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      Emre Can (Liverpool > Juventus)

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      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Emre Can Player Thread
      Reply #713: Jun 26, 2015 10:37:44 pm
      What I am saying is that his fitness has yet to catch up with his body.

      He played every minute of about 22 consecutive games last season, there is nothing wrong with his fitness.
      Benito
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      Re: Emre Can Player Thread
      Reply #714: Jun 27, 2015 05:01:47 am
      Has to be this next season - stop playing people out of position.

                             Migs
      Clyne       Skrtel     Sakho      Digne
                     Can         Henderson
        Milner          Firmino       Coutinho
                          Bacca

      Can is only going to get better. He's already a Rolls Royce on the ball, just need to lay it off quicker and develop his tactical awareness.
      I agree with the fitness comments, hes a big lad and should be bossing people all game, which i didn't see him do towards the end of games last year, but that was partly due to being played out of position. Stick him next to Henderson to mop up and release the front men and we couldn't ask for better development - Got to give it to Milner and Hendo, they have the right attitude and I hope it rubs off on the rest of the squad.
      fhands123
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      Re: Emre Can Player Thread
      Reply #715: Jun 27, 2015 05:25:11 am
      Has to be this next season - stop playing people out of position.

                             Migs
      Clyne       Skrtel     Sakho      Digne
                     Can         Henderson
        Milner          Firmino       Coutinho
                          Bacca

      I'd argue that this has both Coutinho and Milner out of position.

      Phil's far more effective centrally and wasted out wide.

      I think Milners energy and passing will be key centrally as well.

      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Emre Can Player Thread
      Reply #716: Jun 27, 2015 05:48:04 pm
      Carried on over from here: http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php?topic=47445.msg1796628#msg1796628

      Midfield antics? You claim he isn't good defensively in the DM position and that is what I am calling you out on, not midfield antics. Don't change your story midway through the debate.

      Please take the time to re-read what I typed. I am not changing my story midway through a debate :S

      Allen barely f**king played, not one game did I see him as MOTM on any occasion. He isn't very strong in the tackle and to me is not very impressive. It doesn't matter who played in the midfield more last season. Can was bought by us as a DM. Rodgers needed a CB and Can stepped in. Just goes to show how the kids attitude is and how versatile he is.

      Allen was inconsistent, but he played in midfield and at times played very well. I'm 100% sure he played more than Can in midfield last season. And seeing Allen play more in midfield for the last 2 seasons, I am basing my opinion on the very fact that Allen is better defensively, as well as not seeing stand out defensive qualities when Can plays in the middle.

      As for the Mertesacker, Terry, etc. First of all Mertesacker is slow as f**k and he could not play DM solely because he doesn't have any pace, not because he lacks defense. Terry is/was a stud at CB why on earth would you want to move him to DM. Never saw Chelsea even remotely do that.

      It's not just pace, there are other factors to the DM that differs from CB/RCB. You just need to look at Lucas or even Carrick. Can does not have that awareness, that positional sense and passing to be even considered a starter in that DM role for us.

      Your statement is still so flawed by saying Can isn't good enough as a DM because he isn't good defensively even though he excelled at the CB position this past season.

      In what way is it flawed? I don't see him as a defensive midfielder because when he plays in the middle, he is not as good defensively as when he plays  CB/RCB, what's so difficult to understand? It requires a different skill set and something Can has not picked up.

      Has the U21 games not shown how poor Can has been defensively? He struggled so much that Kimmich had to be bought in which gave more freedom for Can to attack. It's actually showcasing that perhaps.. perhaps CM could be his natural position rather than DM.
      Swab
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      Re: Emre Can Player Thread
      Reply #717: Jun 27, 2015 05:50:49 pm
      Carried on over from here: http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php?topic=47445.msg1796628#msg1796628

      Please take the time to re-read what I typed. I am not changing my story midway through a debate :S

      Allen was inconsistent, but he played in midfield and at times played very well. I'm 100% sure he played more than Can in midfield last season. And seeing Allen play more in midfield for the last 2 seasons, I am basing my opinion on the very fact that Allen is better defensively, as well as not seeing stand out defensive qualities when Can plays in the middle.

      It's not just pace, there are other factors to the DM that differs from CB/RCB. You just need to look at Lucas or even Carrick. Can does not have that awareness, that positional sense and passing to be even considered a starter in that DM role for us.

      In what way is it flawed? I don't see him as a defensive midfielder because when he plays in the middle, he is not as good defensively as when he plays  CB/RCB, what's so difficult to understand? It requires a different skill set and something Can has not picked up.

      Has the U21 games not shown how poor Can has been defensively? He struggled so much that Kimmich had to be bought in which gave more freedom for Can to attack. It's actually showcasing that perhaps.. perhaps CM could be his natural position rather than DM.

      The part I've bolded is what leads to me to agree with PurpleMonkey.

      GeorgeRed
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      Re: Emre Can Player Thread
      Reply #718: Jun 27, 2015 06:37:32 pm
      I hope you people didn't watched Germany's game against Portugal ... I've changed my opinion and i think he isn't ready to be a first team player for us.
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      Re: Emre Can Player Thread
      Reply #719: Jun 27, 2015 06:41:42 pm
      I hope you people didn't watched Germany's game against Portugal ... I've changed my opinion and i think he isn't ready to be a first team player for us.

      Based on one game. Good decision mate. 
      GeorgeRed
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      Re: Emre Can Player Thread
      Reply #720: Jun 27, 2015 06:52:47 pm
      Based on one game. Good decision mate.

      Not based on one game, i thought this for some time, but his performance tonight adds to these fears ... he's not ready yet to be playing at top level. And it shows more when he's facing quick players with flair.

      It reminded me of what Blind did to him in the derby against the scum.
      Poko
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      Re: Emre Can Player Thread
      Reply #721: Jun 27, 2015 07:08:21 pm
      Carried on over from here: http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php?topic=47445.msg1796628#msg1796628

      Please take the time to re-read what I typed. I am not changing my story midway through a debate :S

      Allen was inconsistent, but he played in midfield and at times played very well. I'm 100% sure he played more than Can in midfield last season. And seeing Allen play more in midfield for the last 2 seasons, I am basing my opinion on the very fact that Allen is better defensively, as well as not seeing stand out defensive qualities when Can plays in the middle.

      It's not just pace, there are other factors to the DM that differs from CB/RCB. You just need to look at Lucas or even Carrick. Can does not have that awareness, that positional sense and passing to be even considered a starter in that DM role for us.

      In what way is it flawed? I don't see him as a defensive midfielder because when he plays in the middle, he is not as good defensively as when he plays  CB/RCB, what's so difficult to understand? It requires a different skill set and something Can has not picked up.

      Has the U21 games not shown how poor Can has been defensively? He struggled so much that Kimmich had to be bought in which gave more freedom for Can to attack. It's actually showcasing that perhaps.. perhaps CM could be his natural position rather than DM.

      To anyone just joining the debate the only fact I am arguing here is the fact that you say Can isn't good enough to play DM because he isn't good enough defensively. I am not talking about positon, passing or any of the other sh*t you keep mentioning. The only part I called you out on is his defensive ability. And you keep saying he wouldn't be good as a DM for other reasons. I am not arguing this, only the part you say he isn't good enough defensively as a DM.

      Again did I debate that Allen played more in the midfield? No I did not. But to say Allen is better as DM is utter sh*t since Allen did not stand out at all this season. If he did he would have played more...guaranteed. Besides, we have not seen Can in a DM role yet at LFC so we cannot compare the two really.

      Again you bring up the point of awareness and passing. For the last time the only thing I am debating is that he is not good enough defensively to be a DM which is what your first point ever was. I do not care about what you think of his other abilities since I have yet to see him in a DM role for us.

      Again, you basing your decisions off of U21 games is so worthless. Different team, different tactics most likely. I care about what he does for us and not his national side. There are plenty of players who play well for their club and don't perform up to that level in the national side.

      I have not yet seen him in a DM role with LFC with other midfielders that we have. It would be stupid to say he can't play DM here because he is sh*t at it in his national side.

      All CB's will have the defensive side of a DM position down regardless of who it is. Where they may not succeed at the DM position is due to pace, intelligence, passing, awareness among other things. I am simply saying that if Can is not a good DM it is not because of his defensive abilities, it will be for other reasons. That is my argument.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Emre Can Player Thread
      Reply #722: Jun 27, 2015 08:01:26 pm
      To anyone just joining the debate the only fact I am arguing here is the fact that you say Can isn't good enough to play DM because he isn't good enough defensively. I am not talking about positon, passing or any of the other sh*t you keep mentioning. The only part I called you out on is his defensive ability. And you keep saying he wouldn't be good as a DM for other reasons. I am not arguing this, only the part you say he isn't good enough defensively as a DM.

      For the last time the only thing I am debating is that he is not good enough defensively to be a DM which is what your first point ever was. I do not care about what you think of his other abilities since I have yet to see him in a DM role for us.

      I am simply saying that if Can is not a good DM it is not because of his defensive abilities, it will be for other reasons. That is my argument.

      Just to be more specific, when I use the term "defensively", I mean as a whole, whether it's tracking back, keeping possession, harrying etc.
      So, in saying that, the way I see it, CB and DM's require different skills sets, so watching Can, I do not see the defensive requirements from him to become our DM and still believe he's weaker than the rest of our midfielders. He may be good defensively as a CB/RCB, but not as a DM as I stated.

      I think he's our weakest defensive midfielder we have. Allen, Lucas, Milner and Hendo are all better than him when it comes to defensive play unfortunately :(

      It's clear I'm talking about the midfield and not CB positions too, so again, when I call out Can defensively, I am stating the midfield area.

      Again, you basing your decisions off of U21 games is so worthless. Different team, different tactics most likely. I care about what he does for us and not his national side. There are plenty of players who play well for their club and don't perform up to that level in the national side.

      I don't believe it's worthless to judge a player playing for another team. You get some incline of his play style, his main traits or even weaknesses. And I am basing my decision not only through his U21 games, but his games under us and the type of players we have if Can were to play DM for us.
      Poko
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      Re: Emre Can Player Thread
      Reply #723: Jun 27, 2015 10:45:05 pm
      Just to be more specific, when I use the term "defensively", I mean as a whole, whether it's tracking back, keeping possession, harrying etc.
      So, in saying that, the way I see it, CB and DM's require different skills sets, so watching Can, I do not see the defensive requirements from him to become our DM and still believe he's weaker than the rest of our midfielders. He may be good defensively as a CB/RCB, but not as a DM as I stated.

      It's clear I'm talking about the midfield and not CB positions too, so again, when I call out Can defensively, I am stating the midfield area.

      I don't believe it's worthless to judge a player playing for another team. You get some incline of his play style, his main traits or even weaknesses. And I am basing my decision not only through his U21 games, but his games under us and the type of players we have if Can were to play DM for us.

      Most of the stuff you have stated have not been defensive based. Here is a quote.

      It's not just pace, there are other factors to the DM that differs from CB/RCB. You just need to look at Lucas or even Carrick. Can does not have that awareness, that positional sense and passing to be even considered a starter in that DM role for us.

      That quote literally has nothing to do with what I am talking about. I never said all CB's will make good DM's. I said if CB's don't make good DM's it is not because of their defensive capabilities but for differing reasons. Passing isn't defense, just controlling possession. When I talk about defense I mean marking, tackling, ball interception etc. Yes position and awareness come into it, but when it comes down to the nitty gritty real defense type of stuff Can excels. I have never seen a defensive mid play good defense by alone having good positioning and awareness. He has to have that edge to tackle and mark and win the ball back.

      It just seems odd to me that you think you can play solid as a CB but fail as a DM because your not good enough defensively. I have said this at least 15 times now but I am just so deeply confused about your argument. I am not sitting here and saying that Can is an amazing DM and will be our DM for years to come for the simple reason that I have not seen him play DM for us. If he does fail at DM I would find it highly hard to believe that it will be because he sucks defensively. It might be passing or something else, but not because he can't play defense.

      Again, you can't judge solely how he will do as a DM on U21 sides and when he played for us as a CB. Thats like saying since Sterling was sh*t as a striker he will be just as sh*t as a winger or something along the lines of that.

      The only way you can judge a player on how well he will play in a certain position at LFC is to actually watch him in action in that exact position with LFC. Why do you think there are flops in the game of football? Players who play great at one club, come to another and play like sh*t for one reason or another. The only way you know if he isn't a flop is when he starts playing. Same goes for playing players in different positions.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Emre Can Player Thread
      Reply #724: Jun 28, 2015 01:00:36 am
      Most of the stuff you have stated have not been defensive based. Here is a quote.

      Of course they are defensive based, but also, can be considered attacking too, depends on the position you are talking about.

      Passing isn't defense, just controlling possession.

      It's pretty subjective. Passing is indeed controlling possession, but also, it can be a form of defensive play as you are in control and stopping the opposition.

      I have never seen a defensive mid play good defense by alone having good positioning and awareness. He has to have that edge to tackle and mark and win the ball back.

      I have, and they are mostly deep lying playmakers. Would you consider Kroos or Schweinsteiger strong tacklers and markers? I don't, yet they are strong DM's with fantastic awareness, positional play and passers, I'm sure there are others?

      It just seems odd to me that you think you can play solid as a CB but fail as a DM because your not good enough defensively. I have said this at least 15 times now but I am just so deeply confused about your argument

      It seems odd to me that you still don't understand what I am saying. Again, let me explain, the way I see it, there are 2 types of defensive skill sets for a CB and DM, and a CB with a CB defensive skill set doesn't always necessary succeed as a DM because he may not have the DM defensive skill set. Vice versa.

      I am not sitting here and saying that Can is an amazing DM and will be our DM for years to come for the simple reason that I have not seen him play DM for us. If he does fail at DM I would find it highly hard to believe that it will be because he sucks defensively. It might be passing or something else, but not because he can't play defense.

      As I am not sitting here and saying Can will never be a DM, but from what I have seen, he doesn't have the defensive skill set in midfield to become a DM. Perhaps later he will if nurtured into one and played in DM often. Players can convert (Alba, Puyol, Lucas etc) and perhaps Can will some day, but as of now, I don't see him ahead of our other midfielders in terms of defensive play.

      Again, you can't judge solely how he will do as a DM on U21 sides and when he played for us as a CB. Thats like saying since Sterling was sh*t as a striker he will be just as sh*t as a winger or something along the lines of that.

      I am judging him by watching him and seeing his attributes like you, and I believe they don't suit the DM role, where as you are judging him and believing he can be our DM. Aren't you also on the same boat as me, have we not seen the same amount of Can this season? You are assuming he's better than players who has played the DM role when you haven't seen him play there, so therefore, you are judging him?

      The only way you can judge a player on how well he will play in a certain position at LFC is to actually watch him in action in that exact position with LFC.

      Yet you are judging Milner and assuming he would be better than Allen? (I do agree that Milner is better than Allen btw :p)

      http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php/topic,47779.30.html

      Why do you think there are flops in the game of football? Players who play great at one club, come to another and play like sh*t for one reason or another.Players who play great at one club, come to another and play like sh*t for one reason or another. The only way you know if he isn't a flop is when he starts playing. Same goes for playing players in different positions

      And there are some who succeed, what's your point?
      Magillionare
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      Re: Emre Can Player Thread
      Reply #725: Jun 28, 2015 03:50:21 am
      Not based on one game, i thought this for some time, but his performance tonight adds to these fears ... he's not ready yet to be playing at top level. And it shows more when he's facing quick players with flair.

      It reminded me of what Blind did to him in the derby against the scum.

      Of course he's going to look poor in some games. In case you don't remember, Gerrard was hardly praised through and through when he started off in the team. A raw talent that seemed reckless and a little uncertain about where he was meant to play (remember at one stage he played right back).

      It's fine to be short sighted, I can't blame you, but the only way Can will be ready to step up is if he plays week in and week out. I'm willing to see him do that.
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      Re: Emre Can Player Thread
      Reply #726: Jun 28, 2015 03:48:59 pm
      Of course they are defensive based, but also, can be considered attacking too, depends on the position you are talking about.

      It's pretty subjective. Passing is indeed controlling possession, but also, it can be a form of defensive play as you are in control and stopping the opposition.

      I have, and they are mostly deep lying playmakers. Would you consider Kroos or Schweinsteiger strong tacklers and markers? I don't, yet they are strong DM's with fantastic awareness, positional play and passers, I'm sure there are others?

      It seems odd to me that you still don't understand what I am saying. Again, let me explain, the way I see it, there are 2 types of defensive skill sets for a CB and DM, and a CB with a CB defensive skill set doesn't always necessary succeed as a DM because he may not have the DM defensive skill set. Vice versa.

      As I am not sitting here and saying Can will never be a DM, but from what I have seen, he doesn't have the defensive skill set in midfield to become a DM. Perhaps later he will if nurtured into one and played in DM often. Players can convert (Alba, Puyol, Lucas etc) and perhaps Can will some day, but as of now, I don't see him ahead of our other midfielders in terms of defensive play.

      I am judging him by watching him and seeing his attributes like you, and I believe they don't suit the DM role, where as you are judging him and believing he can be our DM. Aren't you also on the same boat as me, have we not seen the same amount of Can this season? You are assuming he's better than players who has played the DM role when you haven't seen him play there, so therefore, you are judging him?

      Yet you are judging Milner and assuming he would be better than Allen? (I do agree that Milner is better than Allen btw :p)

      http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php/topic,47779.30.html

      And there are some who succeed, what's your point?


      I told you I am not talking about Can's attacking attributes. The only thing I am arguing is defense. Passing is not defense. Passing is an attribute to not have to play defense, but it isn't defense.

      Again, I don't give a F**k about other DM's. Re-read what I said. I said "I have never seen a defensive mid play good defense by alone having good positioning and awareness. He has to have that edge to tackle and mark and win the ball back." I am not talking about a guy playing good at the position. I am saying I have never seen someone playing good defense by only having those attributes.

      I would agree when you say the tactical side of defense is a little bit different as a CB and DM, however a CB is much more demanding defensively than a DM. Therefore, to say a DM is no good because he can't defend when he excelled as a CB is just an oxymoron and completely untrue regardless of who the person is.

      Again I do not believe you read my post. I specifically said in there I have no idea what kind of player Can will be in the DM position because I have not yet seen him play there. I never judged him and said he was our best DM. The only argument I made is that if Can does not do well as a DM it will not be because of his defense.

      I say Milner is better than Allen because I saw Milner play and I have seen Allen play in the DM and CM positions many times over the past few seasons. Based on that judgment alone I would say Milner is better. However as I have stated before it is very well possible Milner doesn't turn out the way he is supposed and becomes the next Joe Cole. I say that Milner will be good, but I do not actually know how he will turn out, nobody does. You haven't seen Can really play DM. Yes for the U21's maybe but you have to understand those kids are young and the people around definitely have an affect to how you play. You have never seen him play for a senior side as a DM.

      I wasn't making the distinction for people who do succeed with their transfers. My main point is that you are judging Can's abilities to play DM from his U21 team as well playing CB for LFC. The only way to know if he will be a good DM for us is when he actually starts playing DM for us. You can't sit here and say he isn't good enough for the DM role when he hasn't even played in that role for this club.

      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Emre Can Player Thread
      Reply #727: Jun 28, 2015 05:31:09 pm
      The only thing I am arguing is defense. Passing is not defense. Passing is an attribute to not have to play defense, but it isn't defense.

      Passing is an attribute, and having a composed passer in our DM contributes to defensive play, this is what I mean, so a strong passer = possession play = form of defensive.

      Again I do not believe you read my post. I specifically said in there I have no idea what kind of player Can will be in the DM position because I have not yet seen him play there. I never judged him and said he was our best DM.

      You placed him ahead of Lucas and Allen in the best starting line up thread which indicates you are judging him on his abilities and believing he is the better player.

      however a CB is much more demanding defensively than a DM. Therefore, to say a DM is no good because he can't defend when he excelled as a CB is just an oxymoron and completely untrue regardless of who the person is.

      Again, this is about opinions and I believe DM is more demanding than CB.
      And who is saying a CB who can defend can't defend as a DM? You stick a CB as a striker, and he can still defend. What I am saying is, you stick someone like Terry or Metesacker in DM and they would be poor defensively (as a whole) in midfield and would probably weaken the team because it requires different defensive skill sets.

      Again, I don't give a f**k about other DM's. Re-read what I said. I said "I have never seen a defensive mid play good defense by alone having good positioning and awareness. He has to have that edge to tackle and mark and win the ball back." I am not talking about a guy playing good at the position. I am saying I have never seen someone playing good defense by only having those attributes.

      All players can tackle, mark, nick the ball etc, some do it better than others. Look at Carrick a player who you don't associate with being a fantastic tackler like, Masch, Nainggolan, Medal etc, yet Carrick's anticipation, positioning, awareness etc allows him to excel in a CB and DM role.

      My main point is that you are judging Can's abilities to play DM from his U21 team as well playing CB for LFC. The only way to know if he will be a good DM for us is when he actually starts playing DM for us.

      You are right, the only true way to know is if the player plays in that particular position, but aren't you also judging Can's abilities by placing him ahead of Lucas and Allen?

      You can't sit here and say he isn't good enough for the DM role when he hasn't even played in that role for this club.

      Mignolet   

       Ibe/Wisdom     Skrtel       Sakho           Moreno

                                        Can

                    Milner                       Henderson

                                  Coutinho

                         Sturridge           Sterling

      Yet you can sit there and say he's good enough for the DM role when you haven't seen him play that role for us?

      Look, I'll say it again, I do not think Can is good enough to play DM for us and should not be ahead of Allen and Lucas because their attributes are more in sync with our playing style as well as being better defensively in midfield.
      In saying that, if played in midfield, he looks more of a CM(not box-box) where he'll have more freedom to burst forward, but also has the security of a DM to cover him. And as mentioned, in the form of Yaya.
      Poko
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      Re: Emre Can Player Thread
      Reply #728: Jun 28, 2015 06:34:17 pm
      Passing is an attribute, and having a composed passer in our DM contributes to defensive play, this is what I mean, so a strong passer = possession play = form of defensive.

      You placed him ahead of Lucas and Allen in the best starting line up thread which indicates you are judging him on his abilities and believing he is the better player.

      Again, this is about opinions and I believe DM is more demanding than CB.
      And who is saying a CB who can defend can't defend as a DM? You stick a CB as a striker, and he can still defend. What I am saying is, you stick someone like Terry or Metesacker in DM and they would be poor defensively (as a whole) in midfield and would probably weaken the team because it requires different defensive skill sets.

      All players can tackle, mark, nick the ball etc, some do it better than others. Look at Carrick a player who you don't associate with being a fantastic tackler like, Masch, Nainggolan, Medal etc, yet Carrick's anticipation, positioning, awareness etc allows him to excel in a CB and DM role.

      You are right, the only true way to know is if the player plays in that particular position, but aren't you also judging Can's abilities by placing him ahead of Lucas and Allen?

      Yet you can sit there and say he's good enough for the DM role when you haven't seen him play that role for us?

      Look, I'll say it again, I do not think Can is good enough to play DM for us and should not be ahead of Allen and Lucas because their attributes are more in sync with our playing style as well as being better defensively in midfield.
      In saying that, if played in midfield, he looks more of a CM(not box-box) where he'll have more freedom to burst forward, but also has the security of a DM to cover him. And as mentioned, in the form of Yaya.


      Its getting to the point where we are both just repeating ourselves, so this will probably be my last post on the topic. Just curious but have you ever played football competitively? Not slagging you off or anything, just more of my own curiosity.

      Again I find it hard to believe that a person who plays defense doesn't have as demanding of a job defensively as a defensive midfielder. You literally just lost me on that and I could sit here and type a book on why you are wrong but I will just bite my tongue on this one.

      Again why do you keep bringing up other defensive mids? I am not talking about defense as a whole and what not. I am talking about a single player in the defense, not as a whole. I am more so talking about positions really. I never said a Terry or Mertesacker in a DM role would make their team better defensively. They are good defenders but they lack other attributes in the DM role to be fully rounded DM's. Passing, vision,etc. You can have individually talented defensive players in a system and have the defense fail as a whole. That has happened to most notably us.

      What you said is false, not all players can tackle, mark, nick the ball, etc. That comment made it seem like every player can do all of those attributes the same. Yes they can try to do all of the above, but whether or not they succeed at it is another thing.

      Again, please stop bringing up Carrick, Milner and a whole load of other players in this, they have literally nothing to do with what I am talking about.

      I put Can in a DM role over Lucas and Allen because 1) Allen doesn't impress me and I do not believe he is good enough. 2) Lucas hasn't proved to me he deserves a starting role. I am not judging Can on anything. Did I say anywhere in that post that I believe that would be our starting 11 for the entire season? No I did not.

      While your judging Can on a position he never played saying he isn't good enough, I placed Can in my starting lineup for 2 different reasons. 1) Allen and Lucas to me are not starters. 2) the kid deserves a chance at his natural position. I am not judging him off of anything I simply think he deserves the chance.
      PurpleMonkey
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      Re: Emre Can Player Thread
      Reply #729: Jun 28, 2015 07:25:31 pm
      Just curious but have you ever played football competitively? Not slagging you off or anything, just more of my own curiosity.

      It doesn't matter if I've played the sport or not. My childhood friend who has played in the Prem as well as for my country used to have endless chats about football with me and my ex uni friends, ex uni friends who enjoys watching but never played in competitive matches. Chats that we agreed and disagreed on. You can still gain knowledge by watching, not everything has to be hands on.

      What you said is false, not all players can tackle, mark, nick the ball, etc

      This is not false, all footballers can pass, tackle, mark, shoot etc, just some are not good as others or not particularly a requirement much needed for their position.

      I put Can in a DM role over Lucas and Allen because 1) Allen doesn't impress me and I do not believe he is good enough. 2) Lucas hasn't proved to me he deserves a starting role. I am not judging Can on anything. Did I say anywhere in that post that I believe that would be our starting 11 for the entire season? No I did not.

      While your judging Can on a position he never played saying he isn't good enough, I placed Can in my starting lineup for 2 different reasons. 1) Allen and Lucas to me are not starters. 2) the kid deserves a chance at his natural position. I am not judging him off of anything I simply think he deserves the chance.

      But there must be a reason why you think Can deserves to be in the DM ahead of Lucas or Allen. Why not Skrtel, Sakho, Moreno, Borini etc?

      Its getting to the point where we are both just repeating ourselves, so this will probably be my last post on the topic.

      I agree, though I do not mind the debates and as I mentioned before, I learnt a lot from other posters in the past, however; this is an endless debate and is becoming tiresome. We're just going round in circles which is not healthy for the forums :)
      Poko
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      Re: Emre Can Player Thread
      Reply #730: Jun 28, 2015 10:08:52 pm
      It doesn't matter if I've played the sport or not. My childhood friend who has played in the Prem as well as for my country used to have endless chats about football with me and my ex uni friends, ex uni friends who enjoys watching but never played in competitive matches. Chats that we agreed and disagreed on. You can still gain knowledge by watching, not everything has to be hands on.

      This is not false, all footballers can pass, tackle, mark, shoot etc, just some are not good as others or not particularly a requirement much needed for their position.

      But there must be a reason why you think Can deserves to be in the DM ahead of Lucas or Allen. Why not Skrtel, Sakho, Moreno, Borini etc?

      I agree, though I do not mind the debates and as I mentioned before, I learnt a lot from other posters in the past, however; this is an endless debate and is becoming tiresome. We're just going round in circles which is not healthy for the forums :)

      While you can learn a lot by watching and I completely understand that, there is nothing else like hands-on learning. Again I know their are coaches and stuff who never really played and learned by watching etc. However, in this certain scenario where we are arguing which requires more defending, DM or CB, playing certainly does help.

      ;D the comparison that all footballers can mark, tackle etc I would agree. But I can do all of the above and yet I am no where near the level of a professional. I guess I would compare it to a rating system like it is in Fifa.

      Just gotta be realistic, obviously Skrtel, Sakho, Moreno, Borini are clearly not going to play DM. As I said though I don't believe Allen or Lucas is good enough to start for LFC and I choose Can because he deserves the chance. Not judgment based, simply the kid deserves it.

      Yeah this debate is just worthless. You have your point and I have mine.
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      Re: Emre Can Player Thread
      Reply #731: Jun 29, 2015 12:12:50 am
      I don't believe Allen or Lucas is good enough to start for LFC

      Lucas is always one of, if not our most consistent performers, especially last season!
      Poko
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      Re: Emre Can Player Thread
      Reply #732: Jun 29, 2015 03:27:07 am
      Lucas is always one of, if not our most consistent performers, especially last season!

      Yet nobody on this forum has put him in a starting spot for next season in any of the posts I have seen!!
      ajayi82
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      Re: Emre Can Player Thread
      Reply #733: Jun 29, 2015 01:33:42 pm
      stars central next season has to cant waste him now in defence and now Clyne is sorted i dont think we will do. league cup and FA cup early stages we can rest him and use Allen,lucas but league games start him.
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      Re: Emre Can Player Thread
      Reply #734: Jun 29, 2015 10:56:37 pm
      Yet nobody on this forum has put him in a starting spot for next season in any of the posts I have seen!!

      Still doesn't mean he isn't good enough. It's good to have a reliable player who we can bring on to sure things up and help us grind out a result if needed.
      Poko
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      Re: Emre Can Player Thread
      Reply #735: Jun 29, 2015 10:59:33 pm
      Still doesn't mean he isn't good enough. It's good to have a reliable player who we can bring on to sure things up and help us grind out a result if needed.

      Never said he wasn't good enough, I just think that after his injuries he has not been the same and not worthy of a starting spot. I am not saying he will never be good enough, just saying right now he isn't good enough to start. As a squad player I agree, I like having him coming in when need be.

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