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      Adam Lallana (End of contract, BHA)

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      Thaddeus
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      Re: Adam Lallana Player Thread
      Reply #552: Mar 11, 2015 06:35:01 pm
      Of attacking midfielders bought by big clubs for 20m or more, Fabregas is towards the upper end of what you expect. Lallana is just about achieving expectations, being held back by his injuries. I think Lallana might turn out to be quite excellent for us. The first touch for his offside goal against City was as good as any I've seen.

      Just as a little thought experiment I thought I might list some other AMs bought for large fees and have a go at ranking them.

      David Silva - 25-30m Exact Price Unclear (EPU)
      Averages 6 goals a season and 8 assists. Whilst he may not have the highest goal contribution of those on this list, he oozes quality out of every pore. Notably he also doesn't seem like a total c**t, which is rare for an Oil club player.

      Samir Nasri - 25m

      4 goals a season and just under 8 assists. He gets ok-ish numbers, but to me seems the essence of the MotD player, absolutely invisible for 85 minutes per game. Massive dickhead.

      Fabregas - 30m
      His stats have been posted already. As for my analysis I am only including premier league contributions above a certain age, there is not enough data, but it looks like he was a really high quality purchase.

      Oscar - 20m
      He too has little data meeting my criteria for comparable analysis but I'm including him for shits and giggles. 6 goals a season and just under 5 assists. I've never been to convinced that he is a top quality player, but it is worth noting he looks to be improving significantly each year. Little piece of chickenshit.

      Willian - 30m
      3 goals and 2 assists a season. Is actually much better than his numbers suggest. Often plays as a technical water carrier.

      Hazard - 32m
      12 goals and 9 assists per season and looking to increase that significantly this year. He does take pens though so that skews things a little. I was unsure whether to put him on this list as he really is more like a wide striker - either way, fantastic player.

      Cuadrado - 27m
      Nothing really to say at this point. Not been hugely impressed by him.

      Cazorla - 16-20m EPU
      8 goals and 9 assists. Much better first season than second season. This one looks to be somewhere in between. Can go missing at times, but even still was good value even for the high end of the fee.

      Ozil - 42m
      5 goals 9 assists, just off course for the same this season. Despite reasonable numbers, typically is a total passenger in the Arsenal side, and when he plays badly, so does the whole Arsenal team. If I were Wenger, I would be reticent to play him at all as when he is bad he costs the team far more than what he brings when he is good. Disaster of a signing.

      Ashley Young - 20m
      Just under 3 goals a season, and 3 assistswith 2/3 of both coming in his first season for united. Atrocious little sh*te.

      Fellaineh - 27m
      Was a number 10 for Everton, his current position seems to be target man so I feel he is worth including in this list. No goals and 1 assist in his first season. Scored 3 so far this season by having balls pinged at his oversized follically burdened head.

      Di Maria - 60m
      Hahahahahahahahahaha

      Juan Mata - 37m
      6 goals and 4 assists last season in half a season, looks unlikely to extend the same rate in a full season though. Looks out of place and lost. Great player, doesn't fit. Rubbish beard.

      Nani - 20m
      7 goals and 10 assists a season in his first 3 seasons, 0.3 goals and 0.6 assists per season in the next three. Been shipped out on loan to SL.

      Lamela - 30m
      Again too young for fair comparison, but hardly been great

      Lallana - anywhere from 18m to 25m
      Last season got 9 goals and 5 assists for Southampton. His current assist and scoring rates have been higher this year, but he has missed more game time. Should still match last seasons contribution if he stays fit.

      1[Hazard]
      2Silva
      3Fabregas
      4=Lallana
      4=Oscar
      4=Cazorla
      7 Willian
      8 Cuadrado
      9 Di Maria
      10 Lamela
      11 Juan Mata
      12 Young
      13 Nani
      14 Ozil
      15 Fellaini

      All data from whoscored and averaged in my head. Methodology not 100% consistent for each player, but all figures accurate enough for casual observations. All rankings based on current whims, and I think I might have been excessively harsh on Ozil and maybe generous to Willian.
      Thaddeus
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      Re: Adam Lallana Player Thread
      Reply #553: Mar 11, 2015 06:42:53 pm
      Holistically speaking, even if you quibble with certain details of my previous, its unfair to selective pick out Fabregas and say we got bad value for money, when that's towards the upper end of what you'd expect for that sort of money. We've not done badly with Lallana at all.
      HScRed1
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      Re: Adam Lallana Player Thread
      Reply #554: Mar 11, 2015 11:07:42 pm
      Cazorla should easily be higher in your list and above Lallana imo.
      Thaddeus
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      Re: Adam Lallana Player Thread
      Reply #555: Mar 12, 2015 12:42:48 am
      Cazorla should easily be higher in your list and above Lallana imo.

      Read the post directly above yours. More specifically, the quibble part. Obviously no-one is going to agree 100% with my list; hell, I probably won't tomorrow morning, but it provides a framework for a comparison of what others in the league have got for the same kind of money.
      federer
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      Re: Adam Lallana Player Thread
      Reply #556: Mar 13, 2015 11:54:07 pm
      Saw this somewhere today---we'd be laughing our arses off at the Mancs if they bought Lallana for what we paid for him and he then played for them like he does for us.  and it's so true.

      he's just another overpriced, mediocre player.  Not terrible.  But nothing to write home about.  Just a decent squad player. And yet we spunked more than twenty million on him in the summer.

      That's the harsh reality.

      we need more top quality signings.  Players like Coutinho, Sturridge, Can, etc.  no more Lallanas and Joe Allens.  Top quality, whether it costs a little or a lot.
      Lio Varadkar
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      Re: Adam Lallana Player Thread
      Reply #557: Mar 14, 2015 01:00:13 am
      but Lallana is top quality at what he does. Lamela is not.
      FL Red
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      Re: Adam Lallana Player Thread
      Reply #558: Mar 14, 2015 01:06:25 am
      Saw this somewhere today---we'd be laughing our arses off at the Mancs if they bought Lallana for what we paid for him and he then played for them like he does for us.  and it's so true.

      he's just another overpriced, mediocre player.  Not terrible.  But nothing to write home about.  Just a decent squad player. And yet we spunked more than twenty million on him in the summer.

      That's the harsh reality.

      we need more top quality signings.  Players like Coutinho, Sturridge, Can, etc.  no more Lallanas and Joe Allens.  Top quality, whether it costs a little or a lot.

      Just because you keep repeating it doesn't make it true.
      federer
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      Re: Adam Lallana Player Thread
      Reply #559: Mar 14, 2015 02:10:33 am
      Just because you keep repeating it doesn't make it true.

      I'm not the only who thinks it.

      but Lallana is top quality at what he does. Lamela is not.

      neither is really top quality.
      AlexLFC95
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      Re: Adam Lallana Player Thread
      Reply #560: Mar 14, 2015 02:26:47 am
      Having seen him in top form last season at Southampton it's clear to me he isn't producing his best yet. He's had the odd game here and there where he has been fantastic like Swansea at home so there is clearly talent there, but it hasn't been produced often enough. For the most part he's been solid, always works hard and presses which is perfect for us and he fits well into our side.

      Good technical attributes like his touch, balance, dribbling, his final ball can also be pretty good whilst inconsistent, for example his cross for Balotelli against Tottenham was fantastic, and he hit a great ball over the top for Lambert against Palace. He hasn't quite linked up with Sturridge just yet, though nobody really has in fairness.

      He's definitely been worth buying. Whether he's worth the 20-25 million we've spent on him can only be decided over the next couple of years in my opinion but I think his chances of being a success here are pretty good based on what I've seen so far, both in person at the ground and on tv.
      fishpie
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      Re: Adam Lallana Player Thread
      Reply #561: Mar 14, 2015 03:16:31 am
      Saw this somewhere today---we'd be laughing our arses off at the Mancs if they bought Lallana for what we paid for him and he then played for them like he does for us.  and it's so true.

      he's just another overpriced, mediocre player.  Not terrible.  But nothing to write home about.  Just a decent squad player. And yet we spunked more than twenty million on him in the summer.

      That's the harsh reality.

      we need more top quality signings.  Players like Coutinho, Sturridge, Can, etc.  no more Lallanas and Joe Allens.  Top quality, whether it costs a little or a lot.

      Are you serious kid? If so, wth.
      fishpie
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      Re: Adam Lallana Player Thread
      Reply #562: Mar 14, 2015 03:20:48 am
      Btw English or half English players like this.. if they were Brazilian people would be pontificating about their supreme ability.
      And (yes starting a sentence with and is frowned upon) Coutinho is Brazilian and doesn't really get that treatment even as a Brazilian. Just now people in the media are saying he's great. weird life.
      bazspeedman
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      Re: Adam Lallana Player Thread
      Reply #563: Mar 14, 2015 11:11:09 am
      Saw this somewhere today---we'd be laughing our arses off at the Mancs if they bought Lallana for what we paid for him and he then played for them like he does for us.  and it's so true.

      he's just another overpriced, mediocre player.  Not terrible.  But nothing to write home about.  Just a decent squad player. And yet we spunked more than twenty million on him in the summer.

      That's the harsh reality.

      we need more top quality signings.  Players like Coutinho, Sturridge, Can, etc.  no more Lallanas and Joe Allens.  Top quality, whether it costs a little or a lot.

      f***in attention whores these days  :roll:
      mcarz
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      Re: Adam Lallana Player Thread
      Reply #564: Mar 14, 2015 11:44:59 am
      Of attacking midfielders bought by big clubs for 20m or more, Fabregas is towards the upper end of what you expect. Lallana is just about achieving expectations, being held back by his injuries. I think Lallana might turn out to be quite excellent for us. The first touch for his offside goal against City was as good as any I've seen.

      Just as a little thought experiment I thought I might list some other AMs bought for large fees and have a go at ranking them.

      David Silva - 25-30m Exact Price Unclear (EPU)
      Averages 6 goals a season and 8 assists. Whilst he may not have the highest goal contribution of those on this list, he oozes quality out of every pore. Notably he also doesn't seem like a total c**t, which is rare for an Oil club player.

      Samir Nasri - 25m

      4 goals a season and just under 8 assists. He gets ok-ish numbers, but to me seems the essence of the MotD player, absolutely invisible for 85 minutes per game. Massive dickhead.

      Fabregas - 30m
      His stats have been posted already. As for my analysis I am only including premier league contributions above a certain age, there is not enough data, but it looks like he was a really high quality purchase.

      Oscar - 20m
      He too has little data meeting my criteria for comparable analysis but I'm including him for shits and giggles. 6 goals a season and just under 5 assists. I've never been to convinced that he is a top quality player, but it is worth noting he looks to be improving significantly each year. Little piece of chickenshit.

      Willian - 30m
      3 goals and 2 assists a season. Is actually much better than his numbers suggest. Often plays as a technical water carrier.

      Hazard - 32m
      12 goals and 9 assists per season and looking to increase that significantly this year. He does take pens though so that skews things a little. I was unsure whether to put him on this list as he really is more like a wide striker - either way, fantastic player.

      Cuadrado - 27m
      Nothing really to say at this point. Not been hugely impressed by him.

      Cazorla - 16-20m EPU
      8 goals and 9 assists. Much better first season than second season. This one looks to be somewhere in between. Can go missing at times, but even still was good value even for the high end of the fee.

      Ozil - 42m
      5 goals 9 assists, just off course for the same this season. Despite reasonable numbers, typically is a total passenger in the Arsenal side, and when he plays badly, so does the whole Arsenal team. If I were Wenger, I would be reticent to play him at all as when he is bad he costs the team far more than what he brings when he is good. Disaster of a signing.

      Ashley Young - 20m
      Just under 3 goals a season, and 3 assistswith 2/3 of both coming in his first season for united. Atrocious little sh*te.

      Fellaineh - 27m
      Was a number 10 for Everton, his current position seems to be target man so I feel he is worth including in this list. No goals and 1 assist in his first season. Scored 3 so far this season by having balls pinged at his oversized follically burdened head.

      Di Maria - 60m
      Hahahahahahahahahaha

      Juan Mata - 37m
      6 goals and 4 assists last season in half a season, looks unlikely to extend the same rate in a full season though. Looks out of place and lost. Great player, doesn't fit. Rubbish beard.

      Nani - 20m
      7 goals and 10 assists a season in his first 3 seasons, 0.3 goals and 0.6 assists per season in the next three. Been shipped out on loan to SL.

      Lamela - 30m
      Again too young for fair comparison, but hardly been great

      Lallana - anywhere from 18m to 25m
      Last season got 9 goals and 5 assists for Southampton. His current assist and scoring rates have been higher this year, but he has missed more game time. Should still match last seasons contribution if he stays fit.

      1[Hazard]
      2Silva
      3Fabregas
      4=Lallana
      4=Oscar
      4=Cazorla
      7 Willian
      8 Cuadrado
      9 Di Maria
      10 Lamela
      11 Juan Mata
      12 Young
      13 Nani
      14 Ozil
      15 Fellaini

      All data from whoscored and averaged in my head. Methodology not 100% consistent for each player, but all figures accurate enough for casual observations. All rankings based on current whims, and I think I might have been excessively harsh on Ozil and maybe generous to Willian.

      Sorry mate but that ranking list is poor IMO. Young ahead of Ozil? Lallana at 4? Also, you said Hazard is a wide forward but he plays the same position as Cuadrado, Nani and one or two of the others.
      mcarz
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      Re: Adam Lallana Player Thread
      Reply #565: Mar 14, 2015 12:19:13 pm
      Saw this somewhere today---we'd be laughing our arses off at the Mancs if they bought Lallana for what we paid for him and he then played for them like he does for us.  and it's so true.

      he's just another overpriced, mediocre player.  Not terrible.  But nothing to write home about.  Just a decent squad player. And yet we spunked more than twenty million on him in the summer.

      That's the harsh reality.

      we need more top quality signings.  Players like Coutinho, Sturridge, Can, etc.  no more Lallanas and Joe Allens.  Top quality, whether it costs a little or a lot.

      I agree with parts of your post but disagree with others.

      I disagree with the fact that we'd be laughing at the Mancs if they had signed him, we would however have been laughing at them for how they'd have utilised him. Whilst I wouldn't put him in the category of a £25m player, he's English so you have to expect an inflated price, that's just the way today's market is.

      I agree though that he isn't top quality but I don't see the likes of Oscar, Silva, Ozil etc. chasing down every ball and playing our style of pressing from the front. The player first and foremost has to fit our system and if that's what the manager wants more over anything else then that's the way it's going to be.

      Those top quality players you named were only young when they signed but had potential and sometimes they pay off but sometimes they don't. We got lucky with those three.


      TheRedMosquito
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      Re: Adam Lallana Player Thread
      Reply #566: Mar 14, 2015 03:40:37 pm
      Whilst I wouldn't put him in the category of a £25m player, he's English so you have to expect an inflated price, that's just the way today's market is.


      Bournemouth also had a 25 percent sell-on clause that Southampton needed to pay once they sold Lallana. That bit seems to have slipped by everyone.
      Thaddeus
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      Re: Adam Lallana Player Thread
      Reply #567: Mar 14, 2015 03:44:43 pm
      Sorry mate but that ranking list is poor IMO. Young ahead of Ozil? Lallana at 4? Also, you said Hazard is a wide forward but he plays the same position as Cuadrado, Nani and one or two of the others.

      Young actually was quite decent for the Mancs initially. There is also an element of price weighting in my list, hence Ozil being so bad. Also I believe when Ozil is bad, he is really bad in such a way that it is only mild hyperbole to say they'd be better with 10.
      I included Hazard in the end anyway so I don't understand why you posted that, but lets be honest, Hazard is far closer to a striker than Cuadrado or Nani.

      Edit: Even if I concede your point, that's still a pretty minor quibble with the list.
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: Adam Lallana Player Thread
      Reply #568: Mar 14, 2015 07:15:42 pm
      Got to say I'm still a big Lallana fan, I believe if it wasn't for Coutinho's form, most of our play would be going through Adam.
      I can see them forming a good understanding in midfield.
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Adam Lallana Player Thread
      Reply #569: Mar 14, 2015 08:37:39 pm
      Saw this somewhere today---we'd be laughing our arses off at the Mancs if they bought Lallana for what we paid for him and he then played for them like he does for us.  and it's so true.

      he's just another overpriced, mediocre player.  Not terrible.  But nothing to write home about.  Just a decent squad player. And yet we spunked more than twenty million on him in the summer.

      That's the harsh reality.

      we need more top quality signings.  Players like Coutinho, Sturridge, Can, etc.  no more Lallanas and Joe Allens.  Top quality, whether it costs a little or a lot.

      FWIW Fed I agree with you wholeheartedly.
      7-King Kenny-7
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      Re: Adam Lallana Player Thread
      Reply #570: Mar 14, 2015 11:57:29 pm
      FWIW Fed I agree with you wholeheartedly.

      Trouble with Lallana, well one of them anyway - Is that he's English, if he wasn't English I am 99% confident that we would have probably of had to only pay half that figure we did for him.
      -LFC-
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      Re: Adam Lallana Player Thread
      Reply #571: Mar 15, 2015 12:00:01 am
      Got to say I'm still a big Lallana fan, I believe if it wasn't for Coutinho's form, most of our play would be going through Adam.
      I can see them forming a good understanding in midfield.

      Same here. Can't believe some of the rubbish people come out with at times. ''Mediocre'', ''just a decent squad player'', ''not terrible''? Who/what are they watching? He's a very good player, not top bracket, not Coutinho, but still very good. He suits our style of play, has an excellent skill set, and a brilliant attitude and work rate. I'm happy he's in our squad. Yes, we'd have preferred Fabregas, Pogba etc. (and we will need to add players of a similar calibre in future) but in the circumstances he wasn't bad buy at all. I wonder actually how many of those who don't rate Adam defended Aquilani 'til the last? There was 20m well and truly spunked.
      srslfc
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      Re: Adam Lallana Player Thread
      Reply #572: Mar 15, 2015 12:04:47 am
      Trouble with Lallana, well one of them anyway - Is that he's English, if he wasn't English I am 99% confident that we would have probably of had to only pay half that figure we did for him.

      Probably.

      But then many wouldn't be half as quick to be critical of him because of that lower fee.

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      Re: Adam Lallana Player Thread
      Reply #573: Mar 15, 2015 12:05:49 am
      Probably.

      But then many wouldn't be half as quick to be critical of him because of that lower fee.



      Course not but it's like anything, the more you pay, the better you expect it to be.
      srslfc
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      Re: Adam Lallana Player Thread
      Reply #574: Mar 15, 2015 12:08:37 am
      Course not but it's like anything, the more you pay, the better you expect it to be.

      Again probably mate but as I always say the amount you pay for a footballer will never change how well he can play the game.

      For the record I think Lallana is a very good footballer no matter how much we paid for him and I think he is gradually coming into his own and we will see the best of him as this season goes on and into next.

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