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      Life without Luis

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      Paisleydalglish
      • Guest
      Life without Luis
      Jul 05, 2014 02:48:08 pm
      Now i want to start this by saying im going to miss Luis just as much as everyone else, and the things he has given us in the last couple of years he deserves our thanks, the fact we are back in the Champions League we should remember him as playing a big part in that

      However the talk i keep reading that we cant replace him, that our forward progression as a club again could stop.. Im not having that, like with everything we will adapt and continue, one player doesnt make a club, and for as good as he has been he doesnt define us. We have been built to play through him over the last couple of seasons, we have been built to get the best out of him, like before we were built to get the best out of Torres.. We will adapt, we will build a side around the next fulcrum of what will define us going forward.

      Brendan came in and spoke about his vision, his want to play the way he thinks the game should be, yet he adapted once he got here because he realised his best player didnt really fit that vision, that philosiphy, we praised him for doing so, im confident that going forward he will adapt again now he doesnt have him.
      Last season we did all we could to play two up top, we tried variations on formation but 90% of the time when Suarez and Sturridge were available we played them as a two, whether that be a 4-4-2, a diamond, a 3-5-2.. All these had the two through the middle.


      Draw your tactical diagram with this11.com


      Draw your tactical diagram with this11.com

      Not for me the way Brendan see's his ideal set up, what i see him doing is not directly replacing him but adjusting the system to suit.. I think for the most part we will play with a lone striker going into games next season, i think that the model of player we will bring in, of which i still expect there to be 3 or 4 more to come in on the back of Luis moving on, but the model will be wide attackers who can play wide of the main striker

      More like this


      Use this11.com for drawing your football tactics

      Id expect us to naturally be tighter at the back by having a more traditional set up, i think we will target players who are really adaptable in terms of position, and flexable in game, that the wide options will be comfortable to switch in game with Sturridge, that they will have the ability to drop in and make a five in midfield, that the full backs wont be so gung-ho, that we will see Coutinho, Sterling and Lallana all play at times as no.10s behind the main striker, rather than behind a front two and taking each others space, i would expect to see 2 really exciting players come in as wide options who could also play through the middle as and when needed.. I think in certain games we may well see Stevie behind a midfield 3 of say Can, Lallana and Henderson with Coutinho as a natural 10 behind a striker, with no particular width but with players flexable enough to go wide in Hendo and Lallana as and when the game dictates, but it will be a solid base to work off in say big games at home or in Europe..

      Like this


      Soccer formations made easy with this11.com

      At the minute we will miss him of course but the end of the world? Not for me.. Say we sign Markovic and Shaqiri we could well have a squad that is so fleaxable yet defensivly more compact than this year, the goals we lose from Luis, and his enterprise can be replaced by the talents of the likes of Markovic, Shaqiri and Lallana going forward, and if we tighten up at the back we maybe dont need to replace all of his goals..
      I think with the likes of Raheem we could have another that is thought of as a world talent in the next 18 months, someone who will grab games and dictate them, he could play through the middle and i think he will get more goals this coming season, as i think will Danny.
      We still need to add a couple here and there but i fully expect us to do so

      None of us wanted to lose Luis, but once it happens we could well see more of the managers overall original plan

      Dont bemoan the departure of one player, look forward and enjoy the future because i dont think its as bad as some think it may be
      reddebs
      • "LFC Hipster"
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      • 17,980 posts | 2264 
      Re: Life without Luis
      Reply #1: Jul 05, 2014 03:45:32 pm
      Great topic mate and I absolutely agree.

      Not since Paisley have I had so much belief in a Manager as I have in Brendan.  Yes Kenny achieved great things as our Manager but he really just continued what had gone before whereas Bob improved every aspect of what went before and made us a phenomenally slick, winning machine.

      His vision really is "the team is the star" and although Luis will be a big loss, his departure isn't going to see the fall of Liverpool FC.  Used correctly, the money we get from him sale will help strengthen the squad across the board and also consolidate our place in the CL.  Despite the references to the Spuds situation last summer Brendan is a far better coach than AVB, with a better core of players already accustomed to his systems and methods.

      As I've said a few times, we're far better placed for losing him now than we were last summer but it was always inevitable he would go.
      OConnor
      • Forum Erik Meijer
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      Re: Life without Luis
      Reply #2: Jul 05, 2014 05:39:44 pm
      Totally agree with this, We have lost our best players in the past and we have adapted. I am sure with the signings we have already made and the signings we are surely going to make we will be a force again this season coming.
      Scottbot
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      • 9,542 posts | 2135 
      Re: Life without Luis
      Reply #3: Jul 05, 2014 08:08:26 pm
      Great OP PD! I guess we have all been thinking about this for a little while now. My initial thoughts and fears are:

      Positives:

      - Brendan won't be spending all of his time trying his best to get two strikers into the side as a front two and as a result we might become a little more solid defensively. It's tough to play 4-4-2 in the modern game although the manager seemed to crack it with the 4-4-2 diamond during the run-in. We are more likely to play with a lone striker and 3 in behind or an out an out 4-3-3 next season.

      - Sterling will get better, in fact maybe we don't even need another striker. I mentioned a few times last season that I felt Raheem could play as a number 9 in the future, he is incredibly strong, lightening quick, has tricks in his locker and an finish. He also looked very comfortable playing through central areas at the back end of the season. He will only get better.

      - Danny Sturridge is ready to step up and be the main man now. He has had 18 months as the junior partner but now he has an opportunity to be THE MAN. He is more than capable of getting 25-30 goals a season.

      Worries:

      - Sturridge's brittle body, he has always been a sick note and that hasn't really changed at LFC. If Danny gets injured we are in trouble. I applauded the Lambert signing, it was clever and he will be a useful player BUT I worry if we are suddenly leaning and relying on him to carry too much on his shoulders.

      - As good as the likes of Sterling, Coutinho and Sterling are none of them can conjure that moment of magic that Luis produced so many times last season. Obviously there will be some decent money to spend BUT I don't know if we can attract close to the level we are losing in Luis? Sanchez would have been a fine acquisition but it looks like a no no. We need a player of that ilk but I suspect we will have to make do with a couple of lesser players who are (as yet) unproven. I don't think we necessarily need a number 9, we need a tweeter (like Sanchez) who is equally comfortable playing a wide or through the middle.

      Frankly, Mr Shankly
      • Guest
      Re: Life without Luis
      Reply #4: Jul 05, 2014 08:10:29 pm
      He'll miss us more than we'll miss him especially if Barcelona come to Anfield.

      The makeup of the midfield makes for a fascinating discussion for the season ahead. I think it's vital that Sterling heads the tip of the midfield as his form showed in the second half of last season.



      Still a big fan of this idea. Great job PD.
      Scottbot
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      Re: Life without Luis
      Reply #5: Jul 05, 2014 08:13:02 pm
      He'll miss us more than we'll miss him when Barca come to Anfield.

      You just know we will be drawn in the same group!
      Paisleydalglish
      • Guest
      Re: Life without Luis
      Reply #6: Jul 05, 2014 08:56:16 pm
      Great OP PD! I guess we have all been thinking about this for a little while now. My initial thoughts and fears are:

      Positives:

      - Brendan won't be spending all of his time trying his best to get two strikers into the side as a front two and as a result we might become a little more solid defensively. It's tough to play 4-4-2 in the modern game although the manager seemed to crack it with the 4-4-2 diamond during the run-in. We are more likely to play with a lone striker and 3 in behind or an out an out 4-3-3 next season.

      - Sterling will get better, in fact maybe we don't even need another striker. I mentioned a few times last season that I felt Raheem could play as a number 9 in the future, he is incredibly strong, lightening quick, has tricks in his locker and an finish. He also looked very comfortable playing through central areas at the back end of the season. He will only get better.

      - Danny Sturridge is ready to step up and be the main man now. He has had 18 months as the junior partner but now he has an opportunity to be THE MAN. He is more than capable of getting 25-30 goals a season.

      Worries:

      - Sturridge's brittle body, he has always been a sick note and that hasn't really changed at LFC. If Danny gets injured we are in trouble. I applauded the Lambert signing, it was clever and he will be a useful player BUT I worry if we are suddenly leaning and relying on him to carry too much on his shoulders.

      - As good as the likes of Sterling, Coutinho and Sterling are none of them can conjure that moment of magic that Luis produced so many times last season. Obviously there will be some decent money to spend BUT I don't know if we can attract close to the level we are losing in Luis? Sanchez would have been a fine acquisition but it looks like a no no. We need a player of that ilk but I suspect we will have to make do with a couple of lesser players who are (as yet) unproven. I don't think we necessarily need a number 9, we need a tweeter (like Sanchez) who is equally comfortable playing a wide or through the middle.

      I agree with all your points Scotty lad

      I tried not to focus on the negative sides but you are spot on with those as well, I worry about Danny's body holding up to 50 games a year, but I don't really see us bringing another main no.9 in, at least possibly not until the winter window.. For a couple of reasons, one being that I think he will want to give Danny the major boost to his confidence that he is now the main man, and he will try to manage him with using Rickie to rotate him and rest him here and there.. Two, I actually completely agree on Raheem, I think he is  or has the potential to be a better version of an Owen, I think he has the lot and can play through the middle too.
      I think his signings the rest of the window will be wide forwards in the mould of Sanchez/Shaqiri/Markovic who if need be could move inside as well.

      I completely agree that the main headache the gaffer had was keeping both Suarez and Sturridge happy and central, and as much as it was a headache I'm sure he would like to have had again this year I think him formulating a formation will be easier going forward..

      It's not all doom and gloom, but we need to get a couple of gems in the market in the next few weeks to compliment what we have and give the current lads a boost that they will need with losing Luis

      Cracking post though mate
      Paisleydalglish
      • Guest
      Re: Life without Luis
      Reply #7: Jul 05, 2014 08:59:09 pm
      He'll miss us more than we'll miss him especially if Barcelona come to Anfield.

      The makeup of the midfield makes for a fascinating discussion for the season ahead. I think it's vital that Sterling heads the tip of the midfield as his form showed in the second half of last season.



      Still a big fan of this idea. Great job PD.

      Completely agree mate that the midfield set up is key this season, I think that's why we are bringing in more options there, and options that are versatile enough to move around and play different roles in there.

      We need control in the midfield, control the middle of the park, control the game
      KopiteLuke
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
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      Re: Life without Luis
      Reply #8: Jul 05, 2014 09:10:21 pm
      Great OP PD! I guess we have all been thinking about this for a little while now. My initial thoughts and fears are:

      Positives:

      - Brendan won't be spending all of his time trying his best to get two strikers into the side as a front two and as a result we might become a little more solid defensively. It's tough to play 4-4-2 in the modern game although the manager seemed to crack it with the 4-4-2 diamond during the run-in. We are more likely to play with a lone striker and 3 in behind or an out an out 4-3-3 next season.

      - Sterling will get better, in fact maybe we don't even need another striker. I mentioned a few times last season that I felt Raheem could play as a number 9 in the future, he is incredibly strong, lightening quick, has tricks in his locker and an finish. He also looked very comfortable playing through central areas at the back end of the season. He will only get better.

      - Danny Sturridge is ready to step up and be the main man now. He has had 18 months as the junior partner but now he has an opportunity to be THE MAN. He is more than capable of getting 25-30 goals a season.

      Worries:

      - Sturridge's brittle body, he has always been a sick note and that hasn't really changed at LFC. If Danny gets injured we are in trouble. I applauded the Lambert signing, it was clever and he will be a useful player BUT I worry if we are suddenly leaning and relying on him to carry too much on his shoulders.

      - As good as the likes of Sterling, Coutinho and Sterling are none of them can conjure that moment of magic that Luis produced so many times last season. Obviously there will be some decent money to spend BUT I don't know if we can attract close to the level we are losing in Luis? Sanchez would have been a fine acquisition but it looks like a no no. We need a player of that ilk but I suspect we will have to make do with a couple of lesser players who are (as yet) unproven. I don't think we necessarily need a number 9, we need a tweeter (like Sanchez) who is equally comfortable playing a wide or through the middle.



      Cracking OP and cracking post here Scott, agree with it completely.

      I'd add to the negatives that there's a worry Suarez attracted a lot of attention from defenders last year so gave space to others that they wont be afforded in his absence.

      I do feel it will allow others to step up their game as sometimes players, especially Sterling, looked as if they were obliged to pass to Suarez. Never like that personally.
      lester76
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      Re: Life without Luis
      Reply #9: Jul 06, 2014 01:23:31 am
      Agree luke
      Perhaps taking Suarez out of the equation especially how well we did when Luis wasn't available to BR last season has actually cemented the foundation of a full team for the coming season.
      Too often last year we, and the players, looked to Luis to create something and dig us out of a hole.
      Now the proof is evident that we can actually get successful results without him.
      The issue is whether that translate to a full season and with the additions that we are surely to make.
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: Life without Luis
      Reply #10: Jul 06, 2014 06:24:14 am
      Personally I'm going to miss watching Luis do the things that only Luis can do. At times last season he has having his own goal of the year competition, those "holy sh*t " goals, his turning defenders inside out, his unbelievable work rate, his eye for a pass were all things that made him stand out last season.
      We haven't had a player like that since Fowler, damn right I'm going to miss him!
      Beerbelly
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      Re: Life without Luis
      Reply #11: Jul 06, 2014 06:48:17 am
      Now i want to start this by saying im going to miss Luis just as much as everyone else, and the things he has given us in the last couple of years he deserves our thanks, the fact we are back in the Champions League we should remember him as playing a big part in that

      However the talk i keep reading that we cant replace him, that our forward progression as a club again could stop.. Im not having that, like with everything we will adapt and continue, one player doesnt make a club, and for as good as he has been he doesnt define us. We have been built to play through him over the last couple of seasons, we have been built to get the best out of him, like before we were built to get the best out of Torres.. We will adapt, we will build a side around the next fulcrum of what will define us going forward.

      Brendan came in and spoke about his vision, his want to play the way he thinks the game should be, yet he adapted once he got here because he realised his best player didnt really fit that vision, that philosiphy, we praised him for doing so, im confident that going forward he will adapt again now he doesnt have him.
      Last season we did all we could to play two up top, we tried variations on formation but 90% of the time when Suarez and Sturridge were available we played them as a two, whether that be a 4-4-2, a diamond, a 3-5-2.. All these had the two through the middle.


      Draw your tactical diagram with this11.com


      Draw your tactical diagram with this11.com

      Not for me the way Brendan see's his ideal set up, what i see him doing is not directly replacing him but adjusting the system to suit.. I think for the most part we will play with a lone striker going into games next season, i think that the model of player we will bring in, of which i still expect there to be 3 or 4 more to come in on the back of Luis moving on, but the model will be wide attackers who can play wide of the main striker

      More like this


      Use this11.com for drawing your football tactics

      Id expect us to naturally be tighter at the back by having a more traditional set up, i think we will target players who are really adaptable in terms of position, and flexable in game, that the wide options will be comfortable to switch in game with Sturridge, that they will have the ability to drop in and make a five in midfield, that the full backs wont be so gung-ho, that we will see Coutinho, Sterling and Lallana all play at times as no.10s behind the main striker, rather than behind a front two and taking each others space, i would expect to see 2 really exciting players come in as wide options who could also play through the middle as and when needed.. I think in certain games we may well see Stevie behind a midfield 3 of say Can, Lallana and Henderson with Coutinho as a natural 10 behind a striker, with no particular width but with players flexable enough to go wide in Hendo and Lallana as and when the game dictates, but it will be a solid base to work off in say big games at home or in Europe..

      Like this


      Soccer formations made easy with this11.com

      At the minute we will miss him of course but the end of the world? Not for me.. Say we sign Markovic and Shaqiri we could well have a squad that is so fleaxable yet defensivly more compact than this year, the goals we lose from Luis, and his enterprise can be replaced by the talents of the likes of Markovic, Shaqiri and Lallana going forward, and if we tighten up at the back we maybe dont need to replace all of his goals..
      I think with the likes of Raheem we could have another that is thought of as a world talent in the next 18 months, someone who will grab games and dictate them, he could play through the middle and i think he will get more goals this coming season, as i think will Danny.
      We still need to add a couple here and there but i fully expect us to do so

      None of us wanted to lose Luis, but once it happens we could well see more of the managers overall original plan

      Dont bemoan the departure of one player, look forward and enjoy the future because i dont think its as bad as some think it may be

      Excellent post PD, and one that aptly reminds us (myself included) how to move on without such a phenomenal player in our ranks. There are many good points, statements and quotes in that post I like which keeps a positive perspective on things.

      I like this quote for the underlying sentiments about our club and how we can move on which of course is a very true statement.

      Quote
      Im not having that, like with everything we will adapt and continue, one player doesnt make a club, and for as good as he has been he doesnt define us. We have been built to play through him over the last couple of seasons, we have been built to get the best out of him, like before we were built to get the best out of Torres.. We will adapt, we will build a side around the next fulcrum of what will define us going forward.
       

      From a tactical point of view this is also a very good point - it may see us conceding less goals, something many condemned this side for.

      Quote
      Id expect us to naturally be tighter at the back by having a more traditional set up, i think we will target players who are really adaptable in terms of position, and flexable in game, that the wide options will be comfortable to switch in game with Sturridge, that they will have the ability to drop in and make a five in midfield,

      All in all, good thinking PD, I like both the sentimental points about OUR club and the tactical alternatives. On top of this, will still have Rodgers and he's a huge plus in my opinion, a young visionary who has confidence, ability and great man management skills to get the best out of his players.

      + 1


      Muzzman1969
      • Forum Ian Callaghan
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      Re: Life without Luis
      Reply #12: Jul 06, 2014 09:15:25 am
      As much as we will miss his individual brilliance I think that we will be in a much better place when he leaves than we were when he joined.  It will all be about the balance of the team in the coming season.  Some of the formations above look pretty good, and let's face it we would expect some more players coming in.
      dunlop liddell shankly
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      Re: Life without Luis
      Reply #13: Jul 06, 2014 11:45:54 am
      If we go one up top and it is Sturridge then we're going to need players who happily and willingly run in behind because Danny likes to drop deep. If he does that and nobody moves into that space then we're gonna have no threat. At least with Suarez in the side, there would always be somebody in the box - whether Luis or Danny.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Life without Luis
      Reply #14: Jul 06, 2014 12:14:05 pm
      Get Rushie back in, he's still scoring in his 50s!!
      stuey
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      Re: Life without Luis
      Reply #15: Jul 06, 2014 12:19:50 pm
      Get Rushie back in, he's still scoring in his 50s!!

      Hahahaha
      He'd only shine playing away mate.
      waltonl4
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      Re: Life without Luis
      Reply #16: Jul 06, 2014 12:20:26 pm
      I have been lucky to see some of the true Legends from Roger Hunt to Luis and they all come and they all go and after 122 years this club will do what it has always done adapt and conquer
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Life without Luis
      Reply #17: Jul 06, 2014 12:26:08 pm
      Hahahaha
      He'd only shine playing away mate.

      Hahahaha the quote "He's in his 50's but is fitter than me!" needs sticking on any new banner we make for our greatest ever striker.

      As for life without Luis, we'll get over him, Danny might get a boost from being the main man now and I would love to see Rickie bang the winner on the opening day.
      waltonl4
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      Re: Life without Luis
      Reply #18: Jul 06, 2014 12:30:33 pm
      Hahahaha the quote "He's in his 50's but is fitter than me!" needs sticking on any new banner we make for our greatest ever striker.

      As for life without Luis, we'll get over him, Danny might get a boost from being the main man now and I would love to see Rickie bang the winner on the opening day.
      ~I think you are spot on about Danny he wants to be the main man and I think he will be more than capable of scoring 25 plus goals next season
      Scottbot
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      Re: Life without Luis
      Reply #19: Jul 06, 2014 02:54:45 pm
      If we go one up top and it is Sturridge then we're going to need players who happily and willingly run in behind because Danny likes to drop deep. If he does that and nobody moves into that space then we're gonna have no threat. At least with Suarez in the side, there would always be somebody in the box - whether Luis or Danny.

      Definitely but I would hope we still maintain a high degree of fluidity as was the case last season. Having a number who drops off makes us a tough team to mark so long as Hendo is bursting beyond the front (as he likes to) and Raheem, Lallana and Coutinho will all show willing to get in and around the box. Even Lambert likes to drift deep and make things happen from other areas so the same will apply when he is in the side.
      alex1995
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      Re: Life without Luis
      Reply #20: Jul 06, 2014 04:53:51 pm
      We'll need 2 really good players to replace Suarez : Sanchez and Konoplyanka/Shaquiri/Markovic.
       
      Then we'll have something like this ;
                 Sturridge
      Sanchez           New player
              Hendo     Can/Coutinho/Sterling
                       Gerrard
      LFC Karl
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      Re: Life without Luis
      Reply #21: Jul 06, 2014 08:47:12 pm
      Great opening post mate. I agree with a lot and the more I think of it the more comfortable I become without Luis (would still prefer we tell him to cop on and barca to do one). However, everyone keeps saying he is only 1 player and we wont slip without him. I dont necessarily agree. Ask yourself this, would we win the league next year without him? Great players win titles. Would UTD of won the league without RVP 2013? No.

      We do need to replace him. Maybe not by an individual but by a cluster of talent or by a tactical change. Stating the obvious, but we can only play 11 players, the attacking 6 from last year minus suarez would not win us the league or get 2nd, in my opinion. We also wouldn't score 101 goals. However, we are in a position to do better than other teams who lose their best player. Take Spurs for instance, they flopped even with 100m of new highly regarded talent BUT they had no identity. We have, we also now have a solid base and the best Manager in the PL and can progress based on that. For instance Venger and Arsenal didn't fall behind without RVP or Fabergas. They had a solid base. They didn't progress either though and in my opinion, that is because they have bought poor and haven't changed their tactical approach to suit - a mistake I hope we don't make. Could Barca survive without Messi, yes they could as they have a quality base of a squad. Would they replace him, not by 1 player but they would try get the best possible player or players as a replacement.

      I would love to see us go for an out n out striker like Tevez as a replacement for 1 year and then he can complain about the country and go F**k off.
      FL Red
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      Re: Life without Luis
      Reply #22: Jul 06, 2014 11:48:53 pm
      Hopefully the team will be even more the focus and they will learn even more to play together and lean on each other without Suarez as their "savior". I have a feeling Sturridge will play with quite a chip on his shoulder now that Luis is gone.

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