Can we avoid doing a Tottenham?

Firstly, apologies to anyone this may offend. I tend not to conform to that mindset of "if Brendan wants him then I hope he gets him for whatever price". That unfortunately is not me. I have seen enough in football to understand that even the best of managers can get things terribly wrong. What I want to discuss is our current transfer signings and targets. If there is any truth to these rumoured targets, then it looks like we've got a bucket load to spend.

Last summer, Tottenham offloaded Gareth Bale for £85m or thereabouts. Everyone assumed thereafter that Tottenham would be able to strengthen other areas of the team, thus improve overall. The summer signings they made appeared pretty decent to me at the time:

Chadli (£7m), Chirchires (£8m), Capoue (£9m), Eriksen (£12m), Paulinho (17m), Soldado (£26m), Lamela (£26m). That is approximately £105m. To me, that looks like a decent bunch of players signed up. So where did it all go wrong for Spurs? And if the reports are anything to go by, then why are we not in danger of repeating their mistake by signing a load of first team players? The pattern is there - sell one of the best players in the world for an astronomical fee, and then spend those funds on a number of different players.

Assuming our key targets are signed: Lallana (£23m), Can (£10m), Lambert (£5m), Markovic (£20m), Lovren (£20m), Origi (£10m), LB (£15-20m). That is nearly £105-110m spent there. I don't mean to put a downer on anything. For all we know, these players could prove to be excellent signings. I truly hope they are, but the pressure on Brendan to succeed (given he does spend in excess of £100m) will be incredible.

I was thinking about this the other night. On one hand losing Luis will be hard but it's not like BR didn't see it coming and I think that at times we changed our style of play to accommodate both strikers.

The flip side to this is that we need a bigger squad to compete this year and so far it looks as if we are buying quality players to push our starting XI.

The biggest difference is that Spurs were chasing the top 4 something we have already achieved.

We're in the Champions League.

We have a better manager, whose play-style can adapt to fit almost anybody. Despite that, he's buying players for how we play now. Spurs were just buying players for the sake of buying players and pleasing the fans.

Players want to join us - not just "good" players, but "very good" players with a multitude of other options.

Yes, we can avoid "doing a Tottenham".

I think we're in a much more stable situation than Spurs were last summer.  Brendan has been in situ for 2 seasons compared to AVB's 1 and we seem to be targeting players who give us better options off the bench, will strengthen the starting 11 and give us more goal threats from midfield.  We have an identity to our methods and systems and although Brendan may tweak things without Luis those methods and systems won't change.

Spurs on the other hand bought players who were available regardless of how or if they would fit in, tried to play them all at once and as a result it was a mess which resulted in AVB getting sacked 3 months into the season.

It's easy to look at what happened there with the fear that we could suffer the same fate but if you look at the facts and figures they didn't do that badly.  They finished on just 3 points less than the previous season and when you consider all the upheaval they went through that's not exactly a disaster.

Firstly, apologies to anyone this may offend. I tend not to conform to that mindset of "if Brendan wants him then I hope he gets him for whatever price". That unfortunately is not me. I have seen enough in football to understand that even the best of managers can get things terribly wrong.

Right, okay... if you don't "conform to the mindset" that Brendan should get the players he wants: what is your mindset C_R: Brendan shouldn't get the players he wants? 

Maybe you believe someone else should pick the players for him? Which would be strange given that: a) that is exactly what Spurs/Levy did and b) you have acknowledged that it's Brendan who's "under pressure to succeed" and no-one else.

So where did it all go wrong for Spurs?... why are we not in danger of repeating their mistake by signing a load of first team players?

By all accounts a number of the players Spurs signed were not sanctioned by AVB.

Perhaps, if he had been able to sign the players he wanted, things would have been different but who knows. After all, as you acknowledge, you "have seen enough in football to understand that even the best of managers can get things terribly wrong".

However Brendan being able to sign the players, he wants, does two things 1: He doesn't have to shoe-horn someone else's idea of a player into his team and 2: he will have a 'head-start' by only signing players who conform to his ideas: ideas which are firmly in place after two seasons.

So there you have it... the fear you have of us 'doing a Spurs' will be mitigated by the very thing you "don't conform to". Weird or what? 

Depends on what the question is asking really.

Doing a Spurs?

Is that:
a) Spending all the money from the sale of Suarez
b) Spending all the money on some big name players
b) Spending all the money on players that the manager may not have wanted

I'd gladly see us spend all the money from the Suarez sale.
The comparison is rather lazy, although at least we wouldn't be "doing a United" ie
Not spending the Ronaldo money straight away.

I'd gladly see us spend all the money on some talented young players.

Comes down to C then. Will they be the manager's signings.
In this case I think it's save to say Brendan has, so far, got the players he wanted.

So I don't think we'll do a Spurs, but the unknown is whether the players we sign
will fill the massive void that Suarez will leave behind. In that case we will need to
make two or three quality signings to do so. Needing 5 or 6 players to come in total.

Right, okay... if you don't "conform to the mindset" that Brendan should get the players he wants: what is your mindset C_R: Brendan shouldn't get the players he wants? 

Maybe you believe someone else should pick the players for him? Which would be strange given that: a) that is exactly what Spurs/Levy did and b) you have acknowledged that it's Brendan who's "under pressure to succeed" and no-one else.

By all accounts a number of the players Spurs signed were not sanctioned by AVB.

Perhaps, if he had been able to sign the players he wanted, things would have been different but who knows. After all, as you acknowledge, you "have seen enough in football to understand that even the best of managers can get things terribly wrong".

However Brendan being able to sign the players, he wants, does two things 1: He doesn't have to shoe-horn someone else's idea of a player into his team and 2: he will have a 'head-start' by only signing players who conform to his ideas: ideas which are firmly in place after two seasons.

So there you have it... the fear you have of us 'doing a Spurs' will be mitigated by the very thing you "don't conform to". Weird or what? 

Think you misinterpreted what I said. What I meant was that I have not always been satisfied with the signings Brendan has made, therefore I will question some of the signings he has/will make. I will not say "If Brendan wants him then I hope he signs him for whatever price", like a large group of posters do on this forum, simply because a lot of his previous signings have not been good enough. Have you been overly convinced by his previous signings? What evidence is there to say that this summer will be a success? There isn't, hence why I will continue to question his signings, and hence my previous statement. So let's not try to put words in my mouth.

If your answer is that AVB did not sanction his signings whereas Brendan did, then fine. Don't try and suggest that I want FSG to sanction our signings.

Next time, and for your sake only, I will highlight the key part of that sentence you clearly missed - "for whatever price."

It's a fair point to ask CR, considering obviously Spurs' plight after bringing in so many numbers to their first team.

I think any team can lose it's dynamic if an overhaul is pretty much undergone where signings are concerned. This is a challenge for Rodgers to obviously consider if so many changes to the first team are made. I don't know how he will address it, he may throw all his new signings into the first team from the off. Or he may drop them into the team on a 1 by 1, or 2 by 2 basis so as to not disturb the dynamic that's already in place. One thing which is pretty much guaranteed is, the dynamic of Suarez is out of the team, and Rodgers will have to counter this eventually by the number and quality factor. I have confidence in him getting this right but in the short term I can realistically envisage that some of our results may go south in the event of "doing a Tottenham". If they don't even better.

It's a fair point to ask CR, considering obviously Spurs' plight after bringing in so many numbers to their first team.

I think any team can lose it's dynamic if an overhaul is pretty much undergone where signings are concerned. This is a challenge for Rodgers to obviously consider if so many changes to the first team are made. I don't know how he will address it, he may throw all his new signings into the first team from the off. Or he may drop them into the team on a 1 by 1, or 2 by 2 basis so as to not disturb the dynamic that's already in place. One thing which is pretty much guaranteed is, the dynamic of Suarez is out of the team, and Rodgers will have to counter this eventually by the number and quality factor. I have confidence in him getting this right but in the short term I can realistically envisage that some of our results may go south in the event of "doing a Tottenham". If they don't even better.

Which is what I am getting at. To be fair, I was actually unaware that AVB didn't sanction his targets. Of course, it would have helped if he did, and of course I want Brendan to get his targets, I just feel with so many players coming in at once, regardless of whether they are the right signings, they will have to be given time to settle into the club. In a way you could question whether Spurs would have improved vastly, even if AVB did sanction his own transfers. Eight new first team players is a lot, and there will always be a step back when the volume of transfers is that high. I can remember Wenger correctly predicting Tottenhams struggles:

‘In our job, there is a technical risk when you buy more than three players as you unbalance a bit the stability of your squad.
'It’s always difficult when you bring so many players in to predict how well they’ll do. You have to find a way to integrate.’

And I feel that one of the reasons why we done so well last season was because BR had the chance to work with nearly the same team as the season before. This gave them the chance to understand one another's game better.

Admittedly, Can, Origi and Lambert will not be starting XI's to start with, so hopefully the balance and stability will remain strong.

So who here works for the metro?

http://metro.co.uk/2014/07/07/why-liverpool-wont-do-a-tottenham-after-luis-suarez-sale-4789553/?

Think you misinterpreted what I said.

Did I mate?

Here's what you said C_R: "I tend not to conform to that mindset of "if Brendan wants him then I hope he gets him for whatever price".

So let's not try to put words in my mouth.

I didn't put any words into your mouth C_R - you 'said' them (see above) not me.

You asked a sensible question: Can we avoid doing a Tottenham? I told you I thought we could and why I thought we could. That's all.
 

Don't try and suggest that I want FSG to sanction our signings.

Did I? I'll check back and apologise if I did; I certainly didn't mean to mate.

You said you don't "conform to the mindset" that Brendan should get the players he wants so I asked: what mindset do you conform to? It wasn't a trick question.

I see you reserve the right to question his signings - I have no problem with that That's because you haven't been convinced by his previous signings - again no problem with that.

Anyhows... back to your topic - My answer is/was that; AVB did not sanction his signings whereas Brendan will and also Brendan will have a 'head-start' by having (after two seasons) a great idea of who he wants, for how he wants to play... AVB had neither. I hope this helps alleviate your fears C_R.

 

Eight new first team players is a lot, and there will always be a step back when the volume of transfers is that high.

And that was their problem mate, they tried to play/integrate them all at the same time.  Was this to appease Levy and their DoF for buying them, or the fans who expected to see them feature after spending so much money?

We also brought in 8 players last summer but only one of them featured in every league game.  Some of them were never intended to get a lot of playing time due to their age and inexperience, some were loans to make up for not signing our proper targets, other bought as short term cover others as more long term replacements.

We'll quite possibly bring in even more players this summer but I'll be very surprised if more than 2 or 3 new faces are on the pitch at kick off for the first game of the season.

Three points worse off with a team that's learning to play together? As long as we don't have the knee-jerk managerial sacking, it'll certainly be not what I'm hoping for, neither would it be the end of the world.

Given that of all the players signed by us so far, only Lallana is likely to be a first team player, there's not much balance being upset. The bigger question is whether we sign a top class proven goal scorer or take a punt on Sturridge stepping in to that role and hoping beyond hope that he doesn't get a serious injury?

Yes

Given that of all the players signed by us so far, only Lallana is likely to be a first team player, there's not much balance being upset. The bigger question is whether we sign a top class proven goal scorer or take a punt on Sturridge stepping in to that role and hoping beyond hope that he doesn't get a serious injury?

I'd say all of them will be 1st team players.  They may not be regular starters but they'll all play their part during the course of the season. 

Tottenham came with Paulinho and Soldado, but both of them  didn't do much. Paulinho started well, but sustained an injury and never played well again and is a reserve for Brazil right now. And Soldado was a huge disappointment.

I don't see Liverpool heading to that direction. I feel that, right now, we have a more ambitious set of mind, altough the lack of a world class player seems to be letteing everyone here down, altough I think that we didn't miss the top players last season. We missed the bench. Players that could come out of the bench and  help when the startes couldn't deliver.

I'd say all of them will be 1st team players.  They may not be regular starters but they'll all play their part during the course of the season.

By that definition, the entire squad are first team players. For me, when I refer to a first team player, I mean someone who starts as a matter of course and is occasionally rested, not someone who plays occasionally when someone else is being rested. The majority of players Spurs bought where regular starters for at least the first half of the season and that's not something I envisage happening at Liverpool given the type of players we've bought.

Tottenham came with Paulinho and Soldado, but both of them  didn't do much. Paulinho started well, but sustained an injury and never played well again and is a reserve for Brazil right now. And Soldado was a huge disappointment.

I don't see Liverpool heading to that direction. I feel that, right now, we have a more ambitious set of mind, altough the lack of a world class player seems to be letteing everyone here down, altough I think that we didn't miss the top players last season. We missed the bench. Players that could come out of the bench and  help when the startes couldn't deliver.

Let's keep some perspective and be honest in that we had less competition for a top four finish last season, with an under performing Spurs and a United collapse. Competition for a top four place will be much tougher this season. I don't expect us to be a team full of galaticos but neither can we cannot put our faith in a 32 year old Lambert never mind Borini and Aspas as our only alternatives to Sturridge.

Credible opening post CR, thought the same myself into regards of quantity over quality.

But looking at it in detail it seems, we have to have a balance of both which it seems we do, the signings we have made and are likely  to boost the quality in our first 11 to an extent and to our squad to a stronger extent.

We have to remember we have champions league football now which we didn't have for the last couple of seasons, so we cannot underestimate the toll it will take on our players, we have to be prepared for the fatigue and drop in form of certain players, and by buying as many players as we have we can counter such an issue.

Unlike Tottenham we merely need a tweak or two to our starting 11 to make us league champions in my eyes, therefore a top player or two would be enough for the starting 11 but to be league champions and have a good run in the other competitions our squad needs to be strong in depth and quality which i think is what we are seeing.

However i have a feeling that we have signed so many player now and look too, so that we can offload a couple players by the end of the window too, so the vast amount of signings we have made and will make may not seem as high by the end of the window.

Don't feel like we had less competition last season. The same could be said about the other champions on previous seasons, since we were not competition. The amount of points we made would be enough to finish in the same second place in previous seasosn.

And, remember that we were fighting teams that spent much more than us. City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester and even Tottenham spent tons of money on their rosters for this season.

By that definition, the entire squad are first team players. For me, when I refer to a first team player, I mean someone who starts as a matter of course and is occasionally rested, not someone who plays occasionally when someone else is being rested. The majority of players Spurs bought where regular starters for at least the first half of the season and that's not something I envisage happening at Liverpool given the type of players we've bought.

Ah ok, my mistake.

Don't feel like we had less competition last season. The same could be said about the other champions on previous seasons, since we were not competition. The amount of points we made would be enough to finish in the same second place in previous seasosn.

And, remember that we were fighting teams that spent much more than us. City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester and even Tottenham spent tons of money on their rosters for this season.

What you spend is not as important as how you perform and there can be no argument in that neither United nor Spurs performed to the same level as they have in previous seasons. I'm not saying that we were lucky to finish 2nd because we finished there on merit, nonetheless, competition was not as tough. Had United and Spurs performed as they had in recent seasons, perhaps Arsenal would have finished outside the top 4.

I know that you are not saying that the money talks, but I added it up to show how tough it was for us, to compete with Chelsea and City, two of the richest clubs in the world, capable of havin a stelar roster. We competed against them, like United competed with City a year ago.

In fact, this season was one of the most competitive season lately. The difference between City and Arsenal(the fouth) was only 7 points. In 12/13, the difference stood in 16 points. In 2011/2012, stood in 20 points. Thats why I said that didn't lack competition just because United and Tottenham were s**tty.