Does Brendan Need A Trophy *This* Season?

FSG - No, they've pledged their allegience to him with his new deal.

I think this is key.

If Brendan had failed in the league again (6th to 9th) as he did in the cups I think we might well have been seeing next season either with a new manager or more likely as Brendan's last chance. Small squad or no and even with the lack of backing in the transfer market, the pressure would have been on.

Thankfully an impressive league performance has taken a lot of the pressure off him, but while failure (even in all comps) next season wouldn't see him go it would mean the pressure and the questions about his future would return.

CL qualification would no doubt satisfy our owners, but I think he needs to show something in the cups (not necessarily winning one) as well if he wants the pressure to remain off him. (if we don't get a title challenge)

Minimum for owners :- CL qualification

Minimum for Supporters :- Title challenge or CL qualification and a good run in at least one of the cups. 

Himself - I'm guessing he's made it a personal goal to go get hardware next season with the likely desires being the league title or Big Ears.

Sorry bud this did give me a giggle, wasn't too sure whether to crack a joke about getting rid of tools in Moses and Cissokho or post a few pics of power tools! 

I said in my opening post that I don't think our current squad can sustain a league campaign like we have had last season along with CL football and final appearances in both cups but I do expect the squad to be added to quite considerably this summer. With this in mind I do think there has to be some expectation on the manager and players in regards to winning something next season even if it means just missing out again.

On how the squad is to be added to depends what to expect from the manager. The degree of the side's strengthening will determine the level of our ambition. That's why i believe we have to wait and see.

Sorry bud this did give me a giggle, wasn't too sure whether to crack a joke about getting rid of tools in Moses and Cissokho or post a few pics of power tools! 

If we finished 5th but won the FA cup, would you take that over a good run in the CL and league?

Definitely not.... 4th spot is a must or the season is a failure (unless we win the CL). Its vital we get that champions league spot or this season will have been for nothing.

I will clarify that, if we dont get top 4 next season then we will have gone backwards, thats nowhere near good enough.

FSG come from a sports mentality where there is only one trophy on offer.
There are 30 major league baseball teams, only one can win the world series.
The others measure success in terms of how far they progress into the play offs and their financial success.
So they probably don't get the concept of success being measure in terms of winning something like the League Cup especially if it comes at the cost of a top 4 finish.

No.

I'm happy for him to implement his methods on the club from top to bottom. If that takes time, then so be it. Look at what Cruyff and Michels did with Barcelona, they left Ajax and implemented their style from the youth system to the first team. It's that overarching vision that Brendan has for the club - his legacy on the club should not just be trophies. It should be an attractive, fast paced and technical blueprint that other managers that follow Brendan will have to follow.

No.

I'm happy for him to implement his methods on the club from top to bottom. If that takes time, then so be it. Look at what Cruyff and Michels did with Barcelona, they left Ajax and implemented their style from the youth system to the first team. It's that overarching vision that Brendan has for the club - his legacy on the club should not just be trophies. It should be an attractive, fast paced and technical blueprint that other managers that follow Brendan will have to follow.

You'd be happy in 5/6 years time if all we had to show for Brendan's efforts is pretty football mate?

I'm not sure even Brendan would agree with that.

I'm going to make this short and simple..

He doesn't need a trophy next season to ensure that he is doing a good job. What he needs to do is show the progression of the team, of the club throughout the entire season. If Brendan can get us again pushing hard for the league and having a decent run in Europe, to me that's progression.

We have to be careful about the League Cup and FA Cup. Np doubt both are nice to win, but staying within the top four will be a monster of a task in itself. The day we finish outside that top four is the day we resume our downward spiral. Trophies are nice, but only the Prem and CL truly matter. The FA cup and carling cup have been devalued over the years. If we finished 5th but won the FA cup, would you take that over a good run in the CL and league?

In a word yes.

I'd have to strenuously disagree with that si. There's no way I would accept 5th place in the league next year with the FA Cup alongside it instead of a good run in the league and the CL. After so long without CL football I wouldn't dare let that slip so soon after we regained it. It's easy to find your way out of the CL but it's a whole lot harder trying to re establish yourself in the competition. We're back in it but we still have work to do in that we have to cement our place in it next year. In addition to that, the ultimate ideal of Liverpool is to compete against and beat the very best. We can only achieve that by continued participation in the CL. Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich - that will be our level and has to continue to be our level (and hopefully supersede it) if we are to build upon the magnificent progress made this season. We shouldn't underestimate the importance and value of the Champions League to a club like us. Just look at Arsenal. There was a very real possibility that they'd finish 5th but with the FA Cup in the locker. And yet that scenario, bearing in mind they'd gone 9 years without silverware, was not being entertained by many Arsenal fans.

It's not that the FA Cup isn't a valued competition, it's the notion that 5th place would completely negate any gain made by winning the cup. The league is always the litmus test as to how good a team is and to finish 5th just one year after finishing second, two points off the top, would be a horrible setback. It's about choosing the scenario which offers the best platform to succeed at the very highest level ie winning the CL and PL double. There's no doubt in my mind that a preference for a good run in the CL and PL would be of greater value to us as a club.

I love the FA cup, always have done and I think it's a cup we should and could really go for next year which is perfectly achievable in my opinion; along with the League Cup but I wouldn't mind us experimenting in the League Cup with youngsters and what not.

So far as the league goes, well I think our first priority will have to be maintaining a position in the top 4 realistically, although another serious title challenge would be a welcome bonus.

The CL, well, we could take that by storm similar to what we did in the league this year but I think most of the continents top sides are aware of us and given the fact we'll be in a tough group it would be nice at least to get out of that group and into the knock out stages - and see where we go from there.

I wouldn't say Brendan needs a trophy to stay in the job, the main point here is, that progression has got to keep moving forward and if it does on all fronts we'll naturally at some point be in with more chance to win trophies - be it next season or the season thereafter. But as a couple of others have alluded the LFC manager should be under a certain amount of pressure to bring a trophy back to Liverpool, of course it would be brilliant to win them all but realistically I'd like to see us win the FA cup, remain in 4th or above and have a good run in the CL. That said, it we fail to bring a trophy back but we've still shown progression I won't be calling for the manager's head or anything knee-jerkish like that.

In my view if we don't win any silverware this we at least need to come damn close.

In truth we have the best attacking side in the country and the squad was good enough to win the league this season (as were City's and Chelsea's).

That said, it we fail to bring a trophy back but we've still shown progression I won't be calling for the manager's head or anything knee-jerkish like that.

My point is that it is hard to picture a position where we can see clear progression yet don't end up with any silverware, agree?

Is next season seen as another building season to further build the squad, maintain and possibly better our league form, while forgetting about any trophies?

Or should there be some pressure on Brendan and the players to deliver a trophy while doing all of the above?

Interested to hear the thoughts of the forum on this one.

The way I'm reading it is that next season will see new demands; new demands on Brendan, new demands on the players and [dare I say it] new demands on the 'money men'. Those 'new demands'? Champions League football and the chance to show that what happened last season was no fluke.

Most observers agree that to meet those demands we should add quality, in numbers, to the squad we have therefore, by default, we are still building.

Personally I don't believe there should be any added pressure on Brendan [or any manager] to delver a trophy when they're still in a process of rebuilding. To be honest a trophy [any trophy] during a period of rebuilding would be a massive achievement and should be heralded as such when it happens. 

My point is that it is hard to picture a position where we can see clear progression yet don't end up with any silverware, agree?

I agree but maybe a Cup Final, good run in the CL and another 2nd place finish would be seen as progress.

I hate to go all "Arsenal" on this but next season 1st priority is CL again, followed by challenging again for the title and 3rd priority, a trophy

Personally I want us to win the whole lot, but to paraphrase some of the language used by BR towards end of season, I think we do need to at least 'match' some of the 'performance targets' from this year (so CL qual, 100 goals etc)

Brendan is entering completely new territory in terms of pressure and number of games. As negative as it may sound I would take a top 3 finish and no cups.

Brendan has proven that he learns quickly, we're also likely to get a shocking group of death. Granted nobody would want us and I'm sure Brendan will have us playing without fear for the first few games in the group, but should the results not go our way the "no fear" approach will be well and truly out of the window.

He's also going to have a few new signings to bed in so while it might disappoint many next season could easily be another transitional season. Of course at some point there has to be an expectation to win something and that pressure would be applied the season after, but we started a long way behind, let's not get ahead of ourselves with expectations.

Brendan is entering completely new territory in terms of pressure and number of games. As negative as it may sound I would take a top 3 finish and no cups.

I'm not saying  wouldn't take that Luke but I wouldn't see that as in any way progress from this season and like JD said if we finish second and win nothing next season it really would be hard pressed to call that a progressive season.

I'm not saying  wouldn't take that Luke but I wouldn't see that as in any way progress from this season and like JD said if we finish second and win nothing next season it really would be hard pressed to call that a progressive season.

Understand where you're coming from Si and I wouldn't try and sell it as progress either but I could fully understand it given all the changes and added pressures on the team.

My point is that it is hard to picture a position where we can see clear progression yet don't end up with any silverware, agree?

I think I do agree, yes. Last season, the form, and they way we played would lead you to believe that we were a step away from silverware.

But we should also remember that new variables come into play next season - like having/hopefully 'more' football to play etc

So, it wouldn't be the end of world if next season we didn't end up with silverware, if you get my drift?

but I wouldn't see that as in any way progress from this season and like JD said if we finish second and win nothing next season it really would be hard pressed to call that a progressive season.

Fair enough Si but there are many scenarios which would include finishing second, with no trophy and still show positive signs of progress in my opinion. Second with a good run in the Champions League and beaten finalists in a Cup, for example.

Fair enough Si but there are many scenarios which would include finishing second, with no trophy and still show positive signs of progress in my opinion. Second with a good run in the Champions League and beaten finalists in a Cup, for example.

That much is true Mouse.

Being more consistent and learning how to break down teams that park the bus could be seen as progression as well.

I'd love a wembley trip, and/or a good run in the CL and have us pushing for the league again, but sometimes teams take a step back to move two forwards, especially when a lot of new players come in, so I'm pretty much OK with whatever BR and the lads achieve next season as long as we don't move significantly backwards.

I've also been thinking that the world cup is going to be brilliant for our younger players as they will gain valuable experience which could help us a lot in the CL next season.

Assuming woy doesn't play Sterling in goal that is

1) We ARE a top club

I hear what you're saying JD and I agree to a certain extent. However, I'm being pragmatic. Whilst I want us winning trophies, I would prefer to be challenging for the title year in year out.

With all due respect to the FA cup, it doesn't indicate that winning it means you're a TOP team. Wigan and Portsmouth managed it. As for Arsenal, do I think they will push on and challenge for the title next season? No, I don't think so. It's great for building winning mentality and is important, but not as important for a club's place in the elite of football as regularly challenging for the title.

I obviously don't want to be like Arsenal, content with CL place each year. However, we do need to be there. We have been a top team this season, and we were a top team under Rafa...in between, we were not. (top team in the wider context in terms of history and class etc, but that's a different matter). So it's really important we focus on going for winning the league again.

Do I prefer finishing a close second with no FA cup or finish 4th and win the FA cup? I'd prefer a second place finish to be honest. It's sad that FA cup has lost it's allure due to the mega money of CL, but that's reality.

2) Footballers go to clubs that are fighting to win things.  Running round pitches with trophies, open top bus parades, silly hats, their kids holding trophies - that's what they love.  That FA Cup win will have given Arsenal's players a real impetus for next season and a hunger for more - they will feel a real sense of achievement.

I (respectfully of course) disagree. Footballers these days go to clubs to play Champions League and challenge for league titles. World class players will not flock to Arsenal because they've won the FA cup. If a top player had a choice between going to Arsenal or us next season, I reckon they'll choose us because we're closer to winning the league than they are - but that's my personal view.