discussion with people trying to prove that the manager values Lambert more highly than Borini by pointing to the fact that we have agreed a fee with Sunderland or that Lambert has played in a World Cup.

b) acknowledge the existence of the transfer committee Manager who have has decided on the fee that they would be happy to see Borini leave for (almost the cost of the two players combined).

I don't acknowledge the committee is making the final decision as that would be me acknowleding Brendan as a bold faced liar which I do not. We are not skint for cash and the manager does not need to "Sell to Buy" if he wanted Borini here because he would help the team and was offered 20 million for Fabio then we would not have accepted the offer.

I'll spell it out for you one last time, as things currently stand, Borini has every right to stay and back himself to get games this season

He has the right (by contract) to stay if he wants...pretty sure he will not have a place on the bench come match day so in that case I am sure he can prove his worth playing on the reserve squad

Whatever happens this window, the manager has made his decision to bring Borini in as his first signing and at a much higher price than he was willing to pay for Lambert

#1 He brought him in 2 years ago and obviously the manager has had a change of heart regarding Fabio

#2 What price was he willing to pay for Lambert? I have neither seen nor heard on any price cap that Brendan put on Lambert..could you provide a link please?


But yes you are correct in say he has a right to fight for his place.

In brief, the question was whether Borini was right to stay at the club and give it a shot or whether he should have jumped ship to Sunderland.

I said that, as things currently stand, it would make logical sense for him to stay as Sturridge is likely to get injured and Borini would naturally back himself to get games as his main competition was Ricky Lambert who has played at a lower level for nearly all of his career.

This prompted a bizarre discussion with people trying to prove that the manager values Lambert more highly than Borini by pointing to the fact that we have agreed a fee with Sunderland or that Lambert has played in a World Cup.

Got it.

I like Lambert but I tend to agree with you that out of the players currently in the sqaud I'd have Borini as next in line if Sturridge was out.

Just as a type that though it makes it clear we need another striker in this window.

I don't acknowledge the committee is making the final decision as that would be me  acknowleding Brendan as a bold faced liar which I do not.


He has the right (by contract) to play in the reserves if he wants...He will not have a place on the bench come match day



#1 He brought him in 2 years ago and obviously the manager has had a change of heart regarding Fabio

#2 What price was he willing to pay for Lambert? I have neither seen nor heard on any price cap that Brendan put on Lambert..could you provide a link please?

1. You quoted an article which acknowledged the existence of the transfer committee. They have decided on a price that they are happy to see Borini be transferred out for - whatever that price is is irrelevant to the discussion as explained previously. Because they are happy to make a profit on the player does not mean they rate Lambert higher than him. It is a non sequitur.

2. We shall see if Borini is frozen out to play with the reserves or not - let's see what happens and whether you are man enough to eat your words if he ends up staying and getting games this season.

3. No idea how much his cap for Lambert was or what his cap for Borini was - what we DO know is that when he had the money he decided to spend it on Borini rather than buying Lambert at a fraction of of the cost. Case closed.

 

You quoted an article which acknowledged the existence of the transfer committee. They have decided on a price that they are happy to see Borini be transferred out for

I quoted and article in which the manger said the committee is there to assist him but he has final say on all personnel decisions, ergo you are correct Brendan is happy to see him go and cash in on him.

No idea how much his cap for Lambert was or what his cap for Borini was - what we DO know is that when he had the money he decided to spend it on Borini rather than buying Lambert at a fraction of of the cost. Case closed.

He bought Borini 2 years ago...and bought Lambert to replace him 2 years later, and by all reports is looking to bring in another striker.

So yes as you say CASE CLOSED, but I will be happy to "eat my words" as you say should Borini force his way into starting line-up.

Only a fight to the death can resolve this issue!! A duel I say

I quoted and article in which the manger said the committee is there to assist him but he has final say on all personnel decisions, ergo you are correct Brendan is happy to see him go and cash in on him.

He bought Borini 2 years ago...and bought Lambert to replace him 2 years later, and by all reports looking to bring in another striker.

So yes as you say CASE CLOSED.

you clearly have issues with reading comprehension. As i said, your "point" is irrelevant to the discussion.

Taking your ridiculous argument to it's logical conclusion you could just as easily state that Brendan rates Lambert higher than Suarez since he has "cashed in" on the latter and brought Ricky in to replace him.

Can you see how stupid that sounds?*


(*I'm guessing you can't - don't worry it's a rhetorical question.)

you clearly have issues with reading comprehension. As i said, your "point" is irrelevant to the discussion.

Taking your ridiculous argument to it's logical conclusion you could just as easily state that Brendan rates Lambert higher than Suarez since he has "cashed in" on the latter and brought Ricky in to replace him.

Can you see how stupid that sounds?*


(*I'm guessing you can't - don't worry it's a rhetorical question.)

No not really.

You state the committee for whatever reason they deemed decided to cash in on Borini; all I did was state that in fact it was Brendan that makes the final decision and that he himself has decided to "cash in" on Fabio.

As for Fabio's right to stay and fight..on that matter you are correct he has a binding contract and if he stays so be it.

It will be up to Fabio to impress the gaffer to keep him/play him...as of now the gaffer wants rid of him.

We shall see the conclusion is.

No not really.

You state the committee for whatever reason they deemed decided to cash in on Borini; all I did was state that in fact it was Brendan that makes the final decision and that he himself has decided to "cash in" on Fabio.

As for Fabio's right to stay and fight..on that matter you are correct he has a binding contract and if he stays so be it.

It will be up to Fabio to impress the gaffer to keep him/play him...as of now the gaffer wants rid of him.

We shall see the conclusion is.

I just want to point out that there is a difference between "wanting rid of a player" and "willing to sell a player for the right fee"

If BR "wanted rid" then I doubt he'd have played him in the preseason friendlies. Just my take though....

You're missing the point - I'm not the one ruling out those clubs because of an anecdote about how a lower league player didn't work out one time.

I think the point is that in the past teams were prepared to take risks on lower league players like an Ian Rush from lowly Chester. These days if you weren't spotted as a 12 year old and brought into the system then your name needs to be Lambertini Lamberkovski or Lam Bert Ho to be signed by a big club.

It maybe quite straightforward...... Suarez leaving puts a large dent in our goals tally. This means the attackers on the pitch need an improved conversion rate to compensate, and I would guess from their stats Brendan sees Lambert as a better bet to stick a chance away than Borini...??

I just want to point out that there is a difference between "wanting rid of a player" and "willing to sell a player for the right fee"

What about 'willing to get rid of a player for the right fee'? 

We can argue 'til the cows come home about semantics and over who, the committee or Brendan, 'decides' but at the end of the day, the only undisputed veto a manager has over a player is whether he plays him or not. If Brendan doesn't fancy Borini (or any player) he won't play.

The fact that he loaned him out and kept Aspas as our only back-up would suggest, to me anyhow, that Brendan didn't and doesn't 'fancy' him and has written it off to experience... you win some, you lose some.

In my opinion; I can't see Borini staying but if he does, I can't see him starting too many games (even in rotation). The price is merely an added bonus.

Really?

The day after his 23rd birthday Ricky Lambert moved to League Two club Rochdale for an undisclosed fee -so you're right that can't be compared to the 14 million pound bid Sunderland made for Borini.

Obviously there is a difference when he was in league 2, the price will be different.

I am talking about right now, quit bringing up the past or the future. It is pointless and does no good for LFC in the present.

Even after his brave season with Sunderland, how many would want us to buy Borini, if he wasn't already here? Based on pre Liverpool and Sunderland era.

Even after his brave season with Sunderland, how many would want us to buy Borini, if he wasn't already here? Based on pre Liverpool and Sunderland era.

not me I wouldn't have bought him in the first place.Nice kid but just not good enough when teams buy you then get shut there must be something wrong and he had about 5 teams in a very short time.

not me I wouldn't have bought him in the first place.Nice kid but just not good enough when teams buy you then get shut there must be something wrong and he had about 5 teams in a very short time.

Totally agree seen him at Swansea and his work rate was excellent but I he didn't standout as a top forward reminded me a bit of kuyt lots of effort but not really the skill, thought we paid well over for him.

The manager has bought him to LFC and this is now the third different club he has worked with him at so he clearly sees something valuable in him.

Obviously there is a difference when he was in league 2, the price will be different.

I am talking about right now, quit bringing up the past or the future. It is pointless and does no good for LFC in the present.

OK then right now Borini is rated as a 14 million pound striker and right now Lambert is rated as a 4 million pound striker so like I said he has every right to back himself.

Lambert 2012-2014 prem games 75 goals 28
Borini all Prem games 68           goals 14.
does that need explaining.

OK then right now Borini is rated as a 14 million pound striker and right now Lambert is rated as a 4 million pound striker so like I said he has every right to back himself.

Aquilani was 20mill and was a bag of sh*te. Torres 50mill for Chavs, and he can't hit a barn door. etc etc, take your pick of examples. What a club is willing to pay for someone is subjective. When looking at a striker, I'd pay more heed to Walton's recent games player/goals scored record.
Sure, that probably isn't good stat for someone who might be considered 'up-and-coming' (ie. they are on the upslope/improving) - but he's been up and coming for what, 4 years now ?

Really don't think there will be a need for Borini at the club once we bring in a striker. We now have players capable of playing as the number 9 should one of our forwards get hurt.

I would be amazed if we got 14 million £ for him, just can't see Sunderland or anyone paying that amount, I honestly think he will end up back in Italy probably on loan if we can get a decent striker in.
If we can't get anyone in the next 2 weeks we may just have to hold on to him and hopefully he can stay fit and help us get goals.
If he was up top with DS he would at least do the running and closing down for DS

Aquilani was 20mill and was a bag of sh*te.

Far from it actually, when he played you could really see his technical ability and some of the link up play between him, Gerrard and Torres was very good! He just struggled with injuries but for some reason because he struggled with injuries a lot of people seem to think that means he was sh*te.

Really don't think there will be a need for Borini at the club once we bring in a striker. We now have players capable of playing as the number 9 should one of our forwards get hurt.

When he returned from injury towards the end of the season (2012/13), he came on as a sub a few times and I remember him scoring against Newcastle with what I think was his first or second touch. Then in the game after that I think he hit the post with a good effort.
The point I'm trying to make is that if he was able to keep coming off the bench or filling in as and when and having that sort of impact then he wouldn't be a bad player to have around. At Sunderland he had a pretty decent season and put in some very good performances, especially against Manc Citeh so maybe if given the chance he could prove to be a handy player to add some reliable depth to the squad. But if we got a good offer of the £14mill then we should accept it and let him move on. If he decides to reject a move away from the club it wouldn't be the end of the world because Rodgers said he wants to have players that are dedicated to the club and really want to be here and if Borini is happy to stay and fight for his place then that can only be a positive thing because it might help him become a better player.