World class players or "the system"?

Not sure if theres a right or wrong answer to this but I do want to see opinions on it.

I don't partake much at all in the transfer talk but I do have a look at time to time at whats in the rumour mill both here and in various other websites. Some brilliant names being linked and some good names and good prospects.

Take for example Fabregas. Stories of us looking at him. Are they true? Who knows but what interests me and is the reason Im creating the topic, is the split it causes amongst supporters. Whats the split?

Outlook 1) He's a world class player snap him up, we'd be mad not to

Outlook 2) He doesn't fit the system that the team play and therefore were better not going for him and getting in Lallana for example.

There's also the thought that we don't traditionally buy in ready made world class players rather that they become world class when playing here.

So I'm interested in your opinions on this. From your viewpoint should we sign world class players who don't or might not fit our system or should we sign players only who are ready made to fit in to our style?

And I've only used Fabregas and Lallana as examples please don't limit the thread to those 2 and arguments over the 2 of them

That's a decent post.

I feel underwhelmed somewhat by the players we are linked with. It is no myth that we spend big in the transfer market. I also think we spend rather badly in the transfer market. When you look at our best XI from last season, you'd have to say the only new additions to the squad are Mignolet, Coutinho and Sturridge. I feel these are terrific players and have helped us accumulate more points, especially Sturridge. I have no doubt that Brendan is a fantastic coach - just look at how Luis, Daniel and Hendo have flourished under him. There is also the rise of Raheem Sterling, who fits into this system perfectly.

What I find most frustrating is Brendan's penchant for an unproven youngster. I feel we have overspent on the likes of Luis Alberto, Fabio Borini and Tiago Ilori. I also feel that if these players do remain with the club, they will not improve us. I've watched all of them. I personally cannot see it, but maybe Brendan can.

I know people have slated Willian, but he would've hit the ground running at Liverpool. He would have fitted our system perfectly. At Chelsea he is being utilised as a hardworking attacker, but here he would be an outlet and a creator of play. We were linked with two other outstanding players in Micky and Costa. We were in no position to secure them but showed great ambition to. Now we are in that position, so I find the links to such players as Emre Can, Steven Caulker, Ryan Bertrand and even Adam Lallana underwhelming. I understand maybe some players will not fit our system due to not being a hard enough worker, but it's that quality that we need.

I will refuse to question Brendan's ability as a coach, but as a scout in the transfer market I will. But, if Brendan is that good a manager and a footballer is that good a footballer, then surely the ability to adapt and fit our system is more than possible. However you look at it, Fabregas would improve us as a team. He'd have a field day threading balls through to our attackers. That's what quality will offer you.

Good question, I think the thing about this topic is that everyone gets excited about the prospect of bringing in a ready made, world class talent with the thought that they'll immediately make the entire team better. And in some cases that's probably true. But at the end of the day, there are factors that have to be managed by the club concerning a player fitting in with the rest of the squad. There are budgets to adhere to, egos to stroke and worry about with other players, I suppose tactics comes into play.

It seems that Brendan is resigned to the fact that he won't just be able to go out and buy a top class player for every position, he's just not going to have that kind of depth....so he appears to be looking at hard working players that are flexible and can be plugged in a multitude of places. That probably enables him to use the budget he has (who knows what it is) and get better quality for more positions.

I think I'm like anyone else...if you gave me a choice between buying a shiny new Ferrari vs. a Corvette that's got a few years and miles on it and maybe won't get the looks that the Ferrari gets I'd pick the Ferrari.....but with Ferrari ownership comes a lot of other "headaches" that you might not have with the Chevy and if at the end of the day...the Corvette gets the job done almost as good...was it really necessary to buy the Ferrari in the first place?

That's a decent post.

I feel underwhelmed somewhat by the players we are linked with. It is no myth that we spend big in the transfer market. I also think we spend rather badly in the transfer market. When you look at our best XI from last season, you'd have to say the only new additions to the squad are Mignolet, Coutinho and Sturridge. I feel these are terrific players and have helped us accumulate more points, especially Sturridge. I have no doubt that Brendan is a fantastic coach - just look at how Luis, Daniel and Hendo have flourished under him. There is also the rise of Raheem Sterling, who fits into this system perfectly.

What I find most frustrating is Brendan's penchant for an unproven youngster. I feel we have overspent on the likes of Luis Alberto, Fabio Borini and Tiago Ilori. I also feel that if these players do remain with the club, they will not improve us. I've watched all of them. I personally cannot see it, but maybe Brendan can.

I know people have slated Willian, but he would've hit the ground running at Liverpool. He would have fitted our system perfectly. At Chelsea he is being utilised as a hardworking attacker, but here he would be an outlet and a creator of play. We were linked with two other outstanding players in Micky and Costa. We were in no position to secure them but showed great ambition to. Now we are in that position, so I find the links to such players as Emre Can, Steven Caulker, Ryan Bertrand and even Adam Lallana underwhelming. I understand maybe some players will not fit our system due to not being a hard enough worker, but it's that quality that we need.

I will refuse to question Brendan's ability as a coach, but as a scout in the transfer market I will. But, if Brendan is that good a manager and a footballer is that good a footballer, then surely the ability to adapt and fit our system is more than possible. However you look at it, Fabregas would improve us as a team. He'd have a field day threading balls through to our attackers. That's what quality will offer you.

How in the world can you say that Ilori and Alberto won't improve the team? They've hardly (in Ilori's case never) played with the starters. Some of your assertions are mind blowing...they really are. So if you never want to buy players for the future, how do you ever make sure that you have kids coming through in numbers enough to feed the first team, because the academy alone isn't likely to supply enough players to replenish players that move on.

On one hand you don't think Brendan gets it right on transfers...then you turn around and praise Sturridge, Coutinho and Willian (Brendan wanted him and it wasn't his fault he didn't get him). Amazing logic being thrown around here.

Fabregas would improve us as a team. He'd have a field day threading balls through to our attackers. That's what quality will offer you.

Yes and the other team would have a field day with the fact that he doesn't do a tenth of the tracking back and chasing that Lallana does. One thing you can see in most of Brendan's signings, starters and targets is a willingness to work hard and do the things that not everyone is willing to do.

And I've only used Fabregas and Lallana as examples please don't limit the thread to those 2 and arguments over the 2 of them

Well that lasted for 3 posts.......

How in the world can you say that Ilori and Alberto won't improve the team? They've hardly (in Ilori's case never) played with the starters. Some of your assertions are mind blowing...they really are. So if you never want to buy players for the future, how do you ever make sure that you have kids coming through in numbers enough to feed the first team, because the academy alone isn't likely to supply enough players to replenish players that move on.

On one hand you don't think Brendan gets it right on transfers...then you turn around and praise Sturridge, Coutinho and Willian (Brendan wanted him and it wasn't his fault he didn't get him). Amazing logic being thrown around here.

I actually did imply that Brendan did get it right with Coutinho and Sturridge, did I not?

When you look at his transfer history at the club, you cannot exactly say it has been a success.

How in the world can you say that Ilori and Alberto won't improve the team? They've hardly (in Ilori's case never) played with the starters. Some of your assertions are mind blowing...they really are.

I didn't say they will NOT improve the team, I said I feel that they will not improve the team. Do you not see the distinction there? It's called an opinion, something I am totally entitled to have. From what I have seen of them, regardless how limited time they have played, I have not been convinced and maybe Brendan hasn't either. Time will tell.

So if you never want to buy players for the future, how do you ever make sure that you have kids coming through in numbers enough to feed the first team, because the academy alone isn't likely to supply enough players to replenish players that move on.

Did I actually say that I didn't want us to buy players for the future? I obviously made my frustrations known about Brendan buying unproven youngsters when personally I feel at this moment, building on the present should be the priority.

So the academy alone isn't likely to supply enough players to replenish those who move on eh? How on earth can you say that when they've hardly played with the starters yet?!! Some of your responses I find mind blowing, too.

World class players can fit into any system..

World class players can fit into any system..

That's why the Galactico's won the European Cup every year for a decade... oh wait. 

Mind you, I have a personal, fairly stict definition of World Class (and 'Legend' as well) and both terms are applied so loosely by some, nowadays, as to be virtually meaningless, in my eyes.

That's why the Galactico's won the European Cup every year for a decade... oh wait. 

Mind you, I have a personal, fairly stict definition of World Class (and 'Legend' as well) and both terms are applied so loosely by some, nowadays, as to be virtually meaningless, in my eyes.

Yes, I've heard people call Gareth Bale world class, at what exactly, being a Ronaldo wannabee...

The two aren't mutually exclusive though both cases are arguable separately - who we'd call 'top' players / will a player fit our system. For me though, 'top' players can fit into any system - that is why they are the best. Guys that walk into virtually any first XI. Again, people can argue about who are 'top' players, and there aren't many (relatively) that I'd put in that category.
This summer BR has the opportunity deal at a higher level in the transfer market. So far with Lambert and Emre we have definitely strengthened on last season - but will they be regular first XI, guys that will take the first team up a notch? Eg. a top FB would walk into the side. Interesting summer ahead.

Definitely the system has a lot more of a say than people give it credit for. I mean you have to look at a player like Juan Mata. Clearly one of the best players in the league on his day. But absolutely useless in Moyes' system. A player like Joe Allen thrives in our team but I would imagine he wouldn't fit in with Chelsea's side.

I must admit I cringe when I hear people saying we should be going after world class players. I'm not sure why. Maybe its an arrogance on my part that we make players world class rather than sign them. I think maybe my dislike of the way City and Chelsea do business, and given the season we have had this year. I had so much pride in the fact that we have a smaller wage bill smaller transfer fees etc. I think if that changed we wouldn't be as special to me. I'm not sure if that makes sense, its been a long, long day. Top post though and good discussion.

World class players can fit into any system..

You're right mate, they can but they'll be an even better player in the right system.  They can also look forlorn and lost when shoehorned into the wrong system.  There's been more than the odd one that's moved to a Club and not really hit the dizzy heights that were expected, then moved again and become the star they were.

To answer the OP, personally I'd go for the right players for the system than a better player who isn't right for the system, unless you're going to change the system to suit the player, then what's the point 

World class is a marketing term. Who wouldn't sign quality. However I'm sure we all differ in who we think quality is.

Example do we want the Bale roadshow. Every match waiting for Bale to sprint the length of the pitch and not feeling happy if he doesn't. The new breed of fan joining our ranks. I don't think anyone wants that. Ibrahimovic ..Ronaldo... No way. Reus, Varane, ... Yes.

Good OP.

I doubt there is a definitive answer either way but the first player who popped into my head when reading the OP was Sahin. A world class (considered by some), or "cultured" midfielder really struggled to make an impact at LFC. Of course there are loads of variables as to why we didn't get much out of him but given his stature as a footballer he ultimately failed to make the type of impact a player of his quality should.

He clearly didn't have the adaptability to fit into the "system" Rodgers played, or what was asked of him. With a manager (visionary) like Rodgers, I would say that his "system" comes first and the players he looks for, be it world class or otherwise fit into that system and complement each other. Players like Gerrard and Suarez who incidental are world class can play different positions that fit into the manager's system, that doesn't mean that adaptability alone is a factor in determining a world class player, although it is a massive bonus if such a player can play numerous positions very well.

Although I said that I doubt there is a definitive answer to this question, you can swing it in favour of the system (and you could do this the opposite way too) if you merely look at our performance in the league last year. Arguably we finished above Chelsea who some may argue have more world class players in their squad than us, tie this to Maureen's negative system; then compare it to our player's and system and it could reasonably be argued that as much as it was our players who finished above Chelsea, it was also the system that allowed the slightly "lesser" world class quality players to achieve a better league position.

Good topic though.

I think to BR the system and type of player is more important than reputation.  I remember one of the first interviews he did as our manager when he talked about they types of players he likes to sign - one of the things he looks for is their hunger and desire.

The other thing is the definition of "world class".  Personally I have my own definition, which is if we were creating one international type squad from the players playing at this time who would make it - this limits my thinking to say 23 players, but to me there is a difference between this and just very good players.

Well, It'd definitely be players that fit in the system and compliment those teammates who know more about what the manager is teaching in training.

An analogy- Does world class now mean someone who simply has a bit of rep coz he happens to be at a rich club and also has a team focused on providing him with the service to seem more amazing than he actually really is.
  That's not the analogy, the analogy is - say, you know of a great musician. Who, you know has brilliant mastery of his instrument and you appreciate what practice and natural skill looks/sounds like...
But..
... Some new metro sexual skinny jean wearing fucks are more popular, sell more, get credit when they actually do F**k all and have their songs made for them hire the best studios. Because they are more revered in numbers; does that make them better than the master craftsmen of a musician?


Anyway the first sentence was my answer.

World class players should be able to play in any system, hence why they are considered the best in the game.

World class players should be able to play in any system, hence why they are considered the best in the game.

Ronaldo is viewed to be one of 5 at the pinnacle of world class, I personally wouldn't have him near our team or dressing room because his attitude is self righteous and not conducive to a coherent full bonded band of brothers team.

Ronaldo is viewed to be one of 5 at the pinnacle of world class, I personally wouldn't have him near our team or dressing room because his attitude is self righteous and not conducive to a coherent full bonded band of brothers team.

I would agree with you, hes an arrogant "its all about me" pr**k and i never want to see him in a Liverpool shirt.  That doesn't detract from my point though. The arguments on this thread are whether to look at people that fit in the system, or world class players. A true world class player can play anywhere.

Back to the Ronaldo example; hes world class, he could play anywhere across the front line, hes not restricted to a system. I wouldn't like to see him in our team, but would he succeed in it, if he was brought in? You'd be a fool to think he wouldn't.

I would agree with you, hes an arrogant "its all about me" pr**k and i never want to see him in a Liverpool shirt.  That doesn't detract from my point though. The arguments on this thread are whether to look at people that fit in the system, or world class players. A true world class player can play anywhere.

Back to the Ronaldo example; hes world class, he could play anywhere across the front line, hes not restricted to a system. I wouldn't like to see him in our team, but would he succeed in it, if he was brought in? You'd be a fool to think he wouldn't.

I know what you mean and meant.
I wrote something thoughtful on the subject but my internet went berserk and I erased it forever haha
It's bad when that happens, it stings in the worst way.

I think it's good to make up-and-coming new players world class too, so hopefully the coaches can do that.
Pick the right men n that.

Imagine having tons of egos floating around, stropping around the pitch, all wanting the limelight, hogging the ball etc

Some world class players don't need that brand of arrogance to succeed to the highest levels, they just train hard and do what they do best, keep learning with the least amount of fuss or wannabe pop star antics.


Like Suarez, Messi, Aguero, Zabaleta, Cech, Gerrard and so on, all players with the drive and determination and belief in themselves, but they just get on with it.
Not batshit nutz like a Gazza type of footballer.

I'm tired, think I'm going to bed.

World Class players can a system better see Barca, a system can make World Class players look worse see Mourinho's Madrid.

Double edged Sword really, don't think Rodgers system requires World Class players as such, 'The team is the star' but then again, stick a world class back 5 in front of our midfield and forwards and we'd have won the league at a canter last season.