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      Does Brendan Need A Trophy *This* Season?

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      srslfc
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      Does Brendan Need A Trophy *This* Season?
      May 27, 2014 11:43:07 pm
      Now let me make this clear in the first sentence that this isn't an attack on Brendan but more a discussion as to when we expect the boss to deliver some silverware.

      When Brendan was appointed he followed Kenny who had just won our first piece of silverware in 6 years and many of us thought it was a platform to kick on from and progress towards more tophies and challenging for the title. Obviously Kenny lost his job and FSG clearly felt that the League Cup was less important than getting back into the Champions League and progressing to challenging for the League title.

      Brendan came in and the owners ambitions for CL football was clear and the manager spent the first season finding his feet but ultimately failing to deliver any tangible success in his first season. A disappointing League finish was added to going out of both domestic cups early on and losing in the Europa League in the first knock out stage but the indictaions where there that he possibly could move on in his second season and build on the great form we had in the second half of the season.

      Not being in European competition gave Brendan a little less to worry about, if that's the right term, last season and as we know we went on to have our best League season in quite some time and only lost out on the last week of the season to a strong City side who were many people's tip for the title. But we yet again fell short in the domestic cups going out in the fourth round of the League Cup but faring a little better in the FA Cup and narrowly losing to Arsenal in the 5th round.

      So going into next season will see us having gone two seasons without silverware and if we end the season empty handed will be three years without a trophy. Now I'm not sure if there is a definitive answer but when does it become neccessary for Brendan to put a trophy in the cabinet?

      Is it a case of we are back in the CL next season and we also want to build on our impressive league form of the season just gone so we almost bypass the domestic cups again and drop out in the early stages to give the squad more chance of a much heavier work load. Or does anyone feel that there should be a bit more pressure on the manager to deliver some silverware alongside the impressive league form while also finding his feet in his first season in Europe's premier compeition.

      I'm not sure we are currently equiped to sustain the type of League campaign we have just had alongside playing in the CL and expect a win in either of the domestic cups but at the same time I think we as a club expect success and as good as finishing second last season was it is not success as most of us would measure it.

      Is next season seen as another building season to further build the squad, maintain and possibly better our league form, while forgetting about any trophies?

      Or should there be some pressure on Brendan and the players to deliver a trophy while doing all of the above?

      Interested to hear the thoughts of the forum on this one.
      « Last Edit: Oct 02, 2014 01:59:23 pm by JD »
      reddebs
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      Re: Does Brendan Need A Trophy Next Season?
      Reply #1: May 28, 2014 12:11:11 am
      Great OP Si with some interesting points raised.

      For me next season is still a building year and as such most of the focus should be on another title challenge and retaining our CL place in the process.  Regardless of how well our recruitment goes this window, there'll still be a settling in period and Brendan himself will need time to learn how and when to rotate players when we have midweek games.

      I'd like to see us using predominantly squad players and the best of our youngsters in the domestic cups, especially the League cup.  I really don't see what's to be gained having the likes of Stevie, Luis, Studge et al involved in those early rounds, regardless of who we draw.

      I certainly don't think it's necessary to put undue pressure on Brendan to win silverware this coming season, obviously if it happens then great but the main focus should be the league and CL. 

      The following season we'll be far better placed to go all out for 4 trophies  ;D
      s@int
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      Re: Does Brendan Need A Trophy Next Season?
      Reply #2: May 28, 2014 12:15:54 am
      Cracking opening post mate.

      I think a lot depends on the backing he gets in the transfer market. If he gets the backing we all hope for, he should have enough quality and a big enough squad to challenge on all fronts. If not, he may be forced to concentrate on making sure we get CL again next season.

      I think Brendan has done enough already that most people will give him time if we don't do any better in the cups, but maybe FSG might not be as understanding if we fail to get CL ?

      I think the reality will be that we will concentrate on the league and the CL using the early rounds of the cups to experiment and give a few squad players a chance to show what they can do. If we progress than I think he will start to take them more seriously, especially if our league challenge is restricted to top 4 rather than the title by early results.

      I do think it will be much harder for Brendan next season even with a good transfer window behind him. More matches usually means more injuries and more travel equates to tired players. Even a bigger squad brings its own problems.

      I would love us to win the league , but if Brendan gets us CL again and a cup I think he should count it as a very good season. I know I would.

      I think the CL will be a learning curve for Brendan, anything past the group stages would be a bonus.... but you never know !

      I didn't expect to finish second, I didn't expect a title challenge so maybe I am still readjusting my sights, but a cup would be nice, even nicer if it was old bigears, but no pressure.... not next season anyway.





      Kharhaz
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      Re: Does Brendan Need A Trophy Next Season?
      Reply #3: May 28, 2014 12:21:07 am
      If it were not for Howard Webb, we would have won a trophy THIS season.

      However, I don't think there is any pressure on Rodgers to get a trophy. He has already worked wonders to get us where we are regarding Champions League, the only pressure I would give is same again next season. Maintain top 4 performances. And then next season, bring in more players then start to worry about trophies.
      staffletop
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      Re: Does Brendan Need A Trophy Next Season?
      Reply #4: May 28, 2014 12:30:31 am
      Does Brendan Need A Trophy Next Season?  No
      He needs to have another good crack at the league, although it may be harder next season.
      He also need to qualify from the group stages of the CL.

      I wouldnt say no to the title or CL or FA cup. :)
      PaulKG
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      Re: Does Brendan Need A Trophy Next Season?
      Reply #5: May 28, 2014 02:12:10 am
      Very good topic and some good points raised. I don't think there is any definitive answer, but one thing Im sure is that we will be winning many trophies in the next decade and hopefully afterwards. Its just a matter of time when that first will come, I wouldnt be too dissappointed if we don't win anything next season, especially with it being our first year back in the CL, but I would certainly hope for something in the next 2 years or so...
      harrydunn08
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      Re: Does Brendan Need A Trophy Next Season?
      Reply #6: May 28, 2014 02:23:25 am
      Does he need one next season? - No.

      Does he need one soon (in the next 2-3 seasons)? - Yes.

      Could he use one next season? - Of course. 

      Would we all appreciate a trophy sooner than later? - Silly question!

      As others have mentioned, expectations can be raised (or lowered) depending on the transfer activity and signings we make this summer.  A very good summer with a big financial outlay could well raise the bar of expectation to require a trophy next season to satisfy the club hierarchy.  However, as things stand now I think that another season of "progress" even if it comes without any silverware will still be viewed as success as we will continue to move in the right direction.  By progress I mean sustaining another title push while doing better in the domestic and European cups than we did this season. 
      fishpie
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      Re: Does Brendan Need A Trophy Next Season?
      Reply #7: May 28, 2014 03:31:59 am
      Good question OP
      Think everyone is happy with the rate of progress so far in a short amount of time. His philosophy about the style of football, even after he changed from passing teams to death, leads me to believe he must be a great coach to get players to work so hard and play lethal attacking football with high energy work rate when we aren't in possession.
      *breathes*
      Long sentence that.
      He can instil a way of playing in short space of time. which is quite amazing really.

      Your question about the trophies- if the hard work is put in then success will follow.
      You're asking something different I know, like will Liverpool fans add pressure onto him the longer he's here, even if we are behind him and we don't see no silverware to show for all the efforts.

      I am realistic about this, we aren't entitled to assume we should have something because we have had a good history.
      This is a new era and we can't live in the past with regards to that.
      He looks, acts and has us playing like future champions, so I expect the fruits of labour to come because of that.

      As long as we are fighting and challenging next season then that's all I can hope for. I can't demand he needs to win a trophy or more than one.

      If we are like wet damp rags with no sign of ambition then that's a different story.
      billythered
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      Re: Does Brendan Need A Trophy Next Season?
      Reply #8: May 28, 2014 05:14:53 am
      Great OP Si,

      I'm with Debs & S@int on this, I think as part of the rebuilding process it's a perfect time to use the full squad,
      Obviously the main two comps are league & CL,
      By utilising the young guns and unused fringe players in the domestic cups will help build confidence as well as blooding potential first teamers,

      It would be fantastic if a cup or 3 happened but like most sustaining CL and a title challenge is our bread & butter not forgetting the spondoolies that come with it,

      So overall no, don't think putting BR under added pressure to win some tin is wise atm.


      YNWA
      Billy1
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      Re: Does Brendan Need A Trophy Next Season?
      Reply #9: May 28, 2014 05:28:00 am
      Does Brendan need a trophy next season, too bloody true he does, that would apply to any manager of Liverpool Football Club. I am getting too old for near misses and would dearly love to see us do a EPL/European Cup double one more time just to remind me of the good old days when winning the league was expected.
      AussieRed
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      Re: Does Brendan Need A Trophy Next Season?
      Reply #10: May 28, 2014 07:28:36 am
      One?

      I want 4  :couch:

       ;)
      JD
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      Re: Does Brendan Need A Trophy Next Season?
      Reply #11: May 28, 2014 10:37:48 am
      I wrote an article yesterday on Anfield Online

      http://www.anfield-online.co.uk/editorial/2014/editorial-rodgers-deserves-silver-now-must-deliver-fans/

      I'd say he certainly needs at least a substantial cup run next season, probably to the final - and the fact we can go 14 games unbeaten should be a good indicator that this is possible.

      Rodgers has played in 7 competitions whilst at Liverpool.  6 have them have ended fairly disappointingly with only last season's League competition something worth shouting about where we finished runners up.

      Coming second year in year out may please the owners, but ultimately the fans expect Liverpool to win silverware.  In any competition first is first and second is nowhere.  If the title is again to prove elusive, I'd trade a second place finish with a 4th and the FA Cup.
      nikos
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      Re: Does Brendan Need A Trophy Next Season?
      Reply #12: May 28, 2014 11:39:06 am
                 Too early to say!

                This is mostly a question its answer should be sought when the ''squad's strengthening'' according to BR's exact words takes shape. The whole thing is dependable on the kind of strenthening we are talking about. If for example the owners indulge this summer in a spending spree then the answer would be "yes". The side is strong enough to be once more within the title contenders  having the privious season's experience through mistakes made either tactical or in-game by individuals.
       
                  If we invest in developing a strong solid defense by the adding of experienced with leading traits units combined with the massive improvement of our midfield and attack and given that L.Suarez stays, the answer is still ''yes''!

                  Whatever the case  gonna be we have to keep low profile and not put unnecessary pressure on the manager or the players. A team that has been away from the league title for so many years all they have to do is going out on the pitch and win games approaching each and every match seperately considering its standards and difficulties and the outcome will be decided by the final point tally.

                   At the end of the day reaching the point we are at now  is like a title in itself. Silverware is another thing. The most decisive step has been taken in the last season.
                     
      « Last Edit: May 28, 2014 08:34:36 pm by nikos »
      ozi_wozzy
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      Re: Does Brendan Need A Trophy Next Season?
      Reply #13: May 28, 2014 12:37:51 pm
      Great post. I don't think Brendan NEEDS a trophy, it would be nice but I wouldn't want the fans or the owners to preassure him into it. I think it's really important to retain CL for a second season running to establish ourselves as a top club, rather than a one-off AND also challenge for the league again.

      Even if he gets good backing and brings in some top players with a sqaud in depth, I still wouldn't be bothered with the lack of silverware if we challenged for the title like we did this time round.

      I'd be pleased with the league cup,  happy with the FA cup, over the moon with CL but the real money-shot is in the PL. CL and PL is what we should focus on year-in, year-out...but absolutely no preassure on the gaffer. It will take time and effort.
      JD
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      Re: Does Brendan Need A Trophy Next Season?
      Reply #14: May 28, 2014 12:44:43 pm
      retain CL for a second season running to establish ourselves as a top club

      Two things.

      1) We ARE a top club

      2) Footballers go to clubs that are fighting to win things.  Running round pitches with trophies, open top bus parades, silly hats, their kids holding trophies - that's what they love.  That FA Cup win will have given Arsenal's players a real impetus for next season and a hunger for more - they will feel a real sense of achievement.

      Did Anfield at the final whistle when we finished second look like a carnival for the players or fans?

      Our title charge this season was enjoyable because it showed we can be competitive again.  And the whole reason we want to be competitive is to go on and restock English football's biggest trophy cabinet.
      Eddieo
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      Re: Does Brendan Need A Trophy Next Season?
      Reply #15: May 28, 2014 12:59:09 pm
       Four

       I would probably except CL qualification on it own if we play an extra 12 - 15 competitive game.

       It is hard to say now without knowing who's coming in and going out

       
      dunlop liddell shankly
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      Re: Does Brendan Need A Trophy Next Season?
      Reply #16: May 28, 2014 01:11:39 pm
      There's always pressure on the manager and players of Liverpool Football Club to win trophies.

      I hate the old arguments of "would you take the League Cup over European Cup football" because there's no reason we shouldn't be competing and challenging on all fronts. I've heard some other clubs fans asking whether they'd take a trophy but get relegated, this is coming from the fans of clubs who should not be fighting relegation so they have every right to expect their club to go for domestic cups.

      We, should not be fighting relegation and should be fighting at the top end of the table but still expect decent domestic and European cup runs.

      Do we necessarily need a trophy? It depends on what the owners value as success. As Si pointed out in the opening post, winning the League Cup (a trophy) wasn't enough for the owners because we failed to get anywhere near the top four. I'm not too sure about that outlook because I think in all honesty the owners wanted to just get rid of Kenny, after his behaviour during the Suarez racism saga (I personally think Kenny was right to back Luis as much as he did) and the fact that FSG didn't appoint Kenny, it was the fans who did. They knew (know) F**k all about football and tried to get on the right footing with the fans by appointing Kenny.

      Brendan followed that season up by getting no closer to the top four and without the domestic cup. But, he was FSG's choice, and they stuck by him. So, I don't think the owners will feel a trophy is a must - as long as we're back in the Champions League next year.

      For the fans, yes a trophy is needed for that competition to be a success. Winning the League Cup in 2012 didn't make it a successful season but it made a successful campaign. Finishing runners up in the League this season didn't make it a successful season but made it an enjoyable campaign.

      If we fail to win anything next season it'll be disappointing but that doesn't mean it can't be any enjoyable campaign.
      srslfc
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      Re: Does Brendan Need A Trophy Next Season?
      Reply #17: May 28, 2014 02:21:05 pm

      Is it really though?

      And if is is then when is the right time to say and start asking the question?

      Personally I think the manager of Liverpool Football Club should always be under at least some pressure to deliver silverware and having too much leniency from above has the potential to breed a culture that doesn't expect.

      I know the answer would probably be different from us supporters and FSG as they would more then likely be comfortable with another season or two just being in top four and competing in the CL. I think most of us supporters wouldn't see that as enough and if anything, and like JD said above, many of us would accept a top four and a cup win above just a second place finish and competing in the CL.

      I said in my opening post that I don't think our current squad can sustain a league campaign like we have had last season along with CL football and final appearances in both cups but I do expect the squad to be added to quite considerably this summer. With this in mind I do think there has to be some expectation on the manager and players in regards to winning something next season even if it means just missing out again.
      CoutinhoRed
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      Re: Does Brendan Need A Trophy Next Season?
      Reply #18: May 28, 2014 03:02:46 pm
      I'm going to make this short and simple..

      He doesn't need a trophy next season to ensure that he is doing a good job. What he needs to do is show the progression of the team, of the club throughout the entire season. If Brendan can get us again pushing hard for the league and having a decent run in Europe, to me that's progression.

      We have to be careful about the League Cup and FA Cup. Np doubt both are nice to win, but staying within the top four will be a monster of a task in itself. The day we finish outside that top four is the day we resume our downward spiral. Trophies are nice, but only the Prem and CL truly matter. The FA cup and carling cup have been devalued over the years. If we finished 5th but won the FA cup, would you take that over a good run in the CL and league?
      srslfc
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      Re: Does Brendan Need A Trophy Next Season?
      Reply #19: May 28, 2014 03:08:49 pm
      If we finished 5th but won the FA cup, would you take that over a good run in the CL and league?

      In a word yes.
      CoutinhoRed
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      Re: Does Brendan Need A Trophy Next Season?
      Reply #20: May 28, 2014 03:21:03 pm

      Cool

      Given that we make good progression. Over the 2014/15 season, I would say we definitely need to get our hands on silverware the season after.

      Fa Cup is still classed as a major trophy yes,  but only just. As a goid example, look at the teams Chelsea and City both fielded. Disrespectful or just plain stupidity?

      I would take 4th and FA cup. I want us in Europe. A club of this magnitude demands that. Patience is the key!
      racerx34
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      Re: Does Brendan Need A Trophy Next Season?
      Reply #21: May 28, 2014 03:23:06 pm
      Never mind Brendan, my kid needs a Liverpool trophy.
      Get it done lads.

      He's still not fully accepted we let it slip. (Sorry Stevie)
      FL Red
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      Re: Does Brendan Need A Trophy Next Season?
      Reply #22: May 28, 2014 03:37:41 pm
      Does Brendan need a trophy to satisfy whom?

      FSG - No, they've pledged their allegience to him with his new deal.
      Supporters - I suppose that's the real question, but regardless of what we all think or feel, he's obviously going to be the boss for the foreseeable future. I think we should be winning something next season but that would require Brendan being backed by the owners.
      Himself - I'm guessing he's made it a personal goal to go get hardware next season with the likely desires being the league title or Big Ears.

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